Tony Nicklinson denied the right to die - please sign his petition

[Tarka the Duck]

Posted by 9eagle9 (here)
Belladonna and someone with a pair.

Yes, if you or I were in this situation, there is nothing we wouldn't do to carry out out the wishes of our loved one regardless of consequences.
We nursed my mum who was in the same state as Tony Nicklinson for 2 years -unable to speak or move through contracting motor neurone disease (ALS) and if she had asked us to assist her in dying, we wouldn't have hesitated. We spoke about this with her, and I know it was a comfort for her to know that if her suffering became unbearable, there was a way out.

BUT this appeal is on behalf of those who do not "have a pair". This is not about us.
We can't expect everyone to possess the necessary courage. Or even to have friends or family to ask for such help.
This is about physician assisted suicide.

There needs to be a change in the law.

Please sign the petition!

[9eagle9]

If we are waiting for 'them' to let us know its okay to die, we are defeating the purpose of our death.

Okay I can agree the man does not have any means of ending his own life, unless he stops taking in water or nutrients, which he can stop doing, so then it is left up to those who will do it for him.

I didn't not sign the petition but I'm very aware of the precedent we are reinforcing here. There is a deeper underlying matter that actually does effect us all.

[Tarka the Duck]

Sorry, 9 - I'm not quite getting the point of your argument, other than saying it's within the powers of "those" to do it for him. Yes, he has a family - what of those who are alone in the world and don't have anyone to ask?

May I ask why you didn't sign his petition? And what is the precedent? And what do you see as the underlying matter?

Meanwhile, as we discuss, people continue to be denied the ultimate freedom of choice.

[Maia Gabrial]

I won't sign the petition because that would be admitting that the authorities have the right over Nicklinson's own sovereignty and free will. They don't have to live with the diminished life as he does. They don't have to pay the outrageous bills to take care of him. HE has the right to decide what's right for himself and HE will have to account for his decisions and actions before GOD and no one else....

[Tarka the Duck]

Thanks for your thoughts Maia Gabriel. Could I ask you for a little clarification?

Isn't the whole point of signing the petition about taking a stance to reclaim individual sovereignty and free will?

And they DO pay the bills - we have the NHS here in the UK that pays for everything. Equipment, care, medication and treatment is all funded by the state.

You say he has the right to decide...maybe you have misunderstood what he is trying to do here. His appeal is centred around the fact that he is saying he has the right to decide

For me, signing that petition was a way to tell Tony Nicklinson that I care about him as an individual - not just about a cause or an impersonal principle.

[Maia Gabrial]

I meant that the petition is like BEGGING THEM to let him choose what he wants for himself. Sorry, if I didn't say what I meant. I'm so frustrated by all the invasions of govt in our lives. I'm at the point where I want to scream. Our lives are OURS not theirs... They should have NO SAY in this....

Another point I was trying to make is that in the US, we don't have national healthcare. A person is SOL if they don't have insurance. And if they do, sooner or later it runs out....Again SOL....

[Möbius]

As far as I'm concerned the Nursing Home Industry is corrupt to the core. It is run by either government or privately owned businesses. The private owners and the Pharmaceutical companies both benefit by keeping the patient alive as long as possible for the main aim of asset stripping the patient’s estate for profit whereas the government run homes just benefit the Pharmaceutical Industry by using tax payers money to pay for the prolonged death.

Private homes business plan: Charge >£1,000 per week, Pump them full of life prolonging drugs using cheap badly trained foreign Nurses to administer the drugs and to look after the patient – Outcome: Patient unknowingly being raped of assets; Care home getting nice fat profits, Drug companies getting nice fat profit all coming from the patients estate….

The government run home’s plan: Charge the tax payer >1,000 per week, Pump them full of life prolonging drugs using cheap badly trained foreign Nurses to administer the drugs and to look after the patient – Outcome: Drug companies getting nice fat profits paid for by the tax payer….

Allowing people to die in a dignified way affects their business plan and their profits. Judges will never rule in favour of a dignified death when they are all part of the same “Keep them alive for as long as possible and strip all of their assets for profit” team.

Mobius

[Tarka the Duck]

Thanks for the thoughts, Möbius - I concur from my limited experience. I think it's most peoe have a deep fear of ending up in one of these places...especially if they have no family nearby to keep an eye on things. But could we please not follow this track on this particular thread as it's not relevant in Tony Nicklinson's case as he lives at home and is cared for by his family.

@Maia Gabriel
Thank you for the further exlanation, and I see now where you are coming from. I know just what you mean, and I feel the same frustration...

But. At the risk of flogging a dead horse here if I was in Tony's situation, to hear people giving the reason for not supporting his appeal as not wanting to be seen to beg "them" for our basic human rights would, to be honest, make me cry.

Yes, we all need to fight this oppression. That this the big picture - but we can also work at the other end of the scale, on the coal face itself. This is one way of doing that, and Tony is in the unenviable, horrific and rare position of being able to have his voice heard out there.

I still can't get my head around those who feel their matters of principle are more important than offering their support to a suffering individual RIGHT NOW!

[Tony]

The problem is people do not have the ability to care or empathise. They may go through the act of caring, but they have the pleasure of going home to relax.
Caring and empathising is not a financial question, it is spiritual. Either loving thy neighbour as thy self, or more then thy self.

People in glass houses should not throw stones.

We have the pleasure of mouthing off on a forum about what we think, and then turn off the computer. Very few people care about others, but they do care about what 'they' think!

Let's be honest, we are all stuck in this pyramid of illusions.

[Marsila]

Tarkka this is such a tough subject that a lot will 'run away' from, as I wish there was a way to end his suffering not his life.

It is tragic that the only way to end his suffering is to end his life. I wish there was another solution so that his last day on Earth in this form, is one he enjoyed not one he couldn't wait to get out of.

Having said all that, i had a friend who passed away from leukemia two weeks ago. He died soon after his chemotherapy started, and as saddened as i was i found myself saying 'thank god he didn't go through chemo and all the suffering that would cause to his body and mind'

Tony Nicklinson has the right to decided his own fate, without permission from others. But us who aren't suffering also should look for any possible way to at least lessen his suffering until he gets what he wants. If signing a petition for a moral boost at least is a way....so be it.

[shijo]

im at a loss for words about this matter K athie, i will go sign the petition. Regards Shijo.

[Tarka the Duck]

Posted by shijo (here)
im at a loss for words about this matter K athie, i will go sign the petition. Regards Shijo.

Exactly, Shijo! Thank you for simplifying this issue! K

[Tarka the Duck]

Tony Nicklinson died today, from pneumonia. Wow. He is free.

Tony Nicklinson, who failed in his high court bid to be allowed to end his life with the help of a doctor, has died just six days later, his lawyers said. He had been refusing food since the verdict, but contracted pneumonia and "went downhill quickly", they said.

Wiltshire police said they were not involved and it is believed the death was from natural causes.

In a brief statement, Bindmans LLP said Nicklinson, from Melksham, Trowbridge, died on Wednesday morning at home.

"This is to notify you of the sad death of Tony Nicklinson at approximately 10am this morning," the law firm said.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/au...?newsfeed=true

[Corncrake]

How tragic for his family to watch him die like this - no food and then pneumonia. They knew it was his choice and must be relieved for him that it was fairly quick and is now all over but it still should not have had to happen this way. RIP Tony.

[nearing]

Starvation IS one way he had to control his death. Yes it most likely wasn't painless, but there are much more painful ways to go. He did the right thing because it's far better to ask forgiveness than ask for permission from the damn government.

I agree with 9eagle9.

I am glad his suffering is over.

[conk]

Starvation is a horrible death. RIP dear man, you are no longer locked in.

[Tarka the Duck]

Now Tony Nicklinson has obtained the freedom denied to him by outdated laws.

If anyone wishes to honour his courage and support his determination to change these archaic laws, you might like to have a look at the Dignity in Dying website. Tony's fight - and that of others in similar situations, will continue.

http://www.dignityindying.org.uk/

There is a proposal for a new bill on assisted dying to be put before parliament next year in the UK.

In reply to those who say to push for a change in law is tantamount to begging to those who hold the power...HELLO! Welcome to the "real" world! Like it or not, we all come under the laws of the country where we live. If we feel strongly that a particular law is wrong, outdated, unjust etc, one way to get that changed is to speak up. To fight. Because things CAN and DO change if enough people act - if I didn't believe that, I would give up.

By keeping quiet, you are condoning inaction and the status quo, regardless of the reasons you may offer. If you're happy with that, fine.

But my conscience doesn't allow me to keep quiet when I have been touched so deeply and personally by this issue.

[778 neighbour of some guy]

Hope he liked Randy. this one is for you Tony.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=VdM3NHDU7Mk

For those interested............. there is a book called............. Butterflies in a diving suit............, perhaps something you could give a read. Its Beautiful.
Vlinders in een duikerspak

[Tarka the Duck]

I truly hope that times they are a-changing…

The laws on assisted dying are "ridiculous" and "appalling", according to a newly promoted health minister.
Anna Soubry, who was appointed parliamentary under secretary at the Department of Health in this week's reshuffle, called for greater "honesty" about when prosecutions would be brought for helping relatives to die and said the legislation needed to evolve.
Her comments on euthanasia come after Tony Nicklinson, who had locked-in syndrome, died a week after he lost a court case to end his life with a doctor's help.
Soubry said: "You can't say to a doctor or a nurse you can kill this person," she told The Times. But she said that it was "appalling" that the terminally ill who needed help to end their lives had to go abroad. "I think it's ridiculous and appalling that people have to go abroad to end their life instead of being able to end their life at home," she said.
"The rules that we have about who we don't prosecute allow things to happen but there's a good argument that we should be a bit more honest about it."
Assisting someone to die can carry a sentence of up to 14 years' imprisonment.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/20...ulous-minister