Your thoughts on free masons

[Rimbaud]

Posted by Ixopoborn (here)
I have had contact with many Freemasons. A notable freemason is a member of this forum, Rimbaud. There is little doubt that Rimbaud is caring and honest. This is my clear impression from the way he writes. I like people like Rimbaud.

I agree though that the current structure of freemasonry is wrong and is in need of reform. Systematically approved secrecy is, in general, unnecessary, harmful and bad.

Freemasonry at its best is populated by people like Rimbaud and Fred's father. Most freemasons having nothing close to their integrity and good behaviour.

I understand resistance to abandoning the vail of secrecy which distinguishes freemasonry. In my determined opinion, the secrecy aspect should be dumped as soon as possible or else Freemasony will be left without any worthwhile role or good thinking members in the future.

Sorry Rimbaud if this upsets you. I mean no upset. The so called 4th density existence that we are being drawn towards will have no place for secrecy. Freemasonry must decide to drop this aspect of it's culture if it wants to survive.

Not at all Ixopoborn...In fact I totally agree with you; the best way to remove fear and mistrust is to be completely open and honest. I'm working towards that as are many of the younger current or ex Grand Masters of the Fellow Craft. Believe me that we loathe being mistrusted and feared...It's a sign of the times I'm afraid and I'm sure that there are many ultra high ranking Masons reading these comments right now...I know most of them especially in the UK and France..it's hard if not impossible to convince the converted..but generally speaking they are good blokes.

Peace my friends

Rimbaud

[Rimbaud]

Posted by Lost Soul (here)
Concur. Anyone who is 32nd degree or lower is in ignorance of what happens at higher levels. These lesser masons are the front men who put a good face onto the face of masonry.

That rules me out then sadly :-(

[Strat]

I would advise just treating him as any other man. Simple as that. I've researched free masonry and I can see that the ceremonies are strange but whatever. The fact of the matter is I'll bet there is an extremely high probability that most free masons are regular people and aren't plotting to do you harm.

Just treat him as you would anyone else. If you feel threatened then stay away, as you would anyone else.

[Zook]

Posted by Strat (here)
I would advise just treating him as any other man. Simple as that. I've researched free masonry and I can see that the ceremonies are strange but whatever. The fact of the matter is I'll bet there is an extremely high probability that most free masons are regular people and aren't plotting to do you harm.

Just treat him as you would anyone else. If you feel threatened then stay away, as you would anyone else.

Better yet, find a building in your area that has the freely masonic symbol hovering over its front entrance, you know, gymnasium, auditorium, videtorium, velodrome, etc. In the dark of night and anywhere on the path leading to the masonic meeting mouth, dig a trench about yay wide, yay long, yay deep, and say "yee hah!!" loud enough so that no one can hear. Cover your newly excavated yay-cubed in volume cavity with a piece of canvass painted to look like a generic slab of sidewalk (you can usually find these on the walls of your local art gallery).

Go home. Kiss the wife. Catch up on some Project Avalon Forum articles. Bring the dog in; put the cat out (preferably in teh neighbor's yard); mix yourself a mug of hot chocolate. Kiss the wife. Trade your peepers for the pineal eye and watch the sheeple run the chase steeple.

When morning breaks, kiss the wife, make her breakfast, take a shower, put your hunting hat on, check the chambers in your rifle. Then open the back door and let your sound hound do the rest. If you trained his ears properly, he will lead you to the hole of squeals. Along the way, try and collect friends, colleagues, fellow municipalites, oh, and at least one Japanese tourist. There's always safety in numbers.

Make sure you take your cell phone with you. Remember, the rifle is just for intimidation. You'll need to call in the pest control people. They have the proper tools to handle wild and free trapped masons.

[Carrera]

Posted by Swami (here)
We must be getting CLOSE

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=MbvSemVgF28

I watched this, and what came to mind, was a good start, like now they are being revealed.... But in the end it seemed like almost propaganda FOR the masons. They were totally excused, and any who think otherwise, almost ridiculed. I'm sure most who start their "journey" as a Mason, in the lower degrees does so with good intentions. And some might all the way, but some look for more power and might become more corrupted. The power which they may have, the higher degree they have. This I say without any inside information, but there is much info out there that suggest otherwise. I dont think it's all conspiracy "theories", but facts.

