HUNZAS - a people who live to age 145!

[ED209]

I never once said that academic perspectives were superior. Or that there is something inferior with the Hunza way of life. The professor that I got my information from worked as an NGO translator in the Himalayas. She was anything but conventionally academic and one of the most humane, genuine, kind people that I have ever met. Just because I learned something from a university does not mean it isn't the truth either. It certainly has more credence for me personally, and goes through more rigors than an online e-book with no references or even mention of the author acting as a primary source. Don't get me wrong, I agree with you, K., regarding legitimacy and about not everything you learn in school being true, especially once you throw in a good dose of subjectivity -- but still, I have a problem really buying into this original post.

That said, poverty is poverty. Malnutrition is malnutrition. Mortality rates are mortality rates. I am not going to get day-dreamy and sentimental about how wonderful the Hunza lifestyle is. I am sure it is awesome day to day. But the region has a lot of poverty issues.

Prenatal care does not always imply high-tech. It also means simple things like having a mid wife that can recognize importance of hemmoragic warning signs to take preventative steps to save a mother's life.

As far as academia goes, especially in the social sciences, especially in this day and age, there is tremendous consideration given to avoid superiority complexes and to view the world through an empathic, non-judgement, culturally-competent lens and worldview. Judgements are quickly weeded out. Academia is very different now!

I don't want to blindly accept that people are living like 100 years over the life expectancy for their region of the world just because of apricots and food scarcity. Would I believe longer life? Yes! Would I believe less cancer? Yes! Would I believe less heart disease, no diabetes, etc.? Heck yes! But what about malnutrition? Or the genetic issues associated with small isolated gene pools? Obviously people that have died from malaria and malnutrition will not be there to smile at you and give you apricots. I really appreciate that you have at least been there, which I have not, but I just can't idealize the Hunza like this. They are human beings and they by default of their humanity, have problems too. Really, the only person that could say what is what would be someone who is Hunza, not you or me.

[Bill Ryan]

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I heard about Hunza long ago -- mentioned in the same breath as Vilcabamba and Georgia. (And also, more recently, Okinawa in Japan.)

I don't think it matters whether they live to 145, or 125, or 105. The learning for all of us in the western world, where food comes from supermarkets, yogurt is sweetened with aspartame, and no-one walks farther than to the postbox and back, is that there's a different way of living in the world which is itself rapidly becoming extinct.

Note that many elderly people in these areas cannot prove (or even properly remember!) their age. They never had birth certificates in that culture over 100 years ago. But they're in very good shape, and have certainly been around for quite a long time.

We also must remember that quality of life is critical. Age is not the only statistic. A 100 year old man in Hunza or Vilcabamba might still be riding his horse and tending his garden. A 100 year old man in London or New York is quite likely to be in a hospital, unable to cope on his own.

[ED209]

I think that is very well said and that you got to the heart of this matter quite perfectly and with tremendous insight. :-)

[karelia]

Posted by ED209 (here)
I never once said that academic perspectives were superior. Or that there is something inferior with the Hunza way of life. <snipped for space-saving purposes>

Hi ED209,

It wasn't my intention to slam the academic world; I simply pointed out something I see over and over again, and that is that arrogance that the Western world only sees everything from their point of view, and it has to be right in their view. I was by no means idolizing the Hunza way of life either, I was trying to encourage people to look at them from a different perspective than that of the privileged white/western human.

I doubt malnutrition is a problem there. Pakistan isn't India, and whilst there are many poor people, the majority do have enough to eat. Malaria isn't a problem as far as I know anywhere in Pakistan and least likely up in the mountains.

Genetic problems due to inbreeding are rampant all over the Indian Sub-Continent as well as the Arab world. If generation after generation cousin marries cousin, you end up with problems; it's inevitable. So that is a problem that isn't limited to the people in Hunza if it does exist there as well.

But overall, I maintain that we can learn from their way of life, just as we can learn from Natives all over the planet, if only we look and are open.

[13th Warrior]

Posted by karelia (here)

Posted by ED209 (here)
I never once said that academic perspectives were superior. Or that there is something inferior with the Hunza way of life. <snipped for space-saving purposes>

Hi ED209,

It wasn't my intention to slam the academic world; I simply pointed out something I see over and over again, and that is that arrogance that the Western world only sees everything from their point of view, and it has to be right in their view. I was by no means idolizing the Hunza way of life either, I was trying to encourage people to look at them from a different perspective than that of the privileged white/western human.

The term that describes this attitude is "ethnocentric" and although "The Western World" contains many people with this sort of attitude it happens to be a rather common human condition...

[Buck]

who said anything about accepting what someone says as truth without discernment? That is a leap from what I wrote, or any other post I have seen on this thread.

And what is "misinformation" ? define.

I have been to the Himalayas. Recently. And thanks to the generosity of some of the people of that region, I had the good fortune to be shown that there are other forces at work that influence our health and longevity in much more profound ways than how much meat or berries we consume.

The real question is what is the value of that "truth" to you? Is it more important to disprove the chronological ages, the accuracy of the diets, the condition of their teeth? Or what if there something else Celtman wanted to share with you? Or what if I returned from the Himalayas with something special that I learned- an insight into something potentially far more important than what they were eating? Are you interested in hearing it? Are you ready? Or are you more invested in scrutinizing the mountain dust on my shoes laces and double checking my passport stamps? It's up to you.

Take a look at Bill Ryan's most recent thread regarding the true mission of Avalon. I have a hunch that Celtman's intent was inviting a much more subtle and profound conversation with this thread.

[CeltMan]

"But overall, I maintain that we can learn from their way of life, just as we can learn from Natives all over the planet, if only we look and are open. "

Thanks Karelia,

That is exactly the point that I was trying to convey, .... obviously I failed miserably!

I did however put in at the end that the Hunzas are not affected by pollution-of either: water, air, or food....or 'electronic devices'

The accounts were from a medical doctor, who actually lived with the hunzas for a lenghty period of 7 years. So he had ample time to study them, their lifestyles, diet, health etc,.

No of course we cannot prove what age they live to, but the rest still stands as a testiment to what healthy living can do for us.
I can say that I have taken positive lessons from what I have learned, and have applied them where possible.(bearing in mind that I live in a 'modern society'-with all that entails!)

Bill: "Note that many elderly people in these areas cannot prove (or even properly remember!) their age. They never had birth certificates in that culture over 100 years ago. But they're in very good shape, and have certainly been around for quite a long time.

We also must remember that quality of life is critical. Age is not the only statistic. A 100 year old man in Hunza or Vilcabamba might still be riding his horse and tending his garden. A 100 year old man in London or New York is quite likely to be in a hospital, unable to cope on his own. "

I totally concur.

[ED209]

How is one supposed to intuit what you are saying about intangible spirituality from that original post from Celtman? The post looks like it is about using a specific diet to increase longevity. I just don't get a message about enriched spirituality and connectedness from it.

Please don't assume that I am incapable of open-mindedness just because I read something that talked about tangible, measurable things and responded to them in a way that addressed tangible and measurable things, albeit casually, but in part because the original source links are pretty casual. I originally responded because I thought the idea of living that long was fascinating, so thanks to Celtman for that.

I dunno...who knows...I probably am missing the point. Would you mind telling me how to find the Bill Ryan post about the mission of Project Avalon? I looked but I am not sure where it is. I would greatly appreciate the help with that.

[karelia]

I think THIS is the post referred to with regard to the mission of PA.

We're all here to learn, and sometimes things are tougher to learn than others. *shrugs* We'll all get there in the end.

[CeltMan]

Posted by ED209 (here)
How is one supposed to intuit what you are saying about intangible spirituality from that original post from Celtman? The post looks like it is about using a specific diet to increase longevity. I just don't get a message about enriched spirituality and connectedness from it.

Please don't assume that I am incapable of open-mindedness just because I read something that talked about tangible, measurable things and responded to them in a way that addressed tangible and measurable things, albeit casually, but in part because the original source links are pretty casual. I originally responded because I thought the idea of living that long was fascinating, so thanks to Celtman for that.

I dunno...who knows...I probably am missing the point. Would you mind telling me how to find the Bill Ryan post about the mission of Project Avalon? I looked but I am not sure where it is. I would greatly appreciate the help with that.

ED,

Here is the part you missed in my original post: "The Hunzas practice slow & deep breathing and yoga techniques.

The Hunzas also practice short meditation sessions a few time throughout the day.

Their day starts at 5am, and as there is no electricity they go to sleep at nightfall.

What is also extraordinary about the Hunzas, is that: there are no banks there; no prisons, …& NO DISEASES!

Apart from the influences of: diet; pacing oneself; exercise; breathing; etc it must be said that they have pure; air, water, & food."

What i was attempting to convey, was that by living a 'healthy, body, mind' existence, one MIGHT, just live a longer and more worthwhile existance.

Thanks for your belated 'thanks' for my O.P..no ego involved here, was only attempting to share what I thought in my misguided way, was positive info...lol

Cheers

CMan

p.s. A belated welcome to P.A. from me also

[ED209]

Thanks so much for the link, Karelia. I did read that earlier.

[ED209]

Hi CMan,

Lol...I didn't miss that. But thank you, I see why that is important. Just curious...aren't the Hunza muslim? Is the meditation referring to traditional daily prayer?

[modwiz]

Somehow, I'm not feeling the love...............yet.

[CeltMan]

Posted by ED209 (here)
Hi CMan,

Lol...I didn't miss that. But thank you, I see why that is important. Just curious...aren't the Hunza muslim? Is the meditation referring to traditional daily prayer?

Hi Ed,

I cannot in all honesty speak for their relgious persuations.

I 'meditate' daily,(absent healing & 'manifestatuion/intent/collective conciousness') no big deal, and at best, (despite having been a: Catholic, Christian, Shinto, etc) i merely 'tune into nature/ & the one true source'.

