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Thread: The Arctic is melting, the Antarctic is freezing. What does this mean?

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    Default Re: The Arctic is melting, the Antarctic is freezing. What does this mean?

    Quote Posted by rgray222 (here)
    Claude Allegre, ...

    [...]
    About time for some truths to come out of this guy's mouth and finger tips... must be getting weak with old age... like with the debates over El Hierro between so-called "scientists" which are politician in disguises and real scientists, Allegre is a politician.

    ... check the fiasco he got into with Haroun Tazieff regarding eruptions in the French Antilles.
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    Default Re: The Arctic is melting, the Antarctic is freezing. What does this mean?

    Yes it will make for some lovely ski weather in teh Northern European countries. Hopefully they will make use of that "extra water supply" and give freely to the drought areas, in exchange for produce. Neighborly behaviors of love and caring can spread around the world. Nutrition and Poverty are our biggest enemies, and those who cause the miseries generation after generation are going to answer for it dearly.

    As ye sow, so shall ye reap.

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    Default Re: The Arctic is melting, the Antarctic is freezing. What does this mean?

    From: http://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/02/2...as-paused-too/

    Fact check for Andrew Glikson – Ocean heat has paused too
    Posted on February 25, 2013 by Anthony Watts

    Over at The Conversation Andrew Glikson asks Fact check: has global warming paused? citing an old Skeptical Science favorite graph, and that’s the problem; it’s old data. He writes:
    As some 90% of the global heat rise is trapped in the oceans (since 1950, more than 20×1022 joules), the ocean heat level reflects global warming more accurately than land and atmosphere warming. The heat content of the ocean has risen since about 2000 by about 4×1022 joules.

    To summarise, claims that warming has paused over the last 16 years (1997-2012) take no account of ocean heating.


    Figure 3: Build-up in Earth’s total heat content. http://www.skepticalscience.com/docs...nt_on_DK12.pdf

    Hmmm, if “…ocean heat level reflects global warming more accurately than land and atmosphere warming…” I wonder what he and the SkS team will have to say about this graph from NOAA Pacific Marine Environment Laboratory (PMEL) using more up to date data from the ARGO buoy system?

    Sure looks like a pause to me, especially after steep rises in OHC from 1997-2003. Note the highlighted period in yellow:


    The plot shows the 18-year trend in 0-700 m Ocean Heat Content Anomaly (OHCA) estimated from in situ data according to Lyman et al. 2010. The error bars include uncertainties from baseline climatology, mapping method, sampling, and XBT bias correction.

    Historical data are from XBTs, CTDs, moorings, and other sources. Additional displays of the upper OHCA are available in the Plots section.
    As Dr. Sheldon Cooper would say: “Bazinga!

    h/t to Dr. Roger Pielke Sr. for the PMEL graph.


    UPDATE: See the above graph converted to temperature anomaly in this post [reproduced in part, below].


    Ocean Temperature And Heat Content
    Posted on February 25, 2013by Willis Eschenbach
    Guest Post by Willis Eschenbach

    Anthony has an interesting post up discussing the latest findings regarding the heat content of the upper ocean.

    He notes that there has been no significant change in the OHCA in the last decade. It’s a significant piece of information. I still have a problem with the graph, however, which is that the units are meaningless to me. What does a change of 10 zeta-joules mean? So following my usual practice, I converted the graph to a more familiar units, degrees C. Let me explain how I went about that.

    To start with, I digitized the data from the graph. Often this is far, far quicker than tracking down the initial dataset, particularly if the graph contains the errors. I work on the Mac, so I use a program called GraphClick, I’m sure the same or better is available on the PC. I measured three series: the data, the plus error, and the minus error. I then put this data into an Excel spreadsheet, available here.

    Then all that remained was to convert the change in zeta-joules to the corresponding change in degrees C. The first number I need is the volume of the top 700 metres of the ocean. I have a spreadsheet for this. Interpolated, it says 237,029,703 cubic kilometres. I multiply that by 62/60 to adjust for the density of salt vs. fresh water, and multiply by 10^9 to convert to tonnes. I multiply that by 4.186 mega-joules per tonne per degree C. That tells me that it takes about a thousand zeta-joules to raise the upper ocean temperature by 1°C.

    Dividing all of the numbers in their chart by that conversion factor gives us their chart, in units of degrees C. Calculations are shown on the spreadsheet.


    Figure 2. Upper ocean heat content anomaly, 0-700 metres, in degrees C.


    I don’t plan to say a whole lot about that, I’ll leave it to the commenters, other than to point out the following facts:

    • The temperature was roughly flat from 1993-1998. Then it increased by about one tenth of a degree in the next five years to 2003, and has been about flat since then.

    • The claim is made that the average temperature of the entire upper ocean of the planet is currently known to an error (presumably one sigma) of about a hundredth of a degree C.

    • I know of no obvious reason for the 0.1°C temperature rise 1998-2003, nor for the basically flat temperatures before and after.

    • The huge increase in observations post 2002 from the addition of the Argo floats didn’t reduce the error by a whole lot.

    My main question in this revolves around the claimed error. I find the claim that we know the average temperature of the upper ocean with an error of only one hundredth of a degree to be very unlikely … the ocean is huge beyond belief. This claimed ocean error is on the order of the size of the claimed error in the land temperature records, which have many more stations, taking daily records, over a much smaller area, at only one level. Doubtful.

    I also find it odd that the very large increase in the number of annual observations due to the more than 3,000 Argo floats didn’t decrease the error much …

    As is common in climate science … more questions than answers. Why did it go up?
    Why is it now flat? Which way will the frog jump next?

    Regards to everyone,

    w.


    Last edited by Hervé; 17th March 2013 at 01:07.
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    Default Re: The Arctic is melting, the Antarctic is freezing. What does this mean?

    Awesome Amzer!
    I had never considered that... of course the oceans are a vast heat store...
    and bearing in mind that 80% of the worlds volcanos are under the oceans, the graph also indicates that they havent been more heat that usual...

    cheers!

    meat

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    Default Re: The Arctic is melting, the Antarctic is freezing. What does this mean?

    Ice breakers astounded at record spread of ice on the Baltic Sea

    By Robert On April 6, 2013 · 3 Comments

    Late-season freeze sets Baltic ice record – Scientists say they have never seen anything like it.

    “Since record keeping began in the sixties, we’ve never encountered anything like this before,” ice breaker Ulf Gulldne told the local newspaper Örnsköldsviks Allehanda.
    On March 29th, 176,000 square kilometers of the Baltic Sea was covered in ice, a record for the time of year.

    “I’ve never seen this much ice this late in the season,” said Karl Herlin, captain of the icebreaker Atle, currently working off the coast of Luleå in northern Sweden.

    This past week has been the busiest week for the Atle so far this winter.

    The Swedish Maritime Administration (Sjöfartsverket) has all its five icebreaking crews in service at the moment.

    “The cold is unusually stubborn, as normally the ice would have started to melt by now,” said Torbjörn Grafström at the Swedish Meteorological and Hydrological Institute (SMHI).

    Forecasters had expected the Baltic ice to reach its maximum in late January,
    http://www.thelocal.se/47154/20130405/#.UWAi7ZNJO30
    http://notrickszone.com/2013/04/06/b...in-the-season/


    Thanks to Laurel, Kirk Myers and Sonya Porter for these links
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    Default Re: The Arctic is melting, the Antarctic is freezing. What does this mean?

    Whether it's global warming or a new ice age, the culprit is still the same: CO2


    From http://iceagenow.info/2013/04/nasa-s...s-atmosphere/:

    NASA – New study shows that CO2 COOLS atmosphere
    By Robert On April 20, 2013 · 60 Comments

    Carbon dioxide acts as a coolant in Earth’s atmosphere, says new NASA report.



    “NASA’s Langley Research Center has collated data proving that “greenhouse gases” actually block up to 95 percent of harmful solar rays from reaching our planet, thus reducing the heating impact of the sun,” says to this article on principia-scientific.org.

    “The data was collected by Sounding of the Atmosphere using Broadband Emission Radiometry, (or SABER). SABER monitors infrared emissions from Earth’s upper atmosphere, in particular from carbon dioxide (CO2) and nitric oxide (NO), two substances thought to be playing a key role in the energy balance of air above our planet’s surface.”

    “Carbon dioxide and nitric oxide are natural thermostats,” explains James Russell of Hampton University, SABER’s principal investigator. “When the upper atmosphere (or ‘thermosphere’) heats up, these molecules try as hard as they can to shed that heat back into space.”
    Quote Ain’t science great? First they “prove” that CO2 warms the atmosphere. Now they “prove” that it cools the atmosphere.
    Either way, you’re the culprit, and you must pay higher taxes. What a racket!
    See entire article:
    http://principia-scientific.org/supp...4bXF4.facebook
    Thanks to Steven Rowlandson and Jeff Rense for this link
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    Default Re: The Arctic is melting, the Antarctic is freezing. What does this mean?

