This is one reason I don't vote for who will be President.....

[truth4me]

George tells us plenty here......

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=cCD6dk2OtK8

"the boys from brazil"

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=H58H_kAZZsY

[DeBron]

Well that is not reason enough not to vote. I spend most of my day informing people that who is president is not the only thing that is on the ballot. What people fail to realize is that the President runs the Federal Government of the USA. He does not control the state you live in, nor the county, nor the city. We are voting for much more and those races are just as important if not more so.
I find it disturbing that people give up on voting because things don't go the way they think it should. This process is corrupted and broken which means you and I must do more than JUST vote. We complain about lobbyists. Most people don't know what a lobbyist is. It is a person who is paid to express their company's concerns.

You have concerns don't you? Then express them. Things change when people make their wants known. It is a hard disappointing route to take but it works for those who persevere. If we give up and wash our hands of it(read: not participate) then we are allowing those in power to continue to do whatever they feel like doing.

Pressure applied creates diamonds. With no pressure our government will become more sludge than anything. Lets make diamonds. Call them. Write them. Email them. Visit their offices. The harder we work, the more benefit we will see. Stop complaining in your chair. Get up get out and change it all.


Ok I had to get that off my chest. um.......what am I supposed to say??? Oh yea IMHO (LOL)

[Carmody]

that is the subtle part. Send a message that votes can be dangerous if used, as opposed to not used.

Make it very hard to fake a Romney victory, as the situation is plain and simple. a Romney victory is a 'America goes directly to active full war' victory. it's the CIA/Nazi side of things directly in the white house, as opposed to someone who is forced to work with compromises and is compromised.

That is a big difference.

And when that is done, then get back to hammering the garbage that is occupying that office.

Switching to the "direct action/open action fascists" is a really bad idea..and not voting is a sure fire way to get there. For republicans always vote, it is the neutrals and the liberal types that always decide to protest --by not voting.

The numbers have to be high enough that it is difficult to lie about the vote turnout and the direction. it's like piling up 1000 pounds of sand, hoping that 1 pound of it will be recognized. But in this case, the alternative is worse.

Think about it. don't destroy the only stick that is holding things back, that is slowing things down...by trying to commit to the appearance of doing the right thing.


Fully blown open fascists in the presidential offices is a really bad thing. Seriously. Think about it. It's the difference between remote control by agreement and connection....vs direct full control, hands in and on the controls. It's possible to visualize it as something like the difference between a spymaster running things in the backdrop through subtlety, channels, agreement and cohersion... or a spymaster's best servant directly in the offices. A HUGE difference in effectiveness and capacity for forwarding agendas.

[Mark]

Very well said, DeBron and Carmody. I agree 100%.

And when that is done, then get back to hammering the garbage that is occupying that office.

The point being that we will have more time and more opportunity to do so rather than heading directly and irrevocably into warfare and economic turmoil, which a Romney victory would ensure.

What is coming can be postponed, but it is still coming. Any time that we have to shift things for the greatest number of people possible before that time gets here is a grace period that we should take advantage of.

[we-R-one]

Posted by DeBron (here)
Well that is not reason enough not to vote. I spend most of my day informing people that who is president is not the only thing that is on the ballot. What people fail to realize is that the President runs the Federal Government of the USA. He does not control the state you live in, nor the county, nor the city. We are voting for much more and those races are just as important if not more so.
I find it disturbing that people give up on voting because things don't go the way they think it should. This process is corrupted and broken which means you and I must do more than JUST vote. We complain about lobbyists. Most people don't know what a lobbyist is. It is a person who is paid to express their company's concerns.

You have concerns don't you? Then express them. Things change when people make their wants known. It is a hard disappointing route to take but it works for those who persevere. If we give up and wash our hands of it(read: not participate) then we are allowing those in power to continue to do whatever they feel like doing.

Pressure applied creates diamonds. With no pressure our government will become more sludge than anything. Lets make diamonds. Call them. Write them. Email them. Visit their offices. The harder we work, the more benefit we will see. Stop complaining in your chair. Get up get out and change it all.


Ok I had to get that off my chest. um.......what am I supposed to say??? Oh yea IMHO (LOL)

Here's a different spin for you....when you vote you are giving them permission to do what they do, because you are electing to acquiesce to their system. They "need" your approval, in order to continue with their rampage. When you vote, you are giving them the "jurisdiction" to continue, and that is what people don't understand. All these systems such as SS#'s, birth certificates, drivers licenses, etc. are mechanisms we have "voluntarily" accepted that pull us under the jurisdiction of the corporation of THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, legally. We have now legally given away our rights by accepting these so called processes as it puts us under contract with the corporation. This is how a de facto government is formed.

Black Law's Dictionary 5th edition:

GOVERNMENT DE FACTO-(this is how we've been set up): A government of fact. A government actually exercising power and control, as opposed to the true and lawful government; a government not established according to the constitution of the nation, or not lawfully entitled to recognition or supremacy, but which has nevertheless supplanted or displaced the government de jure. A government deemed unlawful, or deemed wrongful or unjust, which, nevertheless, receives presently habitual obedience from the bulk of the community.


PLEASE NOTE LAST SENTENCE....."receives presently habitual obedience from the bulk of the community." THIS IS REFERRING TO "WE THE PEOPLE". WE DON'T KNOW ANY BETTER SO WE ARE OBEDIENT.

The above is what you're voting for when you participate in these so called elections.

Do not be fooled into believing that voting is your "patriotic duty".....it's only a phrase to make you feel like your bad for not participating with their fraudulent system.

You are dealing with criminals and they don't care about the voice of the people. As long as criminals continue to run this country the lobbyist system isn't going away just because people complain...you're kidding yourself if you think that's true. You would probably appreciate the GOOOH system....are you familiar with it? It's a plan to remove all 435 members of the House and replace them with every day citizens like yourself. The beauty of the program is that no special interest money is allowed to finance any of the candidates; they are completely funded by the people. The chosen candidate, after going through the GOOOH process is required to sign an affidavit which states that he/she will not accept any special interest money and if they do, they will have 72 hours to vacate their office and then be required to pay back the people for all the funds that went to wards their campaign. It's a beautiful program and exactly what we need.....unfortunately on the flip side, until the criminals are removed it will not be allowed on a mass level. I think Tim Cox, the founder, has made some great strides on a local level, but more participation from the people is needed....and quite honestly I find most people to be lazy, and not wanting to actively participate, so until that changes on a mass scale, it will be difficult for this system to take shape. I speak from experience as I founded the GOOOH chapter for my state, so I had the opportunity to work closely with Tim and "the people" to observe how this process works.

I'm hopeful in time, that GOOOH will be the method used for all elected positions in the future should we gain control and return our country back to the Republic it once was. As a Republic we would be following common law not color of law, and all these stupid, silly statues, rules and restrictions would go away. There is no case, unless you have an injured party, period....which means....you wouldn't have the onslaught of congressional b.s. being crammed down your throat and for those in an elected position...well...they just might find their job to be rather pleasant as they won't be tied to their position such as those who hold office now. You can find out more about GOOOH, by visiting their website www.goooh.com

There's so much fraud in the election process, try you-tubing Bev Harris of Black Box Voting for more on that; your vote in the presidential election doesn't really matter. Besides...it's all ready pre-determined who's going to be president, and that choice is based on bloodlines. You can refer to the works of David Icke as he will demonstrates in some of his videos how presidents are chosen via who has the purest bloodline. The Illuminati are obsessed with bloodlines. There have been plenty of genealogy reports done on past presidents and the pattern is clear, the vast majority of presidents(I believe except for 2 of them), all belong to the same bloodline. Voting is merely an illusion to make you feel like you have a choice and that's the truth.

[Mark]

Voting is not an illusion. Why would the republicans be trying so hard to disenfranchise so many people if it was an illusion?

The practical reality - which is all that we have - is that non-participation is playing into the hands of the PTB. Not voting. All that has been mentioned above is true, but in the Now, in the context of this election and what is going on in the world to sit by and not participate claiming the high moral ground is to potentially allow the worst case scenario to manifest and for warfare and economic privation to occur sooner rather than later.

Sure, the choice is between the devil and the deep blue sea, but unless the radical change required is about to happen right now, then the system as it is is the only real choice that we have.

Not making a choice, choosing to sit out, is making a choice.

[Jake]

Presidents are not elected, they are SELECTED! David Icke.

I do not vote, and I am not shy to say it. I will take full responsibility for my 'non-vote'. The attrocities that occur around our world are being worked by a hidden hand. Including the careful control of any potential candidate for president of the U.S.

This is a picture of Prisidents Nixon and Reagan with the 'man who brought us pletonium' (Illuminati front man),,, discussing the future! (at Bohemian Grove in the Redwoods in California. Before either of them were president, of course.)


No potential vote that I have will ever be used to justify the attrocities currently being played out by the latest batch of monsters. I may still vote in my local elections, mostly for the ballot initiatives. But even those have red flags any more!!

Jake.

[Mark]

That is your choice then, Jake, and there's no need to be shy or ashamed to say it. There are many people who refuse to vote and who just sit back and complain. That, again, is a valid choice. To sit back and wait for things to get better, or to sit back and watch things continue to devolve while decrying the state of the entire system with no prescriptions for any change for the better other than to continue to observe and wait.

Wait for what? What is everybody waiting for? Armed revolution? Nibiru? NESARA? The White Hats? Gaia to decide she's had enough and shake humanity off the earth like fleas?

We have a choice between two extremes. To sit back if you have the opportunity to affect that choice is a choice of life path that many make and that results in a continuing downward spiral of intent and outcome.

While the system we have SUCKS, and nobody here disputes that, if you have the chance to affect change and you don't take it that is your choice.

And for all of those who state that it is all pre-chosen, that's true only to the extent that the PTB attempt to affect voters choices by bombarding them with ads and other social media, as well as direct enforcement through peer and the employment structures.

As the elections in 2004 and 2008 showed, the voter manipulation can be assayed, as Carmody stated, if the difference and distance between the two candidates and the vote tallies is large enough.

Action is required for real change, not sitting back and watching.

[Jake]

Posted by Rahkyt (here)
That is your choice then, Jake, and there's no need to be shy or ashamed to say it. There are many people who refuse to vote and who just sit back and complain. That, again, is a valid choice. To sit back and wait for things to get better, or to sit back and watch things continue to devolve while decrying the state of the entire system with no prescriptions for any change for the better other than to continue to observe and wait.

Wait for what? What is everybody waiting for? Armed revolution? Nibiru? NESARA? The White Hats? Gaia to decide she's had enough and shake humanity off the earth like fleas?

We have a choice between two extremes. To sit back if you have the opportunity to affect that choice is a choice of life path that many make and that results in a continuing downward spiral of intent and outcome.

While the system we have SUCKS, and nobody here disputes that, if you have the chance to affect change and you don't take it that is your choice.

And for all of those who state that it is all pre-chosen, that's true only to the extent that the PTB attempt to affect voters choices by bombarding them with ads and other social media, as well as direct enforcement through peer and the employment structures.

As the elections in 2004 and 2008 showed, the voter manipulation can be assayed, as Carmody stated, if the difference and distance between the two candidates and the vote tallies is large enough.

Action is required for real change, not sitting back and watching.

An interesting take on it, my friend, thank you. Perhaps I read your post wrong,, You seem to assume that not voting means that I am sitting back, watching and complaining and doing nothing. So can I also assume that you think your vote means that you are DOING SOMETHING? or that now you have the right to COMPLAIN? or that you, too are not SITTING BACK AND WATCHING?. We have different diffintions of what a vote means. I believe opposite of you. I believe that you are giving up your power to those whos lives goals are to TAKE IT! Voting at the polls is not DOING SOMETHING. I am a soveriegn individual who does not give up his power. I am also a Native American who knows that no matter which president was elected that the Free Peoples of the American Tribes would still be treated the way they have. (That does not mean that I blame it on the people who voted back then,,,) I am saying that I do not vote, and I do not appologize. And that is perfectly valid, especially concerning the state of Devils that we have to choose from.

I am not even trying to say that you are wrong.

P.S. I do PLENTY (and always will) in this reality and beyond to help change the reality in front of us now.

Cheers, I trust that there are no hard feelings here,,, we are just ingaging the topic..

Jake.

[Mark]

Posted by Jake (here)
Cheers, I trust that there are no hard feelings here,,, we are just ingaging the topic..

Of course not. As I am writing, I am actually smiling a bit at the fact that I am on PA actually in a discussion on the "for" side regarding the merits of voting. LOL Something I never thought I'd do.

Alright then, thank you for the bit of personal information. I am African-American but do you think that Barack Obama being in office has made things better for black folk? I wrote an article about that a bit ago and the answer is hell to the no, to quote the late Whitney Houston. Things have gotten much worse with no appeasement on the horizon.

The point is what Carmody expressed above, which I will quote in its entirety as it is so salient in today's political climate:

Posted by Carmody (here)
that is the subtle part. Send a message that votes can be dangerous if used, as opposed to not used.

Make it very hard to fake a Romney victory, as the situation is plain and simple. a Romney victory is a 'America goes directly to active full war' victory. it's the CIA/Nazi side of things directly in the white house, as opposed to someone who is forced to work with compromises and is compromised.

That is a big difference.

And when that is done, then get back to hammering the garbage that is occupying that office.

Switching to the "direct action/open action fascists" is a really bad idea..and not voting is a sure fire way to get there. For republicans always vote, it is the neutrals and the liberal types that always decide to protest --by not voting.

The numbers have to be high enough that it is difficult to lie about the vote turnout and the direction. it's like piling up 1000 pounds of sand, hoping that 1 pound of it will be recognized. But in this case, the alternative is worse.

Think about it. don't destroy the only stick that is holding things back, that is slowing things down...by trying to commit to the appearance of doing the right thing.


Fully blown open fascists in the presidential offices is a really bad thing. Seriously. Think about it. It's the difference between remote control by agreement and connection....vs direct full control, hands in and on the controls. It's possible to visualize it as something like the difference between a spymaster running things in the backdrop through subtlety, channels, agreement and cohersion... or a spymaster's best servant directly in the offices. A HUGE difference in effectiveness and capacity for forwarding agendas.

Now, also regarding non-voting, for those who are beyond the scope of engaging in political action due to spiritual purposes, that is another valid choice, as all choices are, be they in support of voting or not. The difference between these two candidates may not seem stark on the surface, but one will take us directly into a worse economic situation for the poor and downtrodden while the other is attempting to help stabilize the economic classes in this country which, granted, is concentrated on the middle-class, but that will at least allow some with the initiative and opportunity to gain that status to do so.

It's all a part of the same game, the same system, which is in need of radical change. But right now, as we are living in it, that radical change has not yet arrived and this election cycle the electorate is presented with a very stark choice.

A choice that voting can effect.

[Eram]

I don't vote either.

I choose to put my energies in things that matter to me and there are plenty of it. Things in which I can make a difference, like raising my kids to think for themselves and 'out of the box'.
Just trying to figure out which party (In Holland we have many) represents a few things that I believe in isn't worth the energy to me.

Will I be whipped by a yellow, a green or a red whip... no difference imo. It's still a whip.

The consciousness of humanity has to grow and we can not achieve that by voting for this or that party. On the contrary.
We as a human race have to wake up and tell our leaders: "Thank you for all the work that you have done in the past, but we'll take it from here"
..... and then we can become our own leaders and masters.

edit to add:
I pay my bills and I play the game to the extend that it will keep me out of trouble and harms way, but I don't buy into it with my beliefs and try to spend as little amount of energy to it as possible.

[we-R-one]

Rahkyt,

I appreciate your opinion, but you don't understand the legal system of THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. I'm not making fun of you as most don't. It wasn't until about 2 years ago that I had a good understanding myself and it's the very basis behind my thought process. You are not being given a choice in the presidential election, which is why I say it's an illusion to make people feel like they have a choice. The Republicans and Democrats are one in the same. They purposely generate whatever type of spin they want to try and make it convincing that they're the right man for the job....... You ask,

"Why would the republicans be trying so hard to disenfranchise so many people if it was an illusion?"

This is part of the illusion! They want you to believe this is real, pure and simple and since dollars are no issue, they can go to great lengths to achieve that perception. I don't think it's far fetched to say that they are most likely amused by our stupidity. It's a game to them, in which I imagine they enjoy playing very much, because they know the masses don't understand the very system which rules over them. We have been playing this game for years, not just here, but in other countries, and the only change we experience is being worse off than when we started.

Participating in the system is what keeps it alive. What you don't understand is your participation is needed for it to thrive, but more importantly, under the legal aspects, by participating, you are handing over LEGAL JURISDICTION, to the PTB. Participation is acquiescing. Those who participate are perpetuating the fraud and therefore are indirectly responsible for what's being handed down, though I imagine in a court of law they would argue and most likely win in proclaiming that you are fully responsible. Why? Because you're voluntarily participating in the system!...... Go back to the definition of GOVERNMENT DE FACTO.

To fellow forum members and guests, I will politely thank the posts on this thread out of the spirit of engaging in dialog and sharing thoughts, but that does not necessarily mean I agree with the viewpoints of all and that which has been posted. Kinda wish there was a different acknowledgement button instead.

[Jake]

one will take us directly into a worse economic situation for the poor and downtrodden while the other is attempting to help stabilize the economic classes

Both of them will take us directly into a worse economic situation for the poor and downtrodden while telling you exactly what you want to hear. This is where we disagree, meethinks. You believe that radical change will be brought upon us by a vote?! You believe that radical change will brought to us via whoever wins an election?!

HA!

Radical change must come from the PEOPLE, not its government. You cannot expect an elected official to change a power structure that got them into power!! It isn't going to happen, no matter who is elected. Radical change must happen in the hearts of the communities and the peoples of the country, and of the world, for that matter. The American system of government DOES NOT SUPPORT THIS!! I speak out every chance I get,, I grow a garden,, I volenteer at the local food bank,, I work in an organic orchard,, I have written a book about what it is that I believe, (Government/Religion/Science etc..) and I scream it from the rooftops! You cannot tell me that because I do not vote, that this world, our country, my community, and my family are not a bit better off, based on what I ACTUALLY DO!!!

I do admire you for your faith in the system. I have long since gotten over that. It is not the government that is going to save us...

[we-R-one]

Posted by Rahkyt (here)
The difference between these two candidates may not seem stark on the surface, but one will take us directly into a worse economic situation for the poor and downtrodden while the other is attempting to help stabilize the economic classes in this country which, granted, is concentrated on the middle-class, but that will at least allow some with the initiative and opportunity to gain that status to do so.


A choice that voting can effect.

You really believe that? Where's my gong sound effects, lol. Are you a dual citizen? As I see you're from Canada. These guys talk out of the sides of their mouth making promise after promise and never delivering. Why? Because they have no intention of delivering! HELLLOOOOOO

I know this quote is over-used, but it fits perfect into this scenario...."The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results!"

We are going downhill no matter who gets in office, because the PRESIDENT, is not running the show! The banking cartel, the one who holds the purse strings, and therefore is the one who's in control.

[Rocky_Shorz]

a vote for Romney is a vote to stay dependent on Oil...

oil men destroyed my life when I applied for a free energy Grant...

silly me thought powering our cars with wind was good for our future.

I applied for a $50K grant which is all it would have taken to put it together...

within 2 weeks, I received notices from IRS and the state that I now owed $70K...

they buried me to prevent me from moving forward.

the investors that came forward to invest, were threatened with death...

all this conspiracy talk really isn't, I have it all in black and white

the world is passing America by thank to the Bush clan...

electing Romney will set us back another 50 years...

the Republicans have been terrified from watching news, by those in control of the media who support big oil...

when oil men say we need more money, stories roll across the news, knowing investors reactions will be instant...

we're being played...

Obama has oil men and bankers pissed...

that's all I need to know

Not voting because you have been spun by media and can't decide between knowing what is right and what is being told, is a failure of democracy...

do you want Bush running this country again?

17 of the advisors he used have already been chosen by Romney, it isn't hard to see he offers no change...

he thinks Bernanke has done a great Job...

he wants to open our Parks, our National Treasures to oil men, knowing the thousands of wells capped right now, they refuse to pump until prices rise.

I'm not worried about Ahmadinejad, he isn't going to stop the flow of middle east oil...

but ol Bush will...

I have 10 wind generators ready to swing up over my home to power the neighborhood...

the sooner we walk away from the need for oil, the sooner changes, and I mean real ones, will happen...

[Mark]

Posted by we-R-one (here)
I appreciate your opinion, but you don't understand the legal system of THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. I'm not making fun of you as most don't. It wasn't until about 2 years ago that I had a good understanding myself and it's the very basis behind my thought process. You are not being given a choice in the presidential election, which is why I say it's an illusion to make people feel like they have a choice. The Republicans and Democrats are one in the same. They purposely generate whatever type of spin they want to try and make it convincing that they're the right man for the job.......

Thank you for your response, we-R-one! I've spent quite a bit of time looking at the sovereignty movement and the United States as a corporation, I understand that BO is the CEO and all that good stuff. I also understand the citizenship issues implicit in the co-optation of the 14th amendment and how being immersed in the system is implicit collusion with the system. I've also spent a lot of time looking at legal remedies, listening to videos and reading documents pertaining to what the US is and what our options are as individuals seeking to exist outside of the structure of this system. My response to all that:

1) I have a social security #

2) I have a legal fiction, a strawman

3) I have debt and an existence that is firmly within the auspices of the system

4) the US political and economic structure actively refute sovereign remedies, going so far as to break their own laws in order to do so.

Since all of that is the case, and we are living here, we are, again, immersed within the system while we are physically present within the nation and living and abiding by its legal structures, which means that, until a viable alternative becomes available, we are nominally and practically a part of the system.

It's each person's right to decide whether or not to engage the legal fiction and participate or not, as stated twice previously, all choices are valid, to vote or not, to sit out for spiritual or sovereign reasons, or whatever.

My point is that choosing the heads or tails side of the coin does make a difference in the short run. For most people within the system, until there is a viable alternative, this is all that we have unless we choose not to participate. To choose Romney is to choose to support the upper middle-class and the wealthy and their well-being. If you are in the middle-class or the lower-class you are not serving your own interests by choosing him. You are also not serving the interests of those who have chosen to be soldiers nor are you serving the interests of those in the middle class who belong to unions or enjoy any form of collective bargaining. By making that choice - by voting for Romney or not voting at all - the choice is being made to allow the apparently prefered candidate, Romney, to go ahead and take office and take things from bad to worse in record time. With Obama, it will take longer perhaps, but the end result - according to the machinations of the elite - will be the same. A country and world under total control run by Oligarchs who leech the wealth of the world for their own enjoyment.

Now, in support of your point, I totally agree that non-participation is the weapon that the populace does have that will finally end the domination of the elite and cause the system itself to fail. Non-participation serves the elite until a 100th monkey effect occurs, wherein the masses of the people choose, collectively and at the same time, not to participate.

Perhaps this election cycle will cause that to happen. It certainly has the potential to do so, especially since these are the times of consciousness raising. Since that is the case, it is also the time of mass mobilization as well. All that it will take to set that off is for the lived situations of a large proportion of the American electorate to lose whatever economic stability they may have, and that time cannot be too far off.

The system is fixed, in that, both parties are in support of the system. One party is inclusive while the other is not. One party is attempting to create a more broad-based foundation for inclusion and participation because the fact that it has not been so ever in its history is in large part the primary reason why the system cannot survive these times. The other party is attempting to consolidate the privilege of a population that is no longer in the majority by hook or crook.

For a large number of people to sit back and wait it out as a conscious strategy of contributing to the inevitable downfall of the entire system is probably one that will cause the more extreme potentialities to manifest sooner rather than later.

Posted by Jake (here)
I do admire you for your faith in the system. I have long since gotten over that. It is not the government that is going to save us...

I have no faith in the system, nor do I believe that radical change will come from the system. As you state, it will come from the people. My posts and experiences across this forum reflect that.

I just want the world to be as stable as possible for just a bit longer so more people can wake up and we can gain the necessary cascade of consciousness necessary for that radical change to occur.

Posted by we-R-one (here)
You really believe that? Where's my gong sound effects, lol. Are you a dual citizen? As I see you're from Canada.

I'm an American citizen.

Posted by we-R-one (here)
We are going downhill no matter who gets in office, because the PRESIDENT, is not running the show! The banking cartel, the one who holds the purse strings, and therefore is the one who's in control.

