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Thread: The Arctic is melting, the Antarctic is freezing. What does this mean?

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    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
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    Default The Arctic is melting, the Antarctic is freezing. What does this mean?

    -------

    Hi, All:

    I created this thread title with a genuine question. No wonder climate change experts are arguing.

    I welcome research, references, perspectives and intelligent analysis that might help me and others to understand this. (Carmody? Amzer Zo? Lazio? And Vivek -- where are you? )

    These two articles were published, independently, on the same day.

    The Antarctic:

    http://forbes.com/sites/jamestaylor/...another-record

    Antarctic Sea Ice Sets Another Record – For Most Ice Ever This Time of Year

    Antarctic sea ice set another record this past week, with the most amount of ice ever recorded on day 256 of the calendar year (September 12 of this leap year). Please, nobody tell the mainstream media or they might have to retract some stories and admit they are misrepresenting scientific data.

    National Public Radio (NPR) published an article on its website last month claiming, “Ten years ago, a piece of ice the size of Rhode Island disintegrated and melted in the waters off Antarctica. Two other massive ice shelves along the Antarctic Peninsula had suffered similar fates a few years before. The events became poster children for the effects of global warming. … There’s no question that unusually warm air triggered the final demise of these huge chunks of ice.”

    NPR failed to mention anywhere in its article that Antarctic sea ice has been growing since satellites first began measuring the ice 33 years ago and the sea ice has been above the 33-year average throughout 2012.

    (continued here...)

    The Arctic:

    http://news.yahoo.com/arctic-ice-shr...175242723.html

    Arctic ice shrinks to all-time low; half 1980 size


    In a critical climate indicator showing an ever warming world, the amount of ice in the Arctic Ocean shrank to an all-time low this year, obliterating old records.

    The ice cap at the North Pole measured 1.32 million square miles on Sunday. That's 18 percent smaller than the previous record of 1.61 million square miles set in 2007, according to the National Snow and Ice Data Center in Boulder, Colo. Records go back to 1979 based on satellite tracking.

    "On top of that, we're smashing a record that smashed a record," said data center scientist Walt Meier. Sea ice shrank in 2007 to levels 22 percent below the previous record of 2005.

    Ice in the Arctic melts in summer and grows in winter, and it started growing again on Monday. In the 1980s, Meier said, summer sea ice would cover an area slightly smaller than the Lower 48 states. Now it is about half that.

    (continued here...)

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    Default Re: The Arctic is melting, the Antarctic is freezing. What does this mean?

    Hey Bill,

    In my opinion, it means that the sea level might eventually decrease, if this pattern is continued.

    If it was the contrary (antarctic melt down), the sea level would increase.

    However, there´s a misrepresentation of a polar bear in the Antarctic article. There are no bears in the part of the planet. So, they´re still in danger of extinction, since the Arctic is melting down alarmingly fast.

    Cheers,

    Raf.

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    Default Re: The Arctic is melting, the Antarctic is freezing. What does this mean?

    This is not about the ice in the Artic and the Antartic Bill, this is just another topic thrown in our faces with the intention of pitting one mindset against the other and brainwashing the masses to choose sides....Next you'll hear that this is the reason that coastal cities are not yet experiencing severe flooding from global warming and the melting of the ice caps! (they have to come up with an excuse one way or another to explain ocean levels not severely rising) THIS IS A GOOD REASON.


    I'm sure there is one group of people thinking this massive weight shift will cause the planet to flip over too!

    Either way it will not change the facts from the "officials" that "global warming" is not a natural Earth cycle but caused by humans and that if we all don't start paying carbon taxes we are all going to die.

    I have never experienced more double talk in my lifetime than I have experienced just in the last couple of years.....

    Edit: ADDED words in red.....
    Last edited by SilentFeathers; 21st September 2012 at 13:57.
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    Default Re: The Arctic is melting, the Antarctic is freezing. What does this mean?

    -------

    One thought that occurred to me is that if the build-up of ice is asymmetrical, then this might create a very slight wobble on the spinning mass of the planet. I have no idea what effects that might trigger (or if the wobble would be large enough to create a knock-on effect).

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    Default Re: The Arctic is melting, the Antarctic is freezing. What does this mean?

    Assuming the global warming theory isn't completely bunk - most of the greenhouse gasses are produced in the Northern Hemisphere where the melting is occurring. Perhaps Mother Earth is restoring balance by replacing the ice from her Antarctic Cap at the south.