So its possible that the Hunzas did/do the same? (Please don't anyone shoot he messanger ..again!)

Also interesting to note that they had become a 'peaceful people over past 200 years' - after several centuries of 'raiding neighbouring communities for supplies'.

Perhaps shows that we can evolve,- if we have the motivation, and are left alone to do so?

I was never saying that their existance was/is perfect, but I for one hope we can take some good and feasible parts and emulate them?

Cheers

[ED209]

Yeah...I did shoot the messenger, my bad. And my apologies.

This is what I get for trolling the Internet instead of doing the work piling up on my desk. Stop me if I do it again!

[LarryC]

<< Although, a simple google search shows that the claims to extreme Hunza longevity have not been substantiated by anyone and suspiciously seem to be sales fodder. It is commonly known that the part of the world that the Hunza call home, suffers from extreme poverty. Poverty is linked to poor health, low infant mortality rates, and shortened life expectancy no matter where you are. We also know that the Hunza do not keep birth and death records. >>

The statement "poverty is linked to poor health, etc." sounds like a cliche from a textbook or government report. Poverty by whose standards? I'm not claiming to be an expert on the Hunza, but the fact is that by modern Western standards any "primitive" people are extremely poor. But that doesn't mean anything if they aren't living according to the same type of economic model. You mentioned anthropology. Isn't the anthropologist supposed to be able to see the culture he/she is studying from that culture's perspective?

If they don't keep birth and death records, that indeed makes it hard to substantiate any claims -including the one that says that most of them die in their 50s (someone else posted that in this thread).

Finally, there's an interesting thing to keep in mind when speaking of longevity and especially when comparing modern and primitive societies. There's little argument that less advanced cultures have a higher infant mortality rate. That's one of the few clear cut advances Western medicine has made. Yet it also distorts the picture. Consider the following article, which suggests that actual longevity has hardly improved at all in modern times:

http://www.livescience.com/10569-hum...000-years.html

[CeltMan]

Posted by ED209 (here)
Yeah...I did shoot the messenger, my bad. And my apologies.

This is what I get for trolling the Internet instead of doing the work piling up on my desk. Stop me if I do it again!

Ed,

You've got me thinking, ........a serious question.

Q. I wonder if there is any way (with our 'advanced Western science') of proving how old a person is, either whilst they are alive or deceased.

I mean, I know one can tell from a tree by 'counting its rings'....but with us hoomans??.....lol

This is one for my older Bruv?... a retired senior microbiologist.

p.s Apology accepted.

p.p.s. Modwitz,...feeling the love yet mate?..........lol

[WhiteFeather]

Do we have anyone on this forum from Hunza that can interject here? Wouldnt that be a trip.

[ED209]

I don't think the Hunza are primitive at all. They are simply a people that are living within very meager means. That entire region of the world struggles with poverty in terms of access to health care and food. I didn't necessarily mean poverty as we would define it in the US or EU with a definitive monetary marker. I meant poverty as in many Hunza live in a place with few resources..no hospital, little access to education (despite the fact that the Hunza actually greatly value formal education), little food. Stuff that they would consider markers of wealth or even just comfort.

Awesome point about life expectancy, btw!

[The Truth Is In There]

i guess the reason why many people are fascinated with allegedly "long-lived" people is that they'd like to live that long as well, and help that along by incorporating the diet of these people.

what many seem to forget, however, is that it's very unlikely that anyone living in a "westernized" country will be able to reach such an advanced age by adopting a "hunza-like" or any other supposedly healthy diet because of other factors that contribute to the destruction of the physical vehicle, such as toxins in air, water, soil etc. and even in the food itself, as carefully selected as it may be. there are probably not very many chemtrails over the hunza territory but a lot over all of our gardens where we try to grow healthy food.

my point is this, adopting a certain diet that works for a certain group of people in a certain territory won't do you much good if the conditions in which you live aren't similar and if the basics of proper nutrition aren't considered as well.

for instance, one thing that's absolutely essential for a long and healthy life but that many people are quite unaware of are enzymes. nobody on a diet that consists of mostly cooked food will get very old because the body's enzyme stores get depleted rapidly if they're not replenished on a regular basis.

that's especially noteworthy since the hunzas seem to consume grains on a regular basis which are not only harmful to the human body because of enzyme inhibitors and phytotoxins but also need to be cooked or baked in order to be more or less digestible by humans (unless they're fermented), thus depleting enzyme stores, raising blood sugar and insulin to unhealthy levels and increasing physical decay. the same is true for diets that incorporate lots of fruits because fructose is basically a slow working toxin in any but very small amounts.

bottom line is this - people can dream about getting very old by eating or living like certain people but it's unlikely that their efforts will meet with success if they don't understand how the body and metabolism functions and how they can counter the problems that may develop while they're on a certain diet. that's specially true for vegans and vegetarians, not to mention "fruitarians".