The mentalists - Can they do the 'undoable' ?

[Limor Wolf]

Lately they seem to come more and more to the front of the stage - the mentalists.

From Wikipedia:

" Mentalism is a performing art in which its practitioners, known as mentalists, appear to demonstrate highly developed mental or intuitive abilities. Performances may appear to include telepathy, clairvoyance, divination, precognition, psychokinesis, mediumship, mind control, memory feats and rapid mathematics. Hypnosis may also be used as a stage tool. Mentalists are sometimes referred to as psychic entertainers."

What they do seems unexplainable in our 3D world, But it might be very explainable outside of it. they present themselves as magicians - a very convenient definition to hide behind, no questions need to be asked.

There are a couple of known mentalists in my country (Israel), and I am sure in your countries as well. Here is a short video that will demonstrate those 'tricks of illusion', OR ARE THEY ?


Steve Frayne

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=2DbaeaFCAbU

Most of these performers wich demonstrate quite unique abilities, are popping now like mushrooms after the rain probably because they are allowed to do that, maybe even directed to do so..

Here is another example -

Lior suchard

" The truth we think we know is not entierly true, The world which we percieve doesn't reveal what's really out there.. the thoughts that we are thinking are not always our own, since the beginning of time and to this day people have been searching for higher levels of consciousness and being..."

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=QB5Q9UofnrM

My thoughts on this subject go so far and beyond that I would really like to hear you, Avalon members, what are your feelings about this? what is the origin of power of these people? illusion or reality? and the most important one: If they can, does that mean that so can we?


Please take a look at this as well:

https://youtube.com/watch?v=hQRyvpvqshM


~^&*~^&*

Limor

[deridan]

sometimes the thoughts thought are not your own
perhaps a mentalist predicts , cause in some stages before he speaks he projects his process on u, on your 3rd i / eye level
then senses your total charkra package to see how the concept was translated u u then transliterrates thru word

so sometimes we are in a field,
basic awareness would promote clashing of consciousness....once i bgipreacher i met choose to go the path of calling me piglowunredemablebloodtoonesownchronology so as to be far from the effects of temperance

{sometimes i leave these funny endings cause taleast the first part of what i said seems lightening[insomewyas]}

[Limor Wolf]

Originally posted by deridan: " perhaps a mentalist predicts , cause in some stages before he speaks he projects his process on u:

Yes, It is a possibility thet they transmit their thoughts to other's minds and then 'read' them (if I understand you correct), but that might be true only in some cases, it can not be the case for example when the mentalist is copying the other person's personal signature to his own credit card.. and there are other things that simply can not be explained unless we hold the knowledge that our minds can 'redesign' the matter, shapeshifting etc.


part 1-

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=gX02NlYHWq4

Parts 2,3 &4 -

https://youtube.com/watch?v=ka4GF...feature=relmfu

https://youtube.com/watch?v=zIiKF...hannel&list=UL

https://youtube.com/watch?v=qty8z...hannel&list=UL

[Carmody]

It is not that they can do the undoable, it is that the people walking about are ignorant of the reality in front of them, as to what is the full dynamics of reality. They project ignorance at each other and thus hold it up as a frameworks.

Science is also advancing in the realm of this 'thing' regarding the physics of the proposed Higgs boson, which adds an entire extra relational dimension to physics, and takes mundane matter out of time and space in a way that is now going to be publicly engineering and understood, in the most fundamental and mundane of ways.

CERN says that the Higgs Boson is, as tested, a 99.9%+ certainty and this brings an entire set of dimensional progressions to the table which involves time, gravity and mundane space -as an integration- to the table as a simple and engineerable form. That the Higgs Boson weighs, mass wise, with respect to it's intrusion into our 3d reality...about 130 times that of a hydrogen atom.

Thus, science is falling into perfect step with this emergent reality, regarding every day life.

[spiritguide]

Deridan, you are very clever. Like your cryptics.



The unspoken is sometimes louder than the spoken....

[Mike]

my question is this:

where do they learn the magic/mentalism? and from whom?

it's one of the only things on earth you can't really google. sure, you can learn a trick or two, but the more involved stuff, involving 'mentalism' is nowhere to be found. yes, there are some courses you can pay for and so on, but if it were that easy everyone would be doing it.

secrets like these always come back to one person, or a small group of people. who are they? and how do they decide who to give the magic to. there are really only a small handful of truly impressive magicians/mentalists that i know of; and if there are any more they can't be too terribly talented because i certainly would have heard of them by now.

i guess i'm sorta hypothesizing that there's some sort of new world order-ish fraternity of magicians who decide who is going to be the next big star (Blaine, Angel etc...) similar to how a Bilderburg group decides upon a president. ok, i am having a llttle fun with this here, but i am truly curious as to how someone like David Blaine got his training. the real impressive trickery cannot be too readily available, because like i said -- every hack with a plastic wand would be doing the sh#t.

anyway, it's a cool thread Limor. and long overdue, really.

