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Thread: split from Horus-Ra thread: discussion of conduct on that thread

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    Default Re: split from Horus-Ra thread: discussion of conduct on that thread

    from WM:
    Quote There is serious work to be done in the world. And time is short.
    Will somebody please pm me when they have solution to put forth.....thanks, from the outskirts.

    Quote Posted by another bob (here)
    Quote Posted by gooty64 (here)
    Aren't we in an emergency situation?
    Not really -- we've done this dance more times than we can count, each time with a slight variation to keep it interesting and entrain our attention for one more round. When it ceases to seduce and lure us in any longer, when the kindergarten playground we take to be "our world" no longer can accomodate our growing level of awareness, we'll be ready to move up to a more engaging theater of fun and mirrors. Woo Yay!


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    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
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    Default Re: split from Horus-Ra thread: discussion of conduct on that thread

    -------

    I'm willing to share the PMs I sent to 9eagle9 before the public message to her I posted here. (I wrote them, so they are mine to share.)

    She was unsubscribed for two weeks, by my own unilateral decision, because she did not change her behavior.

    She was (a) warned (when she dumped on the Acknowledgments thread, which has earned more thanks per post than any of the 44,350 other threads so far), and (b) reprieved for similar offenses when she clashed unendingly with viking. viking was banned for 7 days for his immature provocation (which 9eagle9 was unable to ignore) -- and the mods, after a long debate, decided that 9eagle9 should not be banned, but that I would write to her again.

    Which I did. Read below. It didn't make much difference.

    You have to understand that we're dealing with someone who has anger and defiance issues, and is unable to deal with them herself. This is the bottom line. I will throw her out if she continues to be a bully, spraying unmoderated invective around simply to self-medicate her own unbalance.

    If she really does have guts, let's see her making revelatory videos on YouTube or opening up a blog under her real name. Being a forum bully is easy. That doesn't take any courage at all. Nancy, ask your husband what real courage is. I'm sure he'll tell us.

    ***

    Below is the first message I wrote her, after she posted the following on the Acknowledgments thread. I deleted (but saved) the post.

    Excuse me folks, brief commercial interruption here.

    Well Fred didn't I recently describe to you on Avalon Chat WHY I'm not participating in this thread. And to a few other members as well who have enough integrity to recall , most recently, why I was not participating in this thread without backpedaling away from it.

    If you don't remember I could very well go back and retrieve that time and date stamped discussion to jar your memory if you decide to backpedal away from recollection of my remarks.

    And now you see for your own eyes. I always say people provide their own evidence to back up what I say and here we are again.

    Why I knew better to touch what I'm sure was a well intentioned thread initiated by Bill is pretty much emphasized by the creation of that video.

    A number of people have attempted to drag me in here, and I have declined, out of respect for that Bill's intention,knowing how some disgruntled parties would find some reason to take those well intentions and twist it to air their inane and petty grievances in some fashion or another.--more than likely using my presence as an excuse to get their knickers in a bind.

    I can only hazard a guess as to what our emotionally disenfranchised would have come up with if I had made previous participation.

    Knowing full well our drama queens would take this well intentioned thread, as an opportunity to dramatize their personal grievances. After Dennis' last well documented diatribes about me, I extraordinarily doubt this product of playing in one's one emotional ****, is meant to be flattering.

    To the creator of this video: Neither was I contacted about using my forum representation, or were you given permission to use my forum representation to play in your own ****.

    Gripreaper, although it is not my place to apologize for attaching you to this matter ,and I have no idea how your name got mangled up in this, I realize I am very self determined person and some people do not like having others attaching themselves to my energy anymore I like being attached or drug into this sort of petty inane energy. If a drama is not provided they will find a way to create one, and again this provides its own evidence of where I am often coming from.

    If you were not party to this, I am very sorry that you got used and drug into the personal grievances of Dennis and Company. If you were party to this , well I'm sorry to hear it but there's that saying about lying down with dogs.

    And you too Bill, I really did stay away just to avoid circumstances like this. I have made that known to several members on the day you first initiated this post. I often do not thank posts or attempt to communicate with your personally because the fall out on my end of things for simply having you thank one of my posts is just stupid and unnecessary. I really just don't want to be a party to feeding that energy.

    I suppose the Drama Queens will have their due one way or the other.

    Moderation. My representation will be removed from the video, otherwise I request that you take it down entirely.

    There now you are a given a choice in the matter that I was not given.

    Or at the very least remove it from this thread where it is entirely unwarranted and give its own personal space, and (you don't even have the excuse of saying my presence in this thread prompted you to air your inability to manage yourself...which is your usual excuse), and post it elsewhere and since someone desperately wants my attention, I will address it where it is more appropriate for me to give it the sort of eagle eyed vision that it deserves and disembowelment that it requires. And know that I have every right to make comment on it and the other representations you have chosen to poise in your creation since you have opened the door and invited me in. You certainly can't say its none of my business now that you've made it my business.

    You have a choice now. Choose wisely. If you do not, that choice, will come back to bite you in the arse.

    For the rest of you, thank you for your patience, and carry on in the vane in which this thread was intended and not in the vane in which our drama queens would like to twist to fulfill their need for drama.

    You want acknowledgement. There is it.

    I deleted the post, removed Dennis's video, and wrote her the following.

    9eagle9, I have acknowledged you personally and genuinely on this and other threads. I respect your intelligence, experience and passion. I know that you get some things very right.

    But here, you have it very wrong. And I'll say this straight, in the kind of semantics that you may understand and respect:

    If you project your unresolved and unaddressed personal anger around on a thread like this -- one which has generated a huge amount of genuine good feeling in a really valuable community -- I will personally throw you out.

    And that is without a mods vote. I get to do that sometimes.

    If you want to challenge me, just watch me delete your account. It will take me between 30 and 45 seconds. You have attempted to disrespect not only myself, but everyone who has posted on the thread. That is not okay.

    I am writing to you like this because I think you will understand. I repeat (and this is sincere): I respect you, and I admire your passion and many of your insights, which are spot-on. You belong here. If we were neighbors, I believe we would be good friends. But here, you stepped over the line.

    I do not want you to leave -- and I have told the mods that in previous discussions. But I am always able and willing to change my mind.

    With my sincere best wishes (and this is not meant in sarcasm) -- Bill

    She thanked me for my honesty, justified her post, and said (my paraphrase) that if she left, her role would only be replaced by someone else.

    Next, she entered into a long spat with viking. The two of them traded cheap insults until it got boring and disruptive. Some of the mods wanted to ban them both for 7 days to cool off. I opted to write to 9eagle9 instead:

    Dear 9eagle9:

    When a forum issue arises, the mods open a new thread in their own section.

    Usually, these threads are closed after a few posts. The latest, about the spat between you and viking, lasted for 3 days, 5 pages and 84 posts. We decided to give viking a 7 day ban. His immature provocation of you was unacceptable.

    There was some discussion (intelligent, measured, and requiring us to trawl through many posts) about whether the 7 days should also extend to you. We came to the opinion that it should not.

    It's not an easy job being a mod on the forum. I do very little, but the rest of the team are heroic in their commitment: not only to do what they can to maintain this as the highest quality forum on the internet, but to be fair.

    You come up for discussion quite often. You're intelligent, honest to a fault, experienced, passionate, articulate, sometimes very witty, and are clearly an exceptional human being measured on a number of counts.

    You have integrity: that means that what you believe, what you say, and how you act are all in alignment.

    In short, we value you. This is sincere. In my last message to you about your response to Dennis' video (to which I believe you over-reacted, posting your feelings in an inappropriate place), I meant every word I wrote. You're respected, appreciated and valued by the mods and many others. I hope this is evident.

    The place would be poorer without your presence. The forum is designed for people like yourself. And you also help make it what it is.

    All that said, what I want to ask you is this. Please find a way to self-moderate yourself more effectively. If you can moderate the way you express yourself, then we'll be able to spend our limited, unpaid time doing stuff that's more productive to many more people.

    The latter is of concern to us. There's a lot of quiet stuff that we can easily miss (like taking the time to welcome new members, positively reinforcing people, and redesigning the forum interface) because we're busy attending to squeaking wheels that are making a lot of noise. You are quite high-maintenance (this PM will have taken me 45 mins to write, and I have plenty of other things to do!). But I care enough to want to do it.

    I wrote on the private mods thread about yourself and viking that for me, you pass the desert island test. If we were stuck on a desert island, I have the feeling I could count on you. There are other members about whom I wouldn't say quite the same thing. I write this seriously. This is one form of the highest praise I can come up with about a person.

    Here's a different formulation of what I ask you.

    You have enough maturity and knowledge of human nature to understand why people react to your strong statements. As Gandhi rightly said, we have to be the change we want to see in the world. If you agree that the challenge before us is for billions of very diverse humans to co-exist without war (global or personal), injury or destruction, respecting each others' differences while finding ways to work together for the common good, this has to start with smaller societies such as the forum. We HAVE to be that change.

    What this means is that if someone irritates the h*** out of you at a supermarket checkout, you don't pull out a gun and shoot them. You may say something pointedly that alerts the person that their behavior is unacceptable, but the purpose of this is NOT to self-medicate and feel better having expressed oneself openly -- it's to make the situation better and persuade the miscreant that they might have something to learn.

    The test each time is whether our own personal intervention makes the world a better place, or simply creates one more injury to someone who has already suffered too much. And it's that personal suffering that causes us each to act unwisely. One challenge before the human race is how to reverse that massive inertial wheel of continued, damaging, cause-and-effect.

    The greatest people and the greatest souls have all managed to access empathy and understanding under the greatest provocation. That's what we ask you to do. Take it easy. Make good use of this place. Many respect you. And if some a**hole is irritating you beyond all measure, then be thankful that they are not your actual physical neighbor, look the other way, and use the Ignore button.

    With my sincere good wishes -- Bill

    It made no difference. 9eagle9 sent a brief reply to the effect that the would attempt to self-moderate. She told me (my paraphrase) that flattery would not affect her.

    We then watched to see what would happen next. Her unawareness of her effects on others continued almost immediately. She started to dominate the Horus-Ra thread, and the energy there changed. I was not willing to see that happen.

    Her two week ban is, in a way, a taste of her own medicine. I can play her game (hitting her over the head with a big stick), if she won't play any other way. I can do the hardball thing if I feel it's called for. Ironically, that's one way in which 9eagle9 and I are similar. The difference is that she has no other way.

    I'm now not willing to give this any more attention. I have many better things to do... and my guess is that you, reading this, do also.

    This is part of the point. There's quite a degree of energy-vampirism and attention-seeking going on here, and it's a huge waste of time and energy. This is another aspect of how 9eagle9 is being used (by other forces, eager for all these energy-sucking opportunities) which she herself has not been able to see. She's being used.

    Several other forum members have previously found themselves in this grip: they are no longer here. Next we'll see if 9eagle9 will learn, or whether her ego will justify all she is and has ever done -- which has been the predominant pattern so far.
    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 21st August 2012 at 13:02.

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    Default Re: split from Horus-Ra thread: discussion of conduct on that thread

    "Random Thoughts on Sharing Insights"

    If I am impatient with another’s lack of knowledge, then that is my symptom. If I am annoyed, and say the same words over and over in louder octaves, that’s a sign of my laziness to tap into higher creativity of thought.

    Why do I continue to express? Because there may be others that are ready for what I’ve come to understand. Knowledge shared is received in waves or levels for we are all unique individuals. It’s an opportunity for me to tap into a deeper creative space for another way to exchange insights. And I grow in my delivery style.

    Teacher is the student. If a teacher does not consider herself to be a student of the Student, then I want no part of the exchange. We are all here to learn from one another. And by combining our unique parts to this grand scheme - there’s gonna be some mighty fine fireworks as this evolutionary phase finishes with high-fives and victory lapses.

    Knowledge shared with compassion, patience, and genuine caring is an opportunity for a 'welcome home' message to awaken the DNA to Who We Are.
    Last edited by RunningDeer; 21st August 2012 at 13:21.

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    Default Re: split from Horus-Ra thread: discussion of conduct on that thread

    from Bill's post, & this will be my only comment re 9eagle9:

    'This is part of the point. There's quite a degree of energy-vampirism and attention-seeking going on here, and it's a huge waste of time and energy. This is another aspect of how 9eagle9 is being used (by other forces, eager for all these energy-sucking opportunities) which she herself has not been able to see. She's being used.'

    i agree that 9eagle9 is being used -- when i was posting on the forum the last time i was here, some months ago, i enjoyed & appreciated her posts -- when i came back, i actually wondered to myself what had happened to her, why the tone of her posts had become so hostile & aggressive to others

    & do we really need 'shock ' & 'big stick' therapy for abductees, who have not requested this ? [this abductee had never even heard of this bizarre 'therapeutic modality' till i began getting some of it] -- isn't that a part of the 'old paradigm,' one that many members say they want to see replaced by a new one?

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    Default Re: split from Horus-Ra thread: discussion of conduct on that thread

    Quote Thanks for offering to show us your communications with 9eagle but since they were apparently private to you, I would only want to see them if she wanted that to happen. I know you've done what you think is best and I respect you for that and agree that you have every right to do it.
    This statement you made Nancy V. makes sense to me and sounds fair-imho.

    This discussion seems a bit lop-sided without the consent of all parties and without the presence of each of them, considering the discussion is about them -imho.

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    Default Re: split from Horus-Ra thread: discussion of conduct on that thread

    Quote Posted by WhiteCrowBlackDeer (here)
    "Random Thoughts on Sharing Insights"

    If I am impatient with another’s lack of knowledge, then that is my symptom. If I am annoyed, and say the same words over and over in louder octaves, that’s a sign of my laziness to tap into higher creativity of thought.

    Why do I continue to express? Because there may be others that are ready for what I’ve come to understand. Knowledge shared is received in waves or levels for we are all unique individuals. It’s an opportunity for me to tap into a deeper creative space for another way to exchange insights. And I grow in my delivery style.

    Teacher is the student. If a teacher does not consider herself to be a student of the Student, then I want no part of the exchange. We are all here to learn from one another. And by combining our unique parts to this grand scheme - there’s gonna be some mighty fine fireworks as this evolutionary phase finishes with high-fives and victory lapses.

    Knowledge shared with compassion, patience, and genuine caring is an opportunity for a 'welcome home' message to awaken the DNA to Who We Are.
    This post sparked a memory in me, I wrote this a couple of years ago on my own blog;

    "To become a great teacher one must first and foremost become a great student, and always remain a great student."

    A frustrated and aggressive teacher and or student often times frustrates or agitates the whole classroom (or most of the classroom).

    This 9eagle9 situation is what it is, whats done is done; (until the next time)

    ADDED: Besides, there are more important life shattering issues we need to be more concerned about. Like this!

    Prince Harry gets wet and wild with Olympics swimming champion Ryan Lochte and a bevy of bikini clad beauties at boozy Las Vegas pool party
    http://www.nydailynews.com/entertain...icle-1.1140872

    Last edited by SilentFeathers; 21st August 2012 at 14:20.
    SilentFeathers

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    Default Re: split from Horus-Ra thread: discussion of conduct on that thread

    Bill,
    You've posted your thumbnail psychological profile of 9eagle9 thereby influencing others with your words and position. Was it your intention to deliberately damage her reputation or direct others' opinions about her? Will you be doing this to other members?

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    Default Re: split from Horus-Ra thread: discussion of conduct on that thread

    Quote Posted by Heartsong (here)
    Bill,
    You've posted your thumbnail psychological profile of 9eagle9 thereby influencing others with your words and position. Was it your intention to deliberately damage her reputation or direct others' opinions about her? Will you be doing this to other members?
    Sorry, but, unbelievable.

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    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
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    Default Re: split from Horus-Ra thread: discussion of conduct on that thread

    Quote Posted by Heartsong (here)
    Bill,
    You've posted your thumbnail psychological profile of 9eagle9 thereby influencing others with your words and position. Was it your intention to deliberately damage her reputation or direct others' opinions about her? Will you be doing this to other members?
    Did you also read all the positive things I wrote in private, and then reposted in public? If you suspect I'm cheaply trying to damage her reputation, you may need to read again everything I wrote.

    It would have been the easiest thing to banish her totally, yet I didn't do that. I even voted against the ban on her when viking was banned for a week. I want her to remain a part of the forum.

    But I also want her to be more aware and responsible in what she says and how she says it. She didn't get the message at first, so I'm repeating it more clearly here.

    What I'm doing is explaining a decision and reinforcing how the forum works, while casting a little transparency on the huge amount of time spent discussing issues like this behind the scenes. The moderators all care immensely about every single person here. And the key words here are every single person. Not just one person, who sometimes steals the limelight.

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    Default Re: split from Horus-Ra thread: discussion of conduct on that thread

    I personally find character assassination once a person is on vacation as a cheap shot. I think when someone gets baited over and over by a select crew on PA, and they finally have had enough, then sometimes the "tone" changes. It has been my direct experience that there is a crowd here on PA that gets away with a lot of cheap shots, accusatory messages about a member and that member's motives etc. which the mods do nothing about and then when someone finally does offer the poo flung at them back to the flingers, suddenly the situation is "negative" and must be dealt with. Occasionally, one of the flingers gets a vacation, but to me, this is ridiculous. This is about people claiming things, accusing, creating a ****storm behind the scenes, reporting certain people constantly and whining. The funny thing is, she probably won't be back, and someone will either fill the void or we will see a repeat of what happened on another forum recently where the very people who seemed so upset by certain members like 9Eagle9, suddenly started turning on themselves for their drama fixes.

    I post here off an on now, but for me, having my own blog, and interacting elsewhere does have it's rewards. I have enjoyed getting to know some really great members here, but as I've been a part of PA since I think 2008, I've watched some amazingly brilliant people disappear because open discussion and sacred cow topics of some cannot be examined. This forum appears to be turning into a guru worshiping new age following don't ask questions arena, and that to me is not a good thing. There are still some great members and interesting threads, but they are becoming fewer and fewer in content and openness or feeling like one can even express their views without getting the "treatment".

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    United States Avalon Member Whiskey_Mystic's Avatar
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    Default Re: split from Horus-Ra thread: discussion of conduct on that thread

    Heartsong's concerns are legitimate and I am sure Bill weighed them against an attempt to benefit the overall community and heal some of the wound that this situation has caused in all of us. Bill has earned his reputation as a man of compassion and honor who acts for the highest good of all beings, so let's not imply otherwise, ok?

    In the past, many here have called for transparency after a mod action and Bill has generously given you that.

    Bill, thank you for sharing the email. I find no fault ( not that it is my place to judge) and appreciate your effort. I make no judgement, but hold space for the highest good to manifest.

    9eagle9, if you're reading this, a community that loves you awaits your return. Skype me any time.

    Best Regards,

    Whiskey


    (finger pecked from my iPhone on a bumpy commute train)
    Last edited by Whiskey_Mystic; 21st August 2012 at 15:50.
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    Default Re: split from Horus-Ra thread: discussion of conduct on that thread

    i was thinking about what it would be like to be a mod /admin on Avalon -- especially since i learned from Bill that you all volunteer for this work -- thank you

    what came to mind is a saying in MENSA --'Leading Mensans is like trying to herd a group of cats' -- perhaps one could substitute 'Avalonians' for 'Mensans'

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    Default Re: split from Horus-Ra thread: discussion of conduct on that thread

    I just stood back to look, I admit that as I stand back I must wonder just how much have we all have advanced, wondering how easy we are pulled into defending, deflecting, mirroring and ruminating on something that is truly incomprehensible from a point of view that seeks to comprehend.

