Overpopulation-Dr. Albert A. Bartlett

[trenairio]

Posted by therealslimady (here)
Please check out this article folks, it may put a slightly diff slant on this thread.
from 2 billion to 7 in 60 odd years does sound crazy.
I too used to worry about there being too many people, I guess I believed all i heard in all these docu's and TV,
on tv! it must be true?

but then i heard you could fit the world population in Texas and there'd be 10m between every man, woman and child.
of course I didnt believe it, so as best i could i worked it out and it's spot on, try it out see for yourself.
it was a while ago now and can't rem exactly how i did it, but when I've got 10min to spare I'll try to rem.

then i heard that in places like china, who have a fair few people, are gonna have big prob's because
most chinese are now male due to the 1 child policy.

and firtility is also taking a dive, in both sexes.

anyway check it out and see what the other side says, then make ur mind up.

http://overpopulationisamyth.com/

http://pop.org/projects/debunk-overpopulation-myth

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environmen...my-good-planet

What Dr. Bartlett and MIT's report disucuss isn't land area, but scarce resources. Scarcity can be abolished, but energy companies don't want us to have free energy. According to the data, the current energy paradigm won't sustain us much longer.

[Marsila]

Thanks to the OP for this topic, and i must say i used to think what a lot of people here are saying before, but not anymore.

Firstly this is source's world not ours, and whatever that energy is, it isn't stupid for sure...over crowding?
Secondly that their are scarce resources is a myth,which they plant in our heads (middle class people) so that we always limit our thinking, and so cant reach our true potential....this goes on so many levels. I quote from this article here on the world food program website:

Myth 1: There isn’t enough food to feed the world.
Reality: There is enough food in the world today for everyone to have the nourishment necessary for a healthy and productive life. There is, however, a need to be more efficient, sustainable, and fair in how we grow and distribute food. This means a) supporting small-scale farmers and b) making sure that food 'safety nets' are in place to protect the most vulnerable people from hunger.

moving on the psychos that be and us the sheep... are the one's that let things go so far (u can't always blame it on the other side...we to need to get the proper facts to stop the damage as soon as possible) a lot of fertile lands are no longer fertile because of this obsession with over producing some crops in the wrongest of ways. check this article about the Midwest drought in the US. Here again i quote part of it, but it is short anyway and a good read.

This picture is askew, tilted toward the industrial machine, the non-food monopoly variety. And what about the drought? How are we to define all of this? And where goes the water? What of the rain that dives headlong into the bottom of the watershed, without the least effort to collect and distribute it where it falls? What of the fructifying rain? A one inch rain event on one acre of land produces 28,000 gallons. One inch. Even in a drought stricken year we certainly get over one inch of rain here in the Midwest. Thousands of acres of tillage, herbicides, pesticides, fungicides, diminishing seed stock, depleted soils, 800 horsepower machines tearing it up, squashing it down. Why in hell does it takes some big ass tractor to plant a bunch of itty bitty seeds? Bigger is better? More acreage, more acreage, more acreage! Out a sight, out a mind.

among other reasons is the nuclear waste buried in fertile land in Asia and Africa, and then one wonders how to plant in the desert. there is definitely a mismanagement of resources....and i don't think it is accidental.

I plant a few food plants, and i barely use water as it is out there the so many ways to save on water (and am not talking about window farming, as there are even better ways that don't use electricity at all and make sure no water is gone to waste)

However there is a problem with the lower classes having way too many children, more than the parents can support.
and this happens because the parents do it with the thought of 'this child will start working soon and get money to the household," so sadly in there minds more children more money.

laws against child labor mean nothing to them, and societies end up with a lot of uneducated people, without social tact, who probably view the middle classes without any goodwill, and are an easy instrument for tptb or tptw or whatever to destabilize any society as they are happy to create trouble for the more 'well off' people, even if they are from the same country...and they are "cheap and easy to buy"

Reaching those people is easier by giving them hope, so they understand they don't need a dozen children to survive, and that those children are a better asset when they are well educated, than to tell them they need to stop reproducing as there is too many of them.

The other problem is middle classes seem to be having less and less children, while teenagers from the lower classes or people without any concern for others or life itself, or how they are going to support it, seem to be having more and more children...again who planted that 'watch out what you are doing?' psyche in the middle classes, but not in anyone else.

I understand where people like Rmorgan are coming from to, as i have friends from the same state who were complaining that as kids, there was fish all over the rivers in that part of Brazil....now when they take their children, due to all the construction, there are no fish in the rivers anymore, and they have to import them from Chile, despite the rivers being right there. But construction companies do that on purpose as they get paid much more because of the cost of clearing trees and working along water structures, than they would if they simply went and built things where they don't need to knock things down, or cover seas or other water bodies. this happens all over the world, and is a bigger problem than the over population to be honest.

anyway this is a very complex subject, and there is no scarcity, the answers to it are already there, but it seems all the actions of those in control, are making scarcity a bigger reality than it had been in the past.

oh interesting fact, in the early twentieth century Japan, had a huge population, one of the hugest in their area of the world. Hence all the wars and trying to invade neighboring lands to create space for there people. Come the start of the twenty first century...and the same country has one of the most declining populations in the world. No one can predict anything, and life has a funny way of sorting itself out.

Again thanks for the OP for this subject and thanks everyone for there interesting words about it.
And i ask again if it isn't the middle classes that are targeted with such guilt tripping concepts as over population, rather than the lower classes doing all the 'production'?

[therealslimady]

here's another piece of this very complex puzzle, and another reason we are heading for a population crash.

http://www.informationliberation.com/?id=26130

[Maia Gabrial]

Sorry, not buying into it, folks. See, while we're all multiplying and being fruitful, we should also be growing more food, not letting what we do have be destroyed. Of course it makes sense that if our foods are being contaminated or destroyed there won't be enough to sustain life.
There's alot of land and oceans on this planet that is not being inhabited or utilized to grow food. All those geniuses can't find ways to support life, but they can find every unimaginable weapon to destroy it. TPTW have shown how unworthy they are to run this planet. Not only are they greedy, but they're malicious, too. I can't believe anyone would buy into this. Why are people with good sense and intelligence not pushing those geniuses into finding better solutions than depopulation? Third worlds are being intentionally starved to death. How long before it's the whole planet? What's sad is how readily people accept this deception and don't prove it wrong.
There are ALWAYS ways to solve problems. It's just that TPTW have an agenda to have it all for themselves and they'll kill everyone to do it....

[Rocky_Shorz]

right now is time for Congress to shut down Ethanol Production, kids are more important to feed than cars...

Over a year since I was told we need to build Vertical farms to feed everyone, and how many have the gazillionaires built?

2

[RMorgan]

The main problem is that overpopulation can´t be treated as an isolated problem.

Poor people from poor countries are the ones who have more children; this is a fact. These children are condemned to live in misery, which is a huge humanitarian problem.

However, middle class families from developed countries, despite having less children, consume around 50 times more than a poor family, which leads to a terrible resources/consumption problem. This is also a fact.

So, basically, one child from a middle class family in the USA, takes as much resources as 50 children from poor families in Africa.

Increasing consumerism of resources is the biggest problem that we must deal with first, than we must find a way to equally distribute all the resources for every person on this planet. Everyone has the right to live comfortably.

Overpopulation is not the real short/medium term issue. The real problem is finding a way to make people stop consuming so much. This is a priority.

If the world had a 20 billion indigenous population, who know how to live in balance with nature, it would be no problem.

Now, if the world had 20 billion people consuming like North-Americans, Japanese and Europeans, then in fact civilization would have come to an end much longer before achieving this 20 billion mark.

Right now, if the 7 billion people on Earth start consuming like people from most "first world" countries, we would need about 20 Earth like planets to supply us with the resources and another 10 Earth like planets just to dump the trash.

So, the solution to most problems of this planet is to dramatically diminish the consumption rate of first world countries and then sustainably distribute all resources to every person in the world, to finally achieve equality.

Tell me how easy it is to fix that? I´m sure that, with our current system, fixing the world is not possible. If the system doesn´t change, the human race is indeed faded to extinction. I have no doubt about that.

This is not a scam. In our current scenario and circumstances, an overcrowded world is fatal.

To summarize, here´s what we have to do now:

1- Change the system for a better one.
2- Dramatically reduce consumerism.
3- Equally distribute resources globally.

The world government wont change its own system, wont reduce consumerism, wont distribute resources equally...So we have a hell of a problem.

Raf.

[Marsila]

Posted by RMorgan (here)
The main problem is that overpopulation can´t be treated as an isolated problem.


1- Change the system for a better one.
2- Dramatically reduce consumerism.
3- Equally distribute resources globally.

The world government wont change its own system, wont reduce consumerism, wont distribute resources equally...So we have a hell of a problem.

Raf.

Dramatically reducing consumerism is the real key, and so beautifully put! It is like Uruguay's president Mujica said in the Rio summit, to paraphrase this "need to need stuff, we don't really need....is the problem." and whose creating these 'needy' feelings?

I don't know my best time in the last few years when working abroad was when i was living in a studio with at first nothing but a bed and day bed and desk...and later nothing but the day bed, and the desk, along with the built in closest.
there was something very liberating at not hoarding stuff, and making an excuse to go out to be with nature everyday. Not to mention applying Feng Shui became super easy! now where i am with proper furniture i can't get rid of the 'crowded' feel of the place....

I posted a video yesterday on the books and video section about Ecuadorian indigenous people and wondered what happened that one of them could so easily still say "i'd rather die and get killed defending nature, than let those oil companies destroy it without a fight" while we just 'watch' these things.


Rocky Shorz, it is better those gazillionaires don't get into vertical farming as they'd only do that to destroy it from within to try and 'prove' the solution isn't a solution. Might as well just save our money and do it our selves the second we get a chance to, specially that many of us here already do it in our homes.

but yes again excessive consumerism, is the real thing we should be dealing with. Thanks for the reminder!