    Temperatures falling – CO2 levels rising

    By Robert On April 26, 2013 · 30 Comments

    But our leaders still insist that rising CO2 levels cause global warming. Where’s the correlation?


    Worldwide temperatures have been falling since 1998 while CO2 levels have been steadily rising.

    It is so obvious that CO2 levels do not cause global warming.

    How can so many scientists be so blind? Does the fear of losing their funding affect them that much?
    I love how Joe Bastardi puts it: All they have left is excuses, not reasons.
    http://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpre...01658-gr11.jpg

    Thanks to meteorologist Joe Bastardi for this link
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    Default Re: The Arctic is melting, the Antarctic is freezing. What does this mean?

    Joe Bastardi On Global Cooling: "The Fall Is Very Very Plain To See...You'll See This Trend Continue"

    P Gosselin, No Tricks Zone, Fri, 26 Apr 2013 16:45 CDT


    © Joe Bastardi

    I'm late this time around with meteorologist Joe Bastardi's Saturday Summary (4/20). If you haven't seen it, then do take the few minutes to do so. He has a short outlook for the coming years.

    He starts by showing the global temperature for the last 4 years: "...you can see the fall that is occurring; it's very plain to see".

    Image left: Snapshot of Joe Bastardi's Saturday Summary (4/20).

    Of course four years do not make a trend. But they do come after 11 years of stagnation. After 11 years of no warming, one would think the warming would finally resume. Instead just the opposite has occurred - and it has been cooling amazingly fast (almost 0.4°C) - thus completely defying the models. Boy, the oceans must have one big appetite!

    If the last four years had seen warming, all the alarmists would be jumping up and down right now, hollering that global warming has resumed and that we're all doomed.

    Bastardi:
    I've seen some outrageous statements being made lately, just simply denying the facts that the previous 12, 13 years have been level. And now you see it falling off. This is because the Pacific Decadal Oscillation has flipped. Though there are much more important things facing our country today, and facing the globe in general, this issue has really been blown out of proportion compared to the importance of some other things. In my opinion, even though I'm involved in it, you might think: 'You get a lot of attention, why are you trying to downplay it?' Because it's a joke! Alright, the global temperatures respond to the sun, the ocean, the large-scale drivers, and not to the other things.

    If you just watch as an objective person, if you watch over the coming years, you'll see this trend continue. Just like you can't deny it was going up when the oceans were warming up in the 80s - from the very cold levels of the 60s and 70s - you can't deny that it's going down now."

    Are Rob Honeycutt and his buddy Dana listening?


    Last I heard is that they've turned to blaming the oceans for eating up all the lost warming. Unfortunately for them, the bet was on RSS and UAH trends, and not the temperature down somewhere in the ocean depths.

    They shouldn't take it too hard, though, because it's for charity. And besides, it should come to them as a relief that the world isn't going to burn up like they thought (or hoped?) it would.
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    Default Re: The Arctic is melting, the Antarctic is freezing. What does this mean?

    climate feedback loops and methane expulsion related to geoengineering might be one explanation

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    Default Re: The Arctic is melting, the Antarctic is freezing. What does this mean?

    I've just spent a very frustrating half hour listening to a group of 'academics' discussing the recent report that scientists are now 95% certain humans are causing climate change and that the science is settled and it's time to get on with policy making.

    No mention was made of the climate change on other planets in the solar system. No mention was made of HARRP. No mention was made of an ongoing geoengineering program. No mention was made of the global network of underground bases and tunnels.They only mentioned the Arctic, not once was the Antarctic mentioned.

    But they are saying the science is settled !

    Jeez, I felt like grabbing the smug pseudo boffins around the throat and screaming at them.
    .................................................. my first language is TYPO..............................................

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    Default Re: The Arctic is melting, the Antarctic is freezing. What does this mean?

    German Scientists: Solar Cycle 24 Points To Dalton Or Maunder-Like Minimum, Boding Ill For A Climate Cooling

    The Sun in October 2013 – Minimum lies ahead
    By Frank Bosse and Fritz Vahrenholt
    (Translated by P Gosselin on 11. November 2013)

    In October 2013 there was a considerable rise in solar activity as the sunspot number (SSN) climbed to 85.6. That’s 77% of the mean value reached at this time into a solar cycle since 1750. The following diagram shows the current situation:


    SSN versus months since the start of the cycle

    October 2013 deviates significantly from solar cycle number 5. However we continue to believe that SC 24 will be similar to SC 5. Just how large the uncertainties of the correct description of the 5th cycle is shown by a recently published paper by Rainer Arlt of the Leibniz Institute Potsdam and Ilya Usoskin of the Finnish University of Oulo, who after examining the solar cycles between 1750 und 1850 reached the conclusion that the sunspot count should be lowered by 20%. SC 24 shown by the red curve is, however, still very much below average of SC 1-23, let alone well below the large cycles of the solar maximums from 1940 – 1990.

    Also in October 2013 mainly the southern hemisphere (SH) of our sun was active. In a comparison of the cycles with each other (here the SSN anomaly thus far up to the current cycle month) we see that the accumulated sunspot number is between SC5 and SC 14:


    Current cycle indicate we are entering a Dalton-like minimum

    In a recent publication in Space Science Reviews (2013), renowned solar scientists Ken McCracken, Juerg Beer, Friedhelm Steinhilber and Jose Abreu studied the solar minimums over the last 9300 years. Based on measurements of beryllium and carbon isotopes as indicators for the intensity of cosmic rays, which are modulated by solar activity, the scientists arrived at the result that the minimum of 2007 to 2009 had similar characteristics as the minimums occurring during the time of the Dalton Minimums of 1780 to 1820. They discovered a 208-year periodicity (Suess-de Vries) of a grand solar minimum in the past. Therefore they anticipate in the near future the events of a Dalton Minimum, but not a Maunder Minimum.

    Lockwood sees elevated chance of a Maunder-like minimum
    Another established solar scientist, Prof. Michael Lockwood of the University of Reading, has pointed out that solar activity since the end of the last century has diminished more strongly than it ever has in all the earlier times of the last 9000 years. Lockwood found 24 solar minimum in the last 9000 years, and nowhere did solar activity drop so strongly as it has in the current period. He now sees the probability of another Maunder Minimums at 25- 30%. Just a few years ago he said the probability of a Maunder Minimum re-occurring was 8%. Consequently Lockwood: “We found a significant relationship between the occurrence of cold winters in Europe and solar activity.“ The probable mechanism is the change in the solar UV radiation, which has an influence of the temperature gradient, ozone formation, and the winds in the stratosphere. This in turn disrupts the Jetstream in the northern hemisphere, leads to blocking weather patterns, and to easterly winds that lead to cold spells.

    Already in our September report 2013 concerning the publication by Ermolli et al we pointed to a much more strongly variable UV radiation within a solar cycle then what is observed in the overall total radiation (factor 2-6). Weaker solar cycles have a considerably weaker UV radiation and lead to cold periods in the northern hemisphere. Unfortunately the measurements can no longer be continued because the SORCE satellite, which measures the radiation of the sun above the atmosphere, has stopped functioning because of battery damage, and so the cold winters that lie ahead will have to be endured without satellite UV measurements.

    And we introduce a third publication. In it Friedrich Steinhilber and Jürg Beer are venturing a look at the next 500 years using two different methods. Here, phi is a measure of solar activity. M marks the Maunder Minimum, D the Dalton Minimum and G the weaker Gleisberg Minimum of 1900:



    ====================================
    Other reading: wsj.com/news/8.
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    Default Re: The Arctic is melting, the Antarctic is freezing. What does this mean?

    Taken from today's Guardian online, showing that not only are climate scientists lousy forecasters, they have very short memories too.

    Quote ID0667935 13 November 2013 10:54am

    Recommend 32

    Madranon - "Roll on climate denialists and assorted wacky conspiracy theorists."
    Seems the wacky ones are the ones making these dumb predictions - some scientists!
    1. Within a few years "children just aren't going to know what snow is." Snowfall will be "a very rare and exciting event." Dr. David Viner, senior research scientist at the climatic research unit (CRU) of the University of East Anglia, interviewed by the UK Independent, March 20, 2000.
    Ten years later, in December 2009, London was hit by the heaviest snowfall seen in 20 years.
    2. "[By] 1995, the greenhouse effect would be desolating the heartlands of North America and Eurasia with horrific drought, causing crop failures and food riots…[By 1996] The Platte River of Nebraska would be dry, while a continent-wide black blizzard of prairie topsoil will stop traffic on interstates, strip paint from houses and shut down computers." Michael Oppenheimer, published in "Dead Heat," St. Martin's Press, 1990.
    3. "Arctic specialist Bernt Balchen says a general warming trend over the North Pole is melting the polar ice cap and may produce an ice-free Arctic Ocean by the year 2000." Christian Science Monitor, June 8, 1972.
    4. "Using computer models, researchers concluded that global warming would raise average annual temperatures nationwide two degrees by 2010." Associated Press, May 15, 1989.
    5. "By 1985, air pollution will have reduced the amount of sunlight reaching earth by one half." Life magazine, January 1970.
    6. "If present trends continue, the world will be ... eleven degrees colder by the year 2000. This is about twice what it would take to put us in an ice age." Kenneth E.F. Watt, in "Earth Day," 1970.
    7. "By the year 2000 the United Kingdom will be simply a small group of impoverished islands, inhabited by some 70 million hungry people ... If I were a gambler, I would take even money that England will not exist in the year 2000." Ehrlich, Speech at British Institute For Biology, September 1971.
    Ehrlich's prediction was taken seriously when he made it, and New Scientist magazine underscored his speech in an editorial titled "In Praise of Prophets."
    8. "In ten years all important animal life in the sea will be extinct. Large areas of coastline will have to be evacuated because of the stench of dead fish." Ehrlich, speech during Earth Day, 1970
    And there are hundreds of more predictions from these "scientists" slaving away over their dodgy computer models that are just as dumb. More and more mainstream scientists are questioning the unproven theory that C02 can cause global warming particularly as global temperatures have remained pretty constant over the past twenty years despite and increase in C02 levels.


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    Default Re: The Arctic is melting, the Antarctic is freezing. What does this mean?

    Global warming (Global Warning Doh!) (for whatever reason) Moisture being sucked out of the atmos and dumped at a higher rate as snow in one area! Well things will seem very warm where the rain stops falling .
    Well I can say it don't sound too good ha!
    If this keeps on happening? do we go Ice planet? Less atmos moisture/less heat?
    I,ve always said to any people I might come in contact with that things are never simple; a warming of some kind yes (natural or man made?) but it will fluctuate in areas! up and down, hot and cold where will the ball will land?

    Just another one of their PTB well invested underground hi tech city uses.
    I'm a simple easy going guy that is very upset/sad with the worlds hidden controllers!
    We need LEADERS who bat from the HEART!
    Rise up above them Dark evil doers, not within anger but with LOVE

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    Default Re: The Arctic is melting, the Antarctic is freezing. What does this mean?

    There it comes... by bucket-loads...


    First snow of the 2013 season breaks records

    Weather Channel again recognizes Valdez as snowiest US city

    November 13, 2013 | Vol. 25 Edition 46



    Valdez Star photo
    The 29.3 inches of snow – with record rain mixed in – was too heavy for this spruce tree which was growing out of the mountain ledge along Mile 8 of the Richardson Highway.


    Sunday marked the first measurable snow day in Valdez and it was a record breaker according to the National Weather Service.

    A respectable 24.4 inches of snow fell Sunday, beating the old November 10 record of 19.1 inches set in 1994.

    But before the Valdez Buccaneer Ski team trades in water skis for snow skis, it is worth mentioning that Sunday also broke the record for precipitation on that date, with the weather service reporting 2.10 inches of rain mixing with that record snow.

    "The old record precipitation from November 10 was 1.77 inches from 1976," the weather service website said. "This brings the total precipitation for the year to 86.94 inches...which is the third highest annual total."

    Unfortunately for those tasked with shoveling, driving, plowing or having to go outside on Veteran's Day, the mix of rain and snow continued most of the day Monday. At 2 p.m. the weather service reported an additional 4.6 inches of snow. Combine that with 2.31 inches worth of rain (also a record for November 11) on top of Sunday's rain and snow and you get 20 inches of slushy muck. Or as the weather service reports it, a combined snow depth of 20 inches. That rose to 22 inches by Tuesday morning.

    The average yearly precipitation in Valdez between September 1 and November 11 is 19.84 inches. The weather service says 38.21 inches had been recorded as of Monday. This beats out last year's recorded rainfall of 33.95 inches.

    The snowfall average between September 1 and November 11 is 23.5 inches. Last year at this time, the town had a paltry 8.4 inches of autumn snow by that date.

