What will happen to unpaid mortgages?

[StarDust]

Posted by we-R-one (here)

Posted by StarDust (here)

Posted by gripreaper (here)

Posted by TargeT (here)
vehicles are the same way, I went down this path when buying my truck (which I don't owe technicaly...) contract law apparently is a double edged sword and I fear we are on the "backstroke" currently...

That is correct. Unless you pay "cash" at the original dealer, and DEMAND the MCO, Manufacturers Certificate of Origin, which the dealer sends to the state, you DO NOT own your vehicle.

The "certificate" of title which is given to you, just certifies you as the user, subject to registrations, insurance, licensing, maintenance, and care of THEIR vehicle. You agreed to this through your adhesion contracts of title registration as well as signing drivers license documents.

They own you now too.

Isn't that primarily a technicality? Once I've paid off the vehicle and receive the title in the mail from the financing company, I am then free to sell it at any time; or do whatever is legal with the vehicle (trade it, place it in a trailer, drive it off a cliff, etc.). I've never had a finance company approach me with their hand out for a percentage of the sale after the fact.

Here's something else I've learned- don't sign the vehicle registration form that they give you when you pay for your tags. It's basically a contract and by signing you are stating that you are "ok" to being subject to their statues! Of course, you need to know how to defend yourself, because you will get pulled over at some point and you have to be able to go into court, pro se, to argue why those statues don't apply to you- it's all about jurisdiction! When you sign that form- you are giving them jurisdiction.

Interesting points and I do recall Drake mentioning something about that process very early on in his radio chats. However, since I've yet to encounter a serious traffic infraction in close to 30 years of driving (minus a few neglegible speeding tickets in my youth), I'm more inclined to let they system crumble before I head out to buck the system. I think this strategy will win in the end as time is on my side;o)

[cloud9]

I wonder what will it happen if nobody paid their mortgages?

[we-R-one]

Posted by StarDust (here)

Posted by we-R-one (here)

Posted by StarDust (here)

Posted by gripreaper (here)

Posted by TargeT (here)
vehicles are the same way, I went down this path when buying my truck (which I don't owe technicaly...) contract law apparently is a double edged sword and I fear we are on the "backstroke" currently...

That is correct. Unless you pay "cash" at the original dealer, and DEMAND the MCO, Manufacturers Certificate of Origin, which the dealer sends to the state, you DO NOT own your vehicle.

The "certificate" of title which is given to you, just certifies you as the user, subject to registrations, insurance, licensing, maintenance, and care of THEIR vehicle. You agreed to this through your adhesion contracts of title registration as well as signing drivers license documents.

They own you now too.

Isn't that primarily a technicality? Once I've paid off the vehicle and receive the title in the mail from the financing company, I am then free to sell it at any time; or do whatever is legal with the vehicle (trade it, place it in a trailer, drive it off a cliff, etc.). I've never had a finance company approach me with their hand out for a percentage of the sale after the fact.

Here's something else I've learned- don't sign the vehicle registration form that they give you when you pay for your tags. It's basically a contract and by signing you are stating that you are "ok" to being subject to their statues! Of course, you need to know how to defend yourself, because you will get pulled over at some point and you have to be able to go into court, pro se, to argue why those statues don't apply to you- it's all about jurisdiction! When you sign that form- you are giving them jurisdiction.

Interesting points and I do recall Drake mentioning something about that process very early on in his radio chats. However, since I've yet to encounter a serious traffic infraction in close to 30 years of driving (minus a few neglegible speeding tickets in my youth), I'm more inclined to let they system crumble before I head out to buck the system. I think this strategy will win in the end as time is on my side;o)

You should have been sitting in this room with me and a bunch of other guys one night a while back-total legal guru's and I'm not talking about attorney's....this one was describing how he out-talked the policeman out of a ticket based on jurisdiction. He cited all the statue violations, the lack of jurisdiction and then he told the cop that legally they only had 3 three reasons to pull him over, none of which was why he had been originally stopped. He had that guys head spinning, LMAO. His buddy who was with him at the time said it was hysterical. The cop called his supervisor and then the supervisor came to the scene, LMAO, LMAO. They had to let him go

[Camilo]

The root of the problem started when the controllers made you buy into the illusion that you must be a home owner, so they could control your life till the last day.

