Bible Topics and Questions

[kreagle]

After much prayer,.....thought,......discussion with an Avalonian member, (dearly loved and respected by "all", here),......and also at the "wise council" of one of our moderators, Kristin,.....I have elected to launch this "new thread",......."Bible Topics and Questions".


I have prayerfully chosen to name this "new thread" as such so that it should always be accommodating to the various Biblical subjects that I'm sure we will all be covering in the near future.

Kristin gave some very wise council as to how this "new thread" should operate, which of course is in compliance with the overall Avalon rules and guidelines. If anyone has any questions, regarding her post, it is linked here for your convenience........
https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...083#post528083

*******OP UPDATE FOR CLARIFICATION*******

This thread is NOT designed for 'debate purposes'. I intended for viewers to click on Kristin's link above in order for them to see, and understand this,....but many have not. This seems to be a very 'sticky situation' to some. Civil 'discussions',....where opinions may differ and are respectfully expressed, are certainly welcomed here. 'Debates',....never seem to follow the guidelines of 'respectability' and often wind up defined as follows,...."a debate is two teams with Boxing gloves waiting for Jerry Springer to ring the bell...". I cannot think of a better reason than this to exclude 'debates' from this particular thread.


Many thoughts and ideas have entered my "mind and heart" over the last several days in regards to an "initial thought provoking concept" to really get things "going in the right direction". After pondering on a couple of "ideas", I was ready to proceed, when suddenly I felt the "Spirit" stopping me dead in my tracks and hitting me right between the eyes with this simple word,..........."TRUST"!!!

I have actually had to "wipe away many tears", today, as I have pondered in my heart the magnitude of this "word",.....TRUST,.....and it's relationship to God and us!


In reality,......TRUST.......is the precursor to "another word" we call "CONFIDENCE"!

"TRUST", is exactly like the "Olympic sprinter" in the starting block,......who by "faith in his/her training routine",......."runs and completes" the race,......crosses the "finish line" and consequently...........gains "CONFIDENCE" in the whole process!


God's Spirit candidly asks today,......."With whom is your TRUST?"


Psalm 118:8
King James Version (KJV)

8 It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man.


(Note to the "reader".......I am "fully persuaded" that this topic of "TRUST", in relationship to God, has bombarded "everyone of us",........including ME! Very painfully, I found out that it was "never God's fault" that this "TRUST" was breached, but because of the influence and/or interference of "mankind"! As in the case of my "illustration above",.....I was allowing my "TRUST" in God to be adversely affected as I was endeavoring to....."run my course"! Consequently I "allowed myself to be temporarily knocked out of the race",.......and delaying my "ultimate goal" of......"finishing the race"!! All of this simply occured because of a "few select individuals" who were masquerading about as "fellow sheep",.....but in reality proved to be "wolves in sheep clothing"! Never again!,......lesson learned,.....the hard way!)


Needless to say,.....it's my most "heartfelt desire" that this "new thread"......"Bible Topics and Questions" gets out of the starting blocks,....."properly".......and is "allowed to run a long, long, successful race",......all the way to the finish line,......where you and I, "all of us", can "raise our hands in victory"!


Hebrews 12:1-3
King James Version (KJV)

12 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,

2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

3 For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.


Let's discuss any "issues you've had" over "TRUST" and what you've been personally exposed to. I think it would really help us all in our "overall race", my friends.


Your friend, brother, and servant,............kreagle

[Joe Akulis]

Good day, kreagle.

Well, I'll toss out one of my biggest issues with trust. It has to do with trusting people who presume to be in positions of authority or expertise on doctrines related to the bible. I was raised a cradle catholic. I am now a little bit of everything, and nothing if not a complete wonderer. (Not a typo there, I didn't mean "wanderer", but there is some of that too.) I mainly just wonder at everything now. I think I've always been that way, it just took some good catalysts to dislodge me from the traditional catholic path.

We trust most professors of religion or most christian priests when they explain the things in the bible to us. After all, they've been to the Seminary, they're the theologists, not us. But part of the problems begin right there. They are not helping you to form your own system of beliefs by letting you do the seeking. They are saying, "This is your faith. Hold to it." It's more like they are giving it to you, or as they will say, "passing it down."

IF what they were teaching us was the most accurate truth to be known at present, then I would not have any issues with trust at all. But I believe there are flaws in what gets handed to us. For example, the majority of Christian teaching suffers from one dreadful flaw: the refusal to approach the subject of reincarnation; to study it, and to learn about it. After all, Jesus taught it.

