split from Horus-Ra thread: discussion of conduct on that thread

[SKAWF]

some people play on the compassionate nature of others.

surely if someone has gone through a bad experience , they should be shown compassion.
it will help them with the transition from one state, back into something approaching normal.

but life is hard.

for everyone.

at some point we have to stand on our own two feet,
like everyone else has to.

is there any difference between sympathy and compassion?

bad experiences are all relative. its the same 'feeling' underneath,
even if the road into it is different for each person.

along with sympathy and compassion, comes patience.

personally, i would be sympathetic to someone for so long,
and if i saw no movement from them,
no effort to get themselves together

if i saw that they would be quite happy to milk my sympathy for all it was worth.....

i would lose my patience.

then it becomes tough love

we each have a duty to ourselves to take response ability for our own lives

by constantly giving sympathy to those who have endured bad experiences,
IMO actually enables the victim mentality to establish itself in the mind of the abused.

i have seen it in this thread........
no doubt a few others have too.

steve

[Bill Ryan]

-------

Hi, All:

For anyone here who still may not fully understand my and this forum's position -- please read this post here. It's very important.

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post542558

You're welcome to continue to discuss the specifics of the issue of safety on the forum on this thread here. Please keep the Horus-Ra thread and the Clones and Hybrids thread (where this post started) on-topic. It's important to do that. Many thanks.

Let me say again: I will provide a safe space for these things to be discussed here.

This is non-negotiable. If anyone wants to throw cheap invective around at people who are honestly grappling with their personal involvement in these and other subjects, they're welcome to go to Above Top Secret or Godlike Productions.

[Unified Serenity]

This is probably my last reply on this issue because I don't think PA will change in regards to my perception of how threads get derailed and some members get the "treatment" by others who seem to get a pass for their rude and negative behavior towards a member whose opinions they don't like.

Let me say again: I will provide a safe space for these things to be discussed here.

This is non-negotiable. If anyone wants to throw cheap invective around at people who are honestly grappling with their personal involvement in these and other subjects, they're welcome to go to Above Top Secret or Godlike Productions.

It has been my experience that many times certain members such as 9Eagle9 and myself do not get a "safe space" to share our thoughts. I can be dealing with a topic and discussing my views of that topic only to have the same members jump in and start the character assassination, judgments about why I am here, rude comments and insults, and outright tell me to get off the forum. I ignored them for a long time in that I did not just return insult for insult, but pointed out they were attacking me or doing ad hominem or straw man arguments to derail my threads. These same people would follow me around the forum and it seemed there was even a group of them. They would use the thanks button and support outrageous attacks all while claiming they never say anything bad or make personal attacks, but where I am from, if you show support to someone who is rude to another then that's agreement and thus you are attacking through a proxy. I left Avalon for some time, and guess what? Those people who had not participated on that forum for a year or more suddenly showed up there and attacked me there as well.

I have seen more support of allowing for communication within the past couple of months, but how long have I been a part of PA? How many years have I dealt with what I will in an umbrella call liberal members attacking me because of my conservative viewpoints? Yes, it does very much feel like the left vs right methodology. Except there are a lot more mods who a liberals and thus they don't see it as an attack, they let these members say some pretty rude things, and then when I mirror it back, suddenly I am not keeping the peace and I have a bad attitude.

Whether or not I care for someone's style of delivering a message, I have no right to psychoanalyze them, ridicule them, or play games on their threads by derailing them over and over. I do have a sour taste in my mouth over this after so many years, and it appears to be a double standard here. If members really were not allowed to make personal attacks against other members then the mods should stop it immediately, and I would bet they would cease that behavior. But, it appears some like to play little games of basically seeing what they can get away with and still not get in trouble for it. Some even started threads where they might as well have taken my picture and put it in the title, and talked about their feelings about me, but hey, they never mentioned my name or 9eagle9's name, so it was like this glorious orgy of insults in one thread and anyone with two neurons to rub together knew who they were referring to. It's the same people who regularly take umbridge with my views and launch into their insults and "helpful" advice. Advice is only helpful when it comes from a heartfelt place of love and understanding, and not a place of "I'm going to give you some help sweetie (idiot) and while we are at it, why are you so ......... "(list of character attributes they don't like which is basically a nice way to throw insults at someone all in the guise of helping them).

