A mass shooting at the Sikh Temple in Oak Creek, Wisconsin

[TargeT]

Posted by Arrowwind (here)
Hmmm..... Sikhs have a strong military inclination hsitorically in India, although Sikhs here in the US have been very peaceful. I suspect they will be taking guns now to their meetings. In general I think Sikhs will be pushing to maintian second ammendment rights.

I did some peace keeping operations in Mongolia last year with a contingent of Sikhs; my impression of them was that they were the "special forces" of Hindu (though they are not Hindu) they have special garb they wear, and almost ALL of it is to "remind them how to kill Muslims" they carry LARGE "ceremonial" knives (sometimes referred to as swords) specifically so they are ready to kill Muslims if they find one.. its a religion that came from the constant Muslim - Hindu conflict (IIRC) and it surprises me that this guy didn't get stabbed about 500 times in that Sikh temple; perhaps it was "no knives day" there?
Of course these Sikh are probably very different than any you would find in the US, but the rellgion is very interesting either way.

Sikhism is the most simple and straightforward religion, but it is a tragedy that various vested interests have tried to misinterpret the philosophy of Sikhism. The Hindu elite have, since long, been trying to define Sikhism as an offshoot of Hinduism because, according to them, most of the Sikhs have/had their roots in Hindu families. The Indian regime too is bent upon labelling the Sikhs as a branch of Hinduism. Sikhs have not been granted independent identity in the Indian constitution.. Due to this the Sikh representatives had rejected and refused to give their assent to it.


The theological principles, the articles of faith, the way of life, rites and rituals etc of the Sikhs are altogether different from those of the Hindus but the Indian government has, still, denied the Sikhs their right to have a separate law of their own. The Hind law has been forced upon them against their will.


Sikhism was founded by Guru Nanak Sahib. Guru Nanak Sahib was born in a Hindu family but he never adopted Hindu religion. On the other hand he rejected Hinduism and its rituals. He refused to wear Janeo (a thread which is sacred to the Hindus). For a Hindu Janeo is obligatory (though most of the Hindus have forsaken it now). Mohammed, the founder of Islam, was born in a Quraishi family. He founded Islam and rejected the religion of the Quraishi Arabians. It will be wrong to call Islam as a branch of old Arabian religious belief. Moses, the founder of Judaism, was born in a family which worshipped idols. Moses rejected idol worship. Christ was born to Jewish parents. No one will define Christianity as an offshoot of Judaism. Similarly, Guru Nanak Sahib, though born to Hindu parents, founded a distinct religion. It is ignorance (or conspiracy) to call Sikhism as an offshoot of Hinduism. Guru Nanak Sahib had proclaimed in unequivocal words that the Sikhs are "neither Hindus nor Muslims" (na ham Hindu na Musalman). Before his death Guru Nanak Sahib appointed Guru Angad Sahib as his successor and merged his light in the light of Guru Angad Sahib. Guru Sahib fulfilled his mission in ten lives (Guru Nanak sahib to Guru Gobind Singh Sahib). Guru Gobind Singh Sahib installed Guru Granth Sahib as Guru-Eternal of the Sikhs on October 6, 1708, thus granting the status of Guru to the Word.


Sikhism is an independent religion. It does not have roots in any other religion or ideology. Like Hinduism, it is not mere ritualistic way of life. It has no superiority of any special caste, class, country colour or gender. Sikhism does not consider this world as unreal; of course it is Maya (illusion). It advocates oneness of spiritual and temporal domains. In Sikhism the king is a spiritual humanitarian ruler. Sikhism teaches non-attachment for the worldly things. On the other hand, Hinduism is a conglomeration of paradoxical concepts and teachings.


Sikhism does have it origin in the Indian subcontinent but the Sikhs are not Hindus. Guru Nanak Sahib and his successors had clarified it in unequivocal words:


We are neither Hindus nor Muslims (p. 1136)

Muslims and Hindus have different paths (Bhai Gurdas)

[JRS]

[QUOTE=Carmody;533231]Note the attack on family, in the same way as the Libor scandal regarding James Holmes' father's involvement in the Libor scandal.