Once a year in most Catholic churches you will hear them read aloud the passage in the new testament where Jesus asks, "Whom do men say that I am?" Do people start answering by saying things like, "You're gonna be our new king." Or, "You're the greatest prophet and healer of our day." Not really. They start guessing the names of dead people. "Some say you are Elias." (A dead guy.) "Or one of the prophets." (More dead guys.) It's something people with an understanding of reincarnation like to guess about great men. They wonder at who else they might have been in a past life.

Look, I could go on and on about all the other places in the bible where it's clear that Jesus not only taught about reincarnation and its influences, but also that the people he walked amongst already had some understanding of it to begin with. Whether you allow the same misleading interpretations to explain the weirdness of such passages away as nothing, well that is not something you can help someone with if they are not seeking. My point is, I think one of the greatest abuses of our trust is when the Christian faithful have their "truth" taught to them in such a way that we live our lives believing that we get only one life, and then we get "judged" when it's over. And anything that doesn't fit into that mold gets explained away as "God's mysterious ways", when in truth more things are explained with an understanding of reincarnation than wihtout it. And when you begin to understand that certain talents that you develop in one lifetime can be carried with you into the next, (read up on the story of Peter Teekamp), life changes, and the damoclean sword of "death" that christians are always so fearful of, "Will I be saved?", turns into, "I wonder what my next adventure will be?" "What else can I do with this lifetime that will be a fruit to aid and make my next one more pleasant?" "What might be some of the challenges or goals that I set out for myself before I began this life?" After all, you don't really think that a child who can play perfect Mozart on the piano at the age of 4 is one of "God's mysterious ways", or just "incredibly gifted", do you? I bet Jesus would tell you that they spent a lifetime or more getting good at it.

Or how about the big one: "Are some of the bad things in my life a result of something I brought upon myself in a prior life?" Why ELSE do you think Jesus' desciples would see a blind man in the street and then ask Jesus what that man or his parents did that he should be born blind?? They're inquiring about the karmic repercussions that this man might have brought upon himself in a past life. Part of the curiosity over it is because sometimes problems in a person's life can be a result of the cosmic justice that Jesus established in the first place, (if my theory about him being our Logos is correct), or other times it can simply be chosen by that person for a purpose. As Jesus explained in that case. The point there being, Jesus was able to tell why, and they couldn't. And if I was pals with someone who could very easily know these reasons for things being a certain way when people have problems in their life, I would be hounding him with questions like that all the time. Asking Jesus why a person was born blind, could that be called a small form of "regression therapy"? This knowledge can change "Well, God is mysterious in his ways," into "Oohhhh, I see..." Wonder. Learning about reincarnation and karma, to me, made this a more beautiful and just universe where you get out of it what you put into it. And where you have infinitely more freedom to walk whatever path you want to take.

Are there other Christians who have crossed the line from the "one lifetime" belief system over into reincarnation territory like me? If so, do you think there is a freedom that the understanding of reincarnation brings the more you learn about it? Could it be that this is something that was intentionally repressed when the romans and the catholic church decided to call reincarnation a heresy?

Well, I'll turn the thread over to someone else. I'm interested in hearing other opinions on the subject, or to hear what other neat things people have learned about it. (Maybe we could talk about the possibilty of a female in a previous life who is a male in this one. Or vice versa.) Oh my!

[Unified Serenity]

Elias refers to Elijah, and he was taken and did not see death. There are two of those in the bible and are believed to be the two end days prophets that will challenge anti-Christ. So, that bit of info does not play into the reincarnation aspect. There is talk of older esoteric texts that would support and idea of reincarnation, though Hebrews says it's appointed for man to be born once and then face judgement. I personally do not get my panties in a wad over this subject. I just like to keep things factual when it comes to biblical exegesis and discussions.

[Joe Akulis]

Yes, I know it refers to Elijah, but I didn't want to alter the original King James version of the quote. So that shouldn't be characterized as some kind of misstatement of fact.

As far as your notion of Elijah being an end-days prophet, are you saying this prophecy is a "fact", and that this is why people were guessing that Jesus was Elias/Elijah? I don't suppose that your understanding of that "fact" stems from what was written in Malachi chapter 4, does it?

Curious.

[Kindred]

So as to avoid any potential 'pitfalls' for the life of this thread, I have a few questions for the OP (kreagle).

1 - Do you feel the Bible to be the inalienable and unadulterated Word of God, or, do you see this work as more a Parable for Greater Truths, Yet to be truly Understood? What 'constraints', if any, do you place on what is 'admissible' for discussion?