    We have the capacity to hold space, to perceive a large amount of data, some contrary, some harmonious and some even unintelligible. I believe that our capacity is expanding. The moment that we are still inside we see. Simple. We comprehend. No agenda.

    State what you see, explain what you know, explore what you believe, and please by all means share your experiences, profess your freedom, divulge your knowledge, speak in volumes and speak in poetry, speak your mind, speak your heart, yes lets hear it all... nothing to hide, nothing to prove.

    But why, oh why do we take sides against each other, why do we accuse, why do we brandish our ignorance as intellect... why do we prod, implode, pressure to mold another to our beliefs. Our buttons are pushed and we claim someone else's buttons was pushed.

    This action taken by the Bill and discussed by the moderators was not about right and wrong, was not about judging the merits or deleterious traits of one member over another. We have a job, and as no one of us can read all the material, even if we cared to, we can only strive to reach a decision, the best one based on all the available data. We always try to reach what we feel is best for the community that is Avalon.

    And thankfully we do bring many different angles to the table and spread out our cards in full view. There is a dedication to truth and transparency, how the heck are we going to heal otherwise.

    Thanks once again to every dedicated person on this forum… !

    Christine

  22. Link to Post #74
    Avalon Member SKAWF's Avatar
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    Default Re: split from Horus-Ra thread: discussion of conduct on that thread

    oh god i can see this is going to go well......

    bill, i have seen many facets of 9eagle9's character.
    IME she is capable of expressing a quite gentle nature in some circumstances.

    (this post in fact this thread is like having every thread ive ever posted in, flash before my eye's)

    i agree with what you said in one of the first posts

    'You, and I, and everyone reading this, are all invisible. As spirits, we have no substance.
    The only way we can be directly perceived is through what we do. That is how we project our presence on the physical world. That's the only evidence for who we are and what we stand for.'

    my version is... my appreciation.... is the medium, through which i express myself.
    kinda like a projector, and a slide. or a facet.

    i know that 9eagle9 has many facets to her character.
    thats the nature of those that have found, and live in accordance with 'truth'

    i mean no disrespect to anyone here when i say this....
    i read a lot from people who only have the one facet.
    usually.... the mind.

    i can see where she's coming from in a lot of respects....
    it might appear that she's being abrasive sometimes..
    but how does one convey what are sometimes harsh realities...
    when one is wearing kid gloves?

    i remember reading, or watching something where someone said something like....

    you can tell someone what life was like in a communist prison, and they may say that it sounds bad.
    you could show them pictures of one, and that might say that they wouldnt like to be there
    you could take them to visit one that was closed down, and they might say how terrible life there must have been

    but it isnt until they feel a military boot up their jaxi, or a rifle stock hitting them on the back of the neck
    that they actually realise how bad it really was.
    sometimes a message is lost in the post when it is delivered to someone's comfort zone.

    there are always two extremes. obviously it would be cool if everyone got along
    but sometimes a measure of just how bad things are at the time....
    is if one is exposed to the other extreme, where things are really really bad.
    that seems to make the minor things pale into insignificance

    i cant agree with you though.... when you say that
    hitting people over the head with a stick.... is the only method she employs.

    thats not my experience of her.

    i dont know her that well.
    only from her words really,

    i personally find her to be one of the most facinating individuals ive met online.
    able to rabbit on about a whole range of subjects.

    the desert island test is a good one.
    mainly because its a longer term perspective
    and the extremity of the situation would bring out the most rock solid aspects of someones character.
    and like you, i couldnt apply that to many people.
    not just because they would do my head in,
    but because most of the people ive ever met dont have the strength of mind to cope with that kind of situation..

    erm.... that'll do for this post.

    cheers

    steve
    Last edited by SKAWF; 21st August 2012 at 16:17.
    when i went there nothing happened!, i was bored out of my mind..................in the Twilight Zone.

