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Thread: The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs

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    Avalon Member TraineeHuman's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs

    Hi Ernie,

    I don't have an interest myself (particularly in recent years) in saying things about spirituality that aren't based on my own experience(s), or extrapolated from that experience as some kind of an explanation of it. So, then, based on my experience (in the real world), the only way to become free of any particular form or kind of suffering is through joy and acceptance of it. In other words, the suffering essentially dissolves (or dissolves within several minutes) even as I'm experiencing it. Or else, I'm certainly not free of that particular area of suffering yet.

    It would seem to me, then, that the only way to get free of this "vale of suffering" would be, as I say, through being able to maintain joy and positive mood even in the midst of all suffering. No sour grapes about it. I don't see how one could do that with the point of view that suffering is too terrible to re-experience it. Rather, the point of view should be, surely, that one can re-experience it and not be defeated or wounded by it at all, but one no longer needs to do so, because there are other things to do, or not-do.

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    Canada Avalon Member Ernie Nemeth's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs

    Thank you for replying to what truly amounted to a non-sequitur.

    So I'll drop the drama...to reply.

    The point I am trying to make is that it is this world that sours my experience, that if it was a world of our own choosing it would be otherwise. It is the travesties of this life that assault my sensibilities. The unfairness, the pain. And the knowledge that this world could be a place of joy in a matter of days, if that was the intent. But it is not. And so here we are.

    I do not pretend to know the intent of the Creator. But it is obvious this world was intended. And so I rile against the idea that such a world is a place in which I belong, but I must since here I am.

    Blind, I turn to look but cannot see. Deaf, I hear a call that is not there. Mute, I utter a plea and silence ushers forth.

    Like that.
    Forget about it

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    United States Avalon Member Valerie Villars's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs

    Ultimately, I find the ones who see the most, have the most pain for the injustice in this world.
    But, I try to flip it and think.."Well, what if we were sent here with amnesia, to somehow help the situation."

    Perhaps, if we had full recall of who we are and why we are here, we could be tortured for information or otherwise blow our cover. Look what happened to Jesus. He knew his full power and connection to source. I like to think this is a different way to help.

    I say this, because I have had some recall of our true nature or mine specifically, but was not allowed to fully remember or hold on to that knowledge.

    Thus, I am just an average girl who is seen as a bit kooky. You know, the Fool. If it's for the greater good, I'm all in and I can handle this.
    "The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what we share with someone when we are uncool." From the movie "Almost Famous""l "Let yourself stand cool and composed before a million universes." Walt Whitman

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    Avalon Member East Sun's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs

    I a long time ago I came to the realization that there is no hell or heaven. Those concepts are a
    construct of religion trying to control the people they were assigned to "shepherd" and keep in line.

    There may be an existence beyond our physical lives after many reincarnations when we reach an
    enlightened state butt that's a maybe also.

    There is evidence, according to Dr. Ian Stephenson, that reincarnation does indeed exist, but
    that does not tell us a lot. That could be the way things are and we do not know why.

    Have we lived many lives and not have clue as to what we experienced? In all reality we just
    don't know.

    Is there a god, maybe yes and maybe no. If yes, that god could be totally different to anything
    we can imagine.

    I try to keep an open mind to all possibilities.
    Question Everything, twice or maybe trice..........

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    Avalon Member TraineeHuman's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs

    Let's assume that in reality everything truly is one. Also let's assume that you yourself are in touch with full reality (or, is it that you are really and permanently consciously merged into full reality?) , so much that you know that this total oneness is the truth, and the whole truth.

    Then I need to respectfully point out that actually, in that case, you don't know what "one" means. Why not? Well, to see this we need to build up a picture of the implications of utter oneness. Firstly, if all there is is one, the one, the oneness, then anything, and everything, other than "the one", or "oneness", is an illusion, and non-existent. In other words, it's not "one" as in contrast to "two" or as in contrast to anything else, is it?

    "Oneness", then, because of this, is in many respects a stand-alone concept . Here, reality is the one without a second. No need for any other concept -- or, at the very least, definitely not any other numbers-wise concept. Paradoxically, though, it seems to me this stand-alone quality of that concept (the concept of the one) flatly and totally contradicts the quality of ultimate boundless interaction and inter-relation and fertility -- i.e., the manyness --, which is what that concept is presumably intended by you to be pointing at when you speak of oneness (because you're saying, of course, that the one is the all, an all which to us seems supremely interactive by its very nature, and even necessarily so).

    Let me put this point a slightly different way. If there is only oneness, then you just don't really know twoness or separation, at all. Not really. Instead, everything must in some sense or subtle fashion be very tightly glued together, in a way rather like sticky toffee. And it would be just too confusing to have two notions (such as "oneness" and "twoness") referring to exactly the same thing or phenomenon. So, the "one" here must be very different in meaning from the number "one" we know in daily life when we do our shopping or our paperwork, where it always points towards the possibility of "two". That's because here, there isn't even any possibility of "two". But -- to go a step further -- I suggest it's also even misleading to talk of "the one" at all here, in the "space" of nothing-but-one. It would be more accurate -- or, at least, more clear -- to instead use a phrase like "all existence" or "all reality" -- something that we don't even imagine there could ever be two of, because it would be impossible by the very definition of the words and concepts.

    This brings me to asking certain questions about how people who describe themselves as "nondualists" live. For instance, it seems to be the case their actions make it clear that they do after all know, and respect, the existence of physical separation. I question, though, whether many such individuals really have fully integrated the oneness with "the illusion" in their daily lives. In my adolescence and before, and in my twenties, I had many experiences of what was clearly profound oneness in some sense. At sixteen I would ponder what it might really mean to apparently know, as it seemed I did, that I was the universe and I was God and so on. And I would also, for example, wonder about how to solve the problem that it seems impossible to find a "before" in relation to something "before:" the whole of linear time. Then I gradually realized, more and more, over a period of years, that what it was really all about was just integrating the Divine, the One, into ordinary experience. Then I realized that no, it was really about integrating the soul or the spirit into the same. (This is also why I expect experiences with drugs won't do it for anyone. Because it's all about integration into ordinary everyday life, and not escaping, at all, in many ways.) But many of the nondualists seem to insist on believing that the ordinary is an illusion, and it seems to me they thereby miss the whole point, and the true benefits. Don't get me wrong. I certainly don't mind someone saying that the truest reality is oneness -- as long as they every day continuously keep living what they're saying.
    Last edited by TraineeHuman; 15th November 2019 at 00:09.

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    Canada Avalon Member Ernie Nemeth's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs

    The only way oneness is real is if we share one mind. If we share one mind this must be one heck of a large mind. And if we live in a mind scape this reality is truly an illusion but so is every experience of individuality.

    If we exist in the mind of a great being, are we even real?
    Forget about it

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