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Thread: Hillary’s sneaky plan to get UN gun control implemented

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    Default Hillary’s sneaky plan to get UN gun control implemented


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    Default Re: Hillary’s sneaky plan to get UN gun control implemented

    Quote Posted by NewFounderHome (here)
    Can this be?

    http://www.dickmorris.com/hillarys-e...v-lunch-alert/
    What Dick Morris is saying here is that today, July 27, 2012, Hillary Clinton, the USA Secretary of State, will sign the Arms Trade Treaty (ATT), on behalf of President Obama, and that (the key point) this treaty will then become affective on the people of the USA until such time as the USA Senate (or the President) rejects it. This the opposite of what one might naively expect from reading the USA Constitution -- that international treaties would only take affect after being ratified by the Senate.

    This web site, Arms Trade Treaty: Media Need an Advanced Class on Treaties, spells it out, saying in part:
    Treaties 301: But once the President signs a treaty, and even before the Senate considers it, the U.S. holds itself bound to “refrain from acts which would defeat the object and purpose of [the] treaty.” This obligation lasts as long as the treaty is signed but not ratified. The obligation derives in part from the 1969 Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties. President Nixon signed the treaty in 1970, but it has not been ratified. Thus, the U.S.’s “object and purpose” obligation itself derives partly from an unratified treaty. But more broadly, the U.S. State Department “considers many of the provisions of the Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties to constitute customary international law,” and therefore the U.S. will generally act in a manner consistent with its terms.
    Dick Morris anticipates that the ATT will not be brought to a vote before the USA Senate (it would clearly lack the votes to pass if it was brought to vote.) Hence, the ATT will become and remain in affect, as of today, for the foreseeable future. Being a loyal Republic, Morris holds out the possibility that if elected President, Republican Mitt Romney would immediately reject the ATT. I'm not taking that bet ... don't trust either Obama or Romney.
    -- Formerly known as "ThePythonicCow", aka "Cow", "PCow", "TPC", "PC", "Mooster", ...

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    Default Re: Hillary’s sneaky plan to get UN gun control implemented

    I think this subject is very complex.

    Is an unarmed population less controllable than an highly armed population?

    Well, maybe yes; maybe no. It depends on several other variables.

    The US population is one of the most armed populations in the world. However, the US population is perhaps the most controlled population in the world.

    A gun is just a lifeless object. It doesn´t serve any purpose by itself. It´s purpose is created depending on the education of the person who uses it.

    Guns are useless if the minds of the persons who have them is already controlled.

    If revolution depended exclusively on people having guns, the US would have faced a popular revolution a long time ago.

    When you manage to properly educate and empower a population, revolution happens anyway, with or without guns.

    Do not get attached to the thought that guns will give you more safety against tyranny, because this is a very relative concept.

    Raf.

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    Default Re: Hillary’s sneaky plan to get UN gun control implemented

    One of the comments under this video on the source page:

    George Bush, Queen Elizabeth, and Vladimir Putin all 3 die and go to hell.

    While walking around and exploring the premises, they spy a red phone and ask what the phone is for.

    The devil tells them that it is for calling back to Earth.

    Putin asks to call Russia and talks for 5 minutes. When he has finished the devil informs him that the cost is 1 million dollars, so Putin writes him a check.

    Next Queen Elizabeth calls England and talks for 30 minutes. When she hangs up the devil informs her that the cost is 6 million dollars, so she writes him a check.

    Finally George Bush gets his turn and talks for 4 hours. When he finishes the devil informs him that the cost is $5.00.

    When Putin hears this he goes ballistic and asks the devil why Bush gets to call the USA so cheaply.

    The devil smiles and says, "Since Obama took over, the country has gone to hell, so it's a local call."

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    Default Re: Hillary’s sneaky plan to get UN gun control implemented

    This has been in the wings for a while and the PTB are keeping real quiet about it.
    If it's such a great idea one would think they would be telling everyone and then we could vote on it.
    I'd rather be a citizen than a subject...

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    Default Re: Hillary’s sneaky plan to get UN gun control implemented

    Guns = Citizens
    No Guns = Subjects

    Enough said.