Some members have me on ignore. They don't like my views or my method of posting and that is their right to do so. I think it's probably the best way to handle someone who you can't stand their style of communication. I have a handful on my ignore list as well because in the years I have been here, I don't find their comments particularly funny, entertaining, informative, or useful and rather than get my knickers in a wad even if they are responding to my post, I just don't read their comments anymore, it's useless, and no matter how rude they are, mods are not going to do anything about it when it comes to their little insults towards me.

So, while I admire your statement Bill, that you are going to keep PA a safe place for members to post, I don't think it is for some of us. By the very fruit that has grown and flourished here for some time, some members are given a lot more room to show their *** than others are. I have never enjoyed calling others names or making fun of them. It's not in my nature and no matter how much ooey gooey love and light some pretend to emanate, just let something I say bother them, and it's amazing how rude, insulting, divisive they become. I feel more and more, that it's time to tap the dust and move on, and I think I will.

[Bill Ryan]

----

Dear Unified Serenity -- let me say this in a different way again.

I understand the point about victim mentality: I really do. The point is (and forgive the caricature) that beating someone around the head who is complaining that they're a victim is not always likely to help them realize that they're anything else.

There are other ways. Empathy and compassion are among them. We should always all have carrots and sticks in our first aid toolkits. Note that in my last response to 9eagle9 I used a stick myself -- after the carrot failed.

Some people seem to only have sticks, and they don't always work. It's really a matter of practicality in the end.

[SilentFeathers]

I agree with much of what you say US....but always speak your truth!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! if someone doesn't like it, well, that is on them.

I will always speak my truth and if I get banned or ridiculed for it so be it.....BUT, I WILL NEVER FORCE my truth upon another. That's what many try to do and we see what can happen, it causes unnecessary conflict. I will also not tolerate another FORCING their truth upon me either.....I may respond or just walk away from insults or aggressive behavior .....very seldom will I ever engage in lengthy disputes over conflicting perceptions, that usually only ends up like a skipping record (remember the scratched record phonograph days?)

Speak your truth! if people refuse to listen, oh well.

PS: and for the ignore list thing, I think that is ridiculous.......if I'm constantly harassed here I'll just simply leave.....

[Sebastion]

Well Unified Serenity, I have observed it to be exactly what you have said in your last post and therefore agree. As far as your statement about tapping the dust, it reminded me of a line in a song which stated "I've been a long time leaving, but I'll be a long time gone". I think that deserves deeper consideration on my part.

[write4change]

Hi everyone, I am traveling across the states on route 40 and I am looking for a place to live that I can afford and that has the possibility for building and intentional community of consicous people. That has been my goal since I came on this site 18 months ago. I finally decided talking was never going to get it and to act on my own belief system.

The reason I am taking the time to write this at a McDonald's while I feel the need to get on the road again. Is the importance of answering the question of what would we do in and end of world as we know it situation with ourselves and with others. I think Avalon has been grappling with that question in many different ways since I came here. I was very naive when I came here and has grown much more internet aware since then.

I have read the entirety of this thread. I have been reading the Horous thread all to page 50 and then sections since then and intend to go back. But I have missed all of this.

I have had considereable contact with Eagle on the phone and she got me thru a tough space over a year ago. I will always love and respect her but I will never totally agree with her. I will get into a more detailed discussion of what has occured between Eagle and I later. I want to talk in more general terms now.

On Netflix there is a series called the Colony which is about an actual group of people trying to survive in Los Angeles after a major cataclismic event that is never defined. The secons season is another group trying to deal with an after Katrina enviornment in New Orleans. Both of these seasons are sponsored and commented on by experts from Homeland Security.

I had both of these recorded because some of the information in reality is priceless. How to actually build things like gathering car batteries about 12 wiring them up together and producing with integrating with solar energy some electricity etc. While this was my major reason for watching---I know I am mechanics poor---the interactions of the group and effectiveness of leadership was very eye opening. Neither group could ever choose what was best for the group but what "felt" best for the most people. Always the most knowlegable and qualified people and usually older (maybe my biasis) were not allowed to lead but only clean up and fix when things really got screwed up.