2 - Are you open to discussing the 'proscribed' books and works that are both contemporaneous, or predate the 'official' versionS of this text?
e.g.: Book of Enoch, the writings and concepts of Gnostic scripture (which were Removed from the 'historical' record of 'the bible', due to some machinations of the Holy Roman Empire, some 300 years, AD

3 - Are you open to discussing Newer works that help explain some aspects of history, relative to 'the Bible'.

Answers to each of these questions will help establish for all who wish to comment, the Purpose and Focus of said thread.

In Unity, Peace and Love

[nurgle]

I say believe in whatever you like, whatever gets you through life on a positive note is awsome!

my concern is the bible has been rewritten though history to serve whatever the powers to be at the time were... different versions for whatever a person wants to believe or not believe in

[Beren]

I wrote many times about this subject on various threads and it always pops back up. This shows all that inevitably there is something that`s in Bible which is quite telling. Current versions are with 66 books inside but some versions have more or less texts.

Core message of Bible is Love God and Love your neighbor. This is confirmed by Jesus.

Despite this being the core message there are many more which are hardly understandable and even Peter says something about this in one of his writings that got into Bible :

II Peter 3:

14 Therefore, dear friends, with this to look forward to, make every effort to have him find you at peace, without spiritual stains or blemishes. 15 Think of our Lord’s patience as an opportunity for us to be saved. This is what our dear brother Paul wrote to you about, using the wisdom God gave him. 16 He talks about this subject in all his letters. Some things in his letters are hard to understand. Ignorant people and people who aren’t sure of what they believe distort what Paul says in his letters the same way they distort the rest of the Scriptures. These people will be destroyed.

It`s clear as a day that Bible got many interpretations by many people.

Key for correct understanding of its writings and also many other texts outside of Bible is the holy spirit.
And this is a gift from God.

To whom?

To all with an open heart and soul that is willing to do good.

Last but not the least is that God was and is sharing its wisdom and holy spirit with anyone God so chooses wherever and whoever that person may be.
Christian preacher or native Indian or Zulu tribesmen ...
God cannot be limited whom will he grant his spirit and neither should we put any limits of God`s mercy.

[kreagle]

Posted by Kindred (here)
So as to avoid any potential 'pitfalls' for the life of this thread, I have a few questions for the OP (kreagle).

1 - Do you feel the Bible to be the inalienable and unadulterated Word of God, or, do you see this work as more a Parable for Greater Truths, Yet to be truly Understood? What 'constraints', if any, do you place on what is 'admissible' for discussion?

2 - Are you open to discussing the 'proscribed' books and works that are both contemporaneous, or predate the 'official' versionS of this text?
e.g.: Book of Enoch, the writings and concepts of Gnostic scripture (which were Removed from the 'historical' record of 'the bible', due to some machinations of the Holy Roman Empire, some 300 years, AD

3 - Are you open to discussing Newer works that help explain some aspects of history, relative to 'the Bible'.

Answers to each of these questions will help establish for all who wish to comment, the Purpose and Focus of said thread.

In Unity, Peace and Love

Kindred,

Thank you for your interest and opening remarks. The link that I supplied in my OP, by Kristin, gave pretty much what should be considered "admissible" for discussion. A "few select posters" on that particular thread were attempting to disprove most, if not all, of the Bible,....hence "not allowing the Bible to speak". This was totally opposite of the desires of "that OP",.....and, likewise, "this OP", too. This OP is designed to be a place where "all" can share their personal experiences concerning the Bible. It's a platform for personal growth,....if used correctly,.... with the right frame of mind and spirit.

As to your "3 questions",.....I don't see any real potential problem with them as long as they "meet the simple criteria indicated here", and are not designed and crafted to disprove, denounce, or discredit what the Bible already states.

1) Yes, I do unequivocally believe the Bible is the Word of God, (I personally use the KJV, but to "each his/her own")......and yes, I do believe that there are things "yet to be fully understood",.....(especially in the Book of Revelation).

2) "other Books".......(Book of Enoch, Book of Jasher, Book of Gad the Seer,...and others)
are "mentioned and referred to".... in the Bible, and as such, should not be "excluded" from one's personal development, in my opinion.

3) Yes,....as long as it fits in the "simple framework and criteria" as listed here.


Let's "all" look forward, with much anticipation, to "enriching and fulfilling" discussions concerning His Holy Word,.....shall we?


(Important Point)

I want it to be "expressly known" that I, in no way, view this "thread" as "mine,....or my thread". This is "our thread"!!! I strongly encourage everyone involved to "take complete ownership" of "Bible Topics and Questions" and learn to "share and relay" your personal knowledge of the Scriptures! This can be enriching if utilized correctly!