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    Default Re: Hillary’s sneaky plan to get UN gun control implemented

    Quote Posted by foreverfan (here)
    Guns = Citizens
    No Guns = Subjects

    Enough said.
    This is 100% correct.. We've all heard the saying, "when the people fear they're government, there is tyranny.. When the government fears the people, there is freedom"

    If the guns are taken then the government has nothing what so ever to fear and can freely do as they please. If gun confiscation happens, you can bet there will very likely be a civil war cause alot of people will not let them take they're guns. A war/civil war would happen, UN will just bring in "peacekeeper" troops from other countries to do it, along with how ever many us troops that side with the government.

    My guess also is the government will declare insurrection on the people and this will cause some US troops to side with government also if played right.
    Last edited by pyriel; 28th July 2012 at 00:41.

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    Default Re: Hillary’s sneaky plan to get UN gun control implemented

    So why don't we hear more in the media or even protesting and more. I don't get it!
    It is like the US in general don't care or it is not important to the citizens of the US.

    Peace to all!

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    Default Re: Hillary’s sneaky plan to get UN gun control implemented

    Quote Posted by Paul (here)
    Quote Posted by NewFounderHome (here)
    Can this be?

    http://www.dickmorris.com/hillarys-e...v-lunch-alert/
    What Dick Morris is saying here is that today, July 27, 2012, Hillary Clinton, the USA Secretary of State, will sign the Arms Trade Treaty (ATT), on behalf of President Obama, and that (the key point) this treaty will then become affective on the people of the USA until such time as the USA Senate (or the President) rejects it. This the opposite of what one might naively expect from reading the USA Constitution -- that international treaties would only take affect after being ratified by the Senate.

    This web site, Arms Trade Treaty: Media Need an Advanced Class on Treaties, spells it out, saying in part:
    Treaties 301: But once the President signs a treaty, and even before the Senate considers it, the U.S. holds itself bound to “refrain from acts which would defeat the object and purpose of [the] treaty.” This obligation lasts as long as the treaty is signed but not ratified. The obligation derives in part from the 1969 Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties. President Nixon signed the treaty in 1970, but it has not been ratified. Thus, the U.S.’s “object and purpose” obligation itself derives partly from an unratified treaty. But more broadly, the U.S. State Department “considers many of the provisions of the Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties to constitute customary international law,” and therefore the U.S. will generally act in a manner consistent with its terms.
    Dick Morris anticipates that the ATT will not be brought to a vote before the USA Senate (it would clearly lack the votes to pass if it was brought to vote.) Hence, the ATT will become and remain in affect, as of today, for the foreseeable future. Being a loyal Republic, Morris holds out the possibility that if elected President, Republican Mitt Romney would immediately reject the ATT. I'm not taking that bet ... don't trust either Obama or Romney.
    "refraining from acts" doesn't mean acting.. the verbage imply s inaction

    so nothing will really happen or... ?


    I think nothing will happen.
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    Default Re: Hillary’s sneaky plan to get UN gun control implemented

    Did it pass or not today?

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    Default Re: Hillary’s sneaky plan to get UN gun control implemented

    Quote Posted by NewFounderHome (here)
    Did it pass or not today?
    From http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/28/wo...-approval.html :
    Negotiators at the United Nations failed to meet a Friday deadline to complete a new treaty aimed at regulating the estimated $60 billion global arms trade business, as major weapons exporting nations, including the United States, said more time was needed to finalize an agreement.

    The negotiators adjourned after having met for the past four weeks with the goal of completing an agreement that proponents said would have severely restricted the cross-border flow of weapons and ammunition that has helped to fuel armed conflicts and mass killings around the world. Approval by all 193 members of the United Nations was required
    ...
    In the final hours of negotiations, the United States, as well as Russia and China, all large weapons exporters, said more time was needed.

    “The White House walked away at a critical moment by failing to move this treaty to conclusion,” Oxfam America’s senior policy adviser, Scott Stedjan, said in a statement. “It is a tremendous loss for thousands of innocent civilians around the globe who die each year from armed violence fueled by the unregulated transfer of arms.”

