OPT OUT! OPT OUT! (My recent experience, refusing airport scanner.)

[ViralSpiral]

Posted by hardrock (here)
I fly a good bit and go through those xray scanners every other week! It's a wonder I have any sperm left with only one head.

For the people from different countries : What is the flying situation in your areas? Do you have massive security and checkpoints? Do they xray your bags, etc etc.?

I live in Munich and fly a lot regionally as well as a fair amount of international long-haul flights too. Although strict about liquids and the obvious no-no's, they are pretty relaxed. Yes they do scan the bags which I think is by now, a world norm. Even in Botswana

I did once have a nail file confiscated (small! could probably have inflicted a deathly blow to a pilot rat ). Only boots need to be removed i.e. not all shoes. If the alarm beeps, the "pat down" is nothing more than a gentle (normal) frisk down.

And no scan booths

I would probably also have shouted back: I OPTED OUT! I OPTED OUT!

[blake]

From my perspective, Mr. Leahy’s experience at the Denver Airport, as he described it, is a good example of how controlled and trapped all Americans are in their basic living style. Many Americans may want to say no to an unconstitutional, invasive system, and yet they also want to live their lives. The government no longer secures our freedom, it only secures their control over each individual: child or adult. If an American decides to avoid the system, out of moral decency, while supporting the fundamental principles on which America was founded , the current systems makes it nearly impossible for them to live their lives. So the individual, because she/he wants to live their life, will always concede to the system, making it so much easier to terrorize the average American into giving up more and more of their rights, with each passing season, and that includes their parental rights.

Most Americans choose to be short sighted about choosing to go along with the system, in order to live their life. But seldom will an individual honesty look at the incrementalism that is building with each concession they make to the system in order for them to live their lives. Since all Americans choose to live their lives, by interacting with the system, despite the government’s intrusive ways, the government is merely conditioning the populace to accept, without question, whatever an individual “ in authority” will require of you. I wonder what the government will require next year of an individual to travel to their family’s wedding, funeral, graduation, or crisis?

For Mr. Leahy, the price paid to attend his family wedding/reunion was to deal with the TSA, while gambling that it would go well without any complications. He knew he had to go along with whatever was asked of him, and that he had to keep his temper and thoughts to himself, no matter what they did, if he wanted to return home directly and not via a jail cell and all that entails. So, as Mr. Steeves so eloquently expressed in his posts, keeping one’s thoughts and temper to one’s self is necessary in order not to be arrested. When you have children traveling with you, the anti goes up with the gambling, as you give up all say on how the system treats your child. And each child has their own unique psychological make up, history, and experience or lack or experience. If the parent doesn’t like how their child is being treated, or if their child is in distress, what can the parent do about it without being arrested? If you object in any way, or can’t give a controlled, calm “ no”, which doesn’t always work, , there is a good chance you will be separated from your child, and be arrested. And then life even gets more complicated. Expressing emotions is grounds for arrest.

Mr. Leahy wrote he didn’t let his daughter out of his sight, and kept her near, as any protective father would do. Perhaps psychologically that gave his thirteen-year-old daughter moral support, while making him feel as if he had more control over the situation than he actually did. But honestly, what would he had done if she had a “less than professional” TSA agent patting her down who was having a bad day? If his daughter experienced some sort of distress, all Mr. Leahy could do was file a complaint after the fact, and the damage had already been done. If he spoke up, or tried to come to his daughter’s defense, chances are extremely high he would have been arrested. So he took a gamble, as everyone does when they interact with the system so they can live their lives. Yet everyday the very vast majority of Americans, including those who claim to be awake and aware, risk interacting with the systems. And it is a risk on so many levels, especially when good people, just trying to live their lives, protect their family and keep their dignity, never know the psychology and personality behind the badge that give a stranger the government force to pat you, your child, or elderly grandparents down. You all have read the many TSA horror stories, especially those involving the children, the sick and the elderly. And yet in order for Americans to live their lives, in order to go to their weddings, their graduations, or any simple act in the joy, or necessity of living, most people will take the gamble of losing more than just a stolen good from their belongings, and assume that it will be all right if they just don’t object to the wrong that they know is going on in front of their very eyes. Rationalization, looking the other way, self justification, "the think tanks" understand human nature in every detail very well . They know how much they can force the average "aware American”, because even the “aware American" has to live their life. And they all are willing to pay the price of being conditioned to accept what is inherently wrong. The masses won’t object to these wrong doings because it will interfere in their lives, and even if they are aware, they can’t organize themselves into any type of force of goodness against this rape against privacy, dignity, and inalienable rights, because the masses won’t organize themselves. They look and hope that magically something will happen to correct a very bad situation, without their lives being disrupted.


