Mass Shooting in Aurora, Colorado, 7/20/2012

[Jenci]

In 1996 Thomas Hamilton walked into a primary school in Dunblane in Scotland and shot and killed 16 children and their teacher.

The following year the UK government was able to bring in a law banning handguns.


Of course the msm reported a disturbed individual who carried out a crazed attack but for those who have been down the rabbit hole of investigation of this case may find that he was a manchurian candidate with dots connecting to scottish freemasons, paedophilia, child abuse, top level goverment ministers/Nato, internet child porn, whitewashed inquiry and government which felt it necessary to raise the time limit on the public having access to the files from 30 years to 100 years.

[Vince]

Hi

This whole affair strongly reminds me of the Merah case that just happened in France last march :

http://www.infowars.com/french-terro...nd-false-flag/

http://counterpsyops.com/tag/mohamed-merah/

Where a very young man, with no money, no military training and obvious contacts with the leader of the French Secret Services, starts first to travel in nearly 10 different countries in the Middle-East, then carry out 2 years later (while being under survey by Secret Services, go figure...) a number of killing in total cold blood in southern France, using weapons he couldn't possibly afford to buy (or even to get on the black market, like a colt 1911 and a Brit Sten machine gun).
All of this of course to be blamed on the great "Evil" of islam radicalism.
The whole affair became very smelly as soon as the siege of Merah's'loft started, a disgusting show which lasted for more than 24 hours, with medias everywhere filming the scene like it was Bruce Willis last blockbuster movie.
Not to forget that some witnesses of the murders of Merah (7 in all, including 3 children, on 3 different places around or in the town of Toulouse) described a man with a scar on his face, blue eyes, and a fatter body than Merah's'own.

[danceblackcatdance]

Customer At Internet Cafe Shoots 2 Robbers 13/7/2012

If everyone had weapons, would criminals think twice?

Where were the cops when this went down...

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=wZNC2VwyaPU

[jackovesk]

Posted by lookbeyond (here)
Interesting- yet we do not experience regular massacres

How 'Ironic', all it took was just one Govt. 'False Flag' Massacre down in Tasmania...

The Port Arthur massacre of 28 April 1996 was a killing spree in which 35 people were killed and 23 wounded by this bloke Martin Bryant Acting (They Say) alone and Shazam 'NO MORE GUNS'...just how the Govt. had planned it...

Martin Bryant (born 7 May 1967) is an Australian spree killer who was convicted of murdering 35 people and injuring 21 others in the Port Arthur massacre, a shooting spree in Port Arthur, Tasmania, Australia, in 1996.[1] He is currently serving 35 life sentences plus 1,035 years without parole in the psychiatric wing of Risdon Prison in Hobart, Tasmania.[2] His rampage ranks among the deadliest of the 20th century.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Bryant

Soon you are going to 'Wish' you had some form of defence for your family's protection...

[lookbeyond]

I feel compelled to point out something within my posts that has been obviously missed- i believe i said "regular" massacres/atrocities experienced due to easier access to guns-jackovesc,it is unfortunate when some deliberately? misread others posts and or go out of their way to paint others opinions so negatively. All i did was support another who i happened to agree with and i feel this has become a free for all- shame on you those concerned-at least TargeT PM d me to say he did not mean to offend- the rest of you have just jumped on the bandwagon,i am disappointed with Avalon and will be leaving you to it,whatever it is you do

lookbeyond

[Tarka the Duck]

Posted by D-DAY (here)


Take Switzerland as an example...

IN SWITZERLAND THEY ISSUE EVERY HOUSEHOLD WITH A GUN!

SWITZERLAND'S GOVERNMENT TRAINS EVERY ADULT THEY ISSUE A RIFLE TO.

SWITZERLAND HAS THE LOWEST GUN RELATED CRIME RATE OF ANY CIVILIZED COUNTRY IN THE WORLD!!!

To use Switzerland as proof that there is no link between gun ownership and gun crime is not as simple as it is being portrayed here. This issue is mindblowingly complex, with so many variants.