    As for an asymmetrical wobble - most of the land mass is in the Northern Hemisphere. Ice build up in the Southern Hemisphere would only even things out a bit.

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    Default Re: The Arctic is melting, the Antarctic is freezing. What does this mean?

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)

    (Carmody? Amzer Zo? Lazio? And Vivek -- where are you? )
    Well Bill, I'm none of those, which reminds me of the old Fleetwood Mac line: "I can't sing, I ain't pretty, and my legs are thin".(LOL)

    I am however a thoughtful observer, and what I observe in the Manmade Global Warming, Global Cooling, and now the catch all Climate Change debate, is this: An outrageous fraud that has been shockingly well exposed, but yet continues regardless.

    Agenda 21 comes to mind.

    Cheers,
    Fred

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    Default Re: The Arctic is melting, the Antarctic is freezing. What does this mean?

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    -------

    One thought that occurred to me is that if the build-up of ice is asymmetrical, then this might create a very slight wobble on the spinning mass of the planet. I have no idea what effects that might trigger (or if the wobble would be large enough to create a knock-on effect).
    Hey Bill,

    I wouldn´t worry about that.

    The planet has gone through many dramatic changes before.

    These things are just part of nature.

    If we´re strong enough as a race, we´ll find a way to adapt, to survive.

    If we aren´t, we´ll be extinguished (which is also part of the natural cycle). Then, after hundreds of thousands of years, another race will evolve, dominate the planet and probably study our fossils and give us weird names in science classes all over the world.

    No race lasts forever, anyway.

    I think it´s nonsense to worry about this stuff. It always happened and it will continue to happen until the eventual end of our planet.

    Cheers,

    Raf.

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    Default Re: The Arctic is melting, the Antarctic is freezing. What does this mean?

    Let's see; it's Summer in the Arctic and winter in the Antarctic,with the seasons now in transition...
    “Bundinn er bátlaus maður”

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    Default Re: The Arctic is melting, the Antarctic is freezing. What does this mean?

    Quote Posted by RMorgan (here)
    Then, after hundreds of thousands of years, another race will evolve, dominate the planet and probably study our fossils and give us weird names in science classes all over the world.
    ...and they'll probably be only 2 or 3 feet tall and find our 6 foot tall skeletons and claim that "there were giants in ancient times"

    and then they dig up and old space shuttle and claim "ancient astronauts" visited their planet in the past.

    but some of us of today will survive and evolve but follow an extreme law to never again interfere with the process of life on Earth because of our past catastrophic mistakes.....but we will monitor the process from special ships and occasionally be seen by the new races on this planet and they will say we are aliens from other planets! We will become the "watchers"! LOL!

    PS: they may actually find the ruins of one of our nuclear power plants and notice that it was a circular building and think that it was an ancient sacred religious temple and that it was some type of "machine" we used to "speak to the Gods"....
    Last edited by SilentFeathers; 21st September 2012 at 14:23.
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    Default Re: The Arctic is melting, the Antarctic is freezing. What does this mean?

    Is it at all possible that the gradual magnetic pole shift is affecting the ice? If this “reality” is truly electro-magnetic at its core (pardon the pun) would it not manifest change both at its poles and all points in between? Ironic how this issue has polarized humans especially given the aeons its been studied- 33 years! Perhaps mother earth re-invents herself and to perish or adapt has now become a conscious choice.?

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    Default Re: The Arctic is melting, the Antarctic is freezing. What does this mean?

    Bill ....just my thoughts....

    My background is actually in environmental sciences and chemical engineering.

    Keeping things simple which is key.

    The climate changes rather human's exist here for not.
    Our planet's motion through the solar system, as well as our Sun's motion through our Galaxy are constantly changing.
    We have absolutely no control over what the heavenly bodies do.

    We, exist, like all other conscious souls, rather it be insects, animals, plants, etc..
    Similar to the insects, plants and animals, we all share the same living space.

    The planet has been around for billions of years.
    Human's have been around on this planet for billions of years.

    We will accomplish about as much by worrying about climate changes as the plants, insects and animals do.
    I think it is better to experience living in the present moment with love, rather than to live in the present moment worrying about fear of tomorrows wows of things which we can't even fathom or control.

    Myself, I enjoy change.


    therefore :The Arctic is melting, the Antarctic is freezing. What does this mean?