Mr. Leahy, like many Americans, looked at his options; he choose to interact with the system. I don’t think anyone can fault his forced choice to fly. The fact that his spouse was also controlled by the system, her job, seemed to be the reinforcing factor. But what seems to be lost in the responding posts is that, from my perspective, he did not keep his dignity or that of his daughter’s when he consented to the pat downs. He was given a choice between two evils, as the system usually offers to its victims. He could go through the scanner, or he could have his personal dignity of body space invaded, hoping it would not be too invasive or traumatizing for his young daughter. I view the “pat down” at the very least, as a violation of my fourth amendment rights. From a psychological perspective, the “pat downs” runs the course across many lines but especially conditions people, especially children, that their private space and body are not under their control, with all the implications and complications of that. The public, especially children, are being heavily conditioned to bend over whenever the government says to without complaint, or emotional tears or one very well may be arrested. How many readers have noticed how parents are having less and less say over their children? Interacting with the systems is just one of the ways the government flicks their power over parental protectiveness of their children. Exactly how much parental control does a parent have during the pat down of a child, no matter what their age?

My point is that the” pat down” is just as insidious as the scanner. One is physical damage; the other is psychological damage at the very least. Exactly who owns your body? Obviously the United States government is conditioning your children that they do not own themselves, the government does.

From what I have observed, Americans want to pretend they are in control of their lives and that they have options. But the government knows it can buy all Americans ethics and behavior by simply making it nearly impossible to live their private lives without giving up their time, their privacy, and dignity.

I am happy Mr. Leahy got to go to his family reunion, and returned safely home without incidence. The next time he may or may not be so lucky. I do hope that he or anyone else doesn’t’ live with the illusion there was any victory for Mr. Leahy, or his daughter in preserving their basic rights, freedom, or dignity in choosing what they obviously thought was the lesser of two evils. He, like everyone else, was just part of the crowd being shepparded, by the border collies TSA agents into the corral where the government is conditioning all Americans to trade their freedom, rights, privacy and dignity in order that they can, for now, still lead their lives. Most unfortunately these same Americans are rationalizing that they are awake and aware even though their present actions are simply conditioning them, incrementally, for even more enslavement. Reactions to threads like these demonstrate clearly that the time will come when even self professed awake and aware Americans will wear the implanted chip, because without it, these “ awake and aware” Americans will not be able to go to family reunions, pay their taxes, or get something that they need that they can’t grow, barter, make or steal. The time has come for Americans to choose to be free, and to own themselves, or be a slave and have the government own them. The more you can free yourself of the systems, the better chances your family will have at owning themselves. The election is next week, and like choosing between a scanner and a pat down, the American people get to choose between Obama and Romney. I wonder what will it take for the awake and the aware to choose freedom.

I am not attacking Mr. Leahy for his choices. I quite understand them. So sad for America that so many are forced to make the choice as he did. I am simply using his experience as an illustration as to what Americans are facing everyday, and why I think those forced choices are just tightening the noose around every American’s neck. I personally think Americans have crossed the line of having any chance of freedom and dignity. I do believe we will have a civil war. Yet, I do wonder how “awake and aware” Americans will then make their choices. My choice is secession as our only hope of freedom.

When one weighs the issue of scanners and pat downs, I think it is important to ponder that our military, in the middle east, uses trained dogs for their security to do what these machines and "pat downs" are suppose to do for our "security" here in America. Well you all know.. follow the money, and condition the people! These scanners and pat down are not about security, but that would be a whole other thread.......................

Sincerely,

Mr. Davis

[Lazlo]

Posted by Paul (here)

Posted by Lazlo (here)
Your posts on this topic would indicate that you believe there is very rigid planning and control from a small group of individuals with nefarious intent.

...

Power wasn't taken from us, we gave it away.

Ah - yes - it is not their fault at all. It is our fault for giving power away, and my fault for holding unreasonable beliefs .

You misrepresent my beliefs, you present a false dichotomy (all their fault or all ours), and the bastards don't deserve a free pass.

Paul, you are pulling quotes out of context...again. That's not what I said. We are obviously talking right past one another at the moment.

[DeDukshyn]

Posted by Kiforall (here)
I think I've been well and truly irradiated from when I worked at the Vets.
Even with the lead gowns and gloves the scatter from our ancient ex NHS machine probably sent X rays out to the passing public lol

If people were to opt out and give the impression they 'enjoyed' the patting down, in the most creepy way they could muster, it would be great to see if this made them feel unconfortable.

Zoe x

If I ever have the chance I'll fake an intense arousal during the pat down That should be good

[PHARAOH]

Posted by westhill (here)
Brave is the first word that came to mind.
It's easy to think about standing up, but when the time comes to following through,
that takes guts! You and your daughter did us all a service. Please thank her for me.

Thank you all for your acknowledgments. Much appreciated. It really is just that simple. Remember, they are playing on your fears of, "what will people think or say of me". Remember this is the ego speaking to your mind.

[ThePythonicCow]

Posted by Lazlo (here)
We are obviously talking right past one another at the moment.

Agreed .

[Fred Steeves]

Posted by blake (here)

Mr. Leahy wrote he didn’t let his daughter out of his sight, and kept her near, as any protective father would do. Perhaps psychologically that gave his thirteen-year-old daughter moral support, while making him feel as if he had more control over the situation than he actually did. But honestly, what would he had done if she had a “less than professional” TSA agent patting her down who was having a bad day? If his daughter experienced some sort of distress, all Mr. Leahy could do was file a complaint after the fact, and the damage had already been done. If he spoke up, or tried to come to his daughter’s defense, chances are extremely high he would have been arrested.

Hi there Blake, you make many valid, well thought out points, as you often do. What I said in an earlier post applies here:

Now don't get me wrong here, I'm not fearful of paying even the ultimate
penalty, but it had better be for the right reason, done the right way, and at
the right time.

If I were a father, and was witnessing first hand my 13 year old daughter being fingered in, say the crotch area, and I didn't immediately proceed to stand up for her in that moment, I would no longer deserve to be known as her father.

These matters can be handled without a physical confrontation, and a father with his wits about him, might just be able to get the witnesses around him to join in the calling out of a pedophile. There's a personal motto I carry with at all times: "The right person, in the right place, at the right time, and doing exactly the right thing, can change the world for the better in the blink of an eye".

It may be a long shot, while playing on someone else's home field, but that's precisely what great moments in time are all about. Even if I wind up doing 10 years for making that stand, atleast I can live with myself. I reckon I would command some respect in prison as well.

Cheers,
Fred

[gripreaper]

Posted by DeDukshyn (here)

Posted by Kiforall (here)
I think I've been well and truly irradiated from when I worked at the Vets.
Even with the lead gowns and gloves the scatter from our ancient ex NHS machine probably sent X rays out to the passing public lol

If people were to opt out and give the impression they 'enjoyed' the patting down, in the most creepy way they could muster, it would be great to see if this made them feel unconfortable.

Zoe x

If I ever have the chance I'll fake an intense arousal during the pat down That should be good

I have not flown since 9-11. but when I do, I'm going to have some fun with it.

I'll break out my best "puffy shirt" with a very open chest, wear some gold chains around my neck, some pointy cowboy boots (you know the kind you can kill a cockroach in the corner of a room with) and a pair of jeans about 3 sizes too small, and wear a cup. I may even put on some make up, like eye liner and rouge.

Then, I'll act all excited for the pat down!

[Buck]

Posted by Paul (here)

Posted by Lazlo (here)
And as much as I hate to admit it, and I really do hate to admit it, if all of this TSA crap has saved a single plane from going down, just one plane in 11 years, then it's worth it.

They are stealing the liberty of ourselves, and our descendants, world-wide. Many brave men have died defending that liberty. TSA is not about saving planes from going down; the bastards controlling the TSA determine which planes will go down, and choose to kill millions, with toxic drugs, food, air, water, wars, ...

I would gladly choose a free world, with notoriously unreliable planes, over a prison planet with perfect planes.

well said Paul, well said


" Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!"
Patrick Henry, March 23, 1775

[skyflower]

I have been lucky for a few years and avoided those back scatter machines. However this past May I was faced with the choice, flying out of LAX, and opted out. It was a non-event, the tsa people just did what they were told to do, and let me on my way. But, I was the only opt out while I was there. My co-worker even asked me what did I have in my carry on to be singled out like that, and when I told him I asked to opt out, he looked at me with a puzzled face.

[Dennis Leahy]

Blake,

First, I would like to ask you once again not to speak to me in such a formal tone. Being called "Mr. Leahy" makes me think of the Matrix movie, and the condescendingly snarky vibe of the villain calling Neo "Mr. Anderson." Honestly, the vibe that's coming through is sort of a seething restraint, a faux formality lightly veiling contempt. Let's keep it casual, OK? We can be both casual and respectful. And if you simply cannot shake the habit of adding a title to my name, you could use "Reverend", because I am an ordained minister. Yep, I got my wallet-sized credentials from the Universal Life Church to prove it (and it was good enough to switch me from "1-A" -available, unrestricted- to "2-D" -student of divinity- so that if I went to Vietnam it would have been with a copy of the Tao te Ching and not a gun.) OK, so now that we've dispensed with the pseudoformality...

At first, it seemed as if you got the gist of my post: the goddamned TSA and their scanners, and how ridiculous it was that (on that day, at that time) I seemed to be the only person opting not to be milimeter-waved. But then you diverted off and made it sound like you would have handled my situation quite differently. You don't say how, exactly, and you left me curious - especially with this:

I am happy Mr. Leahy got to go to his family reunion, and returned safely home without incidence. The next time he may or may not be so lucky. I do hope that he or anyone else doesn’t’ live with the illusion there was any victory for Mr. Leahy, or his daughter in preserving their basic rights, freedom, or dignity in choosing what they obviously thought was the lesser of two evils. He, like everyone else, was just part of the crowd being shepparded, by the border collies TSA agents into the corral where the government is conditioning all Americans to trade their freedom, rights, privacy and dignity in order that they can, for now, still lead their lives. Most unfortunately these same Americans are rationalizing that they are awake and aware even though their present actions are simply conditioning them, incrementally, for even more enslavement.

Did I mention not feeling joyous, and not feeling like some sort of a hero? No? Well, then allow me to spell it out: I opted out, and opted my daughter out - of getting our bodies scanned. That's all. I didn't run a victory lap. I was quite pissed off and full of adrenaline, and it took my body a couple of hours to normalize. Parents make hundreds of thousands of choices in their children's lives, and I know I've made some really good ones and some that weren't so good. But don't walk away smugly feeling like there was no "Catch-22", and that she could have come through this family wedding event without experiencing any psychological trauma. If you think her missing this wedding that every one of her cousins, aunts and uncles, and paternal grandparents would be at would have been a non-event in a 13 year-old girl's life, then you are ignorant of 13 year old girls.

Like the story of the Zen monk that set the woman down back at the river's edge, my daughter seems to have left the pat-down event behind. Not to minimize the trauma of a pat-down, but I can guarantee that there would have been a huge trauma over the course of months if she had been the only person out of 40 family members who was not allowed to go.

So, spell it out, what does a real awake and aware person do in this case? What exactly would you have done?


and then there was this sort of finger-wagging, goading challenge:

Mr. Leahy wrote he didn’t let his daughter out of his sight, and kept her near, as any protective father would do. Perhaps psychologically that gave his thirteen-year-old daughter moral support, while making him feel as if he had more control over the situation than he actually did. But honestly, what would he had done if she had a “less than professional” TSA agent patting her down who was having a bad day? If his daughter experienced some sort of distress, all Mr. Leahy could do was file a complaint after the fact, and the damage had already been done. If he spoke up, or tried to come to his daughter’s defense, chances are extremely high he would have been arrested.

It is easy to sound like a "tough guy" in retrospect, but yes, had there been a moment where I felt the TSA agent was 'molesting' rather than 'patting-down' I can say there would have been instant action on my part, and yes, it would have resulted in my arrest. By insisting that I stand next to my daughter while she was being patted down, I reversed the "normal" intimidation that they employ as part of the psychological disassembly process. At 6'-2" and 220 pounds, I felt no intimidation, but I'll bet the female TSA agent did.

...he did not keep his dignity or that of his daughter’s when he consented to the pat downs. He was given a choice between two evils...

This choice was not made at the airport, nor was it made spur-of-the-moment or under duress. It was made calmly, at home, two months prior. I didn't tell my daughter what she had to do; I asked her if she would consent to a pat-down, because it would be the guaranteed response to refusing the scanner. I explained to her that it would be a woman, and that she would use the back of her hands. I told her she could just tell me no, that there was no pressure to say yes. I told her that it was unconstitutional but the crooks running the government made it "legal" to act unconstitutionally. She knows exactly where I'm coming from, as I have had many long talks with her to clue her in to the bastards running the show. I have told her that there are no terrorists and that these type of things are to keep the fear factor as high as possible, in order to convince US citizens to support (or at least not protest) the illegal wars. She didn't just drop off of a turnip truck.

She also knows that I have been working on a plan to actually rectify the situation, and not just moaning and bitching or smugly playing "more aware than thou" games on a keyboard with far-flung strangers.

So, what you got? Specifically, if your personal choice - for your own pursuit of happiness - involves air travel through one of the major airports, how will you face (how have you faced) the reality that if you want on that plane, you're going to submit to a pat-down or a scan?


Dennis

[Maunagarjana]

Posted by Fred Steeves (here)
Bottom line, don't be afraid of saying a very calm, but direct "no" to the scanner. Or being unduly groped for that matter. Listen, I'm not a tough guy, or an overly brave man, but I've looked a TSA guy directly in the eye at the foot of the scanner, and said calmly: "I'm not going through that". They are people too, and can quickly sense your "presence", whether you are just being surly and full of bluster, or are most serious, and prepared to stand.

Very well said, and I agree. There's no need for all the histrionics, really. It will just be counterproductive anyway. Be calm, but firm. They may try to rattle you or provoke you, but you don't need to make a big scene. That's just playing their game. I was just watching a video of a talk given by David Icke and he had this to say at one point, which is line with what you said above:

“No more do we comply out of fear of not complying.
We stop complying but with a smile on our face and
a heart that’s open. Not in anger. Not in bitterness.
But in steely, 'We’re not having it.' So we hold our
vibration and don’t get pulled into theirs.”
- David Icke

[Dennis Leahy]

Two articles that are germane to the topic were sent to me by Selene (thanks, Selene!), and I'll post both of the links (and a blurb from each):

To absolutely no one's surprise, the mainstream media last week ignored a legitimate grassroots protest against the TSA's allegedly invasive full-body scanners.

Oh sure, there were whispers of National Opt-Out Week here and there. The trade publication Government Security News reported them, although it left readers with the impression that this action would fizzle. A lone op-ed in a New Jersey newspaper recognized the protest and supported it.

The TSA briefly acknowledged Opt-Out Week in a blog post that came across as both wooden and threatening. Wooden, in the sense that it described the opt-out options in almost clinical terms; and threatening in the sense that it implied passengers could be arrested for taking photos of the screening process ("While the TSA does not prohibit photographs at screening locations, local laws, state statutes or local ordinances may," it warned).

But most media outlets -- staffed by junior editors and wide-eyed interns during the American Thanksgiving week -- simply blew off Opt-Out Week.

Source: It's The Beginning Of The End For The TSA's Full-Body Scanners ( - a poorly titled article that is really about National Opt-out Week.)