They go after family, and connections.....in order to create fear and division in those who might try to work against their agenda.

in this way, the pertinent points don't make it to the press and several different types of agendas are fulfilled at the same time.


Hey Carmody, Are you insinuating that this attack was not that of a deranged Arab hater with way too easy access to guns, but rather was a well planned operation designed with the purpose of preventing Arm Kaleka and Steven Greer from coming out with their planned movie "Sirius", and also planned to further the agenda to abrogate the US 2nd amendment and confiscate all privately held guns in the whole US? WOW!!!! Who is awake and aware on this forum? Time for some damage control! Come on Greer bashers! Let's start with "Nothing to see here-go watch the Olympics"

[ghostrider]

I saw the vid , the witness said four men dressed in dark clothing did this, not what the media is saying. I think it was on David Ickes website, but it did mention four individuals. yep check out the vid on David Ickes website.

[ghostrider]

Posted by Ellisa (here)
Do you really think that ghostrider-- or do you think that these incidents of mass murder may have something to do with the fact that every slightly aggrieved, or massively deranged, citizen can just amble down to the local supermart and buy enough weapons to obliterate a suburb singlehanded?

someone like your suggesting could take a chainsaw and do as much damage, this is the CIA = problem reaction solution. they want gun control , that pesky second amendment. If they take guns away from law abiding citizens, tanks and the military will roll into your neighborhood to protect you from the boogyman and it's by by any little freedom you ever had. they need a reason to impliment marital law, what better way, than to use the military to go after those massively deranged citizens which with media soundbites could be anyone they pick.

[GlassSteagallfan]

Perfect timing too!

While thousands and thousands of Americans were champion-ing the American sucess of the landing of the Mars Science Labatory 'Curisority', a shooting takes place that diverts attention away from our accomplishment.

[Rocky_Shorz]

Posted by Carmody (here)
Note the attack on family, in the same way as the Libor scandal regarding James Holmes' father's involvement in the Libor scandal.

They go after family, and connections.....in order to create fear and division in those who might try to work against their agenda.

in this way, the pertinent points don't make it to the press and several different types of agendas are fulfilled at the same time.


Once again, you can always see the hidden hand if you know what you are looking for..and that is a situation where multiple agendas are moved forward, within the scope of a single move.

let me guess being in a band, his favorite video games was Guitar Hero and there is a Neurosky headset plugged into the console which is set up for online gaming...

[Rocky_Shorz]

Posted by Laurel (here)
I'm in shock and deeply saddened. I live about 20 minutes from Oak Creek, and stuff like this just doesn't happen there. It just doesn't make sense. I agree that there's something very suspicious about this shooting.

I'm sorry to hear you are so close to this, it really hurts when you see one of the safest places in the world invaded by a monster...

been there, so I do understand...

[Rocky_Shorz]

Posted by Earth Angel (here)
would his former position as a psychological operations specialist perhaps mean he had some info about the Colorado shooting? ( he was originally from Colorado as well ) Perhaps he was making some noise about what he thinks went down there??
unfortunately after these stories come out and you have someone like James Holmes going from squeaky clean kid, top of the top of his class, never in trouble with the law then suddenly all kinds of stories about his mental state, treatment by doctors, not top of his class etc. start happening, I tend to not believe a lot of the stories that comes out after.

Also there was a new thread here regarding Timewave zero novelty on the Colorado shooting date, could this be the next event that was predicting https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...-well-as-TODAY.

another psych specialist? Holmes was PhD Neurology so now I'm sure he has access to the NeuroSky

[Moemers]

Devil's Advocate here - and I want to make that double clear, this is just a thought that popped into my head:

Steven Greer set this up.

Discuss?

[Maunagarjana]

Posted by Moemers (here)
Devil's Advocate here - and I want to make that double clear, this is just a thought that popped into my head:

Steven Greer set this up.

Discuss?

Maybe Arm Kaleka is the one behind it......nobody would see that coming.....him offing his own father to further his film career. It's just so crazy, it must be true.

peace
brian

[Moemers]

Posted by Maunagarjana (here)

Posted by Moemers (here)
Devil's Advocate here - and I want to make that double clear, this is just a thought that popped into my head:

Steven Greer set this up.

Discuss?

Maybe Arm Kaleka is the one behind it......nobody would see that coming.....him offing his own father to further his film career. It's just so crazy, it must be true.

peace
brian

Deeper....

[Buck]

Wow, that's harsh.
Are you and Moemers trying to impress everyone with ability to emotionally disassociate yourselves from a traumatic event? Both of you seem very comfortable spit-balling theories around, comfortably ignoring the emotional and psychic trauma you are speculating about. Congratulations to you both, very MK Ultra of you. Oh, and speaking of MK, I just happened to notice Moemr- your own words regarding the origin of this new theory of yours -

"this is just a thought that popped into my head:"
You might want to look at that.

and Maunag- are you seriously suggesting this as a plausible theory? Either that or you are trying to be funny? Maybe so- I mean its ok to laugh at these people- after all, they are not really human anyway- right? Everyone knows these hollywood elites are devil worshipping baby eaters who wouldn't think twice about arranging to have their father and multiple innocent victims gunned down if it would generate some publicity. Yeah, that sounds plausible.

Certainly makes a whole lot more sense than a government coverup of an MK false flag operation bearing the same tell tales as many of the other lone shooter rampages.

Dare to allow yourself to feel something for the people who just suffered this tragedy. Pay attention to how easily you are seduced into demonizing your fellow man.

[Maunagarjana]

Posted by Buck (here)
and Maunag- are you seriously suggesting this as a plausible theory? Either that or you are trying to be funny?

I was trying to be funny, but not by making light of the killings. Actually, I was making fun of Moemers suggestion that Greer might be behind the killings, which I find to be completely ludicrous. So I offered an even more ludicrous suggestion to highlight the absurdity of Moemer's suggestion about Greer. I thought that would be obvious, but apparently not.

[CdnSirian]

http://copycateffect.blogspot.com/20...hael-page.html This meticulous writer missed the "4 men in black" witness statement. Unfortunately he is now being meticulous perhaps in the wrong direction.

http://copycateffect.blogspot.com/20...-copycats.html more on his usual theme.

Good stuff recently as well on the Colorado stuff. Down the right sidebar...

[Rocky_Shorz]

well the tragedy is terrible, but there is good that came out of this...

most American's never knew what Sikh's believe, one God is very non Hindu fighters of Muslims should even get a Republican's heart...

we're all evolving, living in complete peace, brings down everyone's defenses allowing for all to grow.

the day before my Birthday, one year before the Mayan Calendar and Federal Reserve control on America end, my friend was killed in a car crash...

the autopsy showed he died 3 hours before the crash...

it is no longer about fighting between believers...

there are sick and twisted monsters running this world from the shadows...

we at Avalon are here to turn on the lights...

[Arrowwind]

Posted by TargeT (here)

Posted by Arrowwind (here)
Hmmm..... Sikhs have a strong military inclination hsitorically in India, although Sikhs here in the US have been very peaceful. I suspect they will be taking guns now to their meetings. In general I think Sikhs will be pushing to maintian second ammendment rights.

I did some peace keeping operations in Mongolia last year with a contingent of Sikhs; my impression of them was that they were the "special forces" of Hindu (though they are not Hindu) they have special garb they wear, and almost ALL of it is to "remind them how to kill Muslims" they carry LARGE "ceremonial" knives (sometimes referred to as swords) specifically so they are ready to kill Muslims if they find one.. its a religion that came from the constant Muslim - Hindu conflict (IIRC) and it surprises me that this guy didn't get stabbed about 500 times in that Sikh temple; perhaps it was "no knives day" there?
Of course these Sikh are probably very different than any you would find in the US, but the rellgion is very interesting either way.