When I was 26, I was working on a Master's in psychology at San Francisco State. The in thing at that time was transactional analysis and setting up gestalts---which is some of what occurs in many threads here. When I was young and full of ego and brains without much experience, I was very good at "psyching" out what was really going on with the client in the " chair". I was so good that I stopped whatever work they were doing. What I learned from riding rough shod over their work not being done my way in my time is that no one can do their own work without acceptance of their way which then allows them to "see" more. Telling the "person in the chair" what is really happening when they are not ready or able to see it themself---stops the progress they are making. Thus, as a therapist I was so right that I was totally wrong. BTW. I got that I was a product of my training and my training and many of my teachers sucked at healing the human soul. I finished the Master's but never finished the clinical and never practicied as a psychologist because I got smart enough to know how much I did not know and would not learn this way.

Eagle has gotten much sharper over this last year and I think to the point she is out of balance. Does that mean I would not allow her to bash me with a stick? No, sometime I need a big wake up. Do I want her to stay? Absolutely. Is it time for a different kind of discussion -- definitely yes. Why? Because with knowledge and power and influrence come much responsibility. You cannot have one without the other because then they are just talking points.

What I know because I have been watching this specifically since March is that Eagle needs this break. She spends a lot of time here. She needs to see what that is really serving.

In several threads, we have both discussed horses, their training and their behavior. From Eagle I get that you tell them and you make them and you some what fear them. My horse experience is I study the animal and seeks its mind before I buy them. Then we share teaching and learning with respect. When it is time to jump and I am ready and I know they can feel that--I ask them to jump. For me, for us, for the joy of the jump and they always do. I started jumping at 55 and falling hurt bad. My horses never refused out and when I fell it was because I was not ready or I was not paying total attention to my environment.

Thanks for listening I will be back later to continue this discussion.

[Whiskey_Mystic]

Posted by wynderer (here)
such a species-centric species Humans are -- all this focus on one Human being as your planet is being nuked & trashed & being taken over by a hostile ET junta --score one for the archons

Every one of us holds the entire universe enfolded within us
And so perhaps every one of us is that important
And that insignificant.
After all, there is only One of us here.

[Christine]

Posted by Unified Serenity (here)
This is probably my last reply on this issue because I don't think PA will change in regards to my perception of how threads get derailed and some members get the "treatment" by others who seem to get a pass for their rude and negative behavior towards a member whose opinions they don't like.

Let me say again: I will provide a safe space for these things to be discussed here.

This is non-negotiable. If anyone wants to throw cheap invective around at people who are honestly grappling with their personal involvement in these and other subjects, they're welcome to go to Above Top Secret or Godlike Productions.

It has been my experience that many times certain members such as 9Eagle9 and myself do not get a "safe space" to share our thoughts. I can be dealing with a topic and discussing my views of that topic only to have the same members jump in and start the character assassination, judgments about why I am here, rude comments and insults, and outright tell me to get off the forum. I ignored them for a long time in that I did not just return insult for insult, but pointed out they were attacking me or doing ad hominem or straw man arguments to derail my threads. These same people would follow me around the forum and it seemed there was even a group of them. They would use the thanks button and support outrageous attacks all while claiming they never say anything bad or make personal attacks, but where I am from, if you show support to someone who is rude to another then that's agreement and thus you are attacking through a proxy. I left Avalon for some time, and guess what? Those people who had not participated on that forum for a year or more suddenly showed up there and attacked me there as well.

I have seen more support of allowing for communication within the past couple of months, but how long have I been a part of PA? How many years have I dealt with what I will in an umbrella call liberal members attacking me because of my conservative viewpoints? Yes, it does very much feel like the left vs right methodology. Except there are a lot more mods who a liberals and thus they don't see it as an attack, they let these members say some pretty rude things, and then when I mirror it back, suddenly I am not keeping the peace and I have a bad attitude.

Whether or not I care for someone's style of delivering a message, I have no right to psychoanalyze them, ridicule them, or play games on their threads by derailing them over and over. I do have a sour taste in my mouth over this after so many years, and it appears to be a double standard here. If members really were not allowed to make personal attacks against other members then the mods should stop it immediately, and I would bet they would cease that behavior. But, it appears some like to play little games of basically seeing what they can get away with and still not get in trouble for it. Some even started threads where they might as well have taken my picture and put it in the title, and talked about their feelings about me, but hey, they never mentioned my name or 9eagle9's name, so it was like this glorious orgy of insults in one thread and anyone with two neurons to rub together knew who they were referring to. It's the same people who regularly take umbridge with my views and launch into their insults and "helpful" advice. Advice is only helpful when it comes from a heartfelt place of love and understanding, and not a place of "I'm going to give you some help sweetie (idiot) and while we are at it, why are you so ......... "(list of character attributes they don't like which is basically a nice way to throw insults at someone all in the guise of helping them).

