+ Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 16 FirstFirst 1 2 12 16 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 317

Thread: Evidence That A Boeing 757 Really Did Impact the Pentagon on 9/11

  1. Link to Post #21
    United States Honored, Retired Member. Fred passed on 9 Oct, 2016.
    Join Date
    13th February 2010
    Location
    Handbasket
    Age
    68
    Posts
    1,818
    Thanks
    185
    Thanked 1,619 times in 386 posts

    Default Re: Evidence That A Boeing 757 Really Did Impact the Pentagon on 9/11

    Quote it clearly shows it was a plane not a missile.
    Yup.

    Quote 'the simplest explanation gets closest to the truth.'
    Occam's Razor.

    Quietly sneaking northward, from the Pentagon to the WTC...
    You can pour through endless analysis of things structural, "demolition plans" and what have you, re the fall of the WTC. Much of this stuff boils down to a simple statement which is supposed to "prove" these buildings had "help":
    "Jet fuel cannot burn hot enough to melt steel!"
    And they'd be right... as far as it went.

    A simple fact always seems to be missing in all this.

    The structural integrity of steel girders is dependent on three things; Its material, shape, and its rigidity (hardness).
    • So the standard shape is an I-bean. good choice.
    • The material is what is called ASTM-36. This is basically a low grade steel for construction purposes. They use a lot of it so it needs to be cheap, and easy to make.
    • The particulars of the heat treatment I do not know, but it is basically a balance between adding toughness without becoming too brittle, for the intended use.
    It takes a proper combination of the three for the steel to do its job. Lose one, and you have lost structural integrity and something's gotta give.

    (Told you that story, to tell you this one)
    You will never guess at what temperature ASTM-36 becomes "annealed", meaning it loses its heat treated rigidity....

    I'll give you a teeny hint

    What is the temperature of burning jet fuel?
    Bingo!
    Fred
    Last edited by Fredkc; 18th August 2010 at 16:58.

  2. Link to Post #22
    Avalon Member jimmer's Avatar
    Join Date
    10th April 2010
    Location
    foothills of the rockies
    Posts
    419
    Thanks
    411
    Thanked 329 times in 166 posts

    Default Re: Evidence That A Boeing 757 Really Did Impact the Pentagon on 9/11

    fredkc,
    I've heard the argument that 'fire can't melt steel.' (expert, rosie o'donnel and lose change).
    that argument is based on assumptions.
    your truth is very welcomed amongst the rumble .
    so they went cheap on the steel (have you seen the movie, The Towering Inferno'? same plot)
    and the terrorist got lucky 'taking down the towers.'

    question: at WTC, the most intriguing and disturbing find is 'thermite' around the grounds
    and those 'sheared' columns. that looks suspect to me.
    do you have any background on that?

    jimmer

  3. Link to Post #23
    Poland Avalon Retired Member
    Join Date
    12th April 2010
    Age
    39
    Posts
    1,435
    Thanks
    519
    Thanked 1,107 times in 242 posts

    Default Re: Evidence That A Boeing 757 Really Did Impact the Pentagon on 9/11

    Fred, I'll bite.
    Open air burning temperature of jet fuel is about 287.5 C (549.5 F)
    ASTM A36 is a low alloy construction steel. it has melting point of 1,426–1,538 C (2,599–2,800 F) and have half-yield strength at 538C (1000.4 F, still twice the open air burn for jet fuel, ). Towers were calculated for half yield situation (and impact of 707 btw.). After-collapse study steel used had average 115% of minimum specification yields (meaning- they used cheap but not el cheapo)
    Footage from WTC shows black smoke, which means oxygen starved (cold) fire at even lower temperature.
    And at least in our material-knowledge course it was specifically stated that you do not quench structural steel, as it makes it brittle, which is precisely what you do not want it to be. You want it to bend before it breaks. The yield is heightened by using specific add-ons, :chromium, cobalt, columbium, molybdenum, nickel, titanium, tungsten, vanadium or zirconium, etc. These steels are hot-rolled then air cooled in controlled environment, so they'd have as small amount of internal stress as possible. Plus every weld or hot rivet would locally ruin the quench, making structure unpredictable. But maybe americans do it different way.
    This is what interested out construction professors the most : how on earth such structure folded over itself. By every law of physics even if columns would give in , the top side should go the path of least resistance ie. fall to the side of the building. Instead it went down the path of most resistance. It'll only made sense if somehow the lower part of building core mysteriously evaporated, and whole set started to act like giant piston. ... but that is far into forbidden land of CtrlDem

    As for WTC steel, this is good read: http://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/jom...ovic-0711.html "The Role of Metallurgy in the NIST Investigation of the World Trade Center Towers Collapse"

  4. Link to Post #24
    Avalon Member Kari Lynn's Avatar
    Join Date
    26th March 2010
    Posts
    891
    Thanks
    88
    Thanked 1,705 times in 537 posts

    Default Re: Evidence That A Boeing 757 Really Did Impact the Pentagon on 9/11

    Plane. Darn me and my slow dial up internet.

    But Fred, I have to agree with you. I think we need to stop standing stalled about what happened concerning 911 and concern ourselves now with what is happening because of it.

  5. Link to Post #25
    Avalon Member jimmer's Avatar
    Join Date
    10th April 2010
    Location
    foothills of the rockies
    Posts
    419
    Thanks
    411
    Thanked 329 times in 166 posts

    Default Re: Evidence That A Boeing 757 Really Did Impact the Pentagon on 9/11

    but it does matter what happened.
    what and how it happened is everything.
    if it was a 'false flag' then the entire 'terrorist' thing and our response is phony.
    if it was a terrorist attack, then we are justified defending ourselves and self interest.
    although, you could argue how to do that the best.

    so, in this pentagon part of the 911 story, it was a plane, not a missile.
    this part of the event is debunked?

    in all these fantastic plots and twists presented at PA,
    we need to fundamentally work at separating the wheat from the chaff.

    just wanna keep score.

  6. The Following User Says Thank You to jimmer For This Post:

    Curious77 (7th October 2014)

  7. Link to Post #26
    Avalon Member Operator's Avatar
    Join Date
    24th March 2010
    Location
    Caribbean
    Posts
    2,605
    Thanks
    5,858
    Thanked 8,584 times in 1,855 posts

    Default Re: Evidence That A Boeing 757 Really Did Impact the Pentagon on 9/11

    I'm sorry, definitely no plane ... before you repeat 'review the post' ... maybe you should review it more carefully again and double check some resources.

    I am not in the position to share details nor do I want to get involved in yes/no debates ... I think Spirit Wolf already hinted in the right direction.

  8. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Operator For This Post:

    Curious77 (7th October 2014), sheme (19th October 2014)

  9. Link to Post #27
    Avalon Member HORIZONS's Avatar
    Join Date
    19th March 2010
    Age
    59
    Posts
    1,302
    Thanks
    1,441
    Thanked 2,082 times in 597 posts

    Default Re: Evidence That A Boeing 757 Really Did Impact the Pentagon on 9/11

    I would like to know how building 7 imploded on itself? ... no plane or jet fuel, no rocket, no tower falling over on it; just a small fire from some collateral damage and boom it implodes. Coincidence? And how come there is no wreckage of the crashed plane in Pennsylvania? Did it just vaporize when it hit? Why do not these get the same attention as the towers and the pentagon?
    ~ If nothing changes then nothing changes ~

  10. The Following User Says Thank You to HORIZONS For This Post:

    Curious77 (7th October 2014)

  11. Link to Post #28
    Avalon Member Arpheus's Avatar
    Join Date
    8th July 2010
    Location
    Rhode Island
    Age
    47
    Posts
    834
    Thanks
    138
    Thanked 1,015 times in 326 posts

    Default Re: Evidence That A Boeing 757 Really Did Impact the Pentagon on 9/11

    Quote Posted by HORIZONS (here)
    I would like to know how building 7 imploded on itself? ... no plane or jet fuel, no rocket, no tower falling over on it; just a small fire from some collateral damage and boom it implodes. Coincidence? And how come there is no wreckage of the crashed plane in Pennsylvania? Did it just vaporize when it hit? Why do not these get the same attention as the towers and the pentagon?
    Because the masses of sheep dont really give a crap about what really happened back then my dear friend,thats the bottom line.

  12. Link to Post #29
    Avalon Member HORIZONS's Avatar
    Join Date
    19th March 2010
    Age
    59
    Posts
    1,302
    Thanks
    1,441
    Thanked 2,082 times in 597 posts

    Default Re: Evidence That A Boeing 757 Really Did Impact the Pentagon on 9/11

    Quote Posted by Arpheus (here)
    Because the masses of sheep dont really give a crap about what really happened back then my dear friend,thats the bottom line.
    Yes, there has been massive mind control and programing going on, so that no one gives a crap, to be sure.
    ~ If nothing changes then nothing changes ~

  13. Link to Post #30
    Avalon Member jimmer's Avatar
    Join Date
    10th April 2010
    Location
    foothills of the rockies
    Posts
    419
    Thanks
    411
    Thanked 329 times in 166 posts

    Default Re: Evidence That A Boeing 757 Really Did Impact the Pentagon on 9/11

    Quote Posted by Operator (here)
    ... maybe you should review it more carefully again and double check some resources.
    and what would those resources be?

    and I agree, there are things that don't make sense, like building 7 and finding thermite around WTC.
    this thread focuses on the pentagon missile theory.