Your brother, friend, and servant,.............kreagle

[kreagle]

seeker1972,

Thank you, so much, for your input,....and let me be one of the first to extend a "hearty welcome" to you,...here at Avalon.

your partial quote.........

Well, I'll toss out one of my biggest issues with trust. It has to do with trusting people who presume to be in positions of authority or expertise on doctrines related to the bible. I was raised a cradle catholic.

You bring up several good points and I also noted, right off the bat,.......that you, too,....have been "hurt and seemingly somewhat wounded" by mankind. You may recall reading in the OP that I referred to some of "my experiences", so even though "our stories" may differ "in actual content",......I don't doubt that results were "just as profound and difficult" for you, too! My advice to you, in this regards, is to certainly not allow what "others", (whoever they might be), prohibit or keep you back, from obtaining what is "rightfully yours to begin with"! God definitely has a "plan and purpose" for your life,....(as He does for "all" of us),....if you are willing to "recognize and heed" His call upon your life, my friend.

another partial quote, by you......

But I believe there are flaws in what gets handed to us. For example, the majority of Christian teaching suffers from one dreadful flaw: the refusal to approach the subject of reincarnation; to study it, and to learn about it. After all, Jesus taught it.

You also appear to have developed an admiration for the concept of "reincarnation". You are certainly not the first to "misconstrue" what the Bible is actually saying,....which in turn,.....leads to you to believe that It is supporting "reincarnation",.....which, in fact,......It does not. Unified Serenity was certainly correct in her short reply to you,.....and I will give and quote, for you, the passage she was alluding to.......


Hebrews 9:26-28
King James Version (KJV)

26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.


While the "concept of reincarnation" has, I suppose, an "attractive side to it" to those who wish to have "multiple chances to get-it-right",......I'm afraid this concept is, in all reality, built upon the "false and selfish wishes of mankind"!

you also quote......

Once a year in most Catholic churches you will hear them read aloud the passage in the new testament where Jesus asks, "Whom do men say that I am?"

Here is the passage you are referring to.......

Matthew 16:13-20
King James Version (KJV)

13 When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?

14 And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.

15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?

16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

20 Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ.


This dynamic passage of Scripture is certainly misunderstood by many,.....including "11 of the 12 disciples" who were "first hand witnesses" when it originally came out of the mouth of our Lord! The "only one" who understood the "full ramifications and divine nature" of this question by Jesus,....was Peter!


You see, all the "other eleven disciples" could focus upon concerning this "divine question" by Jesus,......was from a "human perspective only"! Jesus was earnestly looking for them,....(and the world),....to recognize Him in His full "Divine State",....as God, manifested in the flesh!,.....and "not just in his fleshly nature as a man!!"

Hence,.....we see the "unanimous reply of the eleven disciples" as they pondered the question and replied,......"Some say that thou art John the Baptist,(a man,...humanity),: some, Elias;, (a man,....humanity) and others, Jeremias,(Jeremiah,...a man,....humanity) or one of the prophets, (a man,....humanity)." ( No one recognized His Divine Nature,...as God, manifested in the flesh,....but.....Peter!)

(Two important points, here)

1) The above passage,....Mt. 16:13-20,.....was "exclusively intended" to bring out, and highlight, the "Divinity of our Lord, Jesus Christ".

2) Peter, consistently "dug much deeper" into "understanding Jesus",...which is certainly prevalent in the above passage and also throughout the New Testament. Certainly, no one should be surprised that it was this "same Peter" who boldly took the floor, on the Day of Pentecost, in Acts 2: 37-40,.....and delivered "the plan of salvation for all times and ages" in a nutshell!! The "keys of the kingdom of heaven" were being fully implemented, here, by the one whose possession they were in, the Apostle Peter!! (v. 19 above)


I'm fully aware, seeker1972, that the "reply and answer" that I've shared with you, here, may not be "exactly what you were looking for",.....but I hope you respect the fact that I've endeavored to "stay within the confinements of His Word",......for inevitably that's what will......"set us free"!, my dear friend.


Please make yourself a "regular", here....on this topic..."Bible Topics and Questions"


I look forward to much further enriching dialogue with you!


Your friend, brother, and servant,.........kreagle

[kreagle]

Beren, my dear brother and fellow-laborer,

Key for correct understanding of its writings and also many other texts outside of Bible is the holy spirit.
And this is a gift from God. (see Acts 2:38)

To whom?

To all with an open heart and soul that is willing to do good.

