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Thread: OPT OUT! OPT OUT! (My recent experience, refusing airport scanner.)

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    Avalon Member Mozart's Avatar
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    Default Re: OPT OUT! OPT OUT! (My recent experience, refusing airport scanner.)

    Wow, Dennis!

    My blood just ****ing boils reading your awesome report.

    I'd be in jail, instead of typing out a report if I had done what you did.

    That took guts/courage and you have loads of it. Major props to you, bro!

    Wow.

    **** those TSA security bastards! **** them! I hate them more than anything on Earth ... and I've YET to deal with them and I have not flown since the beginning of 2001.

    I will never, ever fly again until they get rid of the goddamn, stupid TSA ****.

    But what's worse is the timidity of the American people. What a gutless, wimpy and compliant bunch of stupid ****s they are!

    I'm ashamed to call myself an American, totally ashamed. And I'm thoroughly, 100% ****ing disgusted with America and Americans. Stupid, stupid ... EFFING STUPID PEOPLE! ****, man! WTF? Geez.

    Major props to you, Dennis.

    ~Mozart

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    Default Re: OPT OUT! OPT OUT! (My recent experience, refusing airport scanner.)

    And if I was there, I would not simply tell them in a quiet, conversational tone "I want to opt out."

    I'd fvcking yell it out:

    "I'M OPTING OUT, OPTING OUT -- A PATRIOTIC, FOUNDING-FATHER-SUPPORTING MALE OPTING OUT!"

    Loud! Effing loud!

    But I'd do that ONLY if a goddamn Attorney was traveling with me, though!

    *grin*

    But, seriously, if I was alone, they wisk me away into a room the eff the **** out of me, so I would not do the shouting out without an Atty present with me for my own protection.

    Silly daydream and comments, I know ... good thing that I don't have to fly.

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    Default Re: OPT OUT! OPT OUT! (My recent experience, refusing airport scanner.)

    Buried in the text above is a link to the best article I could find on millimeter wave scanners' effect on the human body. Here's that link again: TSA's Millimeter Wave Scanners Radiate Cells With Untested and Dangerous Technology

    It was actually very difficult to find an article that dealt with this side of the argument - I was probably 8 or 10 search results pages in (using IXQuick instead of Google) before I found an article! However, there were plenty of pages reassuring me that getting zapped is no big deal. There was one article, saying that millimeter waves pose no health threat, that had been repeated on a dozen websites (I could tell, reading the identical text blurb that comes up with the URLs found in the search.) That means, only someone diligent enough to keep looking will even find an article that unveils the dark side of millimeter-wave scans on cells, and even worse, it means any sort of normal search will yield "Trust your government - everything is OK." kind of propaganda. Goebbels would be so proud of his mentoring!

    Dennis


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    Default Re: OPT OUT! OPT OUT! (My recent experience, refusing airport scanner.)

    Quote Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)
    They completed the pat-downs on both of us, then used a machine to scan their gloves for (I assume) bomb-making stuff. After a long 15 seconds, the machines lit a green signal, declaring that we were not currently carrying explosives.
    Duck! -- Incoming tin foil hat conspiracy theory:
    Perhaps the machine was reading key details of your DNA from trace bits of your skin left on their gloves? Perhaps the full-body millimeter-wave scanners are their preferred way to read this, but they can do it off the gropers gloves as an alternative? Perhaps the reason that the TSA is moving some of these scanners to smaller airports is to get better coverage of this data collection, from flyers who don't happen to frequent the larger airports.
    Last edited by ThePythonicCow; 1st November 2012 at 16:32.
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    Default Re: OPT OUT! OPT OUT! (My recent experience, refusing airport scanner.)

    I've learned some invaluable lessons in dealing with unreasonable authority in the last couple of years or so, by going about it in both the right way, and the wrong way. You know what happened just about a year ago, when I dealt with it in the wrong way by shooting my big mouth off too much, even though without a doubt I held the moral high ground? I found myself suddenly very tightly handcuffed, escorted to a paddywagon, and enjoyed a night in the county jail, as my wife exhausted herself all night trying to figure out how to get me out of there.

    You know what? Jail ain't fun. It's one thing to be here on the outside, knowing that our rights are ALMOST gone. When you find yourself shuffled around the android bureaucracy of the inside, you are hit with the realization that you now have NO rights. With just a little bit of imagination, it's easy to see how someone, especially after the NDAA, can simply be disappeared.

    Now don't get me wrong here, I'm not fearful of paying even the ultimate penalty, but it had better be for the right reason, done the right way, and at the right time. Otherwise, I've just screwed myself, and that's it. Game over dumbass.(LOL) Every time I have looked unreasonable authority directly in the eye, calmly said "no", and stood my ground, things have gone o.k.. Most of them are too rigidly indoctrinated to know how to deal with that. What they savor however, is the prospect of a heated exchange, and they will "merrily" begin that exchange. This is the big excuse to exercise the bully power they so love.

    Bottom line, don't be afraid of saying a very calm, but direct "no" to the scanner. Or being unduly groped for that matter. Listen, I'm not a tough guy, or an overly brave man, but I've looked a TSA guy directly in the eye at the foot of the scanner, and said calmly: "I'm not going through that". They are people too, and can quickly sense your "presence", whether you are just being surly and full of bluster, or are most serious, and prepared to stand. The answer was: "Right over here for a quick security patdown then sir". And it WAS just a basic patdown.

    This is precisely what David Icke is emphasising, when he says although it's vital to know the big multi-dimensional picture, it's also vital to be up on what is directly affecting us right here in this 3-D reality. As always, proper balance is key.

    Cheers,
    Fred
    Last edited by Fred Steeves; 1st November 2012 at 16:28.

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    Default Re: OPT OUT! OPT OUT! (My recent experience, refusing airport scanner.)

    I flew to Denver for the weekend to see my dad about a year and half ago, back then I didnt know the dangers of the scanners so I went right thru the machine. Boy times have drastically changed since waking up a year ago. Im pretty rebellious at times so I know next time I will be opting out.

    Thanks for the story,
    I hope more will take a stand !

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    Default Re: OPT OUT! OPT OUT! (My recent experience, refusing airport scanner.)

    I fly a good bit and go through those xray scanners every other week! It's a wonder I have any sperm left with only one head.

    For the people from different countries : What is the flying situation in your areas? Do you have massive security and checkpoints? Do they xray your bags, etc etc.?

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    Default Re: OPT OUT! OPT OUT! (My recent experience, refusing airport scanner.)

    Thanks for the post Dennis. Hope things are well with your daughter.

    Quote Posted by Fred Steeves (here)
    Every time I have looked unreasonable authority directly in the eye, calmly said "no", and stood my ground, things have gone o.k.
    Absolutely Fred! About 20-25 years ago, a lawyer I hired gave me advice which stuck with me all this time - "Music soothes the beast"

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    Default Re: OPT OUT! OPT OUT! (My recent experience, refusing airport scanner.)

    Kudos Dennis and Thanks for sharing this with us, I applaud thee.... WE need more people like you to make an imprint. I have often pondered a thought that these machines they make the passengers go through like cattle to a slaughter by The Toilet Safety Administration, could have an effect on our bodies. Most like women could get effected by a Mammogram.... I'm not sure if i would fly anymore, as i would get arrested in this scenario and wouldn't be so lucky as you.

    I had to include this video, get the kleenex ready....funny as hell.....

    "Although I Live On This World, I Choose Not To Live In It"
    <:~W.F.~:>

    "The answer to every question can be found in nature, if one knows how to look and listen”
    Gwilda Wiyaka

    "Everything on the Earth has a purpose, Every disease a herb to cure it, and every person a mission. This is the Indian theory of existence".
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    Default Re: OPT OUT! OPT OUT! (My recent experience, refusing airport scanner.)

    I fly a lot. Have been doing so for several years now. So far in 2012, I have been through airport security at least 60 times, and have come to some conclusions.

    There are definitely differences between airports. When flying between Canada and the US, aiport A security and customs is so thorough as to be comical (scan your boarding pass three times before you even take your shoes off, and each point is withing 20 feet of the other), airport B barely even slows down to take a look at you. Time of day makes a difference. Day of the week makes a difference. Region of the country, size of airport, what terminal within that airport, how many infrequent fliers can't remember not to bring a 168 oz tub of shampoo with them and then give the TSA agent a hard time about it, yada, yada, yada

    TSA exists primarily to give political cover in case something bad does happen, and so that the government can show us all how hard they are working to keep us safe. But yes, there are plenty of bad people out there that would dance in the streets if an airliner went down with women and children aboard. How many Lockerbie family members asked themselves and their government why it was so easy to put a bomb on the plane. (I'm leaving 9-11 out of this)

    That being said, I do think the TSA is looking at yesterday's threat and not tomorrow's. As Fred said, it wouldn't really be that hard to make a mess of things if you were so dispositioned. Thank the heavens that your average nutjob with a bomb just isn't really that bright.

    Most TSA agents are work a day stiffs making barely more more money than your average McDonalds clerk, but they do get benefits.

    They don't like doing patdowns any more than you like it as a passenger. Everyone seems to hate them just because of the uniform, but they also like feeding their families, so hey, it's a job. Try being polite to them, they are humans too and respond really well to a smile.

    I'm not fond of scanners either, but the truth is that you probably really do get more radiation from sitting on the plane than you do from the scanner. I opt out every once in a while just for sh*ts and giggles and to remind other people that they do have a choice if it is really that important to them (nice work Dennis!).