  14. Link to Post #31
    Avalon Member HORIZONS's Avatar
    Join Date
    19th March 2010
    Age
    59
    Posts
    1,302
    Thanks
    1,441
    Thanked 2,082 times in 597 posts

    Default Re: Evidence That A Boeing 757 Really Did Impact the Pentagon on 9/11

    Quote Posted by jimmer (here)
    and what would those resources be?

    and I agree, there are things that don't make sense, like building 7 and finding thermite around WTC.
    this thread focuses on the pentagon missile theory.
    Well, Lets tie this altogether then - IMHO I do not see how you can solve one without the others being a part of the discussion. The evidence you post of the pentagon should work within the framework of the towers and the Penn crash as well. If not then there is a problem. If you solve one, then that evidence should work as a platform to help solving the others. After all, this was "one event" that took place to forever change the world.
    ~ If nothing changes then nothing changes ~

  15. Link to Post #32
    United States Avalon Guide: Here to help
     
    Strat's Avatar
    Join Date
    27th April 2010
    Location
    Florida
    Age
    34
    Posts
    1,077
    Thanks
    2,185
    Thanked 6,149 times in 928 posts

    Default Re: Evidence That A Boeing 757 Really Did Impact the Pentagon on 9/11

    What I'm curious about is why wouldn't they use a 747 for the pentagon? That would be very suspicious to have a jet/missile/whatever fly into the side of the pentagon right over the top of a highway where everyone can see it.

  16. Link to Post #33
    Avalon Member Operator's Avatar
    Join Date
    24th March 2010
    Location
    Caribbean
    Posts
    2,605
    Thanks
    5,858
    Thanked 8,584 times in 1,855 posts

    Default Re: Evidence That A Boeing 757 Really Did Impact the Pentagon on 9/11

    Quote Posted by jimmer (here)
    this thread focuses on the pentagon missile theory.
    You gave the answer yourself ... a magician will let you focus on what he wants to ...
    If you see a picture and someone elaborates on what you should see ... you will see it. By building a very narrow focused case the foot is already between the door.

    I know very experienced military personnel, trained in obtaining details from reconnaissance pictures, they can tell ... no plane.
    But their statements are not publicly available.

    Be careful with material that you are being fed ...

  17. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Operator For This Post:

    Curious77 (7th October 2014), sheme (19th October 2014)

  18. Link to Post #34
    Avalon Member jaybee's Avatar
    Join Date
    17th March 2010
    Location
    Midlands England
    Posts
    1,179
    Thanks
    1,229
    Thanked 2,337 times in 750 posts

    Default Re: Evidence That A Boeing 757 Really Did Impact the Pentagon on 9/11

    Quote Posted by Operator (here)
    You gave the answer yourself ... a magician will let you focus on what he wants to ...
    If you see a picture and someone elaborates on what you should see ... you will see it. By building a very narrow focused case the foot is already between the door.

    I know very experienced military personnel, trained in obtaining details from reconnaissance pictures, they can tell ... no plane.
    But their statements are not publicly available.

    Be careful with material that you are being fed ...

    Yes be careful with material that you are being fed.

    That works both ways.

    My interest in the 9/11 conspiracy has been re- kindled by this thread on Avalon...

    http://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...ot-be-so-hasty)


    Also on the thread here about the proposed mosque at Ground Zero...where one poster in particular said something like...'we at Avalon all know that 9/11 was an inside job....'


    There is something about this total belief in 9/11 being an Inside Job... and creating a climate of
    a Group Belief......that is making me uncomfortable.

    Like...if you don't subscribe to the Inside Job theory...that you are in some way stupid, or gulible, or blind...... peer pressure is a powerful thing...and I wonder how many people now would dare to come out and question (or re-quesstion) the 9/11 conspiracy...?

    See in the thread that I posted above...how the blanket belief in 9/11 conspiracy can be used
    either deliberately or unwittingly for political purposes...?

    Ask yourself (directed at everyone) if you feel under pressure to CONFORM to the 9/11 conspiracy..... ?

    You see...the fostering of the conspiracy, in itself COULD be conspiracy based.
    I know...I know....it's a head-banger....but we have to be on our guard not to be manipulated...

    Sorry Jimmer....I will get back on topic in a minute....

  19. Link to Post #35
    Avalon Member jaybee's Avatar
    Join Date
    17th March 2010
    Location
    Midlands England
    Posts
    1,179
    Thanks
    1,229
    Thanked 2,337 times in 750 posts

    Default Re: Evidence That A Boeing 757 Really Did Impact the Pentagon on 9/11

    Jimmer...... I skimmed through the ATS link you gave.....didn't read every word because I haven't got the head-space at the mo...lol.

    But I think it was a airliner that hit the pentagon that fateful day....

