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Thread: The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs

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    United States Avalon Member Sammy's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs

    The best laid plans of mice and men and humans like us who become open to "training."

    I wanted to "be there" but instead, I got pulled into tasks at "the day job" and well... wasn't able to attend BUT... I actually think "i" was there afterall.

    Why? Because at exactly 18 minutes after the hour I suddenly took pause and recognized the most interesting calming wave of... energyless energy and I just know it was you folks! hahaha so I said Hello and Love to you All and then went back to my tasks.

    What I took away from this was that I am more convinced than ever that "we" are always in all dimensions, all realities simultaneously... it is where "we" point our focus as to what segment of the eternal dream scape "we" perceive we are experiencing.

    I realize now, "i" was there yesterday while "I" was engrossed in mundane tasks related to my "day job."

    I now know - "i" am always ever everywhere...

    Love to You All, Chester
    Last edited by Sammy; 23rd December 2012 at 22:00.

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    Default Re: The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs

    Deneon has asked me for comments about what he describes in his recent posts in the The Secret of the Soul thread (posts #65 and #67 there). Deneon asks some great questions, so I’d like to respond to some of his questions here.

    One piece of up front disclosure about my biases first. I guess after I had learnt to astral travel regularly at nights for a few years, my “astral travel” balloon got pricked somewhat because I had a spiritual teacher and psychotherapist who insisted that the only OB travel I would do, if I was at all smart and well-informed, would never involve using some kind of “astral body” or “higher body” to travel in. Some years later I would understand that basically he was ever so right on this point, and why. So, that’s part of the reason why I feel I wouldn’t be faithful to any reader without at least trying to give them constant hints of why travel without any “body” is better and is also eventually do-able for every one of you.

    One general comment I would make about Deneon is that this – OB travel -- is something that he obviously has a true passion for. When just looking at or thinking about a subject brings up such a great well of energy inside you that you can’t even sleep, that’s what I call a true passion. It’s always invariably something you have a great talent for and were meant to do, extremely well. It would be great if everybody could find such a level of passion for this particular subject, because it’s so important. Also because it takes months or years of work to master this.

    Secondly, this Deneon guy can actually feel lots of energy in his feet and throughout his legs. That’s impressive, because the great majority of people can’t. Moreover, my private benchmark for whether or not somebody is a natural psychic healer is whether or not they can feel at least some tiny trickle of life energy flowing out of their feet, at least when they attempt to do some psychic healing. My second benchmark is can they feel the faintest shiver along their spine in such a situation? Again, not a problem for this guy. So, Deneon, you already naturally happen to have certain energies and skills released inside you which take you well out of the “beginner” box in my book. By the way, Deneon, whyever order a blood test when you’re more truly normal or natural than most?

    Next, one idea I’d like to throw in here is something invented by the late Barry Long. (Eckhart Tolle and I were both at some stage students of Barry. Tolle uses the same concept, as far as I’ve read with essentially the same meaning.) I’m referring to “the inner body”. One way Barry described this was to say you can think of it as everything that’s inside you. And that when you die, the shape of all everything you can feel inside you stays exactly the same, and that’s exactly what lives on.

    The point here is that “the inner body” is the same exact thing as the astral body, pretty much. Only, Barry emphasized how it’s “inside”. That’s one reason why I claim you don’t necessarily need to have “the vibrations” in order to jump OB. Instead, if you can get fully in touch with your true feelings, and with your intuitive instincts, I claim that’s another doorway to the same place. I hope this isn’t confusing the hell out of some people. But what I’m saying is that any way you can get much more real about who and what you really, truly are will get you to the OB place. You are an infinite being – or Being itself, or something even beyond that – playing hide-and-seek with itself and fooling itself into playing small. You extend far beyond your body, to far beyond the most distant star, to beyond eternity. Just be very honest about yourself – like Chester (Justoneman) has recently demonstrated how to be – and bingo! you’re well over halfway there, no vibrations included. I literally don’t often use those vibrations at all. Sometimes I just barely notice them faintly, for a couple of seconds, as I whiz on further. (Not that I’m necessarily an expert on what the problems are that other people may have in learning a different way than mine.)

    Incidentally, the 4D or 5D world may or may not look anything like the physical world we know. Many people – living and dead – find it convenient to create pictures of grass and trees and so forth, but they’re pictures, and not the real thing. You can also “fly” low enough in 4D that you see the physical world, but you also see energy fields around everything that has life, and you see some rather different colors for many things. You also see beings or energies that you won’t find in the physical world.

    Or, you may see scenery and energies that look nothing like the physical world. I’m sure we’ve all seen at least a glimpse of these in some nightmare we had some time when we were ill.

    Next, Deneon, it sounds to me like the tingling sensation you feel probably is indeed precisely “the vibrations”. It’s not such a big deal. It’s your life-energy moving through you. You just need to get comfortable with using energy more powerfully and still feeling OK about it and not like you’ve gone bananas. The more practice you can get at this the better.

    You can also bring life-energy sensations on by doing something like walking q’i gong, or probably through learning how to do t’ai chi.

    As far as I understand, while you’re OB your physical body still feels things. It doesn’t get totally blanked out. (Until the day when you die, your consciousness isn’t going to let go of looking after that physical body, even if it directs lots of its attention elsewhere when you’re OB.) That’s why I suspect when you experienced becoming a giant you actually were either flipping in and out or you were OB for most of that time.

    I’ll pause here, Deneon, to give Jake a chance to reply to your further comments before I continue with mine.

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    Default Re: The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs

    I was wondering has anyone had a partial OBE?

    The most I've ever managed from the waking state was to get my hands out.
    I spent about an hour joyously clapping together my see though spirit hands over my head,
    fascinated by the fact that I could hear the sound of them clapping.

    I managed to get to this stage three times in the same night after reading 'Astral Dynamics'(I think it was that),
    and using the technique of trying to wiggle my finger without using any muscles.
    That was a while back now and I've had no luck since then. I will try and try again.

    My reasons are spiritual since I feel that this would be the easiest way to meet my guide.
    I did call out for my guide in the partial state but nobody came.

    Thanks TraineeHuman! For this great thread!

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  7. Link to Post #104
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    Default Re: The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs

    Quote Posted by AwakeInADream (here)
    I was wondering has anyone had a partial OBE?

    The most I've ever managed from the waking state was to get my hands out.
    I spent about an hour joyously clapping together my see though spirit hands over my head,
    fascinated by the fact that I could hear the sound of them clapping.

    I managed to get to this stage three times in the same night after reading 'Astral Dynamics'(I think it was that),
    and using the technique of trying to wiggle my finger without using any muscles.
    That was a while back now and I've had no luck since then. I will try and try again.

    My reasons are spiritual since I feel that this would be the easiest way to meet my guide.
    I did call out for my guide in the partial state but nobody came.
    ...
    I'm glad to hear that you've tried the exercise a few hundred times. You need to keep practising further still.

    In post #10 I described an exