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Thread: The Arctic is melting, the Antarctic is freezing. What does this mean?

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    Virgin Islands Avalon Member TargeT's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Arctic is melting, the Antarctic is freezing. What does this mean?

    Quote Posted by 13th Warrior (here)
    Coastal and near coastal temperatures tend to be more stable because of the buffering effect of the water body.
    Alaska does have a lot of coast line, but it has a LOT of land mass as well.. I'm not speaking just of the town I live in, I manage assets all over Alaska & often have to travel to them, what I posted is a generalization of the entirety of Alaska.

    Quote Posted by MorningSong (here)
    Look at this interactive site.... it shows the varous levels of Sea Ice Area in the Artic... the yellow line is 2012.. shows and increase in ice this past winter and a huge loss this summer.....

    http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosph...teractive.html
    I could see this being the case, the constant cloud cover keeps a lot of "warmth" in, especialy in the artic circle and above.
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    Default Re: The Arctic is melting, the Antarctic is freezing. What does this mean?

    This article is a must read for anyone truely wanting to understand the topic in the OP, IMO:

    http://nsidc.org/cryosphere/sotc/sea_ice.html



    Last edited by MorningSong; 21st September 2012 at 20:30.
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    Default Re: The Arctic is melting, the Antarctic is freezing. What does this mean?

    More charts:





    Quote Arctic sea ice extent settles at record seasonal minimum
    September 19, 2012

    On September 16, Arctic sea ice appeared to have reached its minimum extent for the year of 3.41 million square kilometers (1.32 million square miles). This is the lowest seasonal minimum extent in the satellite record since 1979 and reinforces the long-term downward trend in Arctic ice extent. The sea ice extent will now begin its seasonal increase through autumn and winter.

    Please note that this is a preliminary announcement. Changing winds could still push ice floes together, reducing ice extent further. NSIDC scientists will release a full analysis of the melt season in early October, once monthly data are available for September.

    Overview of conditions

    On September 16, 2012 sea ice extent dropped to 3.41 million square kilometers (1.32 million square miles). This appears to have been the lowest extent of the year. In response to the setting sun and falling temperatures, ice extent will now climb through autumn and winter. However, a shift in wind patterns or a period of late season melt could still push the ice extent lower. The minimum extent was reached three days later than the 1979 to 2000 average minimum date of September 13.

    This year’s minimum was 760,000 square kilometers (293,000 square miles) below the previous record minimum extent in the satellite record, which occurred on September 18, 2007. This is an area about the size of the state of Texas. The September 2012 minimum was in turn 3.29 million square kilometers (1.27 million square miles) below the 1979 to 2000 average minimum, representing an area nearly twice the size of the state of Alaska. This year’s minimum is 18% below 2007 and 49% below the 1979 to 2000 average.

    Overall there was a loss of 11.83 million square kilometers (4.57 million square miles) of ice since the maximum extent occurred on March 20, 2012, which is the largest summer ice extent loss in the satellite record, more than one million square kilometers greater than in any previous year.

    Conditions in context

    The six lowest seasonal minimum ice extents in the satellite record have all occurred in the last six years (2007 to 2012). In contrast to 2007, when climatic conditions (winds, clouds, air temperatures) favored summer ice loss, this year’s conditions were not as extreme. Summer temperatures across the Arctic were warmer than average, but cooler than in 2007. The most notable event was a very strong storm centered over the central Arctic Ocean in early August. It is likely that the primary reason for the large loss of ice this summer is that the ice cover has continued to thin and become more dominated by seasonal ice. This thinner ice was more prone to be broken up and melted by weather events, such as the strong low pressure system just mentioned. The storm sped up the loss of the thin ice that appears to have been already on the verge of melting completely.

    Varying distribution of ice in 2012 vs. 2007

    The spatial pattern of ice extent at this year’s seasonal minimum is different than that observed for 2007. This year the ice is more extensive in some parts of the central Arctic Ocean. However, the ice is less extensive this year compared to 2007 in the Beaufort Sea, the western Laptev Sea, the East Greenland Sea, and parts of the Canadian Archipelago. As mentioned in our previous post, the Northern Sea Route opened around mid August this year, compared to 2007 when a tongue of ice extended to the coast, blocking the route throughout the summer.



    Figure 3. The image above shows the different distribution of ice extent at the time of the September 2012 minimum, compared to the September 2007 minimum. Dark gray indicates where ice extent was present only in 2007; white indicates where ice extent was present only in 2012; and light gray shows where ice extent was present in both 2007 and 2012.

    Credit: National Snow and Ice Data Center
    High resolution image
    http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/
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    Default Re: The Arctic is melting, the Antarctic is freezing. What does this mean?

    One topic not quite stressed here is the tons of methane under the artic ice. Suspicious0bserver at '2 minute news' today (21 Sept 2012) says if you google 'methane' and 'extinction' together, it'll keep you busy for days. And a warm winter forecast...