[we-R-one]

Posted by scarletfire (here)

Posted by we-R-one (here)

Posted by scarletfire (here)
Get this... I have 2 mortgages, one w/ the bulk of the house worth and then another of about 20% of that.... Last month I get a letter from bank of America about how they r simply going to forgive the smaller one, no forms to fill out.., I just have to call and "accept".... Weird huh... The amount was close to 23 grand that they forgave, first decent thing they ever did for me. My paymts are a couple months behind so maybe they are trying to "save" me... Whatever... I'll take it. Just thought u may wanna know that this kind of thing is going on

NO! Do not accept!!! I will tell u why when I get back to my computer. It's a trap!

Haven't "accepted" yet, thanks for the heads up...showed it to a lawyer and she said it looks legit only thing is I'll have to claim it as income on next year's taxes. I'm confident that trapping folks is what the banks do best so I remain skeptical.

Scarletfire, something else I wanted to mention, for you and other property owners. There's a tax coming to homeowners in 2013.....it won't effect everyone, but you should know about it as it's still bad news and will create additional problems for the real estate industry. Starting Jan 1, 2013 a 3.8 percent tax is going to be implimented on homeowners, who sell their home, for the purpose of funding Obama's healthcare plan. Ahh yes, the homeowner's are now being required to fund this asshole's idiotic and useless health care program. So here's how it works....

The tax does not affect all real estate transactions....you know what I'm going to stop- let's get it right from the horses mouth the National Association of Realtors, your saviors, your protector of homeownership rights! Lights people lights, cameras!!! Applause!!Here ya go!

"Understand that this tax WILL NOT be imposed on all real estate transactions,
a common misconception. Rather, when the legislation becomes eff ective in 2013,
it may impose a 3.8% tax on some (but not all) income from interest, dividends,
rents (less expenses) and capital gains (less capital losses). Th e tax will fall only
on individuals with an adjusted gross income (AGI) above $200,000 and couples
fi ling a joint return with more than $250,000 AGI."

Here's additional information from their site:

Applies to:  Individuals with adjusted gross income (AGI) above $200,000
 Couples filing a joint return with more than $250,000 AGI

Types of Income: Interest, dividends, rents (less expenses), capital gains
(less capital losses)

Formula: The new tax applies to the LESSER of Investment income amount
 Excess of AGI over the $200,000 or $250,000 amount

Here's the link so you can read the rest from our wonderful realtor association:

http://www.realtor.org/small_business_health_coverage.nsf/docfiles/government_affairs_invest_inc_tax_broch.pdf/$FILE/government_affairs_invest_inc_tax_broch.pdf

[we-R-one]

Like how nice and sweet they make it sound, like it's no big deal.

[crosby]

i lost my home to foreclosure quite a while ago. i just wish i would have known, or would have been awake when i purchased the home - - because then i would not have purchased and i could have avoided so much emotional and economic turmoil. thank you we-R-one, very valuable information.
warmest, corson

[we-R-one]

Posted by corson (here)
i lost my home to foreclosure quite a while ago. i just wish i would have known, or would have been awake when i purchased the home - - because then i would not have purchased and i could have avoided so much emotional and economic turmoil. thank you we-R-one, very valuable information.
warmest, corson

Corson, you may have been foreclosed on illegally! You might check in to what the statue of limitations are in regards to filing a suit against the former lien holder for wrongful foreclosure if that can be proved. I know, I know, there could be an expense, but you never know, some attorney might feel you have a strong enough case.....the point being not to reclaim the home, but to sue for damages. Just thinking out loud here...need to find out about that statue of limitations......

[we-R-one]

Now after that nice PA announcement from NAR let's review their mission and vision statements shall we???

NAR's Mission and Vision

Mission
The core purpose of the NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF REALTORS® is to help its members become more profitable and successful.

Vision
The NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF REALTORS® strives to be the collective force influencing and shaping the real estate industry. It seeks to be the leading advocate of the right to own, use, and transfer real property; the acknowledged leader in developing standards for efficient, effective, and ethical real estate business practices; and valued by highly skilled real estate professionals and viewed by them as crucial to their success.

Working on behalf of America's property owners, the NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF REALTORS® provides a facility for professional development, research and exchange of information among its members and to the public and government for the purpose of preserving the free enterprise system, and the right to own, use, and transfer real property.

oh they're helping shape the industry all right. OH and ethical- really, lmao. Like they are the moral authority. But hey, they're working on behalf of America's property owners! Well they got the America part right, but they should have typed it as AMERICA. smirk....

ONe more bonus- the kicker- they're working with "the purpose of preserving the free enterprise system, and the right to own, use and transfer real property."

uh...anybody else think they need to revamp their vision and mission statement?

[we-R-one]

Posted by DeDukshyn (here)

Posted by meat suit (here)
we -R-one,

is this just a US problem?
or also europe? UK?

thanks

meat

Or Canada?

I asked my contact and no information at this point. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if they're doing this in other countries. Over here, we're having people go to the county recorder's office and pull all the paperwork that's been recorded on their property. Within those documents you can find whether there's a MERS identification number or not. You have a higher likely hood if the property was bought or sold in 2000 or later, or if you have refinanced within that time period.

Based on that information I would look for similar processes being doing in different countries. Find out who runs like MERS. My understanding is the membership behind MERS consists of all the big bank names. So once you understand how the system works over here in the U.S. you might be able to identify a similar process being done in your country. If I find any additional information I will post.

[gripreaper]

This is an excellent article and explains the fraud quite well:

Excerpt:

First, the lending institution must enter into the court record, the original “Note” and the original “Mortgage” document as of the date the Complaint was filed. The problem is that the lending institution does not have the originals anymore. Immediately after completing the closing, the lending institution sold the “Note” and the “Mortgage” to a group of investors and turned over the original “Note” and “Mortgage” to the investor group. The original lending institution no longer has any capital at risk. Based on this requirement, the foreclosure suit cannot go forward. However, the revenue officer, the so-called judge counts on the abysmal ignorance of the Citizen losing their home and the judge proceeds to steal the property.

Another thing that is happening is this. The banks are using fraudulent securities. The banks enter copies of the note and mortgage that measure 8.5 inches by 11 inches. Pursuant to 18 USC, these full size copies are fraudulent securities. Copies can only measure 75% of the original or 150% of the original. This would clearly give notice that these are copies. However, the banks are entering 100% copies, these are fraudulent securities.

Second, the lending institution must file an affidavit of ownership, which clearly identifies the Plaintiff as the “Real Party in Interest” with all of the attending rights, title and interest in the “Mortgage”. When the lending institution sold the “Note” and the “Mortgage”, they stopped being the “Real Party in Interest”. Hence, the lending institution has no “Standing” to sue on the property.

New Mexico does not even have any mortgage foreclosure statutes, so all of the mortgage foreclosures in New Mexico are conducted under the Rules of Civil Prodecure. READ that again, no mortgage foreclosure statutes in New Mexico. The whole mortgage foreclosure business in New Mexico is conducted the Rules of Plunder of War, the spoils of War, Prize and Booty.

Third, “Standing” is an absolute pre-requisite to filing a lawsuit. There are are three lawful requirements for “Standing”.

Injury in fact-not a hypothetical injury.
Causality-that the actions of the borrower created the injury in fact.
Redressability-that the judgment will make the injured party whole.

Three things can be proven beyond a doubt: 1) There is no injury in fact to the bank or mortgage company. 2) There is no causality-the bank is the cause of the damage to the mortgagor. 3) There is no redressability for the bank since it is the bank that caused the injury and damage to the mortgagor.

The revenue officer, the so-called judge, on the case will not require that his corporate buddies, the lending institutions, prove standing in the courtroom. Thus, without “Standing” the lawsuit cannot go forward.

Fourth, in order for a contract to be valid and binding, there must be “Consideration”. “Consideration” means “something of value”. The Citizen borrowing Federal Reserve Notes, brings his real estate, “something of value”, to the table in exchange for worthless paper called Federal Reserve Notes. So then, one must ask a few basic questions in regards to this transaction. When the bank loaned the borrower Federal Reserve Notes, did the bank go the to vault and take Federal Reserve Notes on deposit and loan those to the borrower?

