Jane Burgermeister: friend or foe?

[Curative]

First let me state for the record, I have admired JB's contribution to humanity through her efforts in raising public awareness of the Flu-scam. I admire Bill's initiative in obtaining one of the first video interviews of Jane & sharing it with us.

I am aware of previous discussions around the subject of JB's filing of charges in relation to Baxter's contamination of the seasonal flu vaccine with live H1n1. And to be honest whether or not she actually filed these charges as she claims is second in importance to the excellent job she has so far done in raising awareness of corporate psychopathy in relation to the pharmaceutical industry.

However I have recently been involved in debate regarding her credibility with what I perceive as a growing movement of alternative researchers in their unified condemnation of JB. Namely Ian R Crane, Jim Corr and others. They are circulating the allegation that Jane is either mentally unstable or a NWO plant. All this at a time when Jane is apparently fighting against prosecution by the Austrian Judiciary.

I for one cannot turn a blind eye to this situation as ultimately it comes down to this: Either JB is untrustworthy or her accusers are. We must know which in order to prevent further manipulative attempts from the guilty party/ies in the future. To this end I implore Jane to address this situation directly & publicly (as her accusers are doing). I have heard she is in hiding, but she can remain so and address this issue through the internet.

The presenter of North East truth Radio, Mike (hosted by TNS radio) has said he would have her on his show to debate this situation as I'm sure Vince, the host of TNS radio (on which she has previously appeared) would. So again I implore Jane to step up to the challenge of her own credibility by directly addressing these damaging allegations.

In closing, I would like to state that we are being told more & more frequently to start living in our hearts instead of just in our minds, to listen to our heart by being more aware of the emotions we feel when focusing on a given situation and acting accordingly. My heart told me JB was speaking from her heart in the interviews I have witnessed. What do your hearts and or minds tell you?

Thanks for listening.

[Eric J (Viking)]

Its a frigging minefield!!! ... tip toe very carefully ... so many distractions...so many avenues to explore...which turning do we take!!!

MY opinion is that she came across as genuine ....

viking

[Steven]

Posted by Curative (here)
...However I have recently been involved in debate regarding her credibility with what I perceive as a growing movement of alternative researchers in their unified condemnation of JB. Namely Ian R Crane, Jim Corr and others. They are circulating the allegation that Jane is either mentally unstable or a NWO plant...

Hi Curative,

First of all, what are the facts that indicates JB is 'mentally unstable or a NWO plant'? Last news I had on JB, she had been arrested by the Autrichian authority and was waiting for her trial. So, she isn't in a position to come up publicly with a debate on her credibility.

Please, give us more information. I will not beleive her credibility is at stake with such a few information. Until then, she is in my perspective, quite a courageous person fighting for our rights like David against Goliath.

A quick search on Jim Corr http://www.jimcorr.com/ and Ian R Crane http://www.ianrcrane.co.uk/ shows both men are researcher for NWO agenda. Selling products on the subject... They are no expert in medical/phamaceutical field. Why they came up with this attack on JB credibilty?

Edit: We must admit, NWO conspiraties are quite lucrative today. It makes me wonder...

Namaste, Steven

[lightblue]

Curative:

v Jane Burgermeister: friend or foe?

First let me state for the record, I have admired JB's contribution to humanity through her efforts in raising public awareness of the Flu-scam. I admire Bill's initiative in obtaining one of the first video interviews of Jane & sharing it with us.

I am aware of previous discussions around the subject of JB's filing of charges in relation to Baxter's contamination of the seasonal flu vaccine with live H1n1. And to be honest whether or not she actually filed these charges as she claims is second in importance to the excellent job she has so far done in raising awareness of corporate psychopathy in relation to the pharmaceutical industry.

However I have recently been involved in debate regarding her credibility with what I perceive as a growing movement of alternative researchers in their unified condemnation of JB. Namely Ian R Crane, Jim Corr and others. They are circulating the allegation that Jane is either mentally unstable or a NWO plant. All this at a time when Jane is apparently fighting against prosecution by the Austrian Judiciary.