    This first 30+ seconds takes a glimpse at the current thread:


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MBgI...1&feature=plcp

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    Default Re: The Arctic is melting, the Antarctic is freezing. What does this mean?

    Gotta love methane clathrates at the bottom of the ocean, warming, being released. A feedback loop indeed. Anybody post up info yet about the methane plumes up by Siberia?

    Fun stuff.

    How about the fact that the Gulf of Mexico disconnected from the Gulf Stream when Macondo exploded? Won't find too many articles talking about that but I was watching closely. No mention in the msm of course, but there were the odd scientific articles speaking about it without any reference to the oil. It occurred for the first time during that horrific event. There is science on how oil causes currents to slow or, as is apparently the case now, stop.

    The implications of that should be clear.

    I wonder does that count as a source of Anthropogenic Global Warming? Especially since the wildest weather has occurred after this event? The slowing of the Gulf Stream and the subsequent effect upon Europe and the Northern Hemisphere in general?

    With that said, this science initated by CERN regarding the sun's effect adds to the overall picture. It is not a smoking gun, nor does the science fully support a totally sun-initiated warming spate. But it is another factor in the equation.

    EDIT: I'm adding this video, the 1st in a series of 6, that speaks to what happens as the world warms by degrees. There may be some mention of Anthropogenic warming, but, regardless of whether that is so or not, as the world warms, these are some potentialities that world-wide civilization will face. I recommend watching all 6 of the vids, they're really short, just a couple or few minutes in length.

    Last edited by Rahkyt; 21st September 2012 at 21:26.

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    Default Re: The Arctic is melting, the Antarctic is freezing. What does this mean?

    xxxxx xxxxx
    Last edited by sleepy; 6th October 2013 at 11:45.

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    Default Re: The Arctic is melting, the Antarctic is freezing. What does this mean?

    Another good resource site for data:

    http://www.iup.uni-bremen.de:8084/ssmis/index.html



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    Default Re: The Arctic is melting, the Antarctic is freezing. What does this mean?

    If the planet was a cold winter bed with one hot water bottle lovingly placed in it an hour before I got in it, and I found that one side of the bed was very cold and the other side of the bed was quite hot, I'd assume it was because my mum had not put the hot water bottle in the middle of the bed.

    Perhaps the heat distribution inside the planet has shifted north. Why?... dunno...but it seems like the most likely scenario.

    If I had to guess, I'd say it's a cosmic/solar cause. Certainly not a human cause though.
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    Default Re: The Arctic is melting, the Antarctic is freezing. What does this mean?

    What's going on ?

    Balance

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    Default Re: The Arctic is melting, the Antarctic is freezing. What does this mean?

    I guess this means you're not such a good salesperson if you can sell a refrigerator to an Eskimo now. (PC alert)

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    Default Re: The Arctic is melting, the Antarctic is freezing. What does this mean?

    Quote Posted by Rahkyt (here)
    Gotta love methane clathrates at the bottom of the ocean, warming, being released. A feedback loop indeed. Anybody post up info yet about the methane plumes up by Siberia?

    Fun stuff.

    How about the fact that the Gulf of Mexico disconnected from the Gulf Stream when Macondo exploded? Won't find too many articles talking about that but I was watching closely. No mention in the msm of course, but there were the odd scientific articles speaking about it without any reference to the oil. It occurred for the first time during that horrific event. There is science on how oil causes currents to slow or, as is apparently the case now, stop.

    The implications of that should be clear.

    I wonder does that count as a source of Anthropogenic Global Warming? Especially since the wildest weather has occurred after this event? The slowing of the Gulf Stream and the subsequent effect upon Europe and the Northern Hemisphere in general?

    With that said, this science initated by CERN regarding the sun's effect adds to the overall picture. It is not a smoking gun, nor does the science fully support a totally sun-initiated warming spate. But it is another factor in the equation.
    The Gulf stream is huge and undeniable, but they haven't figured out how a tax will fix that yet. No question, what happened in the Gulf is nothing short of demonic. How about Demonogenic warming?

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    Default Re: The Arctic is melting, the Antarctic is freezing. What does this mean?

    Quote Posted by modwiz (here)
    I guess this means you're not such a good salesperson if you can sell a refrigerator to an Eskimo now. (PC alert)
    was that caveat out of fear or courtesy (which is an interesting subject in itself)?
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    Default Re: The Arctic is melting, the Antarctic is freezing. What does this mean?

    ------

    Wow. Thanks -- this is Avalon research at its very best. I'm impressed.

    (Carry on! )

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    Default Re: The Arctic is melting, the Antarctic is freezing. What does this mean?

    I would submit, more water in the ocean will give rise to seaquakes, more water more weight, hence the ocean floor will crack and the water level will go down. Empty caverns once filled with oil and such, now will fill with seawater and give rise to movement under the ocean floor causing pressure and displaced magma from the earth's core could lead to increased volcanoes . Secondly the pole shift, the top of the earth moving closer to the sun , the bottom moving farther away. Could be.
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    Default Re: The Arctic is melting, the Antarctic is freezing. What does this mean?

    Quote Posted by MorningSong (here)
    This article is a must read for anyone truely wanting to understand the topic in the OP, IMO:

    http://nsidc.org/cryosphere/sotc/sea_ice.html



    this says it all, what was up is down what was down is up, our whole earth turned upside down on every front.
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    Default Re: The Arctic is melting, the Antarctic is freezing. What does this mean?

    Quote Posted by TargeT (here)
    Quote Posted by modwiz (here)
    I guess this means you're not such a good salesperson if you can sell a refrigerator to an Eskimo now. (PC alert)
    was that caveat out of fear or courtesy (which is an interesting subject in itself)?
    Courtesy.
    Last edited by modwiz; 22nd September 2012 at 04:51.

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    Default Re: The Arctic is melting, the Antarctic is freezing. What does this mean?

    From Robert Felix's site:http://iceagenow.info/2011/09/sea-level-continues-inexorable-decline/



    Sea Level Continues Inexorable Decline

    By Robert On September 16, 2011 · 23 Comments

    The two-year-long decline is continuing at a rate of 5mm per year

    “The latest sea level numbers are out,” says Steven Goddard on Real-Science.com. “Envisat* shows that the two year long decline is continuing, at a rate of 5mm per year.”

    “No doubt Al Gore will pass this good news on to all his viewers,” laughs Goddard


    What Al probably won’t tell them, is that this decline is a continuation of the sea-level decline that began in 2010. (See http://iceagenow.info/2011/08/sea-levels-dropped-2010/ )


    Where is the water going?

    It’s being locked up on land as snow and ice. Look at the record snowfall throughout the Western United States this past winter. That’s how ice ages begin. If that sort of snowfall persists, sea levels will continue falling and won’t begin rising again until the end of the next ice age.
    * What is Envisat?



    Envisat (Photo Credit - ESA)

    According to the European Space Agency (ESA) website, Envisat is the largest Earth Observation spacecraft ever built. Launched in 2002, it carries ten sophisticated optical and radar instruments to provide continuous observation and monitoring of the Earth’s land, atmosphere, oceans and ice caps. Envisat data collectively provide a wealth of information on the workings of the Earth system, including insights into factors contributing to climate change.
    See:
    http://www.real-science.com/uncatego...storic-decline

    Envisat numbers here:
    ftp://ftp.aviso.oceanobs.com/pub/oceano/AVISO/indicators/msl/MSL_Serie_EN_Global_IB_RWT_NoGIA_Adjust.txt

    See also, Sea levels dropped in 2010:
    http://iceagenow.info/2011/08/sea-levels-dropped-2010/
    Last edited by Hervé; 22nd September 2012 at 04:13.
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    Default Re: The Arctic is melting, the Antarctic is freezing. What does this mean?

    When one looks at a measuring tape, 5 millimeters (0.2") don't look to be that much and do not reflect the ENORMOUS VOLUME* of water this represents at the scale of the earth.

    Especially when considering that oceans cover 75 % of this planet surface leaving about 15% for land.

    Then consider that the only place all that missing water from earth's oceans, year after year, can disappear as snow and ice are these 15% of land... wouldn't take long for new ice sheets to form and develop.

    Which is happening right under our nose in the Antarctic. It's still winter over there!


    Edit:

    * That's roughly 2000 Km^3 which don't make it back to the oceans every year.
    Last edited by Hervé; 22nd September 2012 at 05:41.
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    Default Re: The Arctic is melting, the Antarctic is freezing. What does this mean?

    The word Eskimo is a reminder of our past relationship to indigenous people, one of exploitation. They are the Inuit. But then many Americans still call the native people that were invaded and imprisoned, Indians. India is in Asia.


    The arctic ice is melting very fast. Some people talk about a tipping point. This is well worth paying attention to.
    Last edited by Midnight; 22nd September 2012 at 05:52.

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    Default Re: The Arctic is melting, the Antarctic is freezing. What does this mean?

    For questions regarding world climate I always refer to my friend Piers Corbyn. His forecasting technique based on solar/lunar cycles are the most accurate I’ve come across. His track record speaks for itself. He uncovers a 60 year solar/lunar cycle , 30 years of relative warmth and 30 years of relative cold. We have just entered the cold stage. He’s a one man army, fighting against the “CO2 causing global warming” dogma. Piers is predicting that we are now entering a little ice age.

    Piers suggests that the earth has in fact been cooling since 2007. Ice in the arctic has not been diminishing as of late but increasing. It is the strong low pressure cells that have been breaking up mass ice sheets and moving them around by strong winds and making it appear like ice disappearing/melting. “Before and after” satellite data in certain parts make it appear that ice is disappearing but in fact it is only shifting to other places.

    See his website for much more information

    http://www.weatheraction.com


    ... oh, and by the way... I've never seen him have a "good hair day" heheheh
    a climate genius nevertheless!



    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47ucp...ature=youtu.be

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