Ask any banker friend and he will tell you that “No”, they do not loan out their deposits. So then, how are the Federal Reserve Notes “produced”? The bank goes to their computer and by the use of their “magical, Hollywood wand”, a few keystrokes, produce, out of thin air, say $100,000.00 Federal Reserve Notes, to loan you. This is where “Credit” comes from. One second before, these Federal Reserve Notes did not exist. Now, by magic, the bank has $100,000.00 worth of Federal Reserve Notes to lend you. So if creating “something of value” out of thin air is real, then it is easy for me to convince you that the Easter Bunny lays different colored eggs once a year. All mortgage contracts and notes are null and void for fraud, the bank never brought any "consideration" to the table. Also, the contract is void for lack of disclosure which a violation of TILA, Truth in Lending Act.

In the following sentences you can take the red pill or the blue pill. You must chose.

If you decide to read the above article titled "Memorandum of Law-Bank Fraud", you will discover that the banks, by federal law, are not allowed to lend their credit nor depositors money in the form of Federal Reserve Notes. So the only thing the bank can loan you is your own money. Good Reading.

There is a caveat here at this point. Before the bank or mortgage company create "credit", also known as Federal Reserve Notes, it needs to have on hand some collateral. You signed two major documents at the "closing", the "Note" and "Mortgage" or "Deed of Trust". Most Americans do not realize how valuable their signature on documents is. The Mortgage document serves as the collateral needed by the bank(from this line forward, when I say bank, I also mean mortgage company).

When you sign the "Note", the bank turns it into "money" and deposits it into a special, secret account set up in your name, that is to say, an all capitals name "nom de guerre" also known as "The Enemy of the STATE". By the magic of "banking", your signature is needed to "monetize" the "Note". To the bank, the "Note" document is actual "money".

If you don't believe me, request a copy of your "Note" and "Mortgage/Deed of Trust". Examine the Mortgage documents and you should be able to find a stamp on the document that says, "Pay to the Order of, without prejudice ABC Mortgage Company/ABC Bank." Now we just hit the mother Lode. Follow the money.

Under 18 USC, the "Note" becomes a negotiable instrument, also known as a "Security". Hence, you, the borrower, by your signature, created a "Security" for the bank. Which in turn, the bank, converts into "money".

Now here is where it gets fun. Now that the bank has "money" that it deposited into your secret, undisclosed account, it can loan you your own "money" back at interest. The bank then must balance its books, so the bank writes a "hot check" against the "money" in your secret account to "pay off" your debtor. Then your bank demands that the bank receiving their "hot check" pay them back with Federal Reserve Notes. Now the bank turns to you and says, "Now that we loaned this money, you owe us for the next thirty years".

The bank very conveniently ignores the "money" that you created by your signature and the bank deposited into the secret, undisclosed account. By the fact that you abandoned this secret account, the bank considers this "money" a gift from you. See, under the law, you cannot reclaim a gift that you made. Of course, the bank defrauded you when they took the "money" that you knew nothing about. Wow! What a system!

However, the "money deposited into your secret, undisclosed bank account", is still there. The bank considers this secret, undisclosed account abandoned. Thus, they lay claim to this "money". However, this theft of your property is a second degree felony called "Conversion of property". However, the banking system has little to fear, we as Americans have been dumbed down to the point of illiteracy by our indoctrination system. Oops, did I say indoctrination, I meant to say "education".

Here is the crux of the above three paragraphs. You, the mortgagor are a depositor and the bank owes you the amount of money of the Note. How is that for fraud. You should be suing the bank for fraud and extortion. The bank counts on the stupidity of the American people and gets to steal homes at their leisure.

http://ricoforsheriff.com/moratorium...e-foreclosures

Lets go down the rabbit hole a little more. When the bank deposits your "Note money" into your special, secret account, you owned your home free and clear. The bank neglects to inform you of this little tidbit of information. Pretty convenient and self serving isn't it?

Read the WHOLE article.

[we-R-one]

Posted by gripreaper (here)
This is an excellent article and explains the fraud quite well:

Excerpt:
[B]
First, the lending institution must enter into the court record, the original “Note” and the original “Mortgage” document as of the date the Complaint was filed. The problem is that the lending institution does not have the originals anymore. Immediately after completing the closing, the lending institution sold the “Note” and the “Mortgage” to a group of investors and turned over the original “Note” and “Mortgage” to the investor group. The original lending institution no longer has any capital at risk. Based on this requirement, the foreclosure suit cannot go forward. However, the revenue officer, the so-called judge counts on the abysmal ignorance of the Citizen losing their home and the judge proceeds to steal the property.