    While the rest of Alaska battled numerous winter storms – some quite severe - and icy conditions in late October and early November, Valdez mostly cruised through early autumn with warm temperatures and little ice.

    The current weather forecast from Tuesday morning says Valdez can expect milder conditions through the weekend according to Mark Byrd, a traveling weather technician currently working at the Valdez office of the weather service.

    "There's nothing significant in the forecast for quite awhile," he said, maybe some scattered snow showers Thursday. "Nothing too heavy duty coming at us."


    This week's record snow and rain days are timely; last Thursday, the Weather Channel (once again) recognized Valdez as the snowiest city not only in Alaska, but in the USA.

    Valdez "clobbers the competition" according the Weather Channel website.


    Valdez Star photo
    Snow Town looked more like the Windy City last Wednesday when gusty winds up to 38 miles per hour brought a distinct chill to the air. While the winds were mild compared to past storms this time of year, the plastic sheeting covering the top of the city's not-yet-complete maintenance shop billowed in the air.

    The second snowiest city in the nation, Crested Butte, Montana, boasts a yearly average of 215.3 inches of snow. Valdez averages 326.3 inches (27.2 feet) per year.

    The Weather Channel asked the question, "Why do they get so much?"

    According to its meteorologists, the mountains surrounding Valdez are just one of several primary causes.

    "These mountains don't completely block cold air in the Alaskan interior from reaching Valdez. Instead, north to northeast winds channel through mountain valleys. Cold air can also drain from glaciers and mountain snowfields into the city, especially at night," the Weather Channel explains. "Secondly, one of the most common low pressure systems on the planet, the "Aleutian low", sets up camp to the southwest of Valdez in the colder months. When this happens, copious Pacific moisture pumps into southern Alaska. If cold air is in place, as described above, you guessed it, heavy snow results."

    Stay tuned folks..., there is always more snow in this goofy little town.
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    Default Re: The Arctic is melting, the Antarctic is freezing. What does this mean?

    I believe the Forbes piece aims to mislead by implying we have a kind of zero sum game going on. This little news brief from NASA JPL on the increase in the antarctic sea ice extent gives a more complete picture than that afforded by the Forbes piece.

    http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.php?release=2012-355

    As I read it there is an increase in the strength of westerlies (due to warmer climate) which will cause a general sea ice drift to the north, hence expanding the total field. I may try to get ahold of my former colleagues a HASA for their thoughts on this, particularly Dr. Claire Parkinson who some years ago published a comprehensive antarctic sea ice atlas.

    Similarly misleading to me is the report of increased snow cover. This can come about with increased water transport in warmer air leading to more precipitation in the form of snow. And this can go on while at the same time the warmer glacier bottoms allow faster flow of the glaciers into the sea. Also some ice shelves appear to be on the verge of breaking up. Again, I should have to study the literature more to get a better feel for the situation.
    Last edited by Frederick Jackson; 17th November 2013 at 09:47.

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    Default Re: The Arctic is melting, the Antarctic is freezing. What does this mean?

    From: http://notrickszone.com/2013/11/22/a...t-2-3-decades/


    Austrian Meteorologists Stupefied Into Silence! Data From Alps Show Marked Cooling Over Last 2-3 Decades!

    By P Gosselin on 22. November 2013

    Perhaps you’ve been wondering why the alarmists have been so shrill lately? It’s not because the climate is overheating, to the contrary it’s beginning to cool – and so their sham is about to be blown out into the open for everyone to see.


    Austrian meteorological data show that European Alps have been cooling, at times massively, over the last 20 years. Public domain photo.

    Evaluated data from the Austrian ZAMG meteorological institute now unmistakably show that the Alps have been cooling over the last 20 years and longer, “at some places massively“ thus crassly contradicting all the loud claims, projections, and model sceanrios made earlier by global warming scientists.

    German meteorologist Dominik Jung reports on the data he himself evaluated from the European Alps and concludes at the German-language Huffington Post here:
    We are obviously very far away from milder winters. The trend actually is moving in the opposite direction! A few years ago climatologists advised winter sports locations in the Alps to reduce their investments in winter sports facilities – because of the ever increasing mean temperatures, they soon would not be worth it. So we ask ourselves, which increasing temperatures are the ladies and gentlemen even talking about?”
    Some places have seen “massive cooling”
    According to an expert review conducted by the Zentralanstalt für Meteorologie und Geodynamik (ZAMG), the Austrian state weather service, using weather data from the last 20 years or more: “Winters there indeed are shown to have gotten colder over the last 20 years, and in some places quite massively. The last two winters at Kitzbühel were in fact the coldest of the last 20 years.”