Some members have me on ignore. They don't like my views or my method of posting and that is their right to do so. I think it's probably the best way to handle someone who you can't stand their style of communication. I have a handful on my ignore list as well because in the years I have been here, I don't find their comments particularly funny, entertaining, informative, or useful and rather than get my knickers in a wad even if they are responding to my post, I just don't read their comments anymore, it's useless, and no matter how rude they are, mods are not going to do anything about it when it comes to their little insults towards me.

So, while I admire your statement Bill, that you are going to keep PA a safe place for members to post, I don't think it is for some of us. By the very fruit that has grown and flourished here for some time, some members are given a lot more room to show their *** than others are. I have never enjoyed calling others names or making fun of them. It's not in my nature and no matter how much ooey gooey love and light some pretend to emanate, just let something I say bother them, and it's amazing how rude, insulting, divisive they become. I feel more and more, that it's time to tap the dust and move on, and I think I will.

United Serenity,

You always make strong arguments, and quite often very valid one, this is your style and forte. I would just like to make one brief comment in the light of what we are discussing here. There is no way that we as a group can make decisions based on one persons perspective, the nature of community is, well just that community. Please consider that we may or may not be aware of what you are describing as blatant character assassinations or ad hominem attacks. We simply don't have the band width or inclination to go post by post reading every comment. We depend on members to shed light on what they feel is abusive and sometimes issues simply jump off the page at one or the other of us.

If you were privy to the back ground discussions and the enormous amount of time, care and consideration every single mod brings to every decision especially the hard ones you might possibly change your opinion that we are biased.

This is an incredibly astute, committed and spiritual group of people... not one of us claiming to have all the answers. The labels liberal, conservative or whatever are not part of the equation. In my short tenure it is clear that we all are striving to maintain a modem of harmonious interchange on the forum. After all we are all but mirrors for each other and we tend to see in others what we ourselves project.

Personally I get tremendous value from your posts and 9eagle9's as well as many others... Vivek, DOT, justoneman, Houman, Amzer Zo, Gripreaper, Limor, Ulli, the list is long. Even when I make personal judgements as of course I must, it is my experience that I can encompass a whole and therefore perform a job which is called moderator.

This I hold as my truth as you hold yours and that is where we can meet.

Thanks once again for all you contribute to PA, it does not go unnoticed, I mean that even at the risk you may think I am insincere.

Christine

[Whiskey_Mystic]

Unified Serenity,

Thank you for your excellent post.

I hear what you are saying and recognize that I myself have had kneejerk angry reactions to your point of view from time to time. (I have often admitted that I am a hot-head) I think there is indeed a lack of tolerance for what are traditionally considered "conservative" viewpoints. I think that many here see the warping of those viewpoints as well as the warping of "liberal" values to be the core of the problem. These value systems have been twisted and used against us to the point that we become very reactive to them.

My invitation to you is to be cautious of labeling any point of view that is opposed to yours as "liberal". Labeling everything liberal and conservative only adds to our polarity and stakes out ground to defend. The word "liberal" has been used as a weapon to the point that it's use is a blanket invalidation of an entire person's input. It is so vague as to be practically meaningless as a descriptor and is often hurled as an insult.

Personally, I consider myself neither "liberal" nor "conservative". I am a commonsensican. In political terms, I have registered for both American parties at different times. (I'm not sure it did any good, ha ha)

I guess what I am trying to say is that your point is very well made and also let's be careful not to divide up into the camps that are offered us by those who would control us.

With respect,

Whiskey

[Daughter of Time]

On Teaching:

No man can reveal to you aught but that which already lies half asleep in the dawning of your knowledge.

The teacher who walks in the shadow of the temple, among his followers, gives not of his wisdom but rather of his faith and his lovingness.

If he is inded wise he does not bid you enter the house of his wisdom, but rather leads you to the threashold of your own mind.