This video show me an "last" attempt to defend themselves. The end of the video, makes me feel uncomfortable, as I feel the lies.

[sjkted]

Here's my take on freemasonry, and this is without the conspiracy parts of 33 degree and higher which have merit, but are not needed for an understanding. My take is not to hate the player but to hate the game. For example, doctors, politicians, and policemen are players in a corrupt system, but that doesn't mean that all of them are bad people.

Here's my gripe with freemasonry as a whole. Some basic public facts are that freemasonry is an international organization, has a large membership of people who work in high-level leadership positions such as police chiefs, judges, firemen, politicians, and lawyers. These people are meant to serve as the guardians of our legal and justice system.

We know that freemasons have special signs to identify each other and they agree as part of their basic oath to not convict a fellow freemason. So, what happens when a freemason (especially a high-ranking one) commits a crime.

First, he should be arrested. Then, he should be taken to jail and charged with a crime. Then, he should be prosecuted by the district attorney. Then, he should be judged by a judge and possibly a jury.

Normally, justice works in these scenarios, with the exception of high profile people like O.J. who can buy their way out with public opinion and the best legal team money can buy.

But, most of these high-level public positions are held by freemasons. If a freemason was arrested, the police chief could arrange to drop the charges. Or, if he was charged, the district attorney could choose not to prosecute or put up a poor case that would be easily knocked down by an A-level legal team. Or, the judge could decide not to prosecute a fellow freemason. When you look at how many of these people publicly admit to being freemasons, it's not a theoretical consideration.

So, you have people who have taking conflicting oaths: to protect the country, the constitution, the honor of their office, etc. And they have also vowed to protect fellow freemasons.

One could ask which one they choose to honor, but the results are quite obvious based on the world events and massive covert corruption that exists. If these people chose to honor the oath to their office, heads would be rolling and the corruption would be removed.

In conclusion, freemasonry creates a super-sovereign organization that is not under the jurisdiction of any laws. And it's top-level members are exempt for any prosecution for the crimes they frequently commit. How could anyone see this as being a good thing?

--sjkted

[rgray222]

Free Mason's, Iluminati, Builderberger or any other name you want to call them it is up to us to force change, change is not put upon us by others it is accepted by us when we do not question! Question all and bring it into the light. Do not think others manipulate or control us!

THE URGENT NEED FOR DISCLOSURE
Can you only imagine if we had the following:

Consider: A technology which enables energy generation from the so-called zero point field and which enables every home, business, factory and vehicle to have its own source of power -without an external fuel source. Ever. No need for oil, gas, coal, nuclear plants or the internal combustion engine. And no pollution. Period.

Consider: A technology using electro-gravitic (magnetic) devices which allows for above surface transportation - no more roadways to cover fertile farmland since transportation could take place totally above the surface.

Now you will probably find this hard to believe but we have had this type of technology since the 50's.
But in the 1950s, oil was plentiful, nobody worried too much about pollution, global warming was not the faintest concern and the powers that be just wanted stability . The status quo. And besides, why risk the tectonic changes related to such a disclosure? Let a later generation take care of it. Well that generation is now here, problems on our planet are immense and getting larger everyday! Disclosure is almost central to the continued existence of mankind!

Covert reverse-engineering projects have resulted in huge quantum leaps forward in technologies which, once applied to military systems, could be a real threat to ET s which may be here peacefully. The attempts to rapidly militarize space is likely a result of a myopic, militaristic and paranoid view of extraterrestrial projects and intentions. If left unchecked, it can only result in catastrophe.

Indeed this group, no matter how well-intentioned, is in urgent need of exposure so that global statesmen with a new perspective can intercede in this situation. While there no evidence that the ET civilizations are at all hostile, it is also clear that it is unlikely that they will allow unfettered and growing interference with their operations. Self-defense is likely a universal quality. And while tremendous restraint has been shown by the ET s thus far, might there be a ‘cosmic trip wire' if human covert technologies begin to reach parity and we are using such advanced technologies in a bellicose fashion? The prospect is sobering.

We need our International Statesmen involved with so vast a problem. But if access is denied -and the subject remains undisclosed and off the global radar screen - we are left with the unelected few to decide our fate and act on our behalf. This must change, and soon.