Sikhism is the most simple and straightforward religion, but it is a tragedy that various vested interests have tried to misinterpret the philosophy of Sikhism. The Hindu elite have, since long, been trying to define Sikhism as an offshoot of Hinduism because, according to them, most of the Sikhs have/had their roots in Hindu families. The Indian regime too is bent upon labelling the Sikhs as a branch of Hinduism. Sikhs have not been granted independent identity in the Indian constitution.. Due to this the Sikh representatives had rejected and refused to give their assent to it.


The theological principles, the articles of faith, the way of life, rites and rituals etc of the Sikhs are altogether different from those of the Hindus but the Indian government has, still, denied the Sikhs their right to have a separate law of their own. The Hind law has been forced upon them against their will.


Sikhism was founded by Guru Nanak Sahib. Guru Nanak Sahib was born in a Hindu family but he never adopted Hindu religion. On the other hand he rejected Hinduism and its rituals. He refused to wear Janeo (a thread which is sacred to the Hindus). For a Hindu Janeo is obligatory (though most of the Hindus have forsaken it now). Mohammed, the founder of Islam, was born in a Quraishi family. He founded Islam and rejected the religion of the Quraishi Arabians. It will be wrong to call Islam as a branch of old Arabian religious belief. Moses, the founder of Judaism, was born in a family which worshipped idols. Moses rejected idol worship. Christ was born to Jewish parents. No one will define Christianity as an offshoot of Judaism. Similarly, Guru Nanak Sahib, though born to Hindu parents, founded a distinct religion. It is ignorance (or conspiracy) to call Sikhism as an offshoot of Hinduism. Guru Nanak Sahib had proclaimed in unequivocal words that the Sikhs are "neither Hindus nor Muslims" (na ham Hindu na Musalman). Before his death Guru Nanak Sahib appointed Guru Angad Sahib as his successor and merged his light in the light of Guru Angad Sahib. Guru Sahib fulfilled his mission in ten lives (Guru Nanak sahib to Guru Gobind Singh Sahib). Guru Gobind Singh Sahib installed Guru Granth Sahib as Guru-Eternal of the Sikhs on October 6, 1708, thus granting the status of Guru to the Word.


Sikhism is an independent religion. It does not have roots in any other religion or ideology. Like Hinduism, it is not mere ritualistic way of life. It has no superiority of any special caste, class, country colour or gender. Sikhism does not consider this world as unreal; of course it is Maya (illusion). It advocates oneness of spiritual and temporal domains. In Sikhism the king is a spiritual humanitarian ruler. Sikhism teaches non-attachment for the worldly things. On the other hand, Hinduism is a conglomeration of paradoxical concepts and teachings.


Sikhism does have it origin in the Indian subcontinent but the Sikhs are not Hindus. Guru Nanak Sahib and his successors had clarified it in unequivocal words:


We are neither Hindus nor Muslims (p. 1136)

Muslims and Hindus have different paths (Bhai Gurdas)

Well, probably the idea to kill Muslims by some Sikhs in certain areas of the world comes from being attacked over the years. Muslims and their jihad have proven over time to be very agressive in some regions. Sikhs traditionally will support first their own freedom to practice the religion they see fit, and secondly to defend the weak and they have done lots of defending of Hindus over the years, as well as outright fighting with them, especially early on. Guru Nanak promoted this this concept of defense of self and others. It really is a beautiful religion if you are the religion type. I use to live on a Sikh ashram at one time.
My name was Guru Tier Kaur ... translates to the Guru's Arrow Princess..

Oh, I would argue that most Chistians to feel that Christianity came out of Judiasm. They still use the Old Testiment and they teach much of it still, you know, Adam and Eve, in the beginning was the word, the whole moses and abraham thing, the parting of the red sea, the Jews in Egypt is still a huge teaching of Christianity, while little if any of Hindism is found in Sikhism... but still cultural similarites exist... the yoga, meditation. Yoga preceeded Hinduism I think... yet many Hindus do yoga and meditate... but in Sikhism there is only one god, in Hinduism, many.