The astronomer may speak to you of his understanding of space, but he cannot give you his understanding.

The musician may sing to you of the rhythm which is in all space, but he cannot give you the ear which arrests the rhythm nor the voice that echoes it.

And he who is versed in the science of numbers can tell of the regions of weight and measure, but he cannot conduct you thither.

For the vision of one man lends not its wings to another man.

And even as each one of you stands alone in God's knowledge, so must each one of you be alone in his knowledge of God and in his understanding of the earth.

From: THE PROPHET

P. S. - in this day and age I would replace "man" with "person" and "he" with "they" and so on...

[modwiz]

You have to give 9eagle points for using her own hard fought for wisdom in her posts. There is merit in the words of writers and poets. Great merit, but it belongs to the creator of those ideas. We have a lot of posters who quote great wisdom. 9eagle pulls it fresh out of her own heart and guts. She does not seek to ride the coat tails of other creators. She is her own creator. She gets what it is to be a co-creator in this world and is always brings it raw from the ground of her being. There are very few who can even come close to that. Her 'stick' is a creation/projection of those who perceive it only. Cold water is not a stick and it will not bruise. It will piss you off completely though. It will make you hyperventilate too. A lot of that is in evidence.

[Belle]

Perhaps the title of this thread should be "split from Horus-Ra thread: discussion of 9eagle9's conduct on that thread".

I spend a lot of time on here just reading and observing...especially the interactions between people. I've learned a few things along the way...such as how to poke and provoke others with lots of nice nice words and perhaps a few smilies...or how to use someone's triggers against them and cry poor me or victim...or how to compliment someone while stabbing them in the back...or how to derail a thread's subject by attacking a poster, but oh so kindly and with lots of caring and love. So many manipulations to choose from...so many games to play.

Some of PA's brightest stars have been given vacations or outright banned as a result of the "meek" setting them up for a fall. The last thread by Songs comes to mind....she had something valuable to share, but she never got a chance to finish because of the outright attacks on her. I think of Lord Sid, who made us think outside of the box and laugh. And, of course, 9eage9 who brought truth and clarity to what it really means to be responsible and manage ourselves.

What did they all have in common? They were unique and not everyone's cup of tea. Sometimes abrasive...sometimes going a bit too far to prove a point. But filled with knowledge and wisdom they were willing to freely share with anyone willing to listen...and to discuss with those sincerely questioning.

A wealth of knowledge and wisdom gone, for what?.... to maintain mediocracy because of some who felt 'threatened' by their style? to maintain a false front of politeness, civility? Maybe it's just me, but I'll take straight-forward honesty and integrity anyday...no matter how it's dished out...over the manipulation and game playing.

I don't often speak my mind in this way, but each time a person of strength and conviction leaves, PA loses it's vibrancy and becomes more and more a shadow of itself. Sad. One could think this is the plan to bring PA down...not with a stick, but rather with a whimper.

[778 neighbour of some guy]

Posted by Christine (here)

Posted by DeDukshyn (here)

Posted by modwiz (here)

Posted by DeDukshyn (here)
Well said, but to add ...

Just because you understand someone doesn't mean you are giving them a free ticket to treat you like crap. One does not mean the other is acceptable. But I do agree that few understand her.

My 2 cents.

I give her a free ticket to point out my crap to me any day. It is the equivalent of pointing out a misstep that will cause you pain and further suffering. Of course, she will be challenged doing so. I have had some point out what they think is my crap to me. It was their crap that they stuck on me.

I have softened my battle stance. I like it here on the forum.

Want change on that two cents?

Haha I so understand what you are saying, but (being the devil's advocate I love to play) ... One can point out my crap in a myriad of ways -- this to me is the variable in question. Where is the line between someone pointing out your crap to you and sticking crap on you then pointing it out? This is why that variable is important .. especially to those who don't understand her.

My 2.5 cents after receiving change from Modwiz on the last two

Another two cents... and the question that begs to be answered, did I ask you to point out my crap?

If I didn't then quite frankly I would ask you to leave my space alone.... maybe I am not ready for your crap pointing outness or maybe I have just endured a crushing emotional blow, or maybe I have spent the night fighting off some ET implanter, or maybe I am just plain not in the mood to have someone pointing out my crap... and maybe that someone pointing out my crap doesn't understand me at all. And maybe I think your crap pointing is full of crap.