In the final analysis, while the changes attendant such a disclosure related to UFOs and ET s would be massive and profoundly impact virtually every aspect of life on earth, it is still the right thing to do. Secrecy has taken on a life of its own - it is a growing cancer which needs to be cured before it destroys the life of earth and all who dwell on her.

The reasons for secrecy are clear: global power, economic and technological control, geo-political status quo, the fear of scandal surrounding the exposure of such projects and their behavior and so forth.In the early days the need for secrecy are almost understandable but 60 years later the need for disclosure far outstrips the need for secrecy!

But the one thing more dangerous than disclosure is continued secrecy. The promising relationship between humanity and people from other planets is being militarized and strained by failed thinking and failed programs run completely in secret. Even those that currently hold this technology in secret are beginning to see the light. Power means nothing if you are not here to wield it! In my previous post you see that I have attempted to layout how the disclosure has already started, but now it needs to start bubbling to the surface at a much more rapid pace.

The vast majority of the power economic, political and otherwise is with America, Western Europe and Japan but that only represents a little over 10% of the population of Planet Earth so the powers that be are scared to death of putting all peoples on this globe on an equal footing. This is immoral, unethical and wrong on so many levels that it must change and it must change now!

As daunting as disclosure may be, with all its potential for short-term instability and change, continued secrecy means that we will destroy the earth through our folly and greed. The future of humanity, which has been delayed and hijacked for the past 50 years, cannot be hijacked for 50 more. For we do not have 50 more years - the earth's ecosystem will collapse before then.
http://www.educatinghumanity.com

[noxon medem]

- guess it is okay, if they are realy free.

[Rimbaud]

Posted by zookumar (here)
Better yet, find a building in your area that has the freely masonic symbol hovering over its front entrance, you know, gymnasium, auditorium, videtorium, velodrome, etc. In the dark of night and anywhere on the path leading to the masonic meeting mouth, dig a trench about yay wide, yay long, yay deep, and say "yee hah!!" loud enough so that no one can hear. Cover your newly excavated yay-cubed in volume cavity with a piece of canvass painted to look like a generic slab of sidewalk (you can usually find these on the walls of your local art gallery).

Go home. Kiss the wife. Catch up on some Project Avalon Forum articles. Bring the dog in; put the cat out (preferably in teh neighbor's yard); mix yourself a mug of hot chocolate. Kiss the wife. Trade your peepers for the pineal eye and watch the sheeple run the chase steeple.

When morning breaks, kiss the wife, make her breakfast, take a shower, put your hunting hat on, check the chambers in your rifle. Then open the back door and let your sound hound do the rest. If you trained his ears properly, he will lead you to the hole of squeals. Along the way, try and collect friends, colleagues, fellow municipalites, oh, and at least one Japanese tourist. There's always safety in numbers.

Make sure you take your cell phone with you. Remember, the rifle is just for intimidation. You'll need to call in the pest control people. They have the proper tools to handle wild and free trapped masons.

Thank you for your comments,

Oh boy..what more can I say? I'm at a complete loss as to comment further..I'm sorry not to have assisted your research Zookumar

Rimbaud

[Zook]

Bonjour Rimbaud,

Posted by Rimbaud (here)
Thank you for your comments,
Oh boy..what more can I say? I'm at a complete loss as to comment further..I'm sorry not to have assisted your research Zookumar
Rimbaud

I was having a little fun at the expense of the freemasons, true. Nothing of significance was directed at the lower masons; though I won't pretend that nothing was directed. I realize that most masons join simply for brotherhood; but would we have the same ho-hum reaction to those similarly connected with, say, the mafia; you know, low end mafioso and/or sympathizers and/or associates? I think not. So what gives freemasons of any degree, a free pass from external judgment? I guess that's more or less my perspective. Of course, this is more than an intellectual exercise for me; after all, the symbolism (and influence) of freemasonry is ubiquitous in our society; and very little of it is positive, IMHO.

Mind you, perhaps it's me who needs a lesson in tolerance. Then again, perhaps it's me who's asking the hard questions, e.g. why do the lower masons stand around and do virtually nothing when confronted with the crimes of the upper masons? Is it a club of brothers in free association? Or a kennel with top-down obedience?

From what I have read, I'm just not sure this world is made better by freemasonry or any of its invidious institutions. Nor am I sold on the proposition that men enter into their own subjugation freely (unless for perverse reasons, e.g. dominatrix). My best guess is that freemasonry is just another form of the pyramid power structure (which uses many forms to control men).

If I'm wrong, I'll have learned something and you'll have taught me. And that's always a plus. So, please, Rimbaud, I welcome your own thoughts on freemasonry. Btw, I, like yourself, speak frankly. So please don't be offended by anything I write. If I sometimes sound offensive, it is from a point of abject ignorance; not from a point of intention.

[East Sun]

Secret societies are by their nature Prejudiced and have their agenda which rules out others. Masons have a history of being prejudiced, which is a selfish manipulating process in itself.
I was invited to check out the masons but refused. Don't like groups who have hierarchies and levels.
Be free as much as possible as an individual is my motto.

[tazjet]

Posted by Moemers (here)
I think that no one can do anything to you unless you step out of love.

This is the quinessential reply. In life there are only two primal motivations. Love or fear. Whatever is positive and worthwhile is founded in Love, hope, optimism.

Whatever is negative is founded in Fear, like hate, anger, jealousy etc.

Where any organisation whatever spiritual objectives it aspires to, uses secrecy and initiations to grade and exclude others from knowledge of it's teachings you can only conclude that there is something based in fear or manipulation.

Religion of any type often becomes manipulated by an inner priesthood who seek power and control over others. that is not to say that those who join a movement are themselves sinister people. Indeed people who join any religious following are usually seekers looking for answers, but they are also vulnerable to suggestion.

Sadly many people subscribe to religious followings not in a quest for something wholesome, but rather so they can belong to a following.

I give organised religion a wide berth.

[Rimbaud]

Posted by zookumar (here)
Hi Humble J,



Well, I've read enough about 'em to make a judgment.

I'd like to lock 'em up ; throw away the key; give 'em a cookie 'n a cup of water on a daily basis, each.

I'm just sayin'.

I refuse to allow you to pick a fight with me however much you want to do so. I can only comment that your views ; whilst being pertinent to this discussion, are deeply flawed and lack the base of knowledge that you purport to espouse within these pages. I suggest that if you want to enter a real discussion over an issue that obviously disturbs you; then do so in the correct manner. For example..post another thread?

Rimbaud

[Rimbaud]

Sorry, the above comments were directed towards Zookumar..not anyone else

Rimbaud

[MargueriteBee]

My dad is a 32 degree Mason and he doesn't know jack about spirituality.

[Celine]

LoL Ms Bee

That is not surprising...My opinion is that the spin about Masons, is way over exagerated.

[Lita]

Every male in my family except the youngest 1's were masons, don't know how far up my father went as I was never allowed to know anything .

My brother on the other hand he was the head of his lodge, he didn't say much either. he died suddenly a few years back, even though I don't know much when he died he belonged to the blue lodge.. that is normal I think.. but somebody from England had spoken to him about the Red lodge.. now I have o idea the levels..of when the blue and red belong, somebody here might be able to tell me...
When my brother died other family members wanted to grad all of his mason stuff.. my niece hid it so they didn't get it... but I haven't seen what there was..

I did hear that masons looked after family, well mine never did. ..self absorbed..

Lita

[FrankoL]

Due to my principles and personal character I am not a subject to any kind of organization. My opinion is that I should think for myself and for my reality. Group thinking it doesn’t help you and you are always “inside the box”, so to speak.

On the other hand, as I am very curious, I would love to be a part of freemasons. Just to see what is all that fuss about.

[Zook]

Bonjour Rimbaud,

Posted by Rimbaud (here)
I refuse to allow you to pick a fight with me however much you want to do so. I can only comment that your views ; whilst being pertinent to this discussion, are deeply flawed and lack the base of knowledge that you purport to espouse within these pages. I suggest that if you want to enter a real discussion over an issue that obviously disturbs you; then do so in the correct manner. For example..post another thread?
Rimbaud

Well ... what is there to say?

On October 3, in message #19, I wrote humorously, or so I thought, my piece about locking freemasons up and throwing away the key. Yeah, as if that is really practical or is what I spend my free time thinking about. Lock freemasons! Lock freemasons! Lock freemasons! Now, I'm no Mark Twain (tho' not from a lack of trying), but I hardly think that a simple crack like that warranted anythinmg serious in return.