    Jung then writes that also four other high elevation stations in the Alps were assessed: Zugspitze in Germany, Schmittenhöhe in Austria, Sonnblick in Austria and Säntis in Switzerland. Result:
    They all yielded the same amazing result: Winters in the Alps over the last decades have become significantly colder, the data show.”
    Jung writes that data from extra long datasets from 20 to 30 years were examined, “just like climatologists always insist.”

    Jung then informs readers that he asked the Austrian meteorological experts on site what they thought of the results. According to Jung, the reaction was either dead silence induced by shock, or attempts to downplay the results. Had the data shown warming instead, then of course we would be hearing just the opposite of silence and downplaying…we’d be hearing the hysterical screams of bloody climate murder!

    Humiliated science
    Jung speculates that the reason meteorologists and climatologists don’t want to hear about the results is because “it doesn’t fit with their world view.” After all, just a few years ago they were cock-sure about their predictions of winters without snow and that skiing was only going to be possible at extremely high elevations. Science just possibly could not be humiliated to a greater extent.

    Near the end of his Huffington Post essay, Jung comments that it appears that “climate warming has become a religion. Those belonging to it do not tolerate new findings“, even those that stem from solid observations and measurements.

    Meteorologist Jung concludes that it’s almost scandalous that the responsible authorities are simply ignoring these findings.
    Last edited by Hervé; 23rd November 2013 at 12:49.
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    Default Re: The Arctic is melting, the Antarctic is freezing. What does this mean?

    The really pathetic thing about the warming scam is the Manichean way it is suggested that anyone claiming otherwise is in bed with Big Oil. So let's be clear on one thing: both Big Oil and dodgy science are causes of trashing the planet and both have got to go.


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    Default Re: The Arctic is melting, the Antarctic is freezing. What does this mean?

    I am not a scientist. But if global warming was true. Then I would expect sea levels to drop if the ice melts. Is there more land mass at the poles or more ice? Since ice is mostly below below the water line. I think. Maybe it's not. But if it is, shouldn't the water levels drop. Somebody can explain. I could look it up. But I like to question here.

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    Default Re: The Arctic is melting, the Antarctic is freezing. What does this mean?

    Quote Posted by Christine Lori (here)
    I am not a scientist. But if global warming was true. Then I would expect sea levels to drop if the ice melts. Is there more land mass at the poles or more ice? Since ice is mostly below below the water line. I think. Maybe it's not. But if it is, shouldn't the water levels drop. Somebody can explain. I could look it up. But I like to question here.
    Pretty good thinking going on there Christine...

    The only way sea level can rise a bit is if land glaciers melted.

    Otherwise, the Arctic Sea ice melting wouldn't change much of the sea level since ice is less dense than water and occupies a larger immersed volume in the sea as ice than as water... the loss of the equivalent volume by melting being compensated by the 1/10th of the whole volume above the ice flotation line... I guess people never heard of Achimedes' principle... but one can get an idea with ice cubes in a glass of water and see if, when the ice melts, the water level in the glass is going to: rise and spill over, remain unchanged or decrease...
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    Default Re: The Arctic is melting, the Antarctic is freezing. What does this mean?

    Quote Posted by Christine Lori (here)
    I am not a scientist. But if global warming was true. Then I would expect sea levels to drop if the ice melts. Is there more land mass at the poles or more ice? Since ice is mostly below below the water line. I think. Maybe it's not. But if it is, shouldn't the water levels drop. Somebody can explain. I could look it up. But I like to question here.
    For what it is worth Christine, I have a personal friend who as part of his study to get his PhD in environmental chemistry a few years ago, went on a polar expedition to study ice levels. Upon conclusion of his theses he reported that in the past 100 years, ice world ice levels were about the same. In areas of the world where the ice was receding, at the opposite poles ice was accumulating.

    In other words, antarctic was gaining just about as much ice as the North pole was losing.
    Further, he and I had a discussion where it was his educated guess that human beings had about as much ability to change the climate by Carbon dioxide emissions as we had to change the climate on the Moon by farting.

    The whole concept of global warming, in my opinion, is for fear mongering.


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