    The conference chairman, Ambassador Roberto Garcia Moritán of Argentina, said that he was confident of achieving a treaty later this year.

    The Obama administration was under pressure to delay or walk away from an agreement. Fifty-one senators had urged the administration not to sign it in a letter sent Thursday. That letter sent an important signal of defeat because ratification requires 67 Senate votes.
    A small victory !
    -- Formerly known as "ThePythonicCow", aka "Cow", "PCow", "TPC", "PC", "Mooster", ...

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    Default Re: Hillary’s sneaky plan to get UN gun control implemented

    Quote Posted by Paul (here)
    A small victory !
    I can't imagine the military industrial complex (that is the U.S.) would allow such a wide, sweeping treaty to pass unhindered, we (the US) make TO MUCH money off arms trade for something like this (though generally it is not small arms...)
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    Default Re: Hillary’s sneaky plan to get UN gun control implemented

    Quote Posted by MR Mojo (here)
    This has been in the wings for a while and the PTB are keeping real quiet about it.
    If it's such a great idea one would think they would be telling everyone and then we could vote on it.
    I'd rather be a citizen than a subject...
    Dear Mr Mojo----I hate to have to inform you that even though you mite have been born in usa and think you are a citizen.........Sorry but the truth is you and I both are actually subjects of the british crown.........usa is just another colony owned by the crown, just like all the rest. If interested in the historical facts that prove this they can be found in this link along with a couple videos:http://www.apfn.org/apfn/bcolony.htm -Rob

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    Default Re: Hillary’s sneaky plan to get UN gun control implemented

    It is an Arms Trade Treaty and is about controlling international trade in arms. The treaty has nothing to do with taking guns away from Americans, but everything about stopping America, and some other major exporters, from selling huge amounts of arms (many billions worth every year from the USA alone) to all and sundry and thus supporting violent conflict all over the world (not to mention really poor countries buying arms while the general population lives in abject poverty).

    So please, before you start celebrating, find out what the treaty is really about, and then look at which countries are derailing the treaty and then compare that list with a list of countries who make the most money (many billions) from selling arms internationally.

    Have a look at statistics:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datab...-100-producers
    http://www.amnesty.org.au/armstrade/comments/28098/
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    Default Re: Hillary’s sneaky plan to get UN gun control implemented

    Quote “The White House walked away at a critical moment by failing to move this treaty to conclusion,” Oxfam America’s senior policy adviser, Scott Stedjan, said in a statement. “It is a tremendous loss for thousands of innocent civilians around the globe who die each year from armed violence fueled by the unregulated transfer of arms.”
    It seems to me that this story is being twisted by those who want to take away any means people have of defending themselves. Those poor innocent "civilians" that NATO killed is tragic because they may not have been able to defend themselves against all that weaponry. It's funny that they mentioned that these were civilians, don't you think? I'm sure that something as important as "protecting their families and countries" doesn't seem to be mentioned anywhere. How convenient that Lame Stream seems to only give one-sided stories all the time....They are accomplices.
    One thing's for sure, this shows how complicit the UN is and NATO is THEIR murderous thugs....

    I'd like to see the UN finally busted for the corrupted, deceitful organization that it is.
    UNITED NATIONS GET THE HELL OFF AMERICAN SOIL! GO HOME TREACHEROUS VIPERS!

    What does Hillary Clinton think she's doing? She knows she can't bypass Congress, but the bitch is trying it.... Just shows how much Obama doesn't do HIS job....THERE'S A JAIL CELL FOR YOU BOTH!

    I think Panetta was busted on his mistaken idea that the UN takes precedence over Congress, too. Everyone remember that recent Congressional investigation? I think he managed to piss off all decent Americans.
    Last edited by Maia Gabrial; 29th July 2012 at 22:13.

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    Default Re: Hillary’s sneaky plan to get UN gun control implemented

    Gun Control Amendment Restricting Magazine Size Slipped Into Cyber Security Bill



    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=zzPdYpyoqtQ


    Coming at us from every direction!