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  24. Link to Post #75
    Canada Avalon Member Daughter of Time's Avatar
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    Default Re: split from Horus-Ra thread: discussion of conduct on that thread

    Quote Posted by Heartsong (here)
    Bill,
    You've posted your thumbnail psychological profile of 9eagle9 thereby influencing others with your words and position. Was it your intention to deliberately damage her reputation or direct others' opinions about her? Will you be doing this to other members?
    I don't think 9eagle9's reputation has been damaged at all. Those who respected and valued her will continue to respect and value her when she comes back (I hope she does return) maybe even more than before since they will have missed her. Those who had problems with her, will continue to have problems with her if her acidic comments do not soften. I don't think any of her admirers will think less of her because of this discussion.

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  26. Link to Post #76
    United States Administrator ThePythonicCow's Avatar
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    Default Re: split from Horus-Ra thread: discussion of conduct on that thread

    Quote Posted by gooty64 (here)
    This discussion seems a bit lop-sided without the consent of all parties and without the presence of each of them, considering the discussion is about them -imho.
    There are two parties to discussions such as this ... the person who received the punishment (vacation or ban typically) and the "rest of us."

    The reason for this discussion on this thread is not to adjudicate the treatment of the one who is not here. That matter was already handled, in private.

    The reason for discussions like this is for the "rest of us", members and moderators, to continue the proper and ongoing discussion of how best to run this forum.
    My quite dormant website: pauljackson.us

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  28. Link to Post #77
    United States Avalon Member RunningDeer's Avatar
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    Default Re: split from Horus-Ra thread: discussion of conduct on that thread

    Redundant from what I've already posted.
    Last edited by RunningDeer; 23rd August 2012 at 03:03.

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    Avalon Member doodah's Avatar
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    Default Re: split from Horus-Ra thread: discussion of conduct on that thread

    Here is something to think about:

    Imagine the worst has happened, the CME has happened, there's no electricity, no modern world and never will be again, we're in whatever community we've ended up in if we didn't choose beforehand. What kind of community do we want in such a situation? We want one that can work together. That is going to be critical. Harmony in action would be a desirable goal, I would think, as opposed to the old top-down ego-driven arrangement.

    If we haven't all done our own personal work beforehand, we'd just be taking our garbage with us. From my point of view, that sounds pretty unpleasant, given the overwhelming issues of physical survival that would of necessity be dominant.

    I know some of you might not see the point of this post, but honestly every time I see the conflicts on Avalon -- which is such an unusual gathering of people -- I try to see how all these people might work together if they were in a community at the end of the world, so to speak.

    For (present and) future harmony, it might be a good idea to be getting some of these things straightened out with ourselves now, just in case.

    Peace and love to you all,
    ~ Doodah

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  32. Link to Post #79
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    Default Re: split from Horus-Ra thread: discussion of conduct on that thread

    Felt the need to stick my perspective in here at the moment. This is from someone that read about 4-5 pages in the late 80 range last night, which was about 90% 9E9 posts, 5% blank wyn posts (that she apparently removed?), a Bill post mentioning that he deleted some posts, and the rest mostly observer...that's as far as I got, plus about up to reaver's thoughts on this particular thread...here's my take for what it's worth:

    I was totally on board with almost everything 9e9 had to say (from around the time I started posting on the thread, no idea how far back that is...page 70 maybe?), she was dropping truth bombs I could totally relate to personally (I'm referring to pgs 80-90 or so, when wyn felt attacked), but until the middle of it in there somewhere I found some of it to be almost counter-productive. I can totally relate to the need to lose the victim-mentality, I personally needed a sledgehammer of truth crushing my pride when I was at rock bottom--and then to be kicked on top of it. And I wonder how many times that truth was given to me when I was still trapped in victim-mode--I am certain if i did then I took every one as a personal attack rather than the gift I should have recognized.

