Proof that Pleiadians and the rest do not Absolutely exist!

[Phoenix]

Posted by pie'n'eal (here)

Posted by Chris82 (here)
Hi pie'n'eal ,

Your buddhist views are a refreshing change from the usual perception of things.

They dont exist but then again neither do we.

However, I do want to ask you something...
If you see a burning house with 3 kids stuck inside would you go and help them? If yes why? If all is just a dream? And i agree it's a dream.

If you see a child about to be raped by a guy , or maybe by a reptilian, and you feel is in your power to stop that from happening ...would you step into duality and help him?
Is true that karma and stuff is the reason some of us experience this dream as a nightmare; so it's true it may be best, when looking at the big picture, not to intervene.

But the overhelming compassion and love you feel... It's hard to stay and meditate while everything is going downhill isn't it? How do one solves this paradox?

Hello Chris,
This is a huge important subject you bring up, and it is to do with understanding the unity of two truths. One is the relative truth, of things seeming to exist and the other the absolute truth, that all things and mind are empty by nature. We have to respect the relative truth are work within it, as we are in this body. This body needs food and shelter, if we have the energy and generosity we can help others.


Meditation is just 'being'. One can 'be' in a cave, or one can 'be' with others it make no difference. There are many levels of understanding this.

Though one may see someone suffering or having a good time because of their karma, If we are in 'their' vicinity we are part of 'their' karma, for that moment....and they are part of ours!



Tony

But pie, you did not answer the question. Can you drop the rhetoric for a minute and answer Chirs82's question?

[Tony]

Hope and Fear.

Hope and Fear are two poisons that control us. They cloud our 'view'!

Our 'clear view' is our true being, which is naturally Pure, Knowing and Compassionate.
This is undeniable. These are the three natural qualities of our being, Emptiness, Cognisance and Love. So now we know what we truly are! We are embodied spirits of pure light.

But, of course, we have an opposite side - not-pure, not-knowing and not-compassionate, because of this “I” fixation!

These three aspects create the three main emotions of Desire, Aversion and Ignorance.
Ordinary confused humans are governed by “I like”... “I do not like”... and “I do not care”.

So we blindly react, and our clouded view stays the same. This is because we Ignore our true nature. That is the first poison, Ignorance.

It is strange that the laws of this universe have to same characteristics:
Attraction, Repulsion and Inertia. Maybe, our Ignorance, Desire and Aversion created the laws of this universe, that keeps us in this vicious cycle of existence...?!

Ignorance creates Hope and Fear. Ignorance also create Pride and Envy.

Of course they are other beings in 'this' universe, who have the very same spiritual-potential-essential nature as us. An enlightened nature!

But we also have an endarkened nature, that gives into the emotions of Hope and Fear.

Hoping that there are beings in spaceships off planet to help us, and Fearing what is happening here on Earth creates a confused mind. We can cut through our confusion, by cutting through our cloud of Hopes and Fears.

We are Pure, Knowing and Compassionate beings - This is an undeniable truth.

[RunningDeer]

Posted by pie'n'eal (here)

Posted by WhiteCrowBlackDeer (here)

Posted by pie'n'eal (here)

Posted by Spiral (here)
My subjective reality now contains the illusion that my brain hurts, the subjective causality being this thread, or so I believe.

Is it the case that an abducted Buddhist would tell the ETs that they don't exist ?

My Dear Spiral,

I cannot begin to tell you how much I would dearly love have a little chat with these fellows!

Long life and prosper,
Tony

Ohhhh!, so you're the guy the ET fellows are talking about, Tony...
You're the cause for some of them coming. And you're the cause for some of them staying away.

May the force be with you,
WhiteCrowBlackDeer

Dear Paula,
There are 'others' to talk to......in prayer!


Tony

Dear Tony,

I am in full agreement. I've got some big guys that I talk with. Though of late, I've asked for them to step aside to see if whom I'm speaking with are an illusion or are of Great Light. Like always, they are in full support that it's my life, my choices, my decisions.

The post above was intended for a humorous exchange. I find that I need more smiles and belly laughs these days.

Peace and Smiles,
Paula

[Kindred]

Posted by Phoenix (here)

Posted by pie'n'eal (here)

Posted by Chris82 (here)
Hi pie'n'eal ,

Your buddhist views are a refreshing change from the usual perception of things.

They dont exist but then again neither do we.

However, I do want to ask you something...
If you see a burning house with 3 kids stuck inside would you go and help them? If yes why? If all is just a dream? And i agree it's a dream.