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    Default Re: Hillary’s sneaky plan to get UN gun control implemented

    Quote It seems to me that this story is being twisted by those who want to take away any means people have of defending themselves. Those poor innocent "civilians" that NATO killed is tragic because they may not have been able to defend themselves against all that weaponry. It's funny that they mentioned that these were civilians, don't you think? I'm sure that something as important as "protecting their families and countries" doesn't seem to be mentioned anywhere. How convenient that Lame Stream seems to only give one-sided stories all the time....They are accomplices.
    One thing's for sure, this shows how complicit the UN is and NATO is THEIR murderous thugs....
    This may be a very difficult idea for Americans to understand, but there are many people in the world who don't want to do harm to others in order to protect themselves, and thus do not want to have guns. I am one of those people.

    Personally I respect self-determination, so if Americans want to have guns then they are welcome to them and no one should stop Americans from producing and selling weapons of destruction for domestic use, but I completely support the UN's attempt to stop this enormous export of weapons of destruction to the rest of the world. I am not disheartened by the derailment of the treaty as at least people of the world are talking about the irresponsible and illegal proliferation of arms across the world (and how much nations such as the USA, UK, France profit from this), and I have hope that peace-loving countries of the world will form their own treaties and pursue this goal of living without guns and investing in human rights amongst themselves.
    sdv
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    Default Re: Hillary’s sneaky plan to get UN gun control implemented

    Quote Posted by foreverfan (here)
    Guns = Citizens
    No Guns = Subjects

    Enough said.
    Do you really believe that a simple gun makes one a real citizen?

    Wow...Then explain to me how the people from the USA, even having a lot of guns, are world-widely known to be guinea pigs of their own corporate government?

    I hear you mate, but things are much more complex than that.

    The simple act of having a gun means nothing by itself...It´s just like having a cool paper weight.

    Guns are useless if the big majority of people who have them don´t have a clue on how to use them to achieve the right purposes.

    I don´t know many things...I´m young and have a lot of things to learn, but right now I believe the price of real freedom is not that cheap.

    You can´t buy freedom in the gun shop.

    Revolution must happen firstly in the mind; the use of guns is not always necessary...Think about Gandhi.

    Our most powerful weapon is our mind, our consciousness and our intelligence.

    Guns don´t make weak minds stronger, they just make them considerably more dangerous.

    Raf.
    Last edited by RMorgan; 30th July 2012 at 16:18.

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    Default Re: Hillary’s sneaky plan to get UN gun control implemented

    Peaceful people are always targeted by predators because they're not even an obstacle in the way. Living in peace is something you have to protect, if it's a way of life you want. So, there has to be a deterrent to keep the predators away... It's even biblical about those who were lax in their own security, deserved what happened to them....

    I don't own a gun, but that doesn't mean I don't know how to build something that can be a good deterrent.... For instance, I was in a shelter in Hawaii and they wanted to take away my crocheting needle because it could be used as a weapon. I picked up a pencil and told them that IT was a more effective weapon. Their mouths dropped open. Needless to say, they let me keep my needle. The thing is ANYTHING can be a weapon..... Guns are needed to keep an out of control US corporation in line..... It's what they understand best.....

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    Default Re: Hillary’s sneaky plan to get UN gun control implemented

    Quote Posted by RMorgan (here)
    Guns don´t make weak minds stronger, they just make them considerably more dangerous.

    Raf.
    And give strong minds leverage, as a nearly constantly "armed" citizen of the United states I can say that you are speaking from a culture / experience that has little to no idea of what you speak of.

    Gun owners who don't know how to use them? this may be some small (VERY SMALL) percentage of people in my nation, you'll find in the US it is either a "gun culture" family or not... there is not much grey area here (unfortunately). This causes much confusion as there is a large (80 million plus) contingency of responsible, conservative & quiet lawful owners that are constantly compared to a few dozen "bad eggs" (which may or may not be real, for example the recent batman movie shooting..)

    I think this is a subject that will be very hard to grasp for someone as separated from the culture that we experience here in the US (the culture inquestion )
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