Great article grip- I will pass it on. I will say if it's a MERS loan they actually shred the note, it is not necessarily turned over to the investor group though I'm sure in some cases it has been; at least that's been my understanding. Thanks for the link!

[Watching from Cyprus]

Posted by we-R-one (here)

Posted by Siberia9 (here)
we-R-one is RIGHT!

I found this out in 2006 when I was flipping houses. Suddenly the small old school title insurance company I was using said no, we can't cover this property. Due to the fact that Skippy the office clerk has signed off on the note. Not the real lien holder and president of the company. When pressed the bank selling the house could not produce a letter saying this person had the right to sign off. Then we found out about MERS, oh what a mess this is going to be. Clouded title is something you all will be hearing for years to come.


Its my opinion that this was done on purpose, meaning that it will be big before its over. Why? because the folks running things very much want to destroy private property ownership in every way possible. This includes making your tax payments as high as they can. Will you be able to pay that 5 grand in tax's when hamburgers are 20.00 bucks? Will you buy a house when you cant be sure if its actually yours?

And I wont even get into those loan doc's, geez.

There are no words to describe the damage that this will cause. I am beside myself with grief......I will do all that I can to help and am currently on the radar of two individuals who are helping rectify this problem. I will have answers for you and a solution. It's all ready being done, but it's challenging to find anyone, who knows how to do the proper procedures in order to clear your titles. I know where to go, contact me and I will help anyone who puts in requests to know more.

I agree, I think this was done on purpose....and you know what's really scary to me....how do we know those notes weren't purchased on the market by foreign governments? Even scarier, how do we know they weren't purchased by OUR GOVERNMENT? Cause if they did, can you see where I'm going with this???

The big question nobody seems to ask themselves ; Who was the first owner of the land... how did they posses it... and who gave them the right to sell it ???? Nobody on this planet has any right to claim ownership on any peace of land... we are all here to share .... Just think about the Commonwealth countries . . All the land belongs to the Queen Lizard , so how can you home owners even think that your title deed is free ... this is just a lease and the Queen Lizard will throw you out when she feels for it ... This is how deep the deceit is .. NON OF US OWNS ANYTHING, and the sooner the better that sinks into everybody's head as fact, since only then will we stop defending materialistic things, although i would say the house you live in and is your home, you should defend it but never forget that if someone knocks on your door and asks for shelter, invite them in since your home is as much their home...

We have to break down the veil now

In truth and honesty
Peter

[we-R-one]

Posted by Watching from Cyprus (here)

Posted by we-R-one (here)

Posted by Siberia9 (here)
we-R-one is RIGHT!

I found this out in 2006 when I was flipping houses. Suddenly the small old school title insurance company I was using said no, we can't cover this property. Due to the fact that Skippy the office clerk has signed off on the note. Not the real lien holder and president of the company. When pressed the bank selling the house could not produce a letter saying this person had the right to sign off. Then we found out about MERS, oh what a mess this is going to be. Clouded title is something you all will be hearing for years to come.


Its my opinion that this was done on purpose, meaning that it will be big before its over. Why? because the folks running things very much want to destroy private property ownership in every way possible. This includes making your tax payments as high as they can. Will you be able to pay that 5 grand in tax's when hamburgers are 20.00 bucks? Will you buy a house when you cant be sure if its actually yours?

And I wont even get into those loan doc's, geez.

There are no words to describe the damage that this will cause. I am beside myself with grief......I will do all that I can to help and am currently on the radar of two individuals who are helping rectify this problem. I will have answers for you and a solution. It's all ready being done, but it's challenging to find anyone, who knows how to do the proper procedures in order to clear your titles. I know where to go, contact me and I will help anyone who puts in requests to know more.

I agree, I think this was done on purpose....and you know what's really scary to me....how do we know those notes weren't purchased on the market by foreign governments? Even scarier, how do we know they weren't purchased by OUR GOVERNMENT? Cause if they did, can you see where I'm going with this???