    It means just that.....The Arctic is melting, the Antarctic is freezing.
    Last edited by Vitalux; 21st September 2012 at 14:17.

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    Default Re: The Arctic is melting, the Antarctic is freezing. What does this mean?

    Arctic ice is melting --> humid Arctic air --> therefore, this:
    From Robert Felix's site: http://iceagenow.info/2012/09/thousands-sheep-buried-alive-snowdrifts-video/

    Thousands of sheep buried alive in snowdrifts – Video
    By Robert On September 16, 2012 ·

    “Unprecedented” cold and snow in Iceland.

    Thousands of sheep (13,000) buried alive in snowdrifts is nothing short of disastrous.

    Here’s a video showing the rescue of a sheep buried by snow.



    Snow in North Iceland in early September is not unheard of but snowfall of two to three meters overnight at this time of year—when the sheep are still in highland pastures—is highly unusual.

    Two to three meters (7-11 feet) of snow overnight! That’s a small taste of what the mammoths experienced.

    [...]

    Record snowfall

    According to the Iceland Review Online, “it is believed to be a new record for snowfall at this time of the year”.

    http://www.icelandreview.com/iceland...3526.news.aspx http://climaterealists.com/?id=10227

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVEXreQirrk

    http://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/2...comment-134307

    http://www.icelandreview.com/iceland...3377.news.aspx

    Thanks to Robert van deLeur, Laurel, Michael Gribble, Greg Mantle and Eunice Farmilant for these links.

    *******************************************

    That means there is an actual "global warming" occurring which increases the atmospheric humidity which, in turn, gets dumped as snow around the polar areas. That's how ice ages start.

    The main difference between Arctic and Antarctic is that the ice in the Arctic sits on sea water whereas in the Antarctic, glaciers sit on land. Hence in the Arctic, ice gets warmed up at both ends; above and below.

    To screw up things even more, the Thermohaline Conveyor Belt (Gulf Stream) is missing its Gulf of Mexico feeder and falls short of reaching the North Atlantic areas (British Isles, Iceland) which further compounds the problem with keeping the jet stream (the frontier between cold Arctic air and warm tropical air) south of where it should be. That's gona make for a nasty winter for Northern European countries.
    Last edited by Hervé; 21st September 2012 at 14:35.
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    Default Re: The Arctic is melting, the Antarctic is freezing. What does this mean?

    It means we only have limited data, based upon out scientific techniques and technology, and we are still learning how this planet functions. It seems by the time we have learnt about how the Earth and it eco systems work, it will be too polluted and damaged beyond repair, hence not more mankind or life of any kind. This is why there is always conflicting information. Freezing, melting, national phenomena according to some etc, etc...etc.....

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    Default Re: The Arctic is melting, the Antarctic is freezing. What does this mean?

    Perhaps the same slow wobble of the earth that already exists is causing a dynamic by which the N and S hemispheres are subject to differential heating and cooling. The wobble takes so much time to move that changes would fist occur slowly. Next a tipping point would be reached and we would see a rapid change in what is happening. The same wobble of the earth that causes the procession of the zodiac could easily cause climate differences over its long cycle. It causes the mid latitudes to be heated and cooled enough to change things. The amount of time involved for these changes to occur are not easily comprehended by most people. This dynamic may have caused the last N. Hemisphere ice age. Perhaps it is time for a southern hemisphere ice age. Given the scheme set forth here that's the way it would work.

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    Default Re: The Arctic is melting, the Antarctic is freezing. What does this mean?

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    -------

    One thought that occurred to me is that if the build-up of ice is asymmetrical, then this might create a very slight wobble on the spinning mass of the planet. I have no idea what effects that might trigger (or if the wobble would be large enough to create a knock-on effect).
    Assymetrical from one pole to the other but still evenly distributed about the rotation axis and therefore it's a no-change with respect to generating a wobble.

    What would be different is the building of a land mass -- let's say a growing volcanic island -- somewhere on the Equator... like out of the Mid Atlantic Ocean Ridge...
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    Default Re: The Arctic is melting, the Antarctic is freezing. What does this mean?

    Quote Posted by Amzer Zo (here)
    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    -------

    One thought that occurred to me is that if the build-up of ice is asymmetrical, then this might create a very slight wobble on the spinning mass of the planet. I have no idea what effects that might trigger (or if the wobble would be large enough to create a knock-on effect).
    Assymetrical from one pole to the other but still evenly distributed about the rotation axis and therefore it's a no-change with respect to generating a wobble.