And maybe I just am not that good at expressing myself in writing and what I say looks like crap but it really isn't.

Oh s**t this is too much crap. Oh dear this is really not like me, care to comment?

I think maybe that was about half a penny.

That was about ten bucks worth, dont sell yourself cheap on this one.

[modwiz]

Posted by Belle (here)
Perhaps the title of this thread should be "split from Horus-Ra thread: discussion of 9eagle9's conduct on that thread".

I spend a lot of time on here just reading and observing...especially the interactions between people. I've learned a few things along the way...such as how to poke and provoke others with lots of nice nice words and perhaps a few smilies...or how to use someone's triggers against them and cry poor me or victim...or how to compliment someone while stabbing them in the back...or how to derail a thread's subject by attacking a poster, but oh so kindly and with lots of caring and love. So many manipulations to choose from...so many games to play.

Some of PA's brightest stars have been given vacations or outright banned as a result of the "meek" setting them up for a fall. The last thread by Songs comes to mind....she had something valuable to share, but she never got a chance to finish because of the outright attacks on her. I think of Lord Sid, who made us think outside of the box and laugh. And, of course, 9eage9 who brought truth and clarity to what it really means to be responsible and manage ourselves.

What did they all have in common? They were unique and not everyone's cup of tea. Sometimes abrasive...sometimes going a bit too far to prove a point. But filled with knowledge and wisdom they were willing to freely share with anyone willing to listen...and to discuss with those sincerely questioning.

A wealth of knowledge and wisdom gone, for what?.... to maintain mediocracy because of some who felt 'threatened' by their style? to maintain a false front of politeness, civility? Maybe it's just me, but I'll take straight-forward honesty and integrity anyday...no matter how it's dished out...over the manipulation and game playing.

I don't often speak my mind in this way, but each time a person of strength and conviction leaves, PA loses it's vibrancy and becomes more and more a shadow of itself. Sad. One could think this is the plan to bring PA down...not with a stick, but rather with a whimper.

Demographics, dear Belle. There are those who explore the depths of their being and their place in the cosmos and come back with tales of those explorations. There are those who seek to do the former and enjoy writing as if they have or will. There are those who are still exploring the contents of their diapers. Two out of three ain't bad.

Yes, I quoted Jim Steinman, songwriter for Meatloaf. Purely for comic relief. I do not feel profound quoting him.

This is Bill's house and we are all his guests. He is rightly invested in offering safe haven for all. His task is not an easy one.

[Rocky_Shorz]

Posted by Belle (here)
Perhaps the title of this thread should be "split from Horus-Ra thread: discussion of 9eagle9's conduct on that thread".

I spend a lot of time on here just reading and observing...especially the interactions between people. I've learned a few things along the way...such as how to poke and provoke others with lots of nice nice words and perhaps a few smilies...or how to use someone's triggers against them and cry poor me or victim...or how to compliment someone while stabbing them in the back...or how to derail a thread's subject by attacking a poster, but oh so kindly and with lots of caring and love. So many manipulations to choose from...so many games to play.

Some of PA's brightest stars have been given vacations or outright banned as a result of the "meek" setting them up for a fall. The last thread by Songs comes to mind....she had something valuable to share, but she never got a chance to finish because of the outright attacks on her. I think of Lord Sid, who made us think outside of the box and laugh. And, of course, 9eage9 who brought truth and clarity to what it really means to be responsible and manage ourselves.

What did they all have in common? They were unique and not everyone's cup of tea. Sometimes abrasive...sometimes going a bit too far to prove a point. But filled with knowledge and wisdom they were willing to freely share with anyone willing to listen...and to discuss with those sincerely questioning.

A wealth of knowledge and wisdom gone, for what?.... to maintain mediocracy because of some who felt 'threatened' by their style? to maintain a false front of politeness, civility? Maybe it's just me, but I'll take straight-forward honesty and integrity anyday...no matter how it's dished out...over the manipulation and game playing.

I don't often speak my mind in this way, but each time a person of strength and conviction leaves, PA loses it's vibrancy and becomes more and more a shadow of itself. Sad. One could think this is the plan to bring PA down...not with a stick, but rather with a whimper.

Bill is just asking her to temper her style, or accept Mod corrections to handle it, which would drive her nuts...