In Switzerland, there is national service and men undergo regular military training every year instead of having a full time army.
Switzerland is one of the world's richest countries, but has remained relatively isolated.
It has none of the social problems associated with gun crime seen in other industrialised countries like drugs or urban deprivation.
Despite the lack of rigid gun laws, firearms are strictly connected to a sense of collective responsibility.
The Swiss value obedience, and self-police, to the point where pedestrians refuse to cross on a red light, even if the road is clear. Their mass transport system is financed by voluntary contributions.
From an early age Swiss men and women associate weaponry with being called to defend their country and their government.
It is a very strong patriachal society with a high percentage of traditional family where the citizens (particularly women and children) have much less freedom. The individual is less important than the greater society.

As the lawyer, historian and philosopher Stephen Halbrook wrote in his book about Swiss armed neutrality:

The bottom line is one of attitude. Populations with training in civic virtue, though armed, generally do not experience sensational massacres or high crime rates. To use Switzerland as proof that there is no link between gun ownership and gun crime is not as simple as it is being portrayed here. This issue is mindblowingly complex, with so many variants.

For example:
In Switzerland, there is national service and men undergo regular military training every year instead of having a full time army.
Switzerland is one of the world's richest countries, but has remained relatively isolated.
It has none of the social problems associated with gun crime seen in other industrialised countries like drugs or urban deprivation.
Despite the lack of rigid gun laws, firearms are strictly connected to a sense of collective responsibility.
The Swiss value obedience, and self-police, to the point where pedestrians refuse to cross on a red light, even if the road is clear. Their mass transport system is financed by voluntary contributions.
From an early age Swiss men and women associate weaponry with being called todefend their country and their government.
It is a very strong patriarchal society with a high percentage of traditional family where the citizens (particularly women and children) have less freedom than in the US. The individual is less important than the greater society.

As the lawyer, historian and philosopher Stephen Halbrook wrote in his book about Swiss armed neutrality:

The bottom line is one of attitude. Populations with training in civic virtue, though armed, generally do not experience sensational massacres or high crime rates. Switzerland fits this mould.
But the United States does not. As H. Rap Brown declared in the 1960s, "Violence is as American as apple pie."


Sorry, I've gone on a bit...

[Rozzy]

Gun bans do one thing very well, they make sure it is the law abiding citizen that does not have one, a concealed carry permit holder is very well trained and an asset where ever they happen to be at any given time. A person deserves the right to at least have the chance to protect themselves, this idea we should all be at the mercy of evil violent people is ludicrous. Gun bans do not get rid of the bad guys whether they be government or private individuals. No hand guns allowed in Canada, right? If you are a law abiding citizen that is true, but you can still buy any make or model you want in short order right across the country. Thousands upon thousands of rapes, murder and mayhem of all kinds happen every year in Canada leaving behind the results of these heinous acts, all the while we are under very tight gun restrictions. I do not believe making it safe for the perpetrators is a good or viable answer to making the streets safer.

[jackovesk]

Posted by lookbeyond (here)
I feel compelled to point out something within my posts that has been obviously missed- i believe i said "regular" massacres/atrocities experienced due to easier access to guns-jackovesc,it is unfortunate when some deliberately? misread others posts and or go out of their way to paint others opinions so negatively. All i did was support another who i happened to agree with and i feel this has become a free for all- shame on you those concerned-at least TargeT PM d me to say he did not mean to offend- the rest of you have just jumped on the bandwagon,i am disappointed with Avalon and will be leaving you to it,whatever it is you do

lookbeyond

Don't leave on my account,

I wasn't have a Dig at you at all...

I was merely trying to convey the point that 'Because of our Govts. False Flag Tasmanian Massacre, the entire Country was basically unarmed in an instant after all the Gun buyback and the subsequent laws & penalties enforced on non-registered firearms...

...and it was your statement that reminded me of the event...

Interesting- yet we do not experience regular massacres

I believe in anyone's rights to bare arms, and because of the Port Arthur False Flag that choice was instantly taken away from us...

So please don't leave on my account because you misunderstood where I was coming from...

I don't believe I have to apologize for a misunderstanding or do I..?

Rgs,

Jack

[NancyV]

Posted by Ellisa (here)
Too many guns--- too easy to buy---too easy to use to kill as a protest.

This guy didn't just have one handgun, he had piles of a variety of them. He also had got hold of teargas of some sort, as well as a gas mask. This would have made for a very frightening situation for all in the cinema. Luckily there seems to have been no 'hero' attempting to shoot the gunman-- just imagine the panic that would cause in a room full of acrid smoke and random bullets from the 'rescuer's' high powered weapon spraying the room!