The big question nobody seems to ask themselves ; Who was the first owner of the land... how did they posses it... and who gave them the right to sell it ???? Nobody on this planet has any right to claim ownership on any peace of land... we are all here to share .... Just think about the Commonwealth countries . . All the land belongs to the Queen Lizard , so how can you home owners even think that your title deed is free ... this is just a lease and the Queen Lizard will throw you out when she feels for it ... This is how deep the deceit is .. NON OF US OWNS ANYTHING, and the sooner the better that sinks into everybody's head as fact, since only then will we stop defending materialistic things, although i would say the house you live in and is your home, you should defend it but never forget that if someone knocks on your door and asks for shelter, invite them in since your home is as much their home...

We have to break down the veil now

In truth and honesty
Peter

Hi Peter,
Yes some of us do know, that we never own our homes and it has to do with the allodial title. Even though some pay off their mortgages they never fully own the property because if they did, they wouldn't be paying taxes. There's only one place in the world that has full ownership and if I remember correctly it's in England and I believe it's owned by some of the TPTB or TPTW however you want to label them.

[Watching from Cyprus]

Posted by we-R-one (here)

Posted by Watching from Cyprus (here)

Posted by we-R-one (here)

Posted by Siberia9 (here)
we-R-one is RIGHT!

I found this out in 2006 when I was flipping houses. Suddenly the small old school title insurance company I was using said no, we can't cover this property. Due to the fact that Skippy the office clerk has signed off on the note. Not the real lien holder and president of the company. When pressed the bank selling the house could not produce a letter saying this person had the right to sign off. Then we found out about MERS, oh what a mess this is going to be. Clouded title is something you all will be hearing for years to come.


Its my opinion that this was done on purpose, meaning that it will be big before its over. Why? because the folks running things very much want to destroy private property ownership in every way possible. This includes making your tax payments as high as they can. Will you be able to pay that 5 grand in tax's when hamburgers are 20.00 bucks? Will you buy a house when you cant be sure if its actually yours?

And I wont even get into those loan doc's, geez.

There are no words to describe the damage that this will cause. I am beside myself with grief......I will do all that I can to help and am currently on the radar of two individuals who are helping rectify this problem. I will have answers for you and a solution. It's all ready being done, but it's challenging to find anyone, who knows how to do the proper procedures in order to clear your titles. I know where to go, contact me and I will help anyone who puts in requests to know more.

I agree, I think this was done on purpose....and you know what's really scary to me....how do we know those notes weren't purchased on the market by foreign governments? Even scarier, how do we know they weren't purchased by OUR GOVERNMENT? Cause if they did, can you see where I'm going with this???

The big question nobody seems to ask themselves ; Who was the first owner of the land... how did they posses it... and who gave them the right to sell it ???? Nobody on this planet has any right to claim ownership on any peace of land... we are all here to share .... Just think about the Commonwealth countries . . All the land belongs to the Queen Lizard , so how can you home owners even think that your title deed is free ... this is just a lease and the Queen Lizard will throw you out when she feels for it ... This is how deep the deceit is .. NON OF US OWNS ANYTHING, and the sooner the better that sinks into everybody's head as fact, since only then will we stop defending materialistic things, although i would say the house you live in and is your home, you should defend it but never forget that if someone knocks on your door and asks for shelter, invite them in since your home is as much their home...

We have to break down the veil now

In truth and honesty
Peter

Hi Peter,
Yes some of us do know, that we never own our homes and it has to do with the allodial title. Even though some pay off their mortgages they never fully own the property because if they did, they wouldn't be paying taxes. There's only one place in the world that has full ownership and if I remember correctly it's in England and I believe it's owned by some of the TPTB or TPTW however you want to label them.

Yes dear, most will be shaken in their roots.. people born and raised to the lie that it is about having a career, earning a lot of money, buying and owning a property and the plot, just to find out they have worked their butt off for nothing... many will simply go mad, insane, and very very angry . . Full ownership in England... well that is Commonwealth and the land of the Lizard Elisabeth, so the ground layer is 100% owned by her and her family, and i assume they have then added a layer on top which is then 'sold' but can be scraped of, when needed !!!!!!

In love and light
Peter

[Ricker]

This is why I want to live in the woods and eat nuts and berries. Or have they taxed that too?

[genevieve]

gripreaper--

The link to the article you quote isn't working for me. Any chance you can give me the names of the website and the article?

Thank you.


Peace Love Joy & Harmony,
Genevieve