I for one cannot turn a blind eye to this situation as ultimately it comes down to this: Either JB is untrustworthy or her accusers are. We must know which in order to prevent further manipulative attempts from the guilty party/ies in the future. To this end I implore Jane to address this situation directly & publicly (as her accusers are doing). I have heard she is in hiding, but she can remain so and address this issue through the internet.

The presenter of North East truth Radio, Mike (hosted by TNS radio) has said he would have her on his show to debate this situation as I'm sure Vince, the host of TNS radio (on which she has previously appeared) would. So again I implore Jane to step up to the challenge of her own credibility by directly addressing these damaging allegations.

In closing, I would like to state that we are being told more & more frequently to start living in our hearts instead of just in our minds, to listen to our heart by being more aware of the emotions we feel when focusing on a given situation and acting accordingly. My heart told me JB was speaking from her heart in the interviews I have witnessed. What do your hearts and or minds tell you?

Thanks for listening.

i think you are provoking unnecessary firm positioning... l

p.s. the way i hear it, your analysis comes from your mind and not from the heart you say you are so fond of ...i don't appreciate your intro at all because you are blatently using a false premise as basis for a debate you are trying to impose ...i also think you are underestimating the forum members...l

[avid]

Jane has sacrificed everything lately for us!!!
We should promote all of the negativities related to her cause.
There are many people wishing her to die check out Horotwitz....

http://blogcritics.org/scitech/artic...xtraordinaire/

[fifi]

JB is a genuine and brave whistleblower to me.

[Dale]

Jane is an extremely courageous and intelligent individual. She has done a great deal of work to expose the fraud behind last year's swine flu ordeal.

Now, there are plenty of researchers in the "conspiracy field" that declare all who contradict their own views a "NWO shrill," or a COINTELPRO agent, or even mentally unstable; but I, personally, do not see those individuals as researchers to begin with.

[RAKMEiSTER]

Posted by lightblue (here)
Curative:

i think you are provoking unnecessary firm positioning... l

p.s. the way i hear it, your analysis comes from your mind and not from the heart you say you are so fond of ...i don't appreciate your intro at all because you are blatently using a false premise as basis for a debate you are trying to impose ...i also think you are underestimating the forum members...l

agrees with that
and i see her as genuine
respect for her.
i hope some good folks(swiss and more) will support her in this madness of the judiciary crap, cause* some people with power on the background orchestrating the path and background proof to make it valid not facts (laws)

[jeannacav]

Yes, I agree it is a mine-field
And
I agree Jane is completely sincere and coming from her heart.
And, she risked this attack from the beginning and knew it and continued in spite of this possibility.
So, I add "very brave" to the list of her attributes.

I applaud Jane

and send her my prayers for her safety.
I know she is a sovereign Being, and I am also sure she realizes this too, so my prayers are for her physical safety since her immortal Being is safe.

jeanna

[JoeNashville]

I'm with Jane! Given all she's been doing and going through lately, it's only natural for her to get a little frayed around the edges. It must be very stressful. I haven't seen anything for me to believe otherwise. I still trust her words and deeds.

Anytime groups of people gang up on another and start throwing stones their actions are suspect in my book. Resort to attacking the messenger it almost always means their message is suspect. One of those observational life lessons that almost always rings true, because sadly it almost always works because people don't bother to keep sight of the facts and the truth.

More information would be helpful. Perhaps in this thread, posted up to aid in the discussion. If we can't provide support to brave people like JB we are missing an opportunity IMO.

[noxon medem]

.
friend or foe
the basic logic is flawed
dualistic in a multipular situation.
she is what she is.
what you perceive is your matter..
But she should be careful to mix her own
private, family, property, thing
With the bigger picture, or situation ...
.