If you see a child about to be raped by a guy , or maybe by a reptilian, and you feel is in your power to stop that from happening ...would you step into duality and help him?
Is true that karma and stuff is the reason some of us experience this dream as a nightmare; so it's true it may be best, when looking at the big picture, not to intervene.

But the overhelming compassion and love you feel... It's hard to stay and meditate while everything is going downhill isn't it? How do one solves this paradox?

Hello Chris,
This is a huge important subject you bring up,... {snip)
Tony

But pie, you did not answer the question. Can you drop the rhetoric for a minute and answer Chirs82's question?

Yes Tony... in reading this thread last night, I had the same question arise. I do wish to hear what your training has to say in relation to this important question posed by Chris.

Thanks!

In Unity, Peace and Love

[Tony]

Posted by Finefeather (here)
So I take it from all the posts on this thread that everything is just an illusion..
So I was just wondering what we were all doing here then and what is it that we need to achieve?
If everything is an illusion, is reality also an illusion and if so what is this thing we call reality?
Who is having this illusion and why would this someone be having such an amazing illusion.
Is this guy delusional? Is 'God' delusional? Is 'God' actually on some massive dose of mind altering drug and we are just the illusion?

Dear Fine feather,
Brilliant question!

Conventional reality is the illusion....it only seems to be real!
Absolute reality is knowing the illusion...that seems to be real!

You are Absolute reality, your mental self image is a conventional reality.
As we are in this body we need the conventional reality, to realise this absolute reality.

I think the body can be a good anchor, it can keep us grounded.
Otherwise we could float off anywhere!

God, is a different question
This idea may help some and not others.
I might say, "I do not believe in God, but in the very nature of God!"
..which is my own true nature...and yours!


Yours, Tony

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Posted by Kindred (here)

Posted by Phoenix (here)

Posted by pie'n'eal (here)

Posted by Chris82 (here)
Hi pie'n'eal ,

Your buddhist views are a refreshing change from the usual perception of things.

They dont exist but then again neither do we.

However, I do want to ask you something...
If you see a burning house with 3 kids stuck inside would you go and help them? If yes why? If all is just a dream? And i agree it's a dream.

If you see a child about to be raped by a guy , or maybe by a reptilian, and you feel is in your power to stop that from happening ...would you step into duality and help him?
Is true that karma and stuff is the reason some of us experience this dream as a nightmare; so it's true it may be best, when looking at the big picture, not to intervene.

But the overhelming compassion and love you feel... It's hard to stay and meditate while everything is going downhill isn't it? How do one solves this paradox?

Hello Chris,
This is a huge important subject you bring up,... {snip)
Tony

But pie, you did not answer the question. Can you drop the rhetoric for a minute and answer Chirs82's question?

Yes Tony... in reading this thread last night, I had the same question arise. I do wish to hear what your training has to say in relation to this important question posed by Chris.

Thanks!

In Unity, Peace and Love

Is this to do with meditation?

Tony

[Kindred]

Posted by pie'n'eal (here)

Yours, Tony

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Posted by Kindred (here)

Posted by Phoenix (here)

Posted by pie'n'eal (here)

Posted by Chris82 (here)
Hi pie'n'eal ,

Your buddhist views are a refreshing change from the usual perception of things.

They dont exist but then again neither do we.

However, I do want to ask you something...
If you see a burning house with 3 kids stuck inside would you go and help them? If yes why? If all is just a dream? And i agree it's a dream.

If you see a child about to be raped by a guy , or maybe by a reptilian, and you feel is in your power to stop that from happening ...would you step into duality and help him?
Is true that karma and stuff is the reason some of us experience this dream as a nightmare; so it's true it may be best, when looking at the big picture, not to intervene.

But the overhelming compassion and love you feel... It's hard to stay and meditate while everything is going downhill isn't it? How do one solves this paradox?

Hello Chris,
This is a huge important subject you bring up,... {snip)
Tony

But pie, you did not answer the question. Can you drop the rhetoric for a minute and answer Chirs82's question?

Yes Tony... in reading this thread last night, I had the same question arise. I do wish to hear what your training has to say in relation to this important question posed by Chris.

Thanks!

In Unity, Peace and Love

Is this to do with meditation?

Tony

No... it has to do with an important set of questions posed by Chris82 and Phoenix about whether or not a 'non-existent' individual should render assistance to another 'non-existent' individual being attacked or subjected to harm by some 'non-existent' physical phenomena.

Do we let others suffer, if we have the power to offer assistance?

In Unity, Peace and Love

[Spiral]

Is it the case that the perimeters of our consciousness are defined by the nature of our corporeal nature ?

Different beings seem to operate within the bounds of different perimeters, some of the things we attribute to being a sentient life form such as compassion are absent, whilst they have a nature of being we can only guess at, and being human always anthropomorphise those things so that the reality rests beyond our ken.

Being able to chat with an ET would be a good way of trying to translate their modalities into something our cognative faculties could digest

The trouble is it seems that everyone else uses telepathy, so there is not the comfort of considering & moulding that which you want to say, as soon as a thought appears it is instantly known by them !

At least higher beings communicate in a manner that is akin to flashes of realisation in deep meditation, as opposed to the brutal & concise way that some of the nastier types relate.

[Tarka the Duck]

Posted by Kindred (here)

Posted by Phoenix (here)

Posted by pie'n'eal (here)

Posted by Chris82 (here)
Hi pie'n'eal ,

Your buddhist views are a refreshing change from the usual perception of things.

They dont exist but then again neither do we.

However, I do want to ask you something...
If you see a burning house with 3 kids stuck inside would you go and help them? If yes why? If all is just a dream? And i agree it's a dream.

If you see a child about to be raped by a guy , or maybe by a reptilian, and you feel is in your power to stop that from happening ...would you step into duality and help him?
Is true that karma and stuff is the reason some of us experience this dream as a nightmare; so it's true it may be best, when looking at the big picture, not to intervene.

But the overhelming compassion and love you feel... It's hard to stay and meditate while everything is going downhill isn't it? How do one solves this paradox?

Hello Chris,
This is a huge important subject you bring up,... {snip)
Tony

But pie, you did not answer the question. Can you drop the rhetoric for a minute and answer Chirs82's question?

Yes Tony... in reading this thread last night, I had the same question arise. I do wish to hear what your training has to say in relation to this important question posed by Chris.

Thanks!

In Unity, Peace and Love

Apologies for jumping in here...

In my reply to Bill (post 75) I tried to explain this: BOTH TRUTHS ARE TRUE and BOTH need to be respected.
They are a unity.
It's not a matter of the conventional world mattering more than the ultimate or vice versa.

I remember hearing someone talk about this and they explained that the attitude towards the conventional world is similar to staying in a hotel room: you take care of everything in there respectfully, but because it doesn't belong to you, you don't obsess on it. You know you will leave it behind when you leave.

Appearances that we relate to and care for etc are part of relative truth.
The true nature of these appearances is the ultimate truth.

The ultimate truth cannot be realised by thinking.

Do we let others suffer, if we have the power to offer assistance?

Compassion - the wish to remove suffering - is a key aspect of Buddhism...so definitely not!!

[Tony]

Posted by truth4me (here)
pie'n'eal,I have a question. If you were a star traveling Pleiadian and wanting to make contact with the people of Earth how would you go about it? Would you go straight to our governments? or would you by pass that and just land?

Hello truth4me,

I often ask this question myself!
This is what I 'believe' and practice. I feel certain that there are enlightened beings, and they shower us sentient beings all the time with blessings...now!
I would do exactly the same, in fact I do this in my prayers everyday! (this includes governments). All we need to do is open the door...mind and heart, to receive these blessings.

Our journey to realising our true nature is individual, as we are all at different stages. But we do have a collective aspect...we can work more together!

Now and again enlightened beings do come to Earth to teach. Their effects last a long time. Some of us merely repeat their teachings. The teaching are there for those that hear, like attracts like. Governments are too immersed in their power to hear about absolute truth, they are only interested in relative truth...what they can gain!

The way to liberation is here now, it is very simple, maybe too simple! Love thy neighbour as thy self, I and my father are one. The problem is translating this:
"I" = imagined self, "father' = is our true nature. This unity is the two truths relative and absolute.
Love thy neighbour as thy self = unconditional Love.

We have alway had the same choices, do good, do no evil, tame the mind.

Blessings can come in many forms to suit...it can come in the form of clarity!



All the very best,
Tony

[Tony]

Posted by Kindred (here)

No... it has to do with an important set of questions posed by Chris82 and Phoenix about whether or not a 'non-existent' individual should render assistance to another 'non-existent' individual being attacked or subjected to harm by some 'non-existent' physical phenomena.

Do we let others suffer, if we have the power to offer assistance?

In Unity, Peace and Love

Dear Kindred, Chris82 and Phoenix,

IT IS ALL ABOUT COMPASSION, LOVE, EMPATHY. ...helping others!
The problem is with the word non-existent, or not truly existing.

This relates to contrived embellished concepts of ourselves. It's in the imagination.
However there is that which is aware of these mental adornment, the stuff we hang onto.

That pure awareness is you! This pure Awareness has the power to radiate out to help others,
if it has the capacity.

The safe guard to all spiritual practice is compassion to all sentient beings.
Unconditional never ending compassion.


However it is true that there are practitioner who live in caves, and want enlightenment, and to be free, that is their right.
We are what is termed house holders, we work within society, and that is our choice.



All the best,
Tony

[RunningDeer]

Post removed by me because it doesn't fit the tone of the thread.

[Jake]

Posted by truth4me (here)
pie'n'eal,I have a question. If you were a star traveling Pleiadian and wanting to make contact with the people of Earth how would you go about it? Would you go straight to our governments? or would you by pass that and just land?

The Most obvious meeting place would be in the Astral! (Sorry, I had to,,, )

Also, I loved the Bible verse,,, Very good find. Jake.

[another bob]

Posted by Jake (here)

Posted by truth4me (here)
pie'n'eal,I have a question. If you were a star traveling Pleiadian and wanting to make contact with the people of Earth how would you go about it? Would you go straight to our governments? or would you by pass that and just land?

The Most obvious meeting place would be in the Astral! (Sorry, I had to,,, )

Also, I loved the Bible verse,,, Very good find. Jake.

There seem to be two separate (and somewhat conflicting) elements going on with this thread, and although I understand why Tony chose to include the provocative element about ET, conflating ET existence with Nagarjuna's Buddhist polemics and the Two Truths Doctrine has clearly been the source of some confusion.

One can visit Buddhist forums and encounter endless threads exploring the subtle aspects of the Two Truths, as well as pro and con arguments about the validity of Nagarjuna's "Tetralema", and his elucidations of emptiness, and walk away either intellectually inspired or, more likely, with a big headache. The point being, unless one has a direct experience of emptiness (sunyata), all discussion about it just adds, in the words of the great Zen Master Hakuin, "more foulness onto foulness still."

On the other hand, speculating about the existence of ET is just that, unless one also has a direct experience. One member here, our Friend BrightGarlick, has documented a number of such encounters, and since he just posted about the subject on his blog today, I am passing on a very interesting link:

http://otherworldyencounters.wordpre...rough-account/

[Tarka the Duck]

Yes indeed, AB, it's been fascinating seeing this thread develop! Funny...I don't find that a basic grasp of the two truths (which is all I could hope to have) is at all headache-inducing. It's actually pretty simple - unless you choose to travel down the philosophical route.

The infinite debates surrounding the of their connectedness - they probably would bring on a migraine - but a simple explanation of the relationship between relative and ultimate can actually be pretty life-changing stuff. For me, the first time I read that everything is made up of parts, and is therefore not independently existent was a true Eurika moment
and the inspiration for a journey to experience sunyata.

Unless we have a basic understanding of the importance of the relative world as well as the ultimate nature of all things, an experience of emptiness can actually be very depressing: I've known people find life loses all meaning and everything seems pointless.

[another bob]

Posted by Tarka the Duck (here)
Unless we have a basic understanding of the importance of the relative world as well as the ultimate nature of all things, an experience of emptiness can actually be very depressing: I've known people find life loses all meaning and everything seems pointless.

That's why it is so often emphasized that, if we are going to embark on such a journey, we develop a working relationship with a qualified guide.

Blessings!

[Tarka the Duck]

Posted by another bob (here)

Posted by Tarka the Duck (here)
Unless we have a basic understanding of the importance of the relative world as well as the ultimate nature of all things, an experience of emptiness can actually be very depressing: I've known people find life loses all meaning and everything seems pointless.

That's why it is so often emphasized that, if we are going to embark on such a journey, we develop a working relationship with a qualified guide.

Blessings!

Yep! Absolutely agree there, AB.

[Chester]

Posted by pie'n'eal (here)
Proof that Pleiadians and the rest do not Absolutely exist!


As some of you know, we are not this body, but let's look inside.


All the best
Tony

Hi Tony, I agree with you... yet, when I wake up in the middle of the night having to pee, stumble towards the bathroom and stub my toe massively in the process... while I am hopping up and down screaming expletives, I find its certainly an extremely annoying illusion to say the least.

Ohhh and one more thing Tony. If someone came up to me and asked me if I ever knew a Pleiadian, I would show them your picture and respond, "You tell me!" hahaha meant totally in jest. I say this because I remember when I started reading your posts and saw your picture and all (those awesome soothing blue eyes)... I loved you instantly! Meant with all my heart. Thanks for being here, Tony, you are one of the reasons I keep coming back to Avalon. Chester

EDIT: Honest Truth! - I had not yet seen Post #80 by jackovesk! hahahah hillarious!

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post547402

[Jake]

Tony, You are one of my heroes.... I know that we have not touched base on a personal level,,, but I feel your joy and passion. and I would love to 'but heads' ,, in a joyful manner.

I am not of this world,, or of this human body! I wonder if transcending ego,,, is the same for each and every representation of life.... from plant to animal to human to ET??? i am not Buddhist,, (that I remember) but i do resonate with many of the buddhist philosophies that I come accross.

Have you ever had an OBE??? (maybe a topic for another thread, or PM..)

[DeDukshyn]

Posted by nonesuch (here)

Posted by DeDukshyn (here)

Posted by nonesuch (here)

Posted by DeDukshyn (here)

Posted by nonesuch (here)
Any average Joe can overuse the mind to grind itself into submission, insanity or boredom. I still hope to win an Academy Award by doing so now.

Using the mind and ego to convey a message that says the mind and ego are illusions simply piles on more evidence that mind and ego are real….at least to anyone who’s listening—or worse, listening and believing. .. <trim excess>

Cold is not a thing - there is no such thing as cold - only heat exists. Yet we have a label for "cold" and can perceive it with our senses, have measurements to measure it by and make our decision by it - yet it does not exist - only heat exists, yet we have a full on perception of cold.

Ego is not a thing - there is no such thing as Ego - only God exists. Yet we have a label for "ego" and can perceive it with our senses, have judgements to measure it by and make our decisions with it - yet it does not exist - only God exist, yet we have a full on perception of ego.

Maybe rethink your post?

If only God exists, exactly what is there to perceive BUT God, even in the form of ego. What is ego created by, or made of, except God? Even toys are real.

If cold doesn't exist - how do we have this perception of it? There is, and there is the absence of.

I don't think we disagree on that. Even cold hearts are real, but they're not necessarily the most accurate expression of a spiritual heart's purpose. My point is, when speaking of reality vs. illusion, we're using physical sense perceptions to divine and speak truths and then using the same tools to disprove them. It's not a moral judgement to say that a closed loop is an inaccurate measuring tool when talking about awareness, consciousness, ultimate truth and other things physical senses don't cover. Everything is real, but not everything is true. Depending on how we measure truth, each of us comes to our own conclusions about what is real. With such a smorgasbord at our fingertips, we have to make wise dietary choices. I think the OP was emphasizing that above the question of the reality of Pleiadians. Maybe. But i read that a long time ago. And I'm probably off topic anyway.


(And sorry, but I have to run to the grocery store, so I'll respond to your comment later.)

I think my metaphor has not been fully received as intended - allow me to clarify what I meant:

Cold is a concept only - but it does not exist - there is only heat - only heat can be measured - any and all thermometers measure heat - they cannot measure cold because it does not exist - it is the absence of a vibration and nothing more - even something at 1 degree kelvin has a infinitesimal amount of heat, but no cold. Cold is merely a lack of heat. At absolute zero, there is merely the absence of the vibration that determines the level of heat.

Does heat contain cold? No it does not - yet we "feel" cold, have a concept of it, and have to make decisions by it - but it still is not real except in the mind as a perception of the opposite of heat.

Does God contain Ego? Or do we just have a perception to the absence of something? Ego is formed when there is a separation from Source - an absence of that connection is what causes these perceptions.

Your initial point was that God must also be Ego. I say no it does not - in the same way that heat does not contain cold - yet both are real to perceptions, if defined by the consciousness.

[DeDukshyn]

After reading Tony's first post - I came to the conclusion that this thread is not really about whether pleiadians exist or not .. am I wrong? Maybe I have gotten this thread all wrong and was looking too deep into what Tony was actually saying? I don't know. Bill and others seem to think that this is what it was a bout -- does almost no on on Avalon understand philosophy? I don't know ... Maybe I'm just on another planet ... and Tony came to visit?