So let's let the war-mongering psychopath who wants to go to war with Iran asap into office right now so we who have chosen to delve deeper into the political and economic realities of the world can say "I told you so" to the "sheeple" who actually believe the governments actually make the decisions themselves, right? Or, if not that, so we can buckle down and save ourselves while the greater majority of the country goes to hell in a handbasket?

But we're about there now, aren't we.

A valid strategy, I suppose. For me, it's not about that. It's about the most people possible having the opportunity to awaken to the deeper realities. The longer total system failure can be postponed and the American people given the chance to see the error of their ways, the better.

Under a Romney presidency that will not be long at all.

[Jake]

Hello, Rocky! You had me at:

a vote for Romney is a vote to stay dependent on Oil...

You lost me at:

Obama has oil men and bankers pissed...

that's all I need to know

We all, clearly, have different definitions of what it means, or why, we vote. (or don't)

Pissing the oil companies off can be done by NOT filling up your tank,, (or endeavoring to live a lifestyle accordingly) or by not using petroleum based products of all sorts... Voting for Obama to piss off the oil companies? Good one. And while he is off in front of the camaras, pissing off the oil companies,,, he takes time to make sure he is taking away our basic rights, when we are not looking..

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...of-FREE-speech

I am not a supporter of ANY OF THEM,,, THEY ARE ALL PUPPETS, BEING CONTROLLED BY A HIDDEN HAND, AND WILL NOT LIFT A FINGER TO SAVE YOU!!!

That is my take on it... Vote for whoever you want to,,, it is not going to change things... YOU have to change things...

This discussion marks the only one that I have had this entire election season. So now I take my leave...

Cheers folks. We are all on the right side!!! Its why I love Avalon.

[Rocky_Shorz]

well a no vote is giving up and saying oil men and bankers deserve to run the country...

it is your choice, but in my eyes a sad one...

[Carmody]

Posted by Rocky_Shorz (here)
well a no vote is giving up and saying oil men and bankers deserve to run the country...

it is your choice, but in my eyes a sad one...

Essentially, Jake, it's all about pushing the front lines back a few miles and changing the crew that is 'coming at you' with regard to immediate intent to harm and act. By just a hair. Some minor aspects of a breathing space. it's not about voting, whatsoever.

One way i explained it to a friend:

The Bush/Nazi clan want to kill you without notice or concern. They want to shoot you in the back of the head, unawares as possible. As a matter of fact..that is what they are doing. take notice.

The Rothschild group, want to sit down at a table, open up some papers.... and discuss with you about how you are going to die...and they are moving forward, as well.


Take your pick.

[we-R-one]

Posted by Carmody (here)
that is the subtle part. Send a message that votes can be dangerous if used, as opposed to not used.

Make it very hard to fake a Romney victory, as the situation is plain and simple. a Romney victory is a 'America goes directly to active full war' victory. it's the CIA/Nazi side of things directly in the white house, as opposed to someone who is forced to work with compromises and is compromised.

That is a big difference.

This will never happen... because the elections are rigged and they can/will control the outcome, so this will have little bearing. See Bev Harris on you tube. She just did an excellent interview on the Alex Jones show. She invesitgates voter fraud, www.blackboxvoting.org. If you don't believe me, take a look at her work and decide from there.

I don't see what your proposing ever coming to light because our votes are being counted by a company in Spain, owned by George Soros. Google his name if you don't know who he is. Additionally, it is my understanding that the Romney Family Trust has ties to a voting machine company...why is that? Coudn't one say that's a conflict of interest?


Switching to the "direct action/open action fascists" is a really bad idea..and not voting is a sure fire way to get there. For republicans always vote, it is the neutrals and the liberal types that always decide to protest --by not voting.

We're headed there now whether we want to or not. I hate to say it, but you will never get the people all to not vote and you'll never get all the people to vote in the manner which you think they should vote

The numbers have to be high enough that it is difficult to lie about the vote turnout and the direction. it's like piling up 1000 pounds of sand, hoping that 1 pound of it will be recognized. But in this case, the alternative is worse.

Wishful thinking if one of the PTB didn't have the control over counting the votes, soooo, not gonna happen.

My comments are in bold with a couple of your points that I don't agree with.Not sure if you are aware of the voter fraud taking place and how our votes are being counted.