Perhaps as well as making guns harder to acquire someone could seriously look at the impression modern entertainment has on regular people, not to mention those already depressed, uncertain and disturbed,... and stop making it.

I have just seen the hideous message on the lawn of that neat and pretty house!!!! It's horrific!!!! Would you want to live near him/her?

I thought it was a pretty fantastically funny sign! In fact, I just told my husband about it and we both laughed a lot. If I had a neighbor who was rabidly and vocally anti gun I would love to have a sign like that.....except I prefer to be more subtle in everything.

As far as there being "too many guns--- too easy to buy---too easy to use to kill as a protest." I would say that not ENOUGH people have and know how to use guns. Guns are getting too difficult to buy and guns don't kill...PEOPLE KILL. If someone wants to kill a lot of people and guns aren't available, they'll find another way to do it. They sure found ways to kill people for centuries long before guns were invented.

[jackovesk]

Mum had gut instinct killer at screening of new Batman film was her son

July 22, 2012
12:00AM

WHEN she heard the news of a massacre at a cinema in Colorado, gut instinct told Arlene Holmes her son was responsible for the carnage.

Mrs Holmes, who lives in a smart white house in an upmarket suburb in sunny San Diego with husband Robert, won't yet say how she knew, only that a mother's intuition told her.

Her son, James Holmes, 24, is accused of one of the biggest mass shootings in American history.


Accused mass killer James Holmes was described as a good son by mother Arlene

"You have the right person," she told American television network ABC.

"I need to call the police ... I need to fly out to Colorado."

By early yesterday Robert Holmes was heading to Aurora - the quaint city in Colorado where his son only a month earlier had been a medical student completing a doctorate in neuroscience.

Arlene Holmes was left home alone, refusing to answer questions. Perhaps the middle-class mother was contemplating how the grandson of a decorated World War II veteran, the boy she described to neighbours as "a good son", could have become a mass murderer.

James Holmes grew up in a loving family with a sister who played the guitar and neighbours who exchanged Christmas presents.

Christine Mai, who with her parents had lived next door to the family for 15 years, said she shared hot apple cider with Holmes last Christmas and that "he seemed like a nice guy", although she doesn't recall him socialising with friends or having a girlfriend.


Tom Sullivan searches for his son Alex, who was later confirmed dead. Picture: AP Source: Herald Sun .

She said Holmes had taken a part-time job at McDonald's to help support himself through school.

"I felt bad for him because he studied so hard," Ms Mai told the Denver Post yesterday. "My brother said he looked kind of down, he seemed depressed."

Ms Mai's father, Tom, said Holmes as a teenager was a normal boy who "cut the grass and cleaned the car", while other neighbours spoke of a quiet, reserved and respectful youth who was very bright.

But while he was seen as "easygoing" to neighbours, classmates described an anti-social recluse who barely had any social life and would spend hours indoors playing the video game Guitar Hero after dropping out of university.

It was claimed police were investigating a sex-cruising website that Holmes may have set up.

The page features a man with crudely dyed red hair who looks like Holmes.



It says he is looking for "casual sex" or a "fling" and asks chillingly, "Will you visit me in prison?"

School acquaintances called him a studious recluse with few close friends, an introvert who was fast-tracked through high school.


Emma Goos, who was in the cinema, hugs mother Judy


The Century 16 movie theatre in Aurora, Colorado, where 12 people were killed during a screening of the new Batman movie.

Always a high achiever and heavily involved in church, Holmes won a scholarship to the University of California, where he topped the class while doing an honours degree in neuroscience.

University of California chancellor Timothy White said Holmes distinguished himself academically.

"Academically, he was the top of the top," he said.

Last month things changed. Arlene Holmes confided in a neighbour that her son was frustrated because he couldn't get a job and, for the first time, he was struggling academically.

While he had a handful of friends in high school, at university Holmes appeared to have none. Classmates considered him aloof, even a little strange.

Holmes was a bright boy who delighted in cross-country running and had never been in trouble with the law, other than a parking ticket.

His few friends, equally studious, thought him super smart, but even they remembered him as quiet, something of a loner.

Yesterday the director of The Dark Knight Rises, Christopher Nolan, cancelled the French premiere of the movie and said the killings had violated the "innocent" place he calls his home, the cinema.

Arlene and Robert Holmes released a statement saying: "Our hearts go out to those who were involved in this tragedy."