[Teakai]

I think whistleblowers must be incredibly strong people with a huge conscience. There seems to be no great thanks from the general public for putting themselves on the line.

I guess we can be thankful that their conscience is what inspires them to speak out and not acceptance of the masses.

[Snowbird]

Posted by avid (here)
Jane has sacrificed everything lately for us!!!
We should promote all of the negativities related to her cause.
There are many people wishing her to die check out Horotwitz....

http://blogcritics.org/scitech/artic...xtraordinaire/

No wonder our dear sweet and brave Jane is in hiding. The ghouls are out to get her.

Swine flu prompts changes to Mental Health Act
Wednesday 23rd September 2009

The government plans to rush through measures allowing people with suspected mental health issues to be quickly detained because of fears over staff shortages in any forthcoming swine flu outbreak, it has been revealed.

The temporary changes to the Mental Health Act, as laid out in an unusually short consultation lasting just one month, would mean it would only take one doctor, rather than two, to have a person sectioned and put on medication without their consent.


http://www.managementinpractice.com/...ticle.id=18628


Jane Bürgermeister, Whistleblower Extraordinaire

It is certainly true that they have written into the health care reform rules that no company can be sued for damages, and I read the other day that the UK quietly and quickly wrote a law that says if you refuse the vaccine, health care workers have the green light to use it as evidence of being clinically insane, with coercive powers to hospitalize in mental hospitals and then force medications and vaccines on said patients. Refusal of vaccine equals insanity?

http://blogcritics.org/scitech/artic...xtraordinaire/

[Curative]

Hi guy's thanks for your interest in this difficult to debate subject

I have downloaded the 3hr interview between North East Truth & Ian R Crane (to my pc) but cannot upload here because of a site restriction on file size uploads (even after reducing it to it's relevant 17 minutes).

i will post a link below to the three hour interview, the relevant time frame is from 2hrs 33mins in, however I could not find a simple way of fast forwarding to that point, but that may be just me. It is though an interesting 3hr interview if you have the time to listen.

The main points to consider when contemplating this 'debate' are:

1. And make no mistake about this, Ian R Crane is rapidly becoming one of the biggest names in the UK within the alternative truth movement. Mainly because of his AV events http://www.avlll.co.uk/index.php

2. Jim Corr is a member (and brother) of 'The Corrs' http://www.thecorrswebsite.com/ He has his own website (as Steven posted earlier) http://www.jimcorr.com/

Their words will carry weight to many ears. To hope this will all just go away is naive, if these allegations are left unchallenged Jane Burgermeister's reputation will be in ruins before much longer.

As I state in my opening post, "either JB is untrustworthy or her accusers are."

It is (IMO) imperative we identify any and all deliberate detractors of truth, that we may guard ourselves from their influence of a negative nature in the future. Of equal importance is the unity of community (common unity).

If I am the only one who feels this way, then perhaps the few attempts at suppression and deflection by argument in this thread are correct in their opinions of me. Of course it does allow opportunity to reflect and see who exposes what about their own agendas.

Label me a 'truth seeker' if you must, I freely admit it holds importance for me and is the true underlying reason for this thread. Here is the link...scroll down a bit to find the player on the left. Then hopefully we can debate the consensus.

http://northeasttruth.com/featured-a...y-3-hour-show/

[lightblue]

curative:

As I state in my opening post, "either JB is untrustworthy or her accusers are."

-who, according to you, are jb's accusers - as you are trying hard to stir this very discussion?

- what do you understand by accusing?

- what do you understand by alleging?

- how have jim carr and r crane indebted humanity? how is their work significant according to you? why do you believe they have any credibility at all? I looked up their websites and the content did not hold my attention for longer than 1 minute, if that - honestly....


thank you l

[Fredkc]

It is (IMO) imperative we identify any and all deliberate detractors of truth, that we may guard ourselves from their influence of a negative nature in the future. Of equal importance is the unity of community (common unity).

Not fer nothin' but, these two statements are contradictory regardless of the subject matter.

The quick'n dirty way to discredit anyone with uncomfortable information is to

• Make a flurry of charges about their information,
• Get the local government to bury them in fake criminal charges
• Label them as obvious disinfo,
• And finally, after having driven them nuts with all the harassment, state that "See? I TOLD you they were crazy!"

If nothing else, it "hijacks" their message, turning the discussion to information about their information, charges to counter-charges about charges made, etc.

To be honest, some of the things I've read by her in the last few weeks seem a bit "harried". Given what has been done to her, I'd have to say she's holding up twice as well as I would.

In the end, JB should be about the info she has brought forth. Is it accurate? Is it helpful?
Not pointing fingers here
Just a thought
Fred

[lightblue]

.

jb shall be vindicated l





.

[Curative]

Posted by lightblue (here)
curative:

-who, according to you, are jb's accusers - as you are trying hard to stir this very discussion?

- what do you understand by accusing?

- what do you understand by alleging?

- how have jim carr and r crane indebted humanity? how is their work significant according to you? why do you believe they have any credibility at all? I looked up their websites and the content did not hold my attention for longer than 1 minute, if that - honestly....


thank you l

lightblue,

Along with the above you admit to conducting less than 60 seconds worth of research on both Ian's & Jim's respective sites. This indicates to me you have probably not listened to the 3hr interview where the allegations are clearly made. Please do so before making further 'knee jerk' comments.

http://northeasttruth.com/featured-a...y-3-hour-show/

Fredkc

"Not fer nothin' but, these two statements are contradictory regardless of the subject matter."

I can see how my comment could initially be seen as contradictory, let me explain.

My interpretation is that we need to be establishing a common unity in this world, based on truth, to this end those who may be involved in undermining this aim should, where possible, be identified as doing such, so that the likelihood of their manipulative influence negatively effecting the 'truth/unity movement' in the future can be greatly reduced.

Further discussion will hopefully allow us to get to the bottom of this matter.

Folks, please listen to the interview to see where I'm coming from.

[Second Son]

Curative.. Friend or Foe?

The easiest way to sway popular opinion and put questions in peoples' minds is to ask that very question, Curative. To even think for a moment that Jane, with all of the legal harassment of late could answer to these allegations is preposterous. I judge the worth and credence of a person (whistleblower or not) by their humility. I think you will find most if not all of the researchers and whistleblowers featured on this forum are very respectfull to the rest of their peers. I have never heard of any of the "big names" slamming or slandering one another or debunking their material... on the contrary, I mostly hear them referencing each others' material, speaking together, giving impromptu joint interviews, etc. I recently listened to a Michael Tsarion interview wherein he thanked all of the alternative researchers who came before him (I think he said he came up "on their backs").

So, in short, though I think this type of thread is divisive and counter-productive, I am responding to it out of a desire to point this out. This forum, I think, is a place for discerning, progressive people to assimilate data, facts, opinions, etc. I personally haven't much use for second hand doubts about these facts and data. I take those parts of each and every interview I watch/read/listen to, and correlate it with what I already "know", and throw out what doesn't work or ring true. I hope everyone else does as well. I DO NOT believe every word form every researcher, but my doubts are my own, as are my truths.

If I was only allowed one litmus test of a person's truthfulness, it might just be whether or not they allow others their OWN truths. Based upon this, and the fact that I have yet to hear any conspiracy researchers whom I respect talking negatively about their contemporaries, I would have to conclude that both of your sources lack credibility... at least to me.

Peace out.

[Bill Ryan]

----------
Hi, All:

Jane told me in January that Ian Crane has disinvited her from a planned UK presentation because of accusations he had read that she had not actually filed the legal complaints she stated that she had.

Jane said that she had immediately got back to Ian Crane, offering to send him documentation.

But apparently Crane told her he was not interested. Jane then decided that as his mind had been made up without hearing her side of any evidence, his conference was definitely not one which she would want to speak at anyway.