Last month, the Transportation Security Administration said it was moving nearly half its X-ray body scanners from some of the nation's biggest airports to smaller ones. But it turns out that more than 90 of the controversial machines will sit in a Texas warehouse indefinitely, agency officials said Thursday.

The agency says it hopes to someday deploy the warehoused machines, but even that prospect was thrown into doubt by allegations that the manufacturer, Rapiscan Systems, may have falsified tests of its experimental privacy software designed to eliminate explicit images of passengers' bodies.

The machines in the warehouse cost about $14 million total, or roughly $150,000 each.

Source: TSA X-Ray Body Scanners Sit Idle in Warehouse

Dennis

[soleil]

i hate to say this...but im glad i have zero reasons to travel into the states anytime soon....

[Dennis Leahy]

There was an article about silly/outrageous items offered at Amazon.com. This one made the list:



Playmobil Security Check Point

(Source: http://www.amazon.com/PLAYMOBIL%C2%A...ity+checkpoint)

Some of the comments are pretty good:

"Most Helpful Customer Reviews
7,452 of 7,581 people found the following review helpful
3.0 out of 5 stars Great lesson for the kids! September 9, 2005
By loosenut
I was a little disappointed when I first bought this item, because the functionality is limited. My 5 year old son pointed out that the passenger's shoes cannot be removed. Then, we placed a deadly fingernail file underneath the passenger's scarf, and neither the detector doorway nor the security wand picked it up. My son said "that's the worst security ever!". But it turned out to be okay, because when the passenger got on the Playmobil B757 and tried to hijack it, she was mobbed by a couple of other heroic passengers, who only sustained minor injuries in the scuffle, which were treated at the Playmobil Hospital.

The best thing about this product is that it teaches kids about the realities of living in a high-surveillence society. My son said he wants the Playmobil Neighborhood Surveillence System set for Christmas. I've heard that the CC TV cameras on that thing are pretty worthless in terms of quality and motion detection, so I think I'll get him the Playmobil Abu-Gharib Interogation Set instead (it comes with a cute little memo from George Bush).

"

" 2,159 of 2,279 people found the following review helpful
Educational and Fun!, February 27, 2008
By
Zampano


= Durability: = Fun: = Educational:
This review is from: Playmobil Security Check Point (Toy)
Thank you Playmobil for allowing me to teach my 5-year old the importance of recognizing what a failing bureaucracy in a ever growing fascist state looks like. Sometimes it's a hard lesson for kids to learn because not all pigs carry billy clubs and wear body armor. I applaud the people who created this toy for finally being hip to our changing times. Little children need to be aware that not all smiling faces and uniforms are friendly. I noticed that my child is now more interested in current events. Just the other day he asked me why we had to forfeit so much of our liberties and personal freedoms and I had to answer "well, it's because the terrorists have already won". Yes, they have won.

I also highly recommend the Playmobil "farm fencing" so you can take your escorted airline passenger away and fence him behind bars as if he were in Guantanamo Bay."

" 15 of 16 people found the following review helpful
4.0 out of 5 stars Realistic but..., January 5, 2013
By
Rob Byrne - See all my reviews


This review is from: Playmobil Security Check Point (Toy)
The additional cost of the optional cavity search sigmoidoscopy made this an unrealistic purchase for the average 3rd grader. Otherwise, very realistic. "

" 35 of 36 people found the following review helpful
1.0 out of 5 stars Best Toy So Far For Brainwashing The Kiddos To Be......., December 19, 2012
By
H. Holmes "SuzieQ" (North Myrtle Beach, SC) - See all my reviews
(REAL NAME)


= Durability:1.0 out of 5 stars = Fun:1.0 out of 5 stars = Educational:1.0 out of 5 stars
This review is from: Playmobil Security Check Point (Toy)
This has got to be the best toy I've come across so far for brainwashing my little Cindy Lou into accepting and not questioning the "police state", now in full swing at an airport (and soon a shopping mall, sports arena, etc) near you.

This toy would be much more complete and satisfying if it came with a grandmother in a wheelchair, a woman with a prosthetic breast, a man with a colostomy bag, and a baby in diapers, all just frothing at the mouth to have their privacy breached by a loveable TSA agent.