[ulli]

Posted by Chinaski (here)
my question is this:

where do they learn the magic/mentalism? and from whom?

it's one of the only things on earth you can't really google. sure, you can learn a trick or two, but the more involved stuff, involving 'mentalism' is nowhere to be found. yes, there are some courses you can pay for and so on, but if it were that easy everyone would be doing it.

secrets like these always come back to one person, or a small group of people. who are they? and how do they decide who to give the magic to. there are really only a small handful of truly impressive magicians/mentalists that i know of; and if there are any more they can't be too terribly talented because i certainly would have heard of them by now.

i guess i'm sorta hypothesizing that there's some sort of new world order-ish fraternity of magicians who decide who is going to be the next big star (Blaine, Angel etc...) similar to how a Bilderburg group decides upon a president. ok, i am having a llttle fun with this here, but i am truly curious as to how someone like David Blaine got his training. the real impressive trickery cannot be too readily available, because like i said -- every hack with a plastic wand would be doing the sh#t.

anyway, it's a cool thread Limor. and long overdue, really.

This is what I was told many years ago...
In order to get work as a magician one has to be a member of an international organization called the Great Magic Circle, and in order to get membership one has to present a trick of one's own invention, in front of a panel of judges.

[Ilie Pandia]

In most cases mentalists use what is known as: "Cold Reading"

And, on TV shows, the unsuspecting audience is actually made up of actors, or mostly actors .

If that man could pass through glass he would not use the coat to hide the trap beneath the glass window and he would insert that phone into the bottle with a slow motion, not a quick snap meant to blur your vision.

That being said, mentalists are very aware people, they can basically see the world in a different way than we do, in the sense that they are very careful to details, to body language, to how your dress and what your attitude is. You may not open your mouth, but you are screaming your private thoughts to a trained eye and mind. Sherlock Holmes is probably the first mentalist that I've learned about, although surely others before him have had very good observation skills.

And of course, I am sure there are those that understand a great deal more about how our reality really works, and can do things that appear to be "un-real" to the rest of us.

If you understand how deeply conditioned the human mind is, and then you do something that plays on that weakness you can appear to be magical.

Probably closely related subjects are NLP and hypnosis or anything that touches on how do we perceive the world "around us" (or is it with in us ?)

PS: What I'd really really like to witness is two mentalists attempting to read one another ... but they will most likely know not to get in close proximity. Choosing your "mark" is another essential skill to master

[Limor Wolf]

Originally posted by Ilie Pandia: "If that man could pass through glass he would not use the coat to hide the trap beneath the glass window and he would insert that phone into the bottle with a slow motion, not a quick snap meant to blur your vision. "

Quite the opposite There must remain some element of concealment, otherwise it will be the most serious 'disclosure' the world ever known, (sounds familiar, UFO's anyone?) this way, it always remains on the thin line between illusion and a reality that can not be explained.

"You may not open your mouth, but you are screaming your private thoughts to a trained eye and mind"

How trained can one be to know someone's own personal signature, and be able to percieve the pin number and the credit card of a random person on the street. you certainly can't do that by only looking at them. Intuativness is a strong feature here but there seems to be much more to it.

It shouldn't be so surprising since we already know about people like Ingo Swan, Courteny Brown that were used for military, governmental and business purposes, and that RV and the CIA Mkultra are parts of our life, There are many many more examples, stories, testimonies about the true ability of the mind, and the possibility of the mind to control the matter.

Uri Geller has worked for the CIA, Lior suchard which appears on the second video is his Protégé

There is much more under the surface than meets the eye.

Thanks Ilie for presenting the voice of logic, I hope you don't mind me picking on the other side of the fence there is so much going on these days, That is so out of what we are meant to believe, we are an indoctrinated and mind controled society (though, some of us got a glimpse to other possibilities), we are genetically intervened, I believe it is important to stay open and examine things from a closer look.

[Ilie Pandia]

Hi Limor,

With the exception of the "phone in the bottle" for which I would require a special bottle, I can re-create the other illusions myself

That guy from "stolen identity" is an actor . Dynamo did not guess anything.

Your points about non disclosure are also valid, but I don't think such a person would be a "show off" person working in the entertainment industry. S/he may teach his magic in other ways.

I was and still am very passionate about magic. I do not practice it much, but I like to learn how they do it. The skill involved is quite amazing. The hardest part for me is keeping a straight face when people fall for it.

To summarize, we have only Dynamo's word and the actor's word that they did not meet before. This is a classic line since forever in magic shows, when the magician picks someone "random" from the audience to "help". So you've been tricked even before the so called "illusion" happens

A while back there was even a video about "revealing street magic tricks" that pretty much explains it all. (Don't watch that if you still want to be amazed by such performances).

That being said, I don't want to diminish those magicians in any way! I still love them and consider them awesome people. They show us how our minds work against us, how "seeing is NOT believing", how we filter out reality based on our preconceptions and that maybe... just maybe... reality is not what we think it is.

True magicians (in my opinion) are those that help catalyze an inner transformation in their "mark". And to some degree a street performer can do that. You are likely to questions your inner processes more deeply after someone on the street has just read your mind

[Tarka the Duck]

Hello Limor, and what a great idea for a thread!

If you are interested in mentalism, I have only two words to say to you. Derren Brown. He is the master…http://derrenbrown.co.uk/ His shows are all available on youtube, but I have a feeling that many of them are only viewable in the UK

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derren_Brown
"Derren Brown achieves his results using a combination of "magic, suggestion, psychology, misdirection and showmanship". Using his knowledge and skill, he appears to be able to predict and influence people's thoughts with subtle suggestion, manipulate the decision-making process and read the subtle physical and psychological signs or body language that indicate what a person is thinking. Brown claims to use a variety of methods to achieve his illusions including traditional magic/conjuring techniques, memory techniques, hypnosis, body language reading, cognitive psychology, cold reading and psychological, subliminal (specifically the use of PWA – "perception without awareness") and ideomotor suggestion."


Derren is well known for openly disclosing tips and techniques he uses in his acts, and is categorical that he is not psychic: there is an interesting interview with him in Richard Dawkin's documentary, The Enemies of Reason, where he demonstrates the psychological techniques used by purported psychics and spiritual mediums to manipulate their audiences .

Following a performance, he will often have the film replayed, and talk through his words and actions, which is truly fascinating. He has made several audio and video presentations about his work for aspiring magicians and illusionists, but these are only accessible if you are a professional magican/mentalist.
He's also written four books about his work: Absolute Magic, Pure Effect (currently out of print), Tricks of the Mind, and Confessions of a Conjuror. The first two books are intended solely for practitioners of magic and mentalism, whilst his books Tricks of the Mind and Confessions of a Conjuror are aimed at the general public.

Illie, I would agree with what you wrote - except, in the case of Derren, for the claim that audiences comprise of actors. That simply isn't true.

PS He's also an amazing portrait painter…

[Ilie Pandia]

Posted by Tarka the Duck (here)

Illie, I would agree with what you wrote - except, in the case of Derren, for the claim that audiences comprise of actors. That simply isn't true.

Yes, I know.

However passing through glass, or using a special bottle that you've planted before the filming does require actors .

And thanks for reminding us of Derren. Indeed he is the master mentalist. And he even has some clips where he shows that his tricks do not always work.

I am pretty sure I'd be an easy mark for a mentalist . Once I was able to pass by my father, on the street, while he was calling me by name... that's how much absorbed I was in a different reality! LOL

But, I do not agree with Derren that we do not have any kind psychic ability, and that everyone that claims to be psychic is a crook. Mentalists deal with the mind and it's weakness to conditioning and suggestions. They do not consider consciousness and the power it may have in shaping our "reality". In this sense, a mentalist is just as trapped and conditioned as the rest of us to believe in a certain limitation of the human potential.

Update: Derren did not claim we don't have any kind psychic ability, it was just my faulty memory at play.

[Anastasia]

Hello All:

I attended a school by the name of Barbara Brennan School of Healing...It was a four year course. I have come to think of it as the 'marines' of healing schools...

It is very disciplined and not everyone passes. In fact, I was left back and had to repeat the third year!

Anyway, one of the courses taught was titled Long Distance Healing. It taught how to make contact with a client and perform a healing, no matter the location.

In 2004, my teacher performed a long distance healing on me and was able to 'clear' growths from my body. It was a wonderful experience.

I was so very grateful.

Here's the thing, one of the cautions given at the school in reference to any of this work was to be sure to have as much as possible of the following: good intention, clarity, purity, honour, grace, and do no harm...otherwise the student would find that 'darkness' of intention would be insidiously seductive. It is stated that darknes devoures itself (the energy). It is a limited, erroneous force that cannot sustain itself.

Light, on the other hand is infinite!