So, Rimbaud, when you posted a very defensive message #29 a full week later on Oct. 10, after another failed attempt on my part at freemason satire (seems like the freemasons are not setup for satire), I quickly replied with message #30 to mollify your concerns and/or those of any other mason out there that may have been offended by my frank perspective. I even invited you to educate me about how incredibly wrong my perspective was.

So what was your first reply after my somewhat muted message #30? To seize the invitation and educate me? Hardly. You went all the way back to Oct. 3; took offense at my satire there; and proceeded to get rightly offended by said satire. You'll forgive me if I don't see equivalence between polite communication of knowledge and impolite communication of one's displeasure. You've now had several opportunities to impart your knowledge of freemasonry here in this thread. The thread practically begs for thoughts on free masons. So why this strange request for a separate thread? If I was in a less diplomatic mood, I would say that you weren't interested in a discussion of freemasonry. You sure haven't supplied any thoughts on freemasonry worthy of educating a putative ignoramus like myself. Just insinuation about my manners.

Almost a continuation of our very first encounter (e.g. the thread titled "Clarity in the terms Jew, Zionist, Judaism, Zionism"; messages #23, #24, #25). A thread where (a) you attempted to discuss the relationship between Jews and Arabs; (b) I attempted to steer you back to the topic at hand, e.g. clarity of terms; (c) you took great umbrage and tried to frame my request for topical integrity as an unreasonable abridgment of your freedom of speech. Yet we found harmony - or so I thought - soon afterward. You then took the opportunity to inquire about my opinion of the Macedonian impact on Greece. I replied that I was ignorant of the regional history but that if you wanted to discuss something specific, that you should take the lead and table your own opinion. And altho' I valued your interest enough to spend a whole night reading up on Macedonia-Greece (and I thank you for that, for now I know a lot more about that regional history); you did not likewise value my request enough to pose a proper starting discussion point on Macedonia-Greece.

Nothing from you on freemasonry.
Nothing from you on the clarity of terms Judaism, Zionism, etc.
Nothing from you on Macedonia-Greece.

Where I come from, you get three strikes before you're called out.

But I'm gonna bend the rules a bit in the interest of maintaining group harmony. I am willing to discuss any of those three things, even now, with you. But you have to allow me the full breadth of satire. I'm a very satirical person. I'm sure we can exchange great knowledge and wisdom if we don't take offense at the first opportunity, and save it, instead, for a last resort.

So let's [ctrl-alt-del] this cluttered cul-de-sac of negative emotions and reboot to a better friendship.

[Ixopoborn]

Posted by zookumar (here)
Hi Humble J,



Well, I've read enough about 'em to make a judgment.

I'd like to lock 'em up ; throw away the key; give 'em a cookie 'n a cup of water on a daily basis, each.

I'm just sayin'.

Dear Zooumar - I think your remedy is a little harsh to say the least given comments on this thread which establishes that such action would involve incarceration of many good people. The truth is not something so easily assessed and judged upon. There are some excellent aspects to freemasonry and some rather doubtful ones. Unfortunately, the jury is out on what corruption lies at the top or else there would be nothing to debate on this thread.

I have read and heard rumours of despicable corruption in parts of freemasonry whilst I know for a fact that the vast majority of freemasons are completely unaware of this.

The question I personally am no where near answering is whether the many good souls who are also freemasons have been morally hijacked in some way by the alleged despicable few? That there are many thousands of freemasons who are very good souls, I have no doubt at all.

In life, I like to see structures which are safe by design. Personally, I think freemasonry has a design flaw in its secrecy aspect. Unfortunately, secrecy facilitates corruption. Dedicated freemasons will tell you of the secrets having no commercial value at all and not knowing them until you reach certain stages emphasises the moral lessons imparted at each stage. This, I accept. However, the secrecy aspect is, in my opinion, the Achilles heel of freemasonry.

I say remove it and make secrecy a voluntary act for freemasons – allow freemasons to decide which parts of the ritual they keep secret from themselves but make it all publically available to those who have no interest in taking the moral journey through Masonic ritual. That might be an acceptable compromise for freemasons, freemasonry and society at large.

Rimbaud, who posts on this thread, is a freemason. I like Rimbaud and things for which he stands. Does that, Zookumar, mean that I am guilty by association and should also be locked up?