The Constitution and Bill of Rights were so 200 years ago! Show us your "papers please" and let this toy show YOU (and your kids) how to give away all your rights while at the same time, strip you of any dignity you may possess. Americuh! Hell yeah! "

" 36 of 37 people found the following review helpful
2.0 out of 5 stars The government is also a toy factory, December 20, 2012
By
Xtian - See all my reviews


= Durability:4.0 out of 5 stars = Fun:5.0 out of 5 stars = Educational:1.0 out of 5 stars
This review is from: Playmobil Security Check Point (Toy)
Tyranny is now fun! This is a great way to indoctrinate your children into believing that giving up rights for "security" is a good thing. Clothing on passenger can't be removed, so it's not very realistic. Nor do the security figures have gloves on. Health hazard! But that's okay, you get microwaved in the x-ray scanner anyways. But you will notice that each figure is smiling brightly because they know they are now SAFE under the government's watch! Big Brother knows what's best for the people. "

Dennis

[Carmody]

IIRC, the stats show, that if you add in all dangers from all transport methods to the number each has 'moved' or shipped, that the odds of dying in a terrorist attack on a plane, or even any sort of danger from a plane, is something in the area of 10 billion to 1. Which is about a billion or more better odds of being safe than walking down the street in the city.

The simple conclusion, is that like searching the internet and violating all privacy for pedophiles, is that neither issue is even remotely real. Both are faked, as covers for other agendas.

IIRC, we'd need have about 100-300 planes (chock full of people) a year....fly into buildings, in order to get the level of danger where flying is comparable to the dangers of walking down the street.

If you look at the numbers, actually look at the numbers,and compare, this is what you find. No joke.

~~~~~~~~~~

it is suspected that is a issue of stability and control of indoctrination, in order to hold a pattern long enough to make it stick.

Auch things require a MINIMUM of a generation to take hold. As a child has to grow to enough of a condition that it knows no better and the adult.... must forget.

It's part of the issue of 'holding the line' on the lie of 9/11, to make sure it sticks.

Palestine has been going on since actually, before 1947. Yet it is a zero in much of the western world's understanding of what actually happened. We're up to over 60 years on that one, and it is NOT dissipated, and fallen into normalization and undisputed history, for those who are paying attention. Two wrongs make a right, in that one. tribal religions. **** me. You can have it.

Hopefully this sort of thing (human memory and rumination) is slowing the bastards down.

[Simonm]

The EU have decided to make these things unacceptable, on health grounds. AFAIK there were only two UK airports with these installed, Heathrow and Manchester. Last time we flew from Manchester I was selected, out of a dozen or so for the full body imaging scanner. I politely looked at this kid, who looked no more than 16 and told him I wanted to request a pat down instead. From his initial reaction I thought there was to be a problem, but no, he called for a supervisor and this chap came forward and took me over to the side of the other passengers.

The supervisor patiently and courteously patted me down, with good humour and let me go through to the rest of the passengers. Thankfully, these machines are now a thing of the past here in the UK. I would imagine that if the vast majority of the US citizens stopped acquiescing they would have no choice but to stop using these ridiculous machines.

[skyflower]

I am at the lax airport right now and have just passed through security. I opted out as I always do but this time I was challenged back with a question : "do you know what you are opting out of?" . I answered yes and the tsa guard told me " these are not X-ray machines anymore". Funny thing to me, they still looked like the same scanner machines we have been avoiding, so I politely told her that I would look into it but for now I would opt out. Could this be a new tactic to discourage opt outs?

It was disturbing to see virtually a packed security area full of people just sheepishly walking through those machines and not enough people opting out. Had half of those people opted out, the tsa would have been forced to turn on the metal detectors.

[Earth Angel]

yes or in comes a law making it illegal to opt out ?

Posted by PHARAOH (here)
I always opt out. I now have my wife and daughter doing the same. It's just that simple. All it takes is more people to catch on and away the machines go.

[Maunagarjana]

TSA Pulls Plug on Airport Nude Body Scanners

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/201...nude-scanners/