So, here's my conundrum: I wonder how all of this 'other than light' energy continues...or does it?

Maybe that is why we are where we are, because of the unsustainability of an energy that has no rootedness.

I wonder!

Sincerely,

Anastasia

[Tarka the Duck]

Hello Illie

But, I do not agree with Derren that we do not have any kind psychic ability

From what I have read of his writings, I don't think Derren Brown has ever said that psychic ability doesn't exist.
But what he has said is that his interest lies in the way people perceive, rather than any claim to psychic ability.
For me, his attitude is open-minded:

"If you decide its fake, you lose sight of how effective it is; if you decide its real, theres the danger of becoming a mindless believer.

The fact that alleged psychic phenomena can be duplicated by a competent mentalist is merely suggestive of the idea that the psychic power does not exist, not proof. We understand processes such as suggestion, placebo and co-incidence. A refusal to bring that knowledge into play is not open-mindedness,

I've worked closely enough with the "New Age" and psychic scene to have very clear views that I feel are well informed, to be able to defend my scepticism and not feel Im spouting some materialist rant. You can be as much a true believer in scepticism as you can in anything else.

I love the whole interaction of genuine psychological techniques and fraudulent psychic ones. Im not interested in debunking psychic claims, so much as replicating some of these techniques and providing alternative explanations. Debunking is essentially negative, and not as interesting."

[Limor Wolf]

I am sorry for my inability to verbalize myself better, I, personally am not interested in magic, and in the small tricks of the mind and this is not the purpose of this thread.

Thanks Tarka, Derren Brown strikes me as one of those virtuoso magicians, the same as Blain and others. they are showing some remarkable tricks that they probably worked on for a long time. But than, there are the "others" , if you are a 'sensitive' yourself, you can feel their different frquency, ( a proclamation which is problematic, I know) . I wouldn't like to get into the argument of proof on how a person can go through a sealed glass or be in another remote location within 1 second, since there are indeed many tricks that involve actors, collaborators, camera angles and so forth. My cousin was a magician, I am familiar with all those mentioned above by Ilie.

I feel that another level of a more sharpened distinction is needed and maybe a deeper level of research, has anyone read the biography by Bryce Taylor, a mind controlled slave by the government? their hands are deep in the show business. There are so many of the favorit and known artists today that are subservient to them and they definitely use them to mind control the public via their songs, their performances etc. also to prepare the public to what they think it needs to know. There is a complex system and some of the mentalists (not all of them are preformesrs, by the way, some are healers, rv's etc) belong to that hand that rocks the cradle. I will try and bring more examples to what I mean later on.

[Ilie Pandia]

Hm, if I understand you properly this time, yes a mentalist would be less impressed or controlled by the symbolism and manipulation from the media. They are more likely to spot repetitive patterns or subtle attack on our mind at sub-conscious levels. But if that is so, I did not hear anyone speak about it.

[ulli]

Posted by Anastasia (here)
Hello All:

I attended a school by the name of Barbara Brennan School of Healing...It was a four year course. I have come to think of it as the 'marines' of healing schools...

It is very disciplined and not everyone passes. In fact, I was left back and had to repeat the third year!

Anyway, one of the courses taught was titled Long Distance Healing. It taught how to make contact with a client and perform a healing, no matter the location.

In 2004, my teacher performed a long distance healing on me and was able to 'clear' growths from my body. It was a wonderful experience.

I was so very grateful.

Here's the thing, one of the cautions given at the school in reference to any of this work was to be sure to have as much as possible of the following: good intention, clarity, purity, honour, grace, and do no harm...otherwise the student would find that 'darkness' of intention would be insidiously seductive. It is stated that darknes devoures itself (the energy). It is a limited, erroneous force that cannot sustain itself.

Light, on the other hand is infinite!

So, here's my conundrum: I wonder how all of this 'other than light' energy continues...or does it?

Maybe that is why we are where we are, because of the unsustainability of an energy that has no rootedness.

I wonder!