Last but not the least is that God was and is sharing its wisdom and holy spirit with anyone God so chooses wherever and whoever that person may be.
Christian preacher or native Indian or Zulu tribesmen ...
God cannot be limited whom will he grant his spirit and neither should we put any limits of God`s mercy.

No "truer words" can ever be spoken,......."This, folks,....is for EVERYBODY"!!!


Revelation 22:17
King James Version (KJV)

17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.


AND......


Acts 2:37-40
King James Version (KJV)

37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.


Folks,....the "ONLY ONE" who can "exclude you",......is........"YOU"!!!


Thanks!, again, my dear brother!


Your friend, brother, and servant,.........kreagle

[Krullenjongen]

I like this thread because it gives non christians a place to ask questions they have about christianity.
The problem i have is that people ask to many questions at a time.
For me it would be reaaly good if you could ask just one or two questions and save the rest until these have been answered.
Just a thought to keep it a little organised.

Reincarnation
I the text that Seeker is refering to the deciples answer what the people are saying (this is not what Jesus is saying) and it has a basis in the bible like Seeker is also saying (maliachi 4:5 see: http://bible.cc/malachi/4-5.htm )
So if you look closely the teachers of the law and the people were thinking this and this is not what Jesus taught. (as also confirmed by other texts that man only dies once)

Take for granted what you are taught.
I don't think it is wise to just take everything a christian teacher is teaching for truth.
We are warned in the bible that in the latter days there will also be a lot of false teachers and we should be carefull that we are not deceived. Personally i like to see a lot of references by teachers on what parts of scripture their teaching is based on. If it is not in the bible but just an interpratation than i reject it until i find supporting texts in the bible. I a way i am doing the same as the jews in Berea where Paul went to preach.
This is " These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so." Acts 17:11

Karma

Posted by seeker1972 (here)
Or how about the big one: "Are some of the bad things in my life a result of something I brought upon myself in a prior life?" Why ELSE do you think Jesus' desciples would see a blind man in the street and then ask Jesus what that man or his parents did that he should be born blind?? They're inquiring about the karmic repercussions that this man might have brought upon himself in a past life.

The passage you are refering to is this one:
"1 And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth. 2 And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind? 3 Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him" John 9:3

As you can clearly see Jesus answers that it is not because of the sins of this man or of his parents that he was born blind. Jesus does not confirm any previous life or sin of a previous life.
It could be that the jews of the time also believed like the nowaday catholics that there is something like original sin. That the fall of Adam is carried throught the generations.
I must say that i don't know why the deciples asked this question. I would have to study it more carefull.

Hope this clears thing up a little.

Krullenjongen

[kreagle]

Posted by Krullenjongen (here)
I like this thread because it gives non christians a place to ask questions they have about christianity.
The problem i have is that people ask to many questions at a time.
For me it would be reaaly good if you could ask just one or two questions and save the rest until these have been answered.
Just a thought to keep it a little organised.

Reincarnation
I the text that Seeker is refering to the deciples answer what the people are saying (this is not what Jesus is saying) and it has a basis in the bible like Seeker is also saying (maliachi 4:5 see: http://bible.cc/malachi/4-5.htm )
So if you look closely the teachers of the law and the people were thinking this and this is not what Jesus taught. (as also confirmed by other texts that man only dies once)

Take for granted what you are taught.
I don't think it is wise to just take everything a christian teacher is teaching for truth.
We are warned in the bible that in the latter days there will also be a lot of false teachers and we should be carefull that we are not deceived. Personally i like to see a lot of references by teachers on what parts of scripture their teaching is based on. If it is not in the bible but just an interpratation than i reject it until i find supporting texts in the bible. I a way i am doing the same as the jews in Berea where Paul went to preach.
This is " These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so." Acts 17:11

Karma

Posted by seeker1972 (here)
Or how about the big one: "Are some of the bad things in my life a result of something I brought upon myself in a prior life?" Why ELSE do you think Jesus' desciples would see a blind man in the street and then ask Jesus what that man or his parents did that he should be born blind?? They're inquiring about the karmic repercussions that this man might have brought upon himself in a past life.

The passage you are refering to is this one:
"1 And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth. 2 And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind? 3 Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him" John 9:3

As you can clearly see Jesus answers that it is not because of the sins of this man or of his parents that he was born blind. Jesus does not confirm any previous life or sin of a previous life.
It could be that the jews of the time also believed like the nowaday catholics that there is something like original sin. That the fall of Adam is carried throught the generations.
I must say that i don't know why the deciples asked this question. I would have to study it more carefull.

Hope this clears thing up a little.

Krullenjongen

Krullenjongen,


Great post, my friend and brother! I really like the "insight" you have added here, which is very beneficial.

You are correct, indeed, in your observation about "many questions" at one time, and also trying to "keep things more organized". I have a "few ideas" that I have already been previously thinking of and intend to use, in an effort to properly address what you have brought out, here. You'll see what I mean, as the "thread" progresses over time.


You know, your point about "many questions",....and the desire to answer them "all", first, before moving on to the "next topic",......highlights another "potential problem" that we need to avoid. "Everyone", here, needs to be able to "have the freedom and flexibility" to "ask questions....and.....receive answers" at "different times". You see, each of us will randomly access this thread,...Bible Topics and Questions at "different times". As a result of this, some questions may need to be "re-visited and addressed, again" in order that "everyone" be properly included in the discussion(s). Just because a "particular topic" seems to have been answered, or covered, earlier,....doesn't mean that a "newcomer" might have "additional questions" on this same topic,.....and they deserve to be answered also.

As I continue to say,......this is "our thread",.....to benefit us "all"!!

Keep up the "great work", my friend and brother!


Your friend, brother, and servant,...........kreagle

[kreagle]

Posted by nurgle (here)
I say believe in whatever you like, whatever gets you through life on a positive note is awsome!

my concern is the bible has been rewritten though history to serve whatever the powers to be at the time were... different versions for whatever a person wants to believe or not believe in

nurgle,

Thanks for your input,.....and let me also extend a "hearty welcome" to you, too,....here at Avalon. The "family" just keeps getting "bigger and better"!


Your "concerns" over the Bible have "some" merit,.....but you need to understand that the "overall Truth" is still there for those who wish to obtain it. The "core Truth" is still "unblemished" and available to "all" who reach out for it! Whatever you do, my friend, don't allow yourself to "fall into the trap" of simply discounting and not believing the Bible, altogether,....like so many "others" have unfortunately done!


Two "particular Passages" stick out to me, regarding this........


Psalm 119:89
King James Version (KJV)

89 For ever, O Lord, thy word is settled in heaven.


and.......


Matthew 24:35
King James Version (KJV)

35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.


It's simply through these "two Passages" that convince me that His Word,....(overall),....has and will,.....survive any onslaught that Satan has endeavored to utilize in his efforts to undermine the precious Word of God!


However, the "greatest factor" that totally convinces me about God's Word is,.....MY EXPERIENCE!!! You see, nurgle, when I allowed the "seed of faith, within me",...(and we "all" have it....Romans 12:3),....to germinate and come to fruition in my life,......here's what happened to me!,.......


John 7:37-39
King James Version (KJV)

37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.

38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)


You see,.....when I "let my faith grow",.....and then believed upon Him,....."as the scripture hath said",......then I "EXPERIENCED" the reality of being filled with His Spirit, the Holy Ghost. When I began to speak in "other tongues", as the Spirit gave the utterance,......then, and then only,......did I come to realize and understand what He meant when He said,......"out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water"! (v. 38 above)


Of course, my friend, it will be necessary for you to have "this EXPERIENCE", also,.....for you to fully comprehend what I am trying to convey to you here.


I truly hope you find the time, and the need, to "travel down this same road" that I have spoken about to you. Satan, and this world, will do everything he/they can to convince you that "It's a dead end",.....but I can assure you it is not!


Your friend, brother, and servant.........kreagle

[Frogweaver]

I just have some things I want to write about the New Testament. It is normal of Christian followers to believe that other masters of 'enlightenment' are going to hell... and this contradicts everything Jesus meant to teach his followers; and follower means doing as he does, which most do not do, including:.. Jesus said to keep God's laws, and the first law is thou shalt not kill, and people still eat meat which kills animals.

Jesus said "Heaven and Earth are more likely to disappear then the universal laws." He also said, "Judge and you will be judged". "Condemn and be condemned". Why then do Christians continue to say that masters like Buddha are in hell?.. or anyone?.. not only are they condemning and judging, but they are ignoring the fact that any man who lives by God's laws are doing God's will.. THAT is God's will, and therefore, how can they be judged, belittled, or condemned. When you can follow these simple laws then you are in line with God; which we all contain.

It's not that religion is bad, it's just that so often people use it as an emotional clutch and forget their personal journey of true faith and obedience.

Oh, and I apologize if I didn't live up to some specified guidelines for this post or thread.

[kreagle]

Posted by Frogweaver (here)
I just have some things I want to write about the New Testament. It is normal of Christian followers to believe that other masters of 'enlightenment' are going to hell... and this contradicts everything Jesus meant to teach his followers; and follower means doing as he does, which most do not do, including:.. Jesus said to keep God's laws, and the first law is thou shalt not kill, and people still eat meat which kills animals.

Jesus said "Heaven and Earth are more likely to disappear then the universal laws." He also said, "Judge and you will be judged". "Condemn and be condemned". Why then do Christians continue to say that masters like Buddha are in hell?.. or anyone?.. not only are they condemning and judging, but they are ignoring the fact that any man who lives by God's laws are doing God's will.. THAT is God's will, and therefore, how can they be judged, belittled, or condemned. When you can follow these simple laws then you are in line with God; which we all contain.

It's not that religion is bad, it's just that so often people use it as an emotional clutch and forget their personal journey of true faith and obedience.

Oh, and I apologize if I didn't live up to some specified guidelines for this post or thread.

Frogweaver,

First of all, congratulations on your "3rd day" here on Avalon. Boy!,....you are "brand new", so-to-speak,.....and we all want you to feel "right at home" and I want to be one of the "very first" to wish you a long, long, fruitful journey, here, my friend!

Certainly, there is no need for you to even "begin to apologize", in that, you are perfectly "in line" with your comments and concerns.

Let me address just a "few" of them........

partial quote by you......

Jesus said to keep God's laws, and the first law is thou shalt not kill, and people still eat meat which kills animals.

It is certainly correct to say that "thou shalt not kill",.....which, in reality is the Sixth Commandment, and not the First. One needs to realize, though, that God made this law, (Commandment), in reference to "human life" and not from the viewpoint that we, humans, were not to eat meat. It is in "strict violation" of God's Law to take life, or kill, each other, as humans,....but we have His blessings when it comes to "killing animals", in order to have meat to eat.

The following "passages of Scripture" should help you to see this......


1) Genesis 1:29-30

2) Leviticus 11: 46-47

3) Acts 10: 9-16


(notice: I will be happy to "expound" on the above passages, for you, Frogweaver, if you need any further assistance about this.)

another partial quote by you........

Jesus said "Heaven and Earth are more likely to disappear then the universal laws." He also said, "Judge and you will be judged". "Condemn and be condemned". Why then do Christians continue to say that masters like Buddha are in hell?.. or anyone?.. not only are they condemning and judging, but they are ignoring the fact that any man who lives by God's laws are doing God's will..

You, quite frankly, are "completely correct", Frogweaver, when you plainly state that "Christians",...(whoever they might be),....are completely "out-of-line" when it comes to "them" taking on the role of a "judge". It's when "they" do this that "they" are, in all honesty, placing "themselves" in the role of being "the ultimate Judge", whether they fully recognize it, or not! God doesn't need any help being God,......He is fully capable of "filling this Office,.....all by Himself"!

Hence we have the Scripture that you have alluded to, here.......


Matthew 7:1-2
King James Version (KJV)

7 Judge not, that ye be not judged.

2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.


I'm afraid that too many "Christians",.....in their zeal to be God/Christ-like,....take things "entirely too far",.....and consequently are deceived into thinking that they are God, too, and are "ordained to judge, also"! This is a grave, grave, mistake!

I will respectfully submit, here, that we "all" better leave the "Office of God,....to God"!


Thank you, my dear friend, for your "valued input"!

I sincerely hope you will become a "regular", here on this thread!


Your friend, brother, and servant,.........kreagle

[kreagle]

Hey "everyone",

Just got through "reading and watching".......cloud9's thread on "Just another great story". What a "understatement" this is!

I have provided a link, in an effort to make sure "more of us" get to view this and be tremendously blessed.

Get ready to "have your heart tugged" and to "clear out your tear ducts", my dear friends!

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post541293


Your brother, friend, and servant..........kreagle

P.S. I have a "short comment" two posts down, (#3), on this great inspirational story. FYI

[Krullenjongen]

Posted by nurgle (here)
my concern is the bible has been rewritten though history to serve whatever the powers to be at the time were... different versions for whatever a person wants to believe or not believe in

They always ask evidence of us christians to support our belief in the bible and i don't mind giving it but to be fair i would like to see some evidence to support this statement.
It is said by many that the bible has been rewritten, where do these claims come from and what is te supporting evidence of this?

The fact is that there is more supporting evidence for the correctness of the bible than for any other ancient text. So if you doubt the correctness of the bible than you should never believe anything written in any other ancient text.
For this see: http://carm.org/manuscript-evidence
or this http://carm.org/evidence-and-answers

[Krullenjongen]

Posted by Frogweaver (here)
I just have some things I want to write about the New Testament. It is normal of Christian followers to believe that other masters of 'enlightenment' are going to hell... and this contradicts everything Jesus meant to teach his followers; and follower means doing as he does, which most do not do, including:.. Jesus said to keep God's laws, and the first law is thou shalt not kill, and people still eat meat which kills animals.

Jesus said "Heaven and Earth are more likely to disappear then the universal laws." He also said, "Judge and you will be judged". "Condemn and be condemned". Why then do Christians continue to say that masters like Buddha are in hell?.. or anyone?.. not only are they condemning and judging, but they are ignoring the fact that any man who lives by God's laws are doing God's will.. THAT is God's will, and therefore, how can they be judged, belittled, or condemned. When you can follow these simple laws then you are in line with God; which we all contain.

It's not that religion is bad, it's just that so often people use it as an emotional clutch and forget their personal journey of true faith and obedience.

Oh, and I apologize if I didn't live up to some specified guidelines for this post or thread.

Thou shalt not kill
There is a big misunderstanding about the commandment "Thou shalt not "kill" (even among christians)
This commandment does NOT mean that you may not take someone's life under any circumstance, it is not the blanket statement that many make it out to be.
Just think about it for a minute.....
How can God say "thou shalt not kill" and a bit later command the jews to go to war agains people in the promised land???
That just doesn't make any sense.
The commandment "thou shalt not kill" is therefor sometimes translated with "Thou shalt not murder" which makes the text much clearer and covers better the meaning of this commandment.
The commandment is about Unlawwfull killing resulting in bloodguilt!
In this case Wiki does a nice job in explaining this.
See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You_shall_not_murder

Next to this argument i totally subscribe to Kreagle's words that the commandment is a rule among man and does not apply to man and animals. Otherwise God would again go against Himself because earlier He said people were allowed to eat animals.


Judgement
I don't think any christian should say that someone is in hell becuase you can never know this for sure.
You never know what this person did or did not do in his life or even the last moments of his life.
As we know there is always forgiveness if someone repents and genuinely asks Jesus for it.
So we will simply have to wait and see.

The topic of judgement is not straitforeward either.
Judgement has to do with punishment. If you judge someone this implies that you have decided that a person should be punished. And this is not the place of man but this task is only reserved for God.
I also believe this is so because rightfull judgement can only be spoken by someone who knows and sees everything, and only God sees and knows everything.
But does this mean that i can't make a judgement about what someone is doing???
If someone is lying and i would say "you are lying" is this a judgement? and am i allowed to do this? i think so!
I think we are talking here about discernment.
If i say you are lying it does not include a punishment it is just a factual observation and not a judgement.
God said in his commandment "thou shalt not murder" if i see someone kill someone else in cold blood why can't i say that person is a murderer?

Don't know how to explain it better, i hope you get my point.
If it is not clear than just ask away!

Krullenjongen

[Pam]

You also appear to have developed an admiration for the concept of "reincarnation".

First of all welcome Seeker 1972 I appreciate your heartfelt comments. I would like to get past the intellectualism of the scriptures for a minute. I too have studied the bible in the past so I am not ignorant of it..What I would like us to use our god given logic for a minute...Do you really want to worship a god that gives you one chance to figure everything out in this hellhole of civilization or you are going to hell?????? The more important question is do you want to be a worshiper of a tyrant who would do that? And one more thing-Does an all powerful god really want worship and adoration...What would you think of a mere human that had those requirements??I would call him a psychopath...This is not meant to be disrespectful but all the intellectual tearing apart of these verses reminds of of the Pharisee's of old.

[nurgle]

They always ask evidence of us christians to support our belief in the bible and i don't mind giving it but to be fair i would like to see some evidence to support this statement.
It is said by many that the bible has been rewritten, where do these claims come from and what is te supporting evidence of this?

The fact is that there is more supporting evidence for the correctness of the bible than for any other ancient text. So if you doubt the correctness of the bible than you should never believe anything written in any other ancient text.
For this see: http://carm.org/manuscript-evidence
or this http://carm.org/evidence-and-answers

One example of a rewrite/translation is a big one, the King James Bible.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_james_bible

You can watch the TV Series the Tudors, and see how King Henry stretched religion to fit his marrying needs. I know the show is a fictionalized non-fiction but still the main ideas are there.

But I state again.....
Believe in what ever you like, I have no authority to judge, believe in whatever makes you stay positive and feel better.