    What would be different is the building of a land mass -- let's say a growing volcanic island -- somewhere on the Equator... like out of the Mid Atlantic Ocean Ridge...
    Think of a spinning ice skater.
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    Default Re: The Arctic is melting, the Antarctic is freezing. What does this mean?

    Quote Posted by 13th Warrior (here)
    Quote Posted by Amzer Zo (here)
    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    -------

    One thought that occurred to me is that if the build-up of ice is asymmetrical, then this might create a very slight wobble on the spinning mass of the planet. I have no idea what effects that might trigger (or if the wobble would be large enough to create a knock-on effect).
    Assymetrical from one pole to the other but still evenly distributed about the rotation axis and therefore it's a no-change with respect to generating a wobble.

    What would be different is the building of a land mass -- let's say a growing volcanic island -- somewhere on the Equator... like out of the Mid Atlantic Ocean Ridge...
    Think of a spinning ice skater.
    ... with only one arm folding in, the other remaining extended... won't stay on the ice for long .
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    Default Re: The Arctic is melting, the Antarctic is freezing. What does this mean?

    Quote Posted by Amzer Zo (here)
    To screw up things even more, the Thermohaline Conveyor Belt (Gulf Stream) is missing its Gulf of Mexico feeder and falls short of reaching the North Atlantic areas (British Isles, Iceland) which further compounds the problem with keeping the jet stream (the frontier between cold Arctic air and warm tropical air) south of where it should be. That's gonna make for a nasty winter for Northern European countries.
    Yes, I could feel that in the weather and the wind, already.

    As far as the arctic melting, I had read that this would cause high humidity and drought issues elsewhere, very much like an added mass and added energetic in the rotating and flowing air below, the various jet stream components. That the atmospheric patterns would be come more stratified, like the surface appearance of Jupiter, Neptune, Uranus, etc. Striped patterning that is more obvious than it is now, on earth. This would also give rise to more storms, is the likely scenario, along the changeover areas of the stratification. A minor movement in that overall direction, year on year.

    (to clarify, I was looking at atlases and such when I was 12-13 years old or so, worrying about arctic and antarctic melts and rising sea levels. looking at these emergent issues. that's 35 years ago)

    The paradox that the cool humid air off the arctic expanding... is that this would give the impression of freezing issues, just below that of the arctic and also the added humidity would cause both reflection and absorption issues, thermally, in the atmosphere. all this causes a well nigh unpredictable mix. thus, more shocking and sudden weather extremes,and shifted patterns.

    All this besides anything involving chemtrails, spraying or potential HAARP issues, besides that of the Sun behaving differently, ie the solar system behaving differently.

    So, to concur with Amer Zo, it is apparently a case of the humidity going to the place where a real freeze is happening, and that is the antarctic.

    And if it goes to the antarctic, it is like a porcupine quill....it is probably not coming back out any time soon. That all advance in ice and snow in the antarctic, regarding short term aspects, is likely to not come back out again. That there may possibly be a 'year on year' advance in the antarctic mass.
    Last edited by Carmody; 21st September 2012 at 15:15.
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    Default Re: The Arctic is melting, the Antarctic is freezing. What does this mean?

    Quote Posted by Amzer Zo (here)
    What would be different is the building of a land mass -- let's say a growing volcanic island -- somewhere on the Equator... like out of the Mid Atlantic Ocean Ridge...
    Something like this? http://geology.com/usgs/loihi-seamount/

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    Default Re: The Arctic is melting, the Antarctic is freezing. What does this mean?

    Personally, I don't think Anyone truly 'Knows Why'... we have some good guesses, based on what 'experts' observe and postulate about, but little else of substance. None of us alive and no civilization or their records has lasted long enough to document the cycles, although I suspect that "Someone" could fill us in on what's happening, and is going to 'happen'.

    And, no, I don't think human production of CO2 is a major source of the problem and this has been somewhat verified by some researchers. (sorry, don't have the time to find the link to the rather illustrative video that described this, but I know it's around) Just the same, I'd prefer to see a paradigm change in how we acquire and use energy - and I see this happening soon - but Never soon enough, IMO.

    Ultimately, I also don't think that anyone of us will last 'long enough' to worry about any major climatic changes into a new 'normal'. However, we will experience the fluctuation of said changes and I suspect that is what we are seeing now.

    Go with the Flow, I say!

    In Unity, Peace and Love

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