    So as much as I agreed with just about everything she had to say, it didn't sit well with me. It seemed she was only preaching to the choir (those that recognized their responsibility in their victimhood), the "victims" she was trying to wake up or teach or whatever could never get the message in the way it was intended. Maybe that is where humility comes in, and maybe the need for slightly more compassion. Because once I got to the post where she says something to the effect of: Victims cannot recognize their victimhood without being told--and used the analogy of not being able to cure yourself from cancer until you know you have cancer--then I was energized to read more, hoping that everyone it applied to could now assume what I was able to at that point. To me, that was enough of a "spoonful of sugar" to take the bitter medicine, but I wonder how many who took her posts as offensive or whatever even "heard" that.

    Because I personally hate to make assumptions. And it seems to me that for her to assume that her audience knew she felt that way, that victims are not to blame for not knowing they are being victims--until they learn it....it is hard to not take some of the stuff she said as attacks (if you are coming from victim mentality). Cuz what I was seeking from the thread, was ways of helping people see something SOOO hard to see in yourself. So many of her posts, I read as "blaming the victim for not recognizing they are a victim"...but only from the victim point of view--if that makes any sense. I feel I freed myself from most of the victim/denial mentality, so I could see where she was coming from...but I couldn't imagine that anyone not to that point in their self awareness would be able to get that.

    I agree with a lot of people, where if you read her every word you will not find much in the way of direct personal attacks, that almost everything she said is important truth and tough love, but without that HUGE assuption (which is not fair to do--you know what happens when you ASSume) that she recognizes how hard it is to "diagnose" it in yourself, it must come across as something other than she intended. It came across to me that she took the attitude that this me, take it or leave it, I will not try a different way to make you understand--you should just "get it"...so it seemed to lack compassion, even though taking all that time and effort and energy to share her truths proves how compassionate she is and how much she cares.

    Please note again, I am not completely up to speed...I don't know what was said beyond page 90 or so, I have no idea what was deleted. All of the above is my personal interpretation of the situation and what I BELIEVE, what I got out of...the thoughts shared by others--I do not mean to speak for anyone, especially not 9eagle9. And quite honestly, I have no idea if what I'm saying makes sense to anyone else...I learned a ton and valued her posts a lot...but did wyn's as well, and hated to see all those blank posts. I value every perspective I can get, but can totally see how some are hard for some people to take...just my lunch break ramblings....hopefully i'll get a chance to read and catch up (and edit my posts...sorry for any incoherency--but i gotta get back to the cracker factory...peace!

  33. Link to Post #80
    Avalon Member Lettherebelight's Avatar
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    Default Re: split from Horus-Ra thread: discussion of conduct on that thread

    Regarding forum conduct...

    I doubt that anyone has joined this forum to be criticised for their beliefs/values/views or whatever noun one would like use. We all have different views, our own spiritual-psychological perspectives. I don't think that needs to get in the way of a truly valuable exchange.

    There is a profound like-mindedness that has brought us together here, from all over the world. When I joined the forum, I hoped that no one would have a go at me for my beliefs (faith), because I have some very strong ones. i mostly try to keep them to myself because I know many others may not feel the same, and could be annoyed or disturbed by them. Somehow they slip out from time to time, but everyone (including 9E9!) has been kind and understanding. I am not an apologist for my faith, beliefs, they are my innermost realisations, forged over years, lifetimes. I hold them dear and expect others to respect them, as I will respect theirs. No one here on Avalon has ever let me down.

    I'm pretty sure most members here feel the same way about their ideas and realisations too?

    So it is this profound like-mindedness that has brought us to Avalon. It is my view that we should support one another, and if differences come up, we should, in the main, just agree to disagree. It's our shared beliefs which count and will make us a strong and positive on-line community.
    Last edited by Lettherebelight; 21st August 2012 at 20:16.

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