    There are some more pictures here...

    http://www.911myths.com/html/757_wreckage.html

    There is also stuff about World Trade Centre 7 and Thermite...here...

    http://www.debunking911.com/index.html
    Last edited by jaybee; 19th August 2010 at 12:03. Reason: spelling

  20. Link to Post #36
    Avalon Member jimmer's Avatar
    Join Date
    10th April 2010
    Location
    foothills of the rockies
    Posts
    419
    Thanks
    411
    Thanked 329 times in 166 posts

    Default Re: Evidence That A Boeing 757 Really Did Impact the Pentagon on 9/11

    jaybee,

    thanks for your thoughtful comments and thanks for the links.

    as for my 911 thermite conundrum:

    "Pictures of Ground Zero's cut columns disprove, once and for all,
    the imaginative theories that claim evidence of the use of thermite
    at the World Trade Center to induce the collapse of the buildings.
    Such "evidence" is merely a misinterpretation of the ordinary effects
    of cutting through the post-collapse remains of a steel structure."


    http://11-settembre.blogspot.com/200...ugh-steel.html

    and finally, jaybee, figure out how to have your computer to read text to you,
    saving your eyes, while easily accessing immense mounts of information.
    life is an attitude.

  21. Link to Post #37
    Avalon Member HORIZONS's Avatar
    Join Date
    19th March 2010
    Age
    59
    Posts
    1,302
    Thanks
    1,441
    Thanked 2,082 times in 597 posts

    Default Re: Evidence That A Boeing 757 Really Did Impact the Pentagon on 9/11

    ~ If nothing changes then nothing changes ~

  22. Link to Post #38
    Avalon Member jimmer's Avatar
    Join Date
    10th April 2010
    Location
    foothills of the rockies
    Posts
    419
    Thanks
    411
    Thanked 329 times in 166 posts

    Default Re: Evidence That A Boeing 757 Really Did Impact the Pentagon on 9/11

    horizons,
    thanks for the link.
    it's tough separating the truth from 911 speculation/computer models/math and conjecture.
    but I do trust bill and his certainty that the PA flight was shot down.

    can you image the crisis mode the air force was in with two planes already into WTC
    and another strike on the pentagon, with flight 93 still making it's run...

    what would you or I do during this minute to minute nightmare?
    sometimes outrageous things must be done for the greater good.

    http://projectcamelot.org/mediafiles..._flight_93.mp3

  23. Link to Post #39
    Avalon Member Peace of Mind's Avatar
    Join Date
    31st March 2010
    Posts
    1,135
    Thanks
    699
    Thanked 3,254 times in 813 posts

    Default Re: Evidence That A Boeing 757 Really Did Impact the Pentagon on 9/11

    Hi guys, I just have a few questions?

    Does anyone here have information on the victims that were on the planes that hit the towers and the Pentagon? Ive seen and heard from the victims families that were in the buildings, but not the planes.

    Is there any leak of actual real time footage of what hit the Pentagon? I know the FBI confiscated all vids showing what hit it but they havent released them to the public yet. All I have ever saw was still shots (that can be photo shopped), and after the disaster photos. Its been said that the serial numbers to the parts recovered at the sites did not match and were from many different planesHUH? So, wheres all the footage of the immediate impact?

    Why havent they found any of the black boxes?

    Ive been in the WTC hundreds of times and I still cant figure out how the metal designs that were wrapped around the first 10 or so floors of T1 and T2 completely turned to dust. How does steal turn to dust? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoAa_B2kRuo

    Why was Nano-thermite at the WTC site?

    Thanks in advance

    Peace

  24. Link to Post #40
    Avalon Member Kari Lynn's Avatar
    Join Date
    26th March 2010
    Posts
    891
    Thanks
    88
    Thanked 1,705 times in 537 posts

    Default Re: Evidence That A Boeing 757 Really Did Impact the Pentagon on 9/11

    Not wanting to argue with anyone, but I can only go by what I see. Someone, a few years back, posted a video captured by the security cameras. Seeing it at normal speed, all you could see is the explosion. BUT.... as I had dial up, it loaded so slowly, that I could see it frame by frame. I saw windows and wings. A plane.

    And the day of.... I watched on live tv as the planes crashed into the buildings.
    So I'm pretty much stuck on the fact that they were planes.
    Now... my question is;
    How would the reporters know to go to the WTC building, point their live camera's at it and wait?

+ Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 16 FirstFirst 1 2 12 16 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Boeing Whistleblower and My Information
    By Sickscent in forum Astronomy and Cosmology
    Replies: 33
    Last Post: 14th June 2016, 20:57
  2. Another 9/11 Pentagon Missile Video? Could This Be It?
    By Enlightenment101 in forum 9/11
    Replies: 47
    Last Post: 25th September 2011, 04:14
  3. Pentagon in a panic over leaked State Dept cables.
    By Grizzom in forum News and Updates
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 12th June 2010, 09:03
  4. Replies: 19
    Last Post: 14th April 2010, 16:55

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts