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Thread: The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs

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    Default Re: The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs

    Interesting. chocolate doesn't want to discuss It, and Stan apparently says it's impossible, or at best misleading, to discuss It or describe It, beyond saying things like: "It can't be labelled." By the way, I've definitely been to that place too. Because Stan started this off by asking for comments, I'm presuming to take the liberty to offer my own further comments anyway.

    Firstly, I've been visited by many dead individuals within one day, our time, of their death. All of them had gone through experiencing that stripping away or seeming dissolution virtually into nothing -- which I would actually call true detachment and letting go --, and true dropping of one's identities. I believe that certainly Stan, and at least to a great degree chocolate, has "let go" much, much more fully than most individuals do immediately following their physical death. Yes, there is a real "stripping away" of all that you thought you were, like the ground continually being mowed away beneath your feet. And that process lasts for up to three days our time. But as I say, after physical death most individuals are feeling just great before the first day of it is over -- even though it does include the experience that it seems one is almost completely being rubbed out -- and yet that's fine, somehow.

    In this thread I've mentioned how a (I think) very small percentage of individuals go through this process and still somehow manage to cling to most of their emotional body (i.e. their astral body) and keep hold of it until their next reincarnation -- which is usually disastrous but I guess they'll eventually learn not to do that. Similarly, many individuals manage to somehow retain much of their "personality", i.e. their mental body, even though it certainly feels initially as though one has been virtually rubbed out.

    The first time I experienced It was just after I turned sixteen. Having gome through psychological death and the ego's utter horror (at being partly dissolved by that experience!), guess what I experienced? I found, with greater certainty and vividness than anything I'd ever experienced before, that the Nothing was actually Everything. And that Everything was amazingly intelligent and alive and so on, and it was ever so blissful just to look at/be the Everything. And what's more, the true I was It. I was Everything. From that time on, I always experience the great Nothing as either great peace (that passes understanding), or as something that brings bliss. Usually both.

    Later, when I was sixteen, I would have experiences of what is known as nirvana. Let me explain that nirvana is actually the second lowest level of enlightenment. Whenever one is in that state, the thing that keeps grabbing one's attention is that all names are just totally inadequate labels, that words are so inadequate, that reality can't be grasped through any act of grasping such as the (attempted) use of names, for anything. Hmm, sounds a bit like what Stan is saying -- except that for me, this state is always blissful, in spite of always being full of a kind of randomness and openness that seems "crazy".

    So, as I've conceded already, words are rather feeble and limited things in the face of the reality you've been mentioning, Stan. However, as we currently are, we aren't living in that total and utter Oneness, or in The-Unknowable-Beyond-All-Names. And the physical world we are actually living in certainly is a world that demands that we quite frequently must use words (or concepts, or pictures or signs or symbols). (I'll have to write another post soon that goes into this in much more detail.)

    Because of this fact, for me (when I'm not immersed in a nirvana or similar state etc) there is great value in pointing towards the Unknowable through words, etc, because the more fully we can begin to connect to That in the everyday activities of our life, or to its slightest shadow or its fragrance, the freer we will be of suffering and so on. If you like, you can take the Zen Oxherding Pictures. Picture Eight is about achieving the experience/being of That. But this is only stage eight, it's not the ultimate, not while we're in this or any other lesser world. Pictures Nine and Ten refer to stages beyond, and superior to, just resting in That.

    I might also mention that words point to meanings, and the meanings they point to continue to exist far beyond the conceptual level and in essence exist even, I would argue, at the Unknowability level.

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    Default Re: The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs

    Well put TH! You have described everything so well here. For sure, we must try to describe things with words which do indeed lead to a greater understanding. I don't know if I explained before, but the experience of achieving this void through meditation is most definitely a pleasant experience compared to a sudden switching off of all sensory perceptions. I don't think I have experienced this sudden blackout for more than a second as my roaring out loud is a welcoming sound to my ears. At least I know I am still alive. Please don't get me wrong TH, your words of wisdom are not wasted on me I can assure you. When I have time I will read all your other posts in this thread. Just letting you know you are greatly appreciated.

    Stan
    If you don't follow your spirit without hesitation, you end up following your hesitation without spirit.

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    Default Re: The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs

    In one sense the total Universe, or Source, is quite unknowable to us, because how can a symbol or word or expression, or a loving or blissful regard, faithfully capture absolutely all there is? It's like trying to catch the ocean in a bucket.

    On the other hand, it's possible to exaggerate the unknowableness of Source and of the totality of all there is. We do learn to know what is unknowable to thought. We do this through our highest moments of consciousness. Amazing, but true.

    It's also possible to lovingly apply pure reason and come to certain conclusions about what must be true and what not true regarding Source. I don't mind doing this, because for me it's a little like being happily fascinated with even the tiny details of one's romantic partner. For instance:

    However much we strive to grasp the Unknowable fully, even through our consciousness, the All always slips through our fingers. But the reason why this happens is that the Ultimate is the most vast and profound reality there is, and each time we reach out, our failure to reach it fully is precisely what guides us ever deeper, ever fuller each time. This is one of the major reasons why meditation keeps taking us further, higher, deeper. To put that another way, the way we go further and higher and deeper is through knowing the Oneness ever more fully, step by step.

    Because Source contains everything else within It, for It there is no such thing as not-Source. It can't be opposed by something or some being outside Itself, because nothing like that exists. Equally, it cannot be the case that Source submits unwillingly to some hostile force within Itself which is stronger than It, because that would imply that something outside of Source exists. Because Source has no opposition at all, It has remarkable freedom, and mind-blowing fecundness or ability to endlessly actualize the most diverse possibilities. And all of this benevolently, because everything that Source does is automatically good. That's because there's no "more-good" to oppose Its actions against, ever.

    Also, everything that is willed anywhere in the Multiverse has ultimately been willed by and through Source, which nonjudgmentally tolerates all things and yet ceaselessly works to improve the Multiverse in the best possible ways that current circumstances allow. It's only our limited consciousness that seeks to create some principle or being that we call the Devil, or maybe Entropy and Chaos, supposedly outside of and in opposition to Source. And that's because we fail to understand Source's full long-term purposes, which involve making use even of evil and pain.

    The world as we know it is not just a dream in Source's mind. For if it were just a dream, there's nothing unreal about that Dreamer, and even the physical world is ultimately made out of the highest Divine Light, if we could only pierce the veils that hide this fact from our view.

    One of the paradoxes here is that ignorance -- estrangement from knowledge of the Oneness -- enables us to appreciate and understand Oneness ever so much more fully, by contrast. This is why we must have the patience and humility to accept the not-Oneness, the world of ignorance and imperfection, rather than cursing it and seeking to escape from it into pure Oneness without the manyness, the relative, the ignorance. Pure Oneness Itself doesn't somehow stand totally separate like that, it doesn't wipe out and hasn't wiped out and won't wipe out the world of ignorance.
    Above all, always refuse to cut your life in two: nonduality/duality, matter/Spirit, etc
    A mind which is not crippled by memory has real freedom. ~ J. Krishnamurti
    (True, deep) stillness is the way.

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    Default Re: The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs

    TH, who could argue with that? Well spoken Sir.

    Stan
    If you don't follow your spirit without hesitation, you end up following your hesitation without spirit.

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    Default Re: The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs

    Quote Posted by aranuk (here)
    Perhaps it's these little scalawags the elemental beings having a bit of fun at my expense. This happened about 16 years ago and apparently was the work of a friend of mines apprentice guide or something. That is another story.

    Stan
    Are you saying the elementals were a nuisance, Stan?

    Or are you saying that elementals virtually taught you, or greatly helped you, to have your initial experience of It? In my case, that was true, although it sounds like you found they misled you. For me, elementals were the best meditation teachers I have ever encountered. I don't normally go out of my way to communicate with them, but whenever anyone is in a place of natural beauty and just being present and open to enjoying the beauty and peace there, they are communicating with that person on some level.

    In my experience they are benevolent beings. They are certainly innocent and pure in many ways, and they love to be helpful -- at least as long as you don't let off lots of toxic energies in their presence. They are primarily concerned with trying to keep the environment alive and working optimally. Some people say they can be mischievous. The only mischief I've encountered was some years ago when I was completing an extra university degree. Some elementals would make my printer not work when I would try to print an essay that I hadn't put an adequate level of work into. Later the printer would be working fine again. Also, I found that I could demand out loud that any elementals who were making my printer not work had to cease doing so immediately, and my printer would start working again. I know it sounds crazy or like a fairytale, but that's exactly how it happened.

    In one of his recent interviews, Simon Parkes asserted that a "Tinker Bell" is a type of djinn. Unfortunately, my understanding is he was mistaken on that point. The "Tinker Bell"s are the most junior of the fire nature-spirits. They look exactly like you've seen in the movies or cartoons, and they're maybe two inches tall. And they do have a strong yellow glow around them -- which could get them mistaken for a djinn, although the latter are a quite different race of beings. I suspect that some black magicians or mind-controllers have found a way to somehow trap a Tinker Bell inside a human's mind or consciousness or whatever. The nature spirit would then be imprisoned there, and naturally would try to break through the prison's walls and also protest very loudly until let out again. It's great that Simon knows how to release a Tinker Bell from such a cruel trap. But the elementals don't have the ego like humans or djinns do.

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    Default Re: The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs

    The elementals are described in great detail in one of Rudolf Steiner's lectures. From my memory they are either of water, air, earth and fire. The Elementals are tied to a particular Element. Fairies, Pixies, Elves, Gnomes, Crystal Beings, Stone Beings, Wood Nymphs and Brownies are associated with the Earth Element. Sprites, Mermaids, Mermen and Undines are associated with the Water Element. Salamanders are associated with Fire as are Dragons but Dragons are linked with all the Elements. Sylphs, Sylphons, Spirulites and Imps are associated with the Air Element. They all work in harmony to keep Mother Earth (Gaia) and her male counter part Geb in balance. I found that on the web. Not from my memory might I add. Steiner spoke of some kind that really get excited when someone tells a lie. So it would not be hard to imagine that people who lie all the time must have hoards of these elementals following them around encouraging them I suspect to keep on with the show.


    Stan
    Last edited by aranuk; 12th October 2014 at 13:14.
    If you don't follow your spirit without hesitation, you end up following your hesitation without spirit.

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    Default Re: The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs

    One observant member has raised the question of what's involved in achieving freedom from suffering.What is the essence? She felt that for her it must primarily involve the releasing of all her stuck emotions, and the overcoming of the influence of all her past emotional traumas.

    Yes, I agree it's usually necessary for us to go through the equivalent of a number of full-time person-years working in a disciplined way on overcoming our individual emotional blocks. I certainly did so. The way I see it, though, our current civilization and culture facilitates the overcoming of many mental blocks though subjecting us to to years of full-time education, and then there are also things like this Forum. But our civilization ever so hugely underemphasizes disciplined work on the emotions. The late Barry Long used to have a (step)son whom he taught self-watching even from childhood. Any time that boy displayed some serious unhappiness, Barry would sit down with him and insist that the boy identified exactly what it was that was causing him to be unhappy, and then faced it head-on right away. This, ideally, is what we should all have grown up doing.

    I've frequently mentioned the need for continual self-watching and for deep self-knowledge. As I understand it, it lies at the heart of how one works on one's emotional blocks. There are many different variants of how to do this, and at different levels too. All forms of psychotherapy and counselling, including working constructively on one's shadow, as well as the fruits of meditation applied to daily life, are based on self-watching of some kind. But to achieve big results, and also initially, I believe it's necessary to do this in a very disciplined and very honest way.

    I would suggest there are a few different "levels" or "layers" of suffering. One noticeable feature is that one's attitude to suffering changes greatly the higher the "level". The higher ones goes, the more one welcomes suffering, not in any masochistic way but on reaching a certain "level" one reognizes that whatever suffering may remain is a means by which the Divine is teaching one to evolve in the quickest and optimal way. The truth is, absolutely every experience and every outer contact with the world around us, however trifling or however disastrous or humiliating or unpleasant, is used by the Divine for the work of evolving us further.

    I'd also suggest that freedom from suffering is the same as freedom from desire, from wanting. I don't mean that one stops wanting necessities, such as nutritious food and proper shelter, for instance.

    Freedom from higher or finer levels of suffering has to do with the freedom to surrender to the Divine Will -- which is actually a very proactive thing to do.

    I've often talked not only of the emotions and the mind but also of the will and the intuition. Once one has largely ahieved freedom from suffering at the emotional and mental level, the next level is to learn to live by one's very own (soul's/HM's) inner guidance. This inner guidance is often veiled at first because of the ego’s preoccupation with itself and its aims and outlook. But as we progress further, with greater clarity we come to realize that many of our falls and ordeals and unpleasant jobs and difficult people in our lives were actually heaven-sent, so to speak, to teach us how to grow stronger.

    At times we will be aware of two states of our consciousness,or else of one alternating with the other. These are two halves of us, an upper and a lower or, if you like, an inner and an outer half. This separation is very useful, because it enables us to more and more take the position of a detached observer in relation to the lower world, the world of ignorance and our ego. In this way we can break free more fully from being trapped in that world. In that world, but not of it.

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    Default Re: The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs

    A member has asked me for some comments about "dark energies" and how one may deal with them. Before I talk about psychic attack, though, I'd like to say something about the role of sunlight in helping to overcome "dark moods". I'm including that because that member mentioned that the winter has been particularly gloomy and cloudy in his country this year, and he felt this had made the impact of "dark energies" on him worse.

    I understand there is reliable data to suggest that the majority of individuals in Western countries today don't get enough sunlight each day. This greatly hinders the pituitary gland's workings, because for that gland sunlight is like food, and "dark moods" are often the result, since the pituitary controls the entire body biochemically. I understand the minimum time one needs sunlight per day is close to an hour on sunny days, and about double that on cloudy days -- though on darkish cloudy days that won't be enough either. It's perfectly OK to be in the shade as long as one is outdoors. It's also vital not to be wearing any spectacles or contact lenses during that period, as most of the sunlight is absorbed via the eyes. Sunlight is also necessary to activate the vitamin D3 you have hopefully been taking.

    I guess that if one can progress spiritually to a certain "level", one could then be constantly healing, and detached from, an unhealthy body's condition and the "dark" moods that brings. But that still might not be enough to get the pituitary undepressed.

    Moving now to the subject of psychic attacks. The primary strategy I prefer for dealing with psychic attacks generally, is a variety of what I call "psychic judo". Let me try and explain how this works. I used to have a teacher who would say: "If someone is trying to hand you a lighted bomb, what you do is say: 'No, thanks', and simply hand it back to them. Now they are left holding a bomb that will probably explode on them or at least one that they will have to deconstruct in a hurry to avoid having it explode on them."

    I should explain that you may well do such a "return to sender" to such a person without consciously knowing it nor even intending it. Many things can serve quite well to "hand the bomb back", particularly if you have developed your psychic skills a little -- which meditation will automatically do to some degree. If you can manage to truly view the would-be attacker in a genuinely detached way -- which, paradoxically, would include some caring about them --, that will do the trick, automatically.

    Also, if you truly, honestly know that you don't deserve the attack, that consciousness may well serve to "reflect" the attack energies all back to the sender.

    This is primarily an awareness "game". The one with the greater awareness, or consciousness, generally "wins", at least in terms of not feeling suffering. But what if the attacker basically overall has a higher or more developed consciousness than yours? You can still undo the effects of the attack by spending sufficient time and attention on them. For instance, you could spend at least several minutes every day, possibly for months, healing yourself specifically of any effects that attack has had on you or your life. This will also energetically affect the attacker in the long run, so that they begin to take responsibility for what they did.

    This "return to sender" works to some degree in proportion to how detached you are from your ego. You can accurately tell how detached you are as follows. The more you take things personally and get "personally hurt" by whatever, to that degree you haven't detached from, or properly downplayed, your ego yet. Your ego is also the part of you that gets excited, as distinct from genuinely inspired. But even though you may be (and hopefully are or are well on the way to be) properly detached from the ego, you still also have a body-consciousness, which it's certainly much more difficult to achieve full detachment from, though we should all work on achieving that too. The body-consciousness is much less evolved than we are, and the ego clings to it and tries to mimic it. Unless we are totally detached from the body-consciousness, even if we are detached from the ego, the body-consciousness will still suffer all the stresses of life and the body's functioning may be compromised as a result, as well as being more prone to diseases or health problems generally.

    As I understand it, there is also a subtler level of attachment than that of the ego or the body-consciousness. A major way this manifests is through cording -- although cording also usually involves some ego as well. Cording has already been discussed, mainly near the beginning of this thread. As far as I know, in most cases the dark Forces -- the demonic beings -- are only able to affect you indirectly, and always via people or institutions or activities to which you are corded. Even in the case of someone like Omniverse, he says that the reasons why he is being targeted have to do with connections -- I would say cords -- from previous lifetimes. And yes, most people do carry over some cords from other lifetimes.

    Another thing you will be corded to is your shadow self. The trouble with any shadow part of yourself is, you don't know it's part of you -- until you do. You may wrongly at first jump to the conclusion that it's some external Force or person sabotaging you. Also, the ego itself has a certain level of consciousness and is therefore a living, live thing, which again may at times be acting contrary to your will -- again as if it were someone external to you.
    Last edited by TraineeHuman; 18th October 2014 at 22:15.

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    Default Re: The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs

    TraineeHuman, thank you for this post.
    One note from someone who underwent an attack quite recently.

    Before entering this forum I felt quite differently, in general, having had some sort of a 'peaceful', but not necessarily a 'happy' life, being at ease with myself. I am also quite aware of my body and the way it functions ( which is probably also a weakness, if the attack is 'addressed' properly ).
    It changed after being here for a while. I am not saying that anyone from the forum is responsible for what had happened to me, but I am also not dismissing this possibility. I'll leave this open for now.

    I came to the conclusion that it was an indirect attack, as you have described it, months after I am into a recovery of sorts. And it was/is really well crafted, I have to say. Only those who have been through something like that will understand what I mean.

    It has to do a bit with health problems, and with lack of sunlight, too. The way you have written it above sounds sound.
    It also has to do with cording, I agree.

    One small side note: The higher the consciousness, the less the possibility for that consciousness to attempt an attack, I would say, if that is to be called a true one ( consciousness ). But as one de-activated friend would say, some use their powers for personal gain, and in the wrong way.

    [ No wonder that person was deactivated from the forum, together with another one months before. It seems some of us who have become all to aware of what is going on, get our wings cut off from flying around.
    I wouldn't be surprised if I get de-activated very soon. ]

    In any case I had help, from friends -- I have being initiated in Reiki, and having attended tai-Chi classes for a while, so those people did help.
    I will never know the extend of help I have received in total, and who (many probably) exactly helped me, but I am aware that there was, and has been, and still is, an attempt to rain darkness on my head.
    If it weren't for those who helped me, I would say I may have been lost in many ways, physically, and 'spiritually'.
    I am with several kilos less after half of an year, having in mind that I am in nature slim... , with a bit of scars here and there ( invisible ones ), and with some very bad taste in my ~mind~.

    One very useful tip, though, while browsing this forum. Energy never lies, regardless of your beliefs about that.
    So, if one notices heaviness and discomfort reading someone's posts, or if the posts are done in an obvious colorful way, using complex expression and the like tools of the trade, which is a way to hook your consciousness to the one of the writer of the post,
    I would advice to
    NOT READ those posts,
    and to avoid reading anything written from that member.
    It works.

    It also works to stop visiting the forum, until some members (on different levels) stop being active, technically, or by their own choice.
    This is a brave statement, so I am to expect some sort of consequences.
    I simply don't care anymore. The truth needs to come out. But don't expect me to start pointing to people using names, that I will never do.

    PS. If you do not know how to properly 'meditate' it is best not to do so, regardless of all friendly advises here.

    PS2. I had read some time ago that the attack usually comes from someone who needs your help, and that is how your attention is attracted.
    That, I had to realize, is also quite true.

    PS3. Every attack has an effect both on you and on your attacker. So if one suffers from a lot of those, probably the person needs to rethink things through. Karma cannot be avoided, in most cases.

    ---
    And that was my last post for a while.
    Thanks TH. I learnt a lot.
    Last edited by chocolate; 19th October 2014 at 08:36.

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    Default Re: The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs

    Quote Posted by aranuk (here)
    God, Higher Self and such only complicate the reality I feel. When I am in Silence/darkness there is absolutely no description that makes any sense to that experience. No talk of Divine, Source, Higher Self, there is nothing and no mind, complete freedom I would say. No Love, and nothing else really. Just nothing that I am experiencing. No words can come close to describe it really. Maybe I AM no- thing and no- body, no personality, nothing at all.

    Stan
    In stillness, the mind is held blank, or calm. It's not empty, because the true you, your being, is holding it in stillness. Any thoughts or actions that come up don't come from within the mind, but from outside it. Thoughts -- perhaps including violent thoughts, or thoughts connected to some psychic attack -- fly across it like birds in a sky with no wind at all, and then there's no trace of them left behind.

    A mind that has such calmness can now act, even busily, but it will keep its underlying stillness. But it will do this by receiving from the intuition or from something even higher, and altering nothing of what it receives except for giving it a mental form.

    What the well-developed intuition, or maybe just the developing intuition, provides in the case of a psychic attack are the precise resources to cut off and quash the attack. It's a bit like the way that in World War 2 the Japanese kamikazi pilots used Zen meditation to overcome their own fear (rather than any external interference or psychic attack) to silence any impact any thoughts of fear going through their mind could any longer have.
    Last edited by TraineeHuman; 21st October 2014 at 01:55.

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    Default Re: The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs

    Quote Posted by TraineeHuman (here)
    Quote Posted by aranuk (here)
    God, Higher Self and such only complicate the reality I feel. When I am in Silence/darkness there is absolutely no description that makes any sense to that experience. No talk of Divine, Source, Higher Self, there is nothing and no mind, complete freedom I would say. No Love, and nothing else really. Just nothing that I am experiencing. No words can come close to describe it really. Maybe I AM no- thing and no- body, no personality, nothing at all.

    Stan
    In stillness, the mind is held blank, or calm. It's not empty, because the true you, your being, is holding it in stillness. Any thoughts or actions that come up don't come from within the mind, but from outside it. Thoughts -- perhaps including violent thoughts, or thoughts connected to some psychic attack -- fly across it like birds in a sky with no wind at all, and then there's no trace of them left behind.

    A mind that has such calmness can now act, even busily, but it will keep its underlying stillness. But it will do this by receiving from the intuition or from something even higher, and altering nothing of what it receives except for giving it a mental form.

    What the well-developed intuition, or maybe just the developing intuition, provides in the case of a psychic attack are the precise resources to cut off and quash the attack. It's a bit like the way that in World War 2 the Japanese kamikazi pilots used Zen meditation to overcome their own fear (rather than any external interference or psychic attack) to silence any impact any thoughts of fear going through their mind could any longer have.
    Wise words again TH. Thank you. Just last night as I was getting to sleep I had vague images of people drifting through my mind and it happened again, I am switched off suddenly. As before I shouted out loud, "NO". I then woke up feeling not sleepy at all. I was planning when this happened again that I would not be afraid and I would just see what happens. That plan didn't work unfortunately. One second before the switch goes off I am alive and the next I am dead. That's what it's like for me. As I'm falling asleep gently I can sometimes feel the blood changing in my head. Rudolf Steiner once described that as we go to sleep the blood changes from red blood into white blood. I am looking forward to a glossary of Steiners' topics being referenced so they can be found easily. I have a collection of 250 books of Steiners and this description of the blood changing its properties is in one of my books. However at the moment I would have to read them all to find the particular book where he said that. Anyway, when I meditate and reach that stillness of mind it comes so gently as if the light is getting dimmer and dimmer until there is pure darkness. There is hardly any comparison with that and the switch off suddenly.

    Stan
    If you don't follow your spirit without hesitation, you end up following your hesitation without spirit.

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  23. Link to Post #1812
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    Default Re: The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs

    More about this fascinating and ever so important subject of stillness. Stillness has various degrees or levels of it that we may achieve. But if you practise regular self-watching it's very helpful if you can get to a certain point at least sometimes. At this particular point you'll be able to pull back from the physical senses and the lower mind, or lower consciousness, that's joined to them and historically evolved out of them. Strictly speaking, this means taking a point of view that's OB -- external to your body and the body's entire world.

    As you do so, you won't be able to help but notice that there is really just a chaotic mess of desires and habits and associations and notions and automatic behavior patterns there. These will appear to you to be something like a can of worms -- constantly moving and spinning around, but quite blindly, and each rather independently of the others. Busily going nowhere, really. There's no real intelligence or certainly no higher intelligence bringing order into all that. There are just blind stimulus-response associations. A bit like the way when you drive, part of the driving is done automatically.

    You'll also notice that "normally", whenever you're not watching in detachment from all this, you just accept it as given and you try to bring at least some order and reasonableness into it. And the trouble is, you mostly just get swept up into that chaos and you end up constantly producing rationalizations to yourself for why you behave the way you do. But these rationalizations mostly aren't honest. And people call that normal life.

    The only ways to exit from that "quicksand" are: either through strong, one-pointed concentration, or else by managing to bring stillness, or true silence, into that chaos -- which many manage to do for a time while they meditate.

    Part of what I was trying to explain in my previous post, though, is that once you learn how to still all that inner chaos -- at least for a little time now and then --, you'll have learnt how to have a great mental passivity. That remarkable passivity is something that you'll then gradually learn to take with you while you undertake all your normal activities. It's there in the background, underlying everything, and you sure do feel it. Eventually it turns into peace and bliss/joy/love. The basic meditation instruction of "let everything be just exactly as it is" is designed to bring you ever closer and more fully to that place. The ego hates this, because the ego wants to forever be blindly going places, doing things, instead of simply being present. But the challenge is to remain present on the inside even as you do all your external everyday activities.

    And I also maintain that such stillness or presence is for various reasons a great protection against many, though not all, forms of psychic attack.

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    Default Re: The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs

    There is a further very important level or stage of stillness beyond the one described in my previous post. Briefly, this is where one clearly separates one's intuition from one's intellect -- and strongly in favor of the intuition. There are various ways to describe what this involves. For instance, chocolate has sometimes protested that some member was taking an idea too literally rather than figuratively. To further clarify what's involved here, I'd like to take the liberty of quoting most of post #24 here:
    Quote Think of an important question you’d like an answer to, if only you were psychic enough to access the answer. Or better, ... find a close friend who has such a question. What you are going to do is get an answer, or some accurate advice on the question, directly ...

    Firstly, make sure you are in a quiet space and that you are psychically protected. A simple request to your guardian angels to protect you and all your body cells and the space will do, if you like. Next, you need to get yourself grounded. If you don’t know how to do that quickly, sit down and put the end of your thumb over your belly button. The middle of your hand (which has a huge energy chakra) should be directly over your second chakra (your centre of gravity). Keep that hand there, and that will be enough to keep you grounded throughout what follows.

    Next, once you are sitting quietly and peacefully with your eyes closed, in your head say the question, once. Now keep your mind still and free of all stray thoughts for at least 30 seconds, but hold the intention that an answer will come to you after 30 seconds. Thirty seconds is a longer time than you may think. But ignore anything that comes onto the blank screen of your mind before 30 seconds are up. Please be patient, or you won’t get an accurate answer.

    Then, whatever you see on that screen of your mind will be an accurate answer. It will most likely be a symbol of some sort or a picture, or several of either. Note what you see in the initial half-second, because after that your thinking mind will start to alter it. Be willing to accept anything, however wild or out of left field or nonsensical it may seem to be.

    Tell your friend what you initially saw. It will usually mean more to them than to you, and they will be able to interpret what it means for them. In my experience, some symbols have universal meanings, but they are few in number. ...

    If you see nothing but blackness, without thinking describe what that particular blackness feels like to you. That will then be the answer.
    Notice that this exercise involves totally trusting the silence, and not your intellect, to bring you an answer. However, the answer is then expressed in mental terms: one or more pictures or symbols, or maybe words also. So, you are going into formlessness -- the silence --, and trusting that that formlessness will communicate the answer to you, by bringing an answer into the world of form.

    But we can generalize this exercise. Is not every situation implicitly always asking the question of what is your best response to it? Even if you don't consciously consider that such a question is being asked of you at a given time, isn't it true that you always act and feel and think and so on in response to that implicit question? Sometimes the answer can indeed be provided by your analytic mind, such as when you are doing your accounts or working out the details of certain types of plans (e.g. tonight's dinner), and other such mundane matters. But living by the intuition in favor over the intellect involves most of the time responding to life in a similar way to how you do the above exercise. Eventually you learn how to make the silence last much longer than thirty seconds.

    Now, let's assume that you don't really, truly know yet that the silence/stillness is the true you. Then, the more you trust the silence (here that's you as who/what you currently falsely assume you are), the more the silence will trust that "you". And the more good information and gifts it will then bring to you. More and more.

    Another paradox is that you have to totally trust whatever the silence tells you, despite the fact that initially and for some time you won't always listen accurately by any means, and hence you'll seem to receive some false messages. Unfortunately, the instant you try to question or evaluate or comment on or react to such a message, the flow coming to "you" from the silence stops. So, you have to totally trust messages even though initially some --as you "receive" them -- will be quite wrong. How can one bear doing that? Well, if, instead, you continue trusting your can-of-worms ordinary mind and intellect, as you had up to that point, then they too will be misleading, and without any hope of becoming accurately reliable, let alone liberating you from unhappiness etc, at some point in the near future.

    You have to take the leap of trust -- trust in the true self you don't really know; and that you can only ever fully access through trusting without question. More and more and more.

    I appreciate this means continually stepping boldly into an empty chasm with no safety net in sight. But as far as I know, it's the only way to get the Higher Mind / soul, and eventually even the intuition, to fully descend.

    I appreciate this may be highly distasteful to the Western mind, which aggrandizes intellectual thought to be our highest capacity. Moreover, the Western mind is apt to mistake the ability of the Mind not to think but be completely silent for some kind of incapacity for thought or some great lack of critical or accurate perception. All I can say is that intellectual thought is not our highest capacity. Not only that, but to succeed in living by the "silent" intuition's knowledge we need to actively keep relegating intellectual thought to a status altogether subordinate to the intuition, merely its servant and nothing more. This is also not easy because our intellectual mind will probably be settled into an almost lifelong habit of mimicking our higher faculties, such as the intuition, so fully as to hide their very existence from many of us.

    Ah, the beauty and the supreme peace of the absolute Silence, more eloquent than any words or language.
    Last edited by TraineeHuman; 24th October 2014 at 08:34.

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    Default Re: The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs

    Still on the subject of stillness, I'd like to say something further that's hopefully relevant to what Stan has mentioned.

    Recently there was a General Discussion thread started by greybeard, where he asserted that when it comes to personal change (or "awakening", to use his term), the big questions are: "From what?" and "To what?". I'd like to explain, though, why I consider "To what?" to be largely a wrong question -- at least, largely wrong until after one has already gone through the change in question. I felt this was a somewhat wrong question on similar grounds to how I don't feel it's good for someone to describe in detail what another person I haven't met yet is supposedly like. Because when I meet that person I'd like to see for myself, and not merely see them through the other person's filter.

    Since we only ever get spiritual/emotional healing or change by going deeper inside, I guess you could say: "Change to what?" could be a wrong question because everything higher is already "here what" and not at all "elsewhere what", except for the fact that we haven't surrendered to its full release "here" yet. But it's still waiting "here", not "there".

    But the level of stillness I now want to talk about is the one that's achieved through psychological death. Death means the total negating of what (supposedly, for us at present) is. I suggest it's not intrinsically a negative thing, in spite of its bad reputation. Yes, it's a total rejection of everything -- except the sublime freedom of nothingness, emptiness. And that is what dying to be reborn means. And I do mean (psychologically) dying -- giving up everything, including any notions or concepts or even intuitions of what will happen or what one may perhaps change into. It's a total giving up of security -- except that maybe you've already discovered that the Emptiness, the Nothing, is OK or even a blissful place, however spooky or weird it may be too.

    You don't have to wait for an NDE or actual physical death before you drink of this, set "the impossible" free a little bit. I've occasionally read some member or other writing about their personal despair. And I've wondered: how to persuade that individual into totally rejecting everything (including potentially the idea of possible suicide at a physical level)? It's not easy to find such a way to persuade them, because it all has to come from the individual themselves. Only they can give away all that (they suppose) they are. Do you truly have the courage, and sufficient freedom from emtional numbness, to be that strong? Can you take that leap -- perhaps the biggest leap of all -- of huge faith in yourself? "Neti, neti." Which means: Source is neither this nor that. How can you have a radically huge change in your life unless you leave all that you were behind, at least temporarily? And then you're free to add more into your life, to enrich it with something completely different.

    Strangely, totally giving away and in the most radical and (positively) powerful way rejecting all the defensiveness and suffering and the security blankets within you is, or can be, an act of the purest self-love. Love sees what is false, but rejects it. When you've thrown out everything else, all that's left that's truly you is pure love, pure being, and understanding. Maybe it's not so surprising, then, that both U.G. Krishnamurti and Eckhart Tolle both at one stage spent several years living as a homeless person. Inside themselves they had died to all that nonsense. They had negated what is (as they had known it up to that point), for they knew that beyond that is the place where true freedom lives, the place where a truer and deeper level of "what is" then emerges.

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    Default Re: The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs

    There's another side to darkness, although we may not realize we live in this. Think of what darkness may mean in the broadest sense. Until we one day will manage to liberate certain higher faculties and states within ourselves, we live in a world that's already dark by nature. What I mean by this is, as long as the ordinary mind has control over our life -- which it has for the great majority of people --, we live in a world with divisions, ignorance and limitations everywhere. And the animalistic ordinary mind is actually the creator of many of these.

    The root of this darkness is the fact that our ordinary mind sees us as separate from the rest of the universe, which it sees as "out there", somehow split off. And as only being relevant when it directly interacts with our individual mind or person. This is a kind of prison. It's not that this planet has somehow been designated as a "prison planet". But it's because the humans who currently inhabit it have imposed darkness on themselves, through their myopia. The alternative would be for us to see ourselves as a conscious expression of the One. That would break us out of this jail, so to speak.

    You could say it's simply a matter of changing your perception, changing how you see things, to always or often seeing and feeling the One in and through everything -- except that you also need to realize the One to some degree, to truly know and preferably continually notice that the One is the glue that holds absolutely everything together. Otherwise, all we experience is the darkness of the "shadows" of the One instead of the One itself.

    In this sense, the "life in darkness" which it is supposedly normal to lead imprisons the soul, and even any spark or action of the Divine. This "mine, mine, mine versus the entire rest of the universe" separate and alienated life amounts to a continual self-manufactured contest which the mind, the individual person will continually lose in massive ways. It leaves the mind helpless and in continual suffering, and largely reduced to purely mechanical responses to being so overwhelmed and continually used and driven by the gigantically mismatched "opponent" that the universe then becomes.

    It's only when our (higher) consciousness develops more and more that we dimly but gradually begin to learn to enjoy and master the play of the universe. We begin to flex our consciousness muscles more and more and discover that through our not resisting the universe it becomes more and more apparent that in our depths that which has the mastery of the universe itself lies dormant, timeless and infinite. We begin to discover that who we really are is undoubtedly eternal and enormously powerful. But to get to that point, we do somehow need to get far advanced in eliminating desire, which at this point is too "dark" a thing to be anything but a hindrance.

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    Default Re: The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs

    If I may:



    If I may not, then I'll come later and delete the post.

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    Default Re: The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs

    Great video, chocolate, packed full of simply expressed basic truths that cut deep. The truth is so simple, it makes one wonder why doesn't everyone we meet day to day "get it" more. I felt the best parts for me were from 9:50 to 20:30 and 21:30 to 25:00. What a shame that we don't have a culture that passes this sort of information on to every kid.

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    Default Re: The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs

    In a way I can say I am simply happy I lived up to this point in time. This is one of five videos, all quite amazing.
    "Inner Worlds was created by Canadian film maker, musician and meditation teacher Daniel Schmidt. The film could be described as the external reflection of his own adventures in meditation."
    http://www.innerworldsmovie.com/index.cfm?page=about
    There was a thread here in the beginning of May about it.

    ( but, to be honest, I think the creators have been reading ((... possibly from your thread)) quite a lot, too, not just meditating. )
    Last edited by chocolate; 31st October 2014 at 10:00.

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    Default Re: The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs

    Well, such basic truths as that (spiritual, and psychological) freedom is only ever found by going within is known to anyone, present or past, who has managed to find at least some such freedom and to reflect accurately on his/her journey there. Ditto with the truth that conscious stillness/ silence is the only true way out, and of how it works, and so on for most of the things in the video.

    And the writers of the video have managed to express many very important things very simply and clearly, and very confusion-free . That takes great skill, and probably great maturity of practice.

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    Default Re: The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs

    I'd like to hopefully clear up a little of the huge confusion surrounding what individuality is and whether or not we need to eventually lose it. Unfortunately, although there've been at least several very great Indian men of wisdom in the last century and a half, most of them have been seriously misguided as far as claiming -- as a result of falling victim to some dumbing-down I'll explain -- that all our individuality eventually needs to be dissolved or removed. And in favor of absorption into some kind of universal blancmange, so to speak. Ditto the Western esoteric traditions, which are unfortunately major victims of the dumbing-down known as platonism, or neoplatomism. Platonism says that what is more general or universal is more real. Hence, according to it, we eventually need to evolve into being general and thereby lose all our individuality.

    But as I've frequently said, the truth is, the ultimate spiritual achievement is that of descension. Descension means bringing in, and seeing, the general and transcendental in the individual and particular. It doesn't mean destroying the individual at all -- well, apart from the destruction of any neurotic attachment to the individual. It means keeping both the individual and the general and universal, together.

    Consider the sayings of Jesus regarding how if you do something inconsiderate even to the "least" of persons, you truly, truly have done it to Jesus too. What does this mean? I believe it was intended as no figure of speech, but as a statement of fact -- though only because "Jesus" had reached a type of universality with all humankind. But how could that be? Well, in some of my own experience and in that of others, one comes to feel that one sees and feels all friends, for example, as all being more the same than they are different. This doesn't mean one loses touch with their differences. In fact, although their individual differences now seem more minor than before, one seems to savor them, to appreciate them more greatly also. Of course, the "rational", limited mind may consider this a contradiction. How can there be a greater appreciation of sameness and a greater appreciation of difference at the same time? It may be paradoxical, but it's true. One even becomes aware of a great sameness, a great intimacy to you, in every human being and even in every animate being as well, and maybe even in every form of life, including rocks and what have you.

    One reason why some get misled about this is that there are at least two broad stages of (spiritual) enlightenment. And in the lowest stage one does indeed experience certain general or transcendent, and also even universal things as being far more vivid and real than any particular things. In particular, the first sub-stage of the first stage brings an enormous aloofness. In that aloofness, one of the things one becomes very strongly aware of, if I can be forgiven for yet again using an expression I invented a few months ago, is the glue of the One or Oneness that holds absolutely everything else together. That "glue" is extraordinarily beautiful, and intoxicating. The initial aloofness is a consequence of being burnt by the Sun of its glory. It can take one years to recover from this. Incidentally, this is why I highly disapprove of the use of all hallucinogenic drugs and of marijuana and ayahusca. It's bad enough to experience that aloof state by natural means. At least then the experience gets integrated into one's life and psyche. But very sudden, artificial entry into it is likely to lead to unfortunate and very escapistic work/career choices.

    The second of the two broad stages is the one where descension occurs -- which is integration of the mundane and everyday and finite with the transcendental and general and blissful.

    Next, I need to explain about all the dumbing-down, both Eastern and Western. I'll do that in a day or so, but for now would like to leave you to consider one Western dumbing-down outright lie which has affected both the East of the last two centuries and the West hugely. I'm talking about the Western notion of "nothing". The truth is, there is simply no such thing as nothing. It's a purely fictitious idea, I suggest. It's a little like talking of "the present king of France". Although that phrase seems to be meaningful, it's really meaningless because France is no longer a monarchy.
    Last edited by TraineeHuman; 1st November 2014 at 13:46.

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