However, as yet the couple have offered no clues as to why their only son allegedly carried out the attack that claimed the lives of 12 people and injured 58.


Source: News Limited .

http://www.news.com.au/world/mum-had...-1226431678885

[Tarka the Duck]

I've learned such a lot about different viewpoints from reading this thread: although I spend a fair bit of time in the US every year, I have honestly never realised how very important the right to bear arms is to even the most average mainstream person there So thank you all for broadening my education!

Having grown up in a country which has some of the most stringent gun laws in the world, this subject is rarely discussed here (unless there has been an incident involving gun crime) as guns do not feature in the lives of minds of pretty well everyone in the UK. Guns just are not relevant here, and I would hazard a guess that the majority of the population would feel strongly that they want to keep it that way (even though they are creeping in to the country).

Last year, following the riots in the UK, we flew on an American airline and were chatting with the cabin crew who were horrified at what they had heard. Even though, at that point, no one had died as a result of the rioting, their unanimous opinion was that it wouldn't have happened if the police had been armed. They actually advocated spraying the rioters with bullets - "That would stop 'em!" To us, that was totally shocking.

Nancy - you said:

They sure found ways to kill people for centuries long before guns were invented.

Agreed. That's why I can't quite get my head around that idea that a gun will defend you against a government/militia bent on exerting their will.

[taurad]

another PhD drop out classic case...

wait,

hang on a sec...

that doesn't make much "common" sense...

but again, as Victor Hugo said:

common sense is NOT that common!

cheers

[Fred Steeves]

Posted by Tarka the Duck (here)

Agreed. That's why I can't quite get my head around that idea that a gun will defend you against a government/militia bent on exerting their will.

What I've noticed Kathie, is that police/military do NOT want a fair fight, ever. The military even brags about it. They are very domineering, brave and macho when in their cherished wolf packs, but one person with a good eye and a rifle will make them scatter like bowling pins. They will back off quickly, and wait until overwhelming odds are established. Recently in our area here for example, rather than using strategy to root, or wait out a barricaded and armed man out of a house, they simply bulldozed it to the ground with him in it. Very brave indeed.

This works quite well in rare and isolated cases, but if the people in general have had enough, and the so called "authorities" are getting hit with pot shots wherever they go, they would leave in a hurry. Of course they are then waiting for tanks, the Air Force or whatever, to come in and annihilite the entire area if need be, but then come the big magic question of how many troops will obey this order. Talk about high stakes poker...

Bottom line really, is it gives pause to a government who may be impatient in rolling deeper into their plans of total and complete domination. History shows they want the majority of the guns gone first, then they start making their big moves. Like I said before, the last thing in the world they want is a fight that is even close to fair.

[Cartomancer]

Here's a link to more information about the similarities between the shootings and the Batman graphic novel from 1986. That story includes a man shooting three in a movie theater. This article points out also that part of the plot or background of Batman includes his parents being murdered in a theater.

http://www.hlntv.com/article/2012/07...omic?hpt=hp_t2

[risveglio]

Posted by RMorgan (here)
This is really sad...I´m very sad about the victims and their families...They were just trying to have some fun...

I´m not for the prohibition of guns, but guns aren´t the solution to protect people from tyranny. Maybe it was a solution in the past but not anymore.

Governments know how to control people, with or without guns. The USA is a good example of it; people carry guns and are extremely controlled anyway.

In my opinion, the big problem with guns is that not all good guys carry guns, but all bad guys carry guns. This cinema atrocity is an example of it; How many people were carrying guns there? Probably just the shooter.

There´s another thing that bothers me...Why such events always happen in the USA? Every year something like this happens there. Sure, it happens in other countries as well, including my country, but it´s very rare.

I think it´s ok to freely sell and buy guns, but maybe a deeper psychological test should be required before a person can buy them.

Raf.

It was a gun free zone in a state that has very laxed gun laws. The argument could be made that if it was not a gun free zone, the shooter would have been taken down by a "good guy" before he did so much damage.

[jagman]

Police & FBI have detonated 3 devices so far and they have disabled one trip wire but they still cannot gain entry to Holmes apt. Bomb experts
on the scene say they have never seen this level of sophistication. This Just in: All trip wires have been diabled. (it took 2 days) I think I seen this
movie before "Bourne"

[NancyV]

Posted by Tarka the Duck (here)
Nancy - you said:

They sure found ways to kill people for centuries long before guns were invented.

Agreed. That's why I can't quite get my head around that idea that a gun will defend you against a government/militia bent on exerting their will.

One man who is good with a gun can defend against overwhelming odds and superior weaponry. Certainly not all the time, or maybe even often, but it's all about not giving up. Each of us has a lot more power than we think. Unfortunately we've been programmed from birth to believe that we are weak and ineffective. We've also been programmed that we should rely on others to protect us, like the police and military. I never accepted that programming.

In my case, I am married to a long time sniper. One good sniper can defend against many aggressors. I'm also fairly good with guns and have had them since my late teens when I married my first husband who was a Vietnam vet, as is my present husband. No matter how old we are, if we are ever attacked we will fight.

Guns are an equalizer. Before guns were invented you needed to be strong to fight. Women had little chance to defend themselves. Perhaps if guns were not invented women would still have less equality, who knows. A woman attacked by a strong man has little chance, but if she has a gun and is smart, she is more equal.

[Koyaanisqatsi]

Thats kinda like saying we should amputate your arm to fix a broken finger. The real issue here is not the guns themselves, but rather the set of conditions and circumstances that could propel someone to do something like this. Why is our society so sick??

[gripreaper]

Posted by Fred Steeves (here)

Posted by Tarka the Duck (here)

Agreed. That's why I can't quite get my head around that idea that a gun will defend you against a government/militia bent on exerting their will.

What I've noticed Kathie, is that police/military do NOT want a fair fight, ever. The military even brags about it. They are very domineering, brave and macho when in their cherished wolf packs, but one person with a good eye and a rifle will make them scatter like bowling pins. They will back off quickly, and wait until overwhelming odds are established. Recently in our area here for example, rather than using strategy to root, or wait out a barricaded and armed man out of a house, they simply bulldozed it to the ground with him in it. Very brave indeed.

This works quite well in rare and isolated cases, but if the people in general have had enough, and the so called "authorities" are getting hit with pot shots wherever they go, they would leave in a hurry. Of course they are then waiting for tanks, the Air Force or whatever, to come in and annihilate the entire area if need be, but then come the big magic question of how many troops will obey this order. Talk about high stakes poker...

Bottom line really, is it gives pause to a government who may be impatient in rolling deeper into their plans of total and complete domination. History shows they want the majority of the guns gone first, then they start making their big moves. Like I said before, the last thing in the world they want is a fight that is even close to fair.

I can understand how those who do not have the right to bear arms might feel about it, but lets put it into perspective. The United States was one of the last bastions of freedom, where people could brave the oceans and go to a new continent to escape tyranny. There is no place left to go anymore to escape tyranny. This is the last stand against tyranny

Why do you think the UN treaty on small arms is up for a global vote in two weeks? Because the elite want to disarm America, as the last bastion standing against global tyranny before they make their final move. the Colorado incident is the precursor.

In the last four years, gun and ammunition sales have skyrocketed in America, by the average law abiding citizens, just good regular folks. There has been more guns and ammo purchased in the last four years than in all of Americas previous 200 year history combined. If you don't think that a nation heavily armed, to the tune of 80 million households out of approximately 100 million households sends a strong message, think again. Just the hunters alone average about 80,000 per state. This is huge and unprecedented.

Like I said in an earlier post, sure the elite could outgun the people with their sophisticated toys, but they don't want to go for it until they disarm us. I'm glad that most Americans WILL NEVER give up their guns, as they do realize it is the ONLY thing standing between freedom and slavery and the full implementation of tyranny.

I don't think the elite want to do a beta test on what 300 million pissed off and armed people would be like against a couple hundred thousand psychopaths who think they own and control everything. There is no precedent for how that would turn out. The closest beta test we have was Hurricane Katrina. They took those poor peoples guns away, herded them into their sports dome, and then starved them. All of America was watching.

We did not like what we saw.

[lizfrench]

Hi, I am a new member, thank you for having me. The information here at Avalon is very useful and pertinent. To add a two cents regarding the Colorado "locality". There is another important happening (if you will) 250 miles or so from Denver in Pagosa Springs; it will be the Abicor Center, where, according to Mark Kimmel and others, will be where star civilizations and celestials will come and go to interact with humans in the near future, sort of a training center to help us raise our vibrational frequencies so that we can interact with others in the universe. It does seem that the Coloradao area denotes a metaphysical or psychic threshold somewhat like areas in England.