I miss everyone who left, and most I stepped in front of for a target, still ended up leaving, but the door is always open...

look at all the familiar faces that have reappeared lately...

Avalon and Camelot aren't going anywhere unless Bill or Kerry gave up...


which we know, isn't going to happen...

[Daughter of Time]

Posted by modwiz (here)
You have to give 9eagle points for using her own hard fought for wisdom in her posts. There is merit in the words of writers and poets. Great merit, but it belongs to the creator of those ideas. We have a lot of posters who quote great wisdom. 9eagle pulls it fresh out of her own heart and guts. She does not seek to ride the coat tails of other creators. She is her own creator. She gets what it is to be a co-creator in this world and is always brings it raw from the ground of her being. There are very few who can even come close to that. Her 'stick' is a creation/projection of those who perceive it only. Cold water is not a stick and it will not bruise. It will piss you off completely though.

Everyone here knows you are a great admirer of 9eagle9, and who can blame you? There is no question that she posseses wisdom, knowledge, guts, insight - she is truly a master-in-the-making. From what I've read of her posts, she has been through a lot and has learned from the harsh lessons. Kudos to her for that! She has gained my respect. She is a truly remarkable woman! I'm always interested in what she has to say and I have always tried to understand where she comes from. And even though it took a couple of interactions, I understood.

But to become a great master one needs a little more than those qualities. One also needs a small dose of compassion and humility, which she rarely shows. I'm not saying this in criticism, but in observation. And since she is walking the path of knowledge and wishes to serve humanity in freeing themselves from their burdens, developing more compassion and humility cannot but help her in her quest.

So, I'm not at all disagreeing with you Modwiz. I can take her cold water - some are not ready for it. Some need to be caressed before they're shocked. This is not necessarily weakness, it's vulnerability; just as kindness is not weakness, it is care.

I just hope that this will be a time of contemplation for her so that she may become greater than she already is.

[Belle]

Posted by modwiz (here)
Demographics, dear Belle. There are those who explore the depths of their being and their place in the cosmos and come back with tales of those explorations. There are those who seek to do the former and enjoy writing as if they have or will. There are those who are still exploring the contents of their diapers. Two out of three ain't bad.

Yes, I quoted Jim Steinman, songwriter for Meatloaf. Purely for comic relief. I do not feel profound quoting him.

This is Bill's house and we are all his guests. He is rightly invested in offering safe haven for all. His task is not an easy one.

Thanks, Mod. I'll take two out of three.

I understand his task and that of the mods is not easy. But don't ALL Bill's guests deserve safe haven...even the gregarious ones...from the young 'uns and their tricks? Safety for the "meek" at the expense of strong?

I don't change diapers, but I'll potty train if that will help.

[wynderer]

just wanted to point out that it was not 9eagle9's rudeness to me that i was addressing -- it was the fact that her 'suggestions' were not useful to me -- not because 'i'm not ready ' for her teachings, or so 'deeply into the victim mode' or 'into denial' -- just because they were not helpful

all of you who know her --is she well known in the abductee & milab community as a go-to person for help?

[modwiz]

Posted by Daughter of Time (here)



But to become a great master one needs a little more than those qualities. One also needs a small dose of compassion and humility, which she rarely shows. I'm not saying this in criticism, but in observation. And since she is walking the path of knowledge and wishes to serve humanity in freeing themselves from their burdens, developing more compassion and humility cannot but help her in her quest.

So, I'm not at all disagreeing with you Modwiz. I can take her cold water - some are not ready for it. Some need to be caressed before they're shocked. This is not necessarily weakness, it's vulnerability; just as kindness is not weakness, it is care.

I just hope that this will be a time of contemplation for her so that she may become greater than she already is.

Humility and compassion are there for those with the eyes to see it. They are, therefore, in the eye of the beholder.

Caress or shock me. Do not caress me and then shock me. That is crazy,sociopathic, behavior. Kind of schizophrenic too.

In short. I do not find myself in agreement with the tone of your post. It promotes coddling. Bill is not promoting coddling. He is simply looking out for his guests who see what 9eagle does as attacks. As his guests, their perceptions must be taken into account. 9eagle is in a small minority and that minority cannot be given special treatment.

Besides, she can take it as well as dish it out. Vacations included.