Sincerely,

Anastasia

You touch on something really important here. And I ave asked myself the same question.
Several long distance healers who are members of Avalon have gathered on the "Here and Now...Whats happening?" thread, and periodically someone asks the group for a distant healing. Over the last year there have been some incredible results, according to people's reports. In my case the most astonishing incident happened a few months ago when my husband had an arrhythmia attack which had been going on for nearly 24 hours and when he finally decided to go to the hospital I thought it was time to try and ask the forum group for a healing. There were several people reading the thread at that moment. And lo and behold, within less than five minutes of writing my post in which I asked for healing energy for my husband he was cured, 100%.
He was getting ready to ave me take hm to the clinic, but still had the stethoscope in his ears...he is a doctor, so he was using it to monitor his heartbeat....when suddenly he blurted out that his heartbeat had returned to normal from one beat to the next.
All I could think was why had I not asked the forum group for help sooner?
Since the other successes can only be considered as second hand stories I had been a bit skeptical, but this event was the most amazing to us. It is very comforting to know that distant healing is so effective, and that friends are out there who have each others well-being a heart.
Here is my response to your question about what happens to the energy:
The fact things don't stay at optimal levels is just part of life...
which continues to move at all times towards decomposition.
What sustains and maintains life and health is the intent and thought patterns of a person's consciousness.
The larger the group practicing the focused intent the greater the result.
While an individual has lost their will to live it does not take long and their health start to suffer, but the moment pain alerts them that a healthy state is preferable to being sick there is healing going, due to their wish to be well.
We are just starting with the group work in ths field as a society.
I can only imagine how effective healing will be when practiced all over the world via the Internet.
Love to all.

[Fred Steeves]

Well, I have to pretty much go along with Ilie on this one. I do think that there are of course people walking this planet that can do these things, and much more, but not in this instance. I went to a party around a year ago, where a group of stage actors were in attendance. A very fun and interesting group let me tell you. I can easily see how they could go somewhere in public, pretend they are all total strangers, and pull off a stunt that would amaze people. I think likely there were many, if not all actors in the bottle and the walking through glass scene.

Cold reading is an art, and can very closely mimic being psychic. Like Ilie, I think I would also be an easy mark. I tend to be a bit air headed at times, and have a tough time hiding my facial and body language. Someone could probably read me like a book, if they really knew what they were doing. That's precisely why if I ever did go for a psychic reading, including Carol Clarke, I would divulge my first name, and not much more. No birth date, very little small talk, no nothin.

Criss Angel did a stunt in our area a few years ago. They were imploding a hotel,(one I used to work at) and he was going to be shackled, locked inside, and still make it to the roof to grab hold of a line dangling from a helicopter for the big escape, before time ran out. Well, of course time ran out, the rescue helicopter had to leave, and the building blew with him inside. Then miraculously a few minutes later, with the crowd still in shock, a dust covered Criss magically appeared out of the smoky rubble.

Check out what a local news channel caught.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=tsfz7zCfyXg

Now concerning Uri Geller. He was exposed back in 1973 by Johnny Carson, who was an amateur magician, live on the Tonight Show. I hate to invoke James Randi, but his video is the only place I can find the Carson clip. He does do a pretty good job setting up what led to the appearance, but if you just want to see the Carson scene, go to the 5:47 point. It's painful to watch if you're a Geller fan.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=xIrYBcz6WFU

[Limor Wolf]

Out of my own curiosity, How many of you here that gave an above response think or feel that you have any type of psychic ability?

[RunningDeer]

It’s more about belief than ‘special powers’. We all have The Power to change, but belief trips up a lot of folks.

Over my bed, I had three Christmas balls that looked like bubbles hanging from my ceiling at different lengths. It gave the illusion that they were floating.

A friend randomly picked a ball for me to move. He upped the challenge to swing left/right, back/forth, or circle. Then for the finale move all three. Even as I type, I can’t believe it happened over and over. I sit here now and say, "How cool!" Back then it was just ordinary.

It wasn’t all at once “Oh, my God!”

While alone, I’d notice one move and the other two didn’t. I rationalized it was a breeze, even though no windows were opened. I intellectualized that it was the air currents. 

I didn’t believe it. But once I figured out the fear of failure/nothing to loose part, I stared at another goat...I mean ball. And IT moved.

UPDATE: I forgot to add that my friend applied the same techniques above. He did it too, but did not believe himself. He said I did it. Even when I turned away and he didn't tell me which one he picked. He still didn't believe.

For those interested in the technique:

I just visualize. See them moving. In the beginning, feel or call up or recognize a sensation in either your the heart, stomach or belly button region.

How I’d describe it’s like when you're up really high on the a swing, and just as you’re about to come back down, there’s that tickle-giggle sensation. After awhile, I streamlined it. I just saw them moving in my mind’s eye.

Updated: 10/11/13

Another example:

I use to demonstrate to my students that you can zap clouds. I showed them that you just visualize them gone. In the case where there’s a lot of cloud cover, just zap a hole in them. They not only accomplished it, but went home to teach their parents.

Disclaimer: I don't walk on water because of a false belief, but I have walked on fire with 100+ others. I also want to state that I make no claims of walking through walls, but I have stepped through the floor unintentionally. See this post.