Jia Guru Satnam

[Arrowwind]

Posted by ghostrider (here)
someone like your suggesting could take a chainsaw and do as much damage, this is the CIA = problem reaction solution. they want gun control , that pesky second amendment. If they take guns away from law abiding citizens, tanks and the military will roll into your neighborhood to protect you from the boogyman and it's by by any little freedom you ever had..

Well, they haven't taken guns away yet, but still they are entering neighborhoods with swat teams armed to the hilt. Having guns makes no difference and they know that elsewise we wouldnt have them. We have moved beyond in military capability so a even machine guns for selfdefense makes littel difference. .. not when you have airborne missiles that targetn in with the use of drones... to locate you in a specific house, in a specific neighborhood, right down to the room you sleep in.

Congress just signed a bill to build, what was it? 3,000 drones to be used over American soil? A few hand guns or even machine guns means nothing, absolutley nothing in the hands of the public. They could make your neighborhood look like Bagdad in 2003, in just a couple of hours.

[Rocky_Shorz]

what type of weapons are these drones fitted for?

I understand cost of keeping a drone up is 1/1000 of what a helicopter is, so monitoring traffic, chases etc don't have to depend on Satellites on the other side of the clouds.

with 3 Million guns, the first drone strike in the US would mean there would never be another that left the ground...

We the People, take peace seriously...

[Buck]

Posted by Maunagarjana (here)

Posted by Buck (here)
and Maunag- are you seriously suggesting this as a plausible theory? Either that or you are trying to be funny?

I was trying to be funny, but not by making light of the killings. Actually, I was making fun of Moemers suggestion that Greer might be behind the killings, which I find to be completely ludicrous. So I offered an even more ludicrous suggestion to highlight the absurdity of Moemer's suggestion about Greer. I thought that would be obvious, but apparently not.

Thanks for responding to my barbed post with such candor.
As it happens I returned back to this thread tonight to offer my apologies to Avalon and to you two in particular. I had just posted on another thread earlier in the day (yesterday) about how important it is now more than ever for all us to take responsibility for our potential. But what I began to realize today, was my own post on here was a textbook example of hypocrisy in action.

How incredibly ironic. I was mortified. I tried to tell myself the urge to apologize and share this realization was not appropriate to bring my dirty laundry back to Avalon and distract this thread with my own minutia. Then I realized that part- that last part I just said, that was most definitely a lie. Well, well, - if it isn't my old friend ego, trying to keep it's own sneaky business out of the light.

And so here I am, me and my ego- which is most definitely squirming as I share a little outline of it's tactics at work;

I like to think of myself as very accepting of whatever reaction my emotional self needs to run through. This presented a dilemma, as my initial emotional reaction to your post was visceral, and very strong- and this reaction was most definitely NOT within what I had considered an acceptable range. In truth I was enraged, scared, sputtering for words, indignant, alarmed and agitated all at once- I mean, couldn't anyone here see that these words were the very seeds of ignorance that we are all watching grow to full expression in terrible violence and destruction? And here we are joking about it and showing each other how clever we are with our words. Well something had to be done - someone had to speak out. Someone who could say what needed to be said.

This truth is this kind of thing triggers something very primal for me- the experience(or the delusion- it's all bundled in this together) of being the one that senses what others do not- the terror of reliving something very old and very traumatic for me was activated. And thank God that didn't happen to me anymore, because I am so accepting now, not rigid and judgemental like I used to be when I was not as enlightened.

And so, as I posted and lectured everyone about Mk patterning and evidence of control triggers, I was at that very moment hostage to an unconscious trigger of my own. One minute I am driving the bus, singing Kumbaya on a sunny day, and the next minute I am trussed and blindfolded rolling around on the floor as my ego roars down main street with the lights and siren on, hunched over the wheel eyes hot on the train of the ever elusive horizon of impending doom.

That's how it works- one second, one millisecond of judgement, and you are in the weeds.

Apologies to all- from me, and my (slightly singed) ego

[Referee]

NPR now reports Security cameras were off that morning and the Shooter Shot himself............

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=LQ7DQnxyt0g