    And as much as I hate to admit it, and I really do hate to admit it, if all of this TSA crap has saved a single plane from going down, just one plane in 11 years, then it's worth it. I can talk about principles and freedom and the evils of the TSA, but you would change your tune quickly if it was your loved one's who died in a fiery crater leaving nothing to bury.
    Last edited by Lazlo; 1st November 2012 at 18:41.
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    Default Re: OPT OUT! OPT OUT! (My recent experience, refusing airport scanner.)

    I've never flown outside Canada since 9/11 so I have had no such experiences .. but I am afraid ... afraid I would end up in jail because I would not be able to hold my words back ... lol .Not sure if I could go through that without creating a scene of some sort ...

    Glad to hear you got your trip in Dennis.
    When you are one step ahead of the crowd, you are a genius.
    Two steps ahead, and you are deemed a crackpot.

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    Default Re: OPT OUT! OPT OUT! (My recent experience, refusing airport scanner.)

    Quote Posted by Lazlo (here)
    TSA exists primarily to give political cover in case something bad does happen
    I suspect that TSA has more purpose than just political cover.

    They seem to be part of some other operations, including getting the people accustomed to a higher level of tyranny, and collecting bio-data, correlated with other personal data, on as many people as possible.
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    Default Re: OPT OUT! OPT OUT! (My recent experience, refusing airport scanner.)

    Quote Posted by Lazlo (here)
    And as much as I hate to admit it, and I really do hate to admit it, if all of this TSA crap has saved a single plane from going down, just one plane in 11 years, then it's worth it.
    They are stealing the liberty of ourselves, and our descendants, world-wide. Many brave men have died defending that liberty. TSA is not about saving planes from going down; the bastards controlling the TSA determine which planes will go down, and choose to kill millions, with toxic drugs, food, air, water, wars, ...

    I would gladly choose a free world, with notoriously unreliable planes, over a prison planet with perfect planes.
    Last edited by ThePythonicCow; 1st November 2012 at 20:32.
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    Default Re: OPT OUT! OPT OUT! (My recent experience, refusing airport scanner.)

    I usuallly fly from airport A (stupidly complex passage and examinations) when going in the US. And yes, it has gotten ridicusly complicated to a point where I swear to myself that I would avoid US airlines altogether mostly when going to Europe or down south (Mexico and south).

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    Default Re: OPT OUT! OPT OUT! (My recent experience, refusing airport scanner.)

    Quote Posted by Paul (here)
    Quote Posted by Lazlo (here)
    And as much as I hate to admit it, and I really do hate to admit it, if all of this TSA crap has saved a single plane from going down, just one plane in 11 years, then it's worth it.
    They are stealing the liberty of ourselves, and our descendants, world-wide. Many brave men have died defending that liberty. TSA is about saving planes from going down; the bastards controlling the TSA determine which planes will go down, and choose to kill millions, with toxic drugs, food, air, water, wars, ...

    I would gladly choose a free world, with notoriously unreliable planes, over a prison planet with perfect planes.
    Paul, All valid points (channeling Obi Wan here) from a certain point of view....

    I said nothing about aircraft reliability. I am talking about the intent of evil men.

    I believe that it can best be attributed to a difference in our assumptions (assumptions are dangerous things, but we all make them)

    Your posts on this topic would indicate that you believe there is very rigid planning and control from a small group of individuals with nefarious intent.

    I see the world as a place with many competing interests. While there are certainly those who take advantage of events to pursue their own agenda, I simply don't believe that all of the events of the last century which led us to where we are today were part of a master plan.

    Cultural conflict is as old as culture, and the forces of history push us all along. Yes, there are people who are using the TSA for their own ends, but the TSA was created as a response to a tragic event (genuine or engineered) and has morphed into a monster that has taken on a life of it's own.

    I simply don't see the TSA as a step to an Orwellian distopia in which we are all destined to be in chains. The "Dancing With The Stars", NASCAR watching sheeple got what they asked for. If they would get off of the couch and demand change, change would happen. It's not the TSA, it's everything.

    Power wasn't taken from us, we gave it away.

    "All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing"
    Burke, Edmund
    Last edited by Lazlo; 1st November 2012 at 20:06.
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    Default Re: OPT OUT! OPT OUT! (My recent experience, refusing airport scanner.)

    Quote Posted by Paul (here)
    Quote Posted by Lazlo (here)
    And as much as I hate to admit it, and I really do hate to admit it, if all of this TSA crap has saved a single plane from going down, just one plane in 11 years, then it's worth it.
    They are stealing the liberty of ourselves, and our descendants, world-wide. Many brave men have died defending that liberty. TSA is about saving planes from going down; the bastards controlling the TSA determine which planes will go down, and choose to kill millions, with toxic drugs, food, air, water, wars, ...

    I would gladly choose a free world, with notoriously unreliable planes, over a prison planet with perfect planes.
    I agree, lazlo's "if it prevents just one ... it was worth it" is not an accurate assessment of the situation -- first let's look how big a problem it actually is ... In some well put together study I read a few years ago (sorry no resources ), it was deemed that it would take about 10-12 iterations of 9/11 type events happening per year (by deaths it caused), to consider flying the equal to driving in terms of risk of death. About one 9/11 event per every single month.

    Why aren't they stealing our liberties to make driving safer? Why, when they claim they want to prevent deaths, don't they actually try to prevent where the deaths are being caused from. The is huge disproportion in level of logic applied to that reasoning ... its all about control with fear .. it is obvious.

    My 2 cents
    Last edited by DeDukshyn; 2nd November 2012 at 00:40.
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    Default Re: OPT OUT! OPT OUT! (My recent experience, refusing airport scanner.)

    Quote Posted by Lazlo (here)
    Your posts on this topic would indicate that you believe there is very rigid planning and control from a small group of individuals with nefarious intent.
    ...

    Power wasn't taken from us, we gave it away.
    Ah - yes - it is not their fault at all. It is our fault for giving power away, and my fault for holding unreasonable beliefs .

    You misrepresent my beliefs, you present a false dichotomy (all their fault or all ours), and the bastards don't deserve a free pass.
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    Default Re: OPT OUT! OPT OUT! (My recent experience, refusing airport scanner.)

    Quote Posted by Paul (here)
    Quote Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)
    They completed the pat-downs on both of us, then used a machine to scan their gloves for (I assume) bomb-making stuff. After a long 15 seconds, the machines lit a green signal, declaring that we were not currently carrying explosives.
    Duck! -- Incoming tin foil hat conspiracy theory:
    Perhaps the machine was reading key details of your DNA from trace bits of your skin left on their gloves? Perhaps the full-body millimeter-wave scanners are their preferred way to read this, but they can do it off the gropers gloves as an alternative? Perhaps the reason that the TSA is moving some of these scanners to smaller airports is to get better coverage of this data collection, from flyers who don't happen to frequent the larger airports.
    When I had my pat down (by the way, that's how I said it - I'd like a pat down - maybe that was why she was so polite - she was afraid I was REALLY enjoying it ;-p ) I don't recall her testing her gloves.

    Hummm....I might be onto something there - just tell them "I would really LIKE a pat down" with a big 'ol $hit eating grin on your face, and make them more uncofortable doing it, than you do experiencing it. If you say you want to Opt Out, that just reinforces that wording. No one mentioned Opt Out when I said I wanted a pat down. Reverse psychology
    Last edited by Snookie; 1st November 2012 at 20:54.

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    United States Avalon Member Dennis Leahy's Avatar
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    Default Re: OPT OUT! OPT OUT! (My recent experience, refusing airport scanner.)

    If there are real terrorists, and if they deliberately target civilians, then every place that crowds gather are unsafe. If you insist on making all of those places safe, then every church, PTA meeting, high school volleyball game, mall, museum, bus, train, restaurant, polling place, bar, school, concert, company picnic, family reunion, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. needs TSA agents, full body scanners, metal detectors, and bomb sniffing equipment. If the citizens of the USA somehow rise up and take their rightful place as a government of citizens representing citizens (see "The Reset Button"), AND those citizens vote to make all gatherings subject to this type of invasive scrutiny, no privacy, and everyone suspicious of everyone, I will find another country to call home. That scenario describes tyranny to me - tyranny disguised as safety.

    I don't even have to go this far, but the US government will: scanning for pre-crime is next. The NDAA already allows it.

    I suspect there are some real terrorists that are not affiliated with any governments and/or black-ops wing of governments and/or nefarious corporate entities and/or "Cabal"/Illuminati. But I suspect that at least 98% of terror is performed by those organizations. The percentage may even be closer to 99.9%. Therefore, the war on terror is phony, and (especially if somehow the black-ops are no longer ordered to commit terrorist acts) we can all drop the pretence that anyone could ever make the world a safe place and drop back to - at the very minimum - pre 9/11 levels of security.

    Dennis


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    Great Britain Avalon Member Kiforall's Avatar
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    Default Re: OPT OUT! OPT OUT! (My recent experience, refusing airport scanner.)

    I think I've been well and truly irradiated from when I worked at the Vets.
    Even with the lead gowns and gloves the scatter from our ancient ex NHS machine probably sent X rays out to the passing public lol

    If people were to opt out and give the impression they 'enjoyed' the patting down, in the most creepy way they could muster, it would be great to see if this made them feel unconfortable.

    Zoe x
    Experiencing pain and suffering is the gateway to joy and happiness.
    It's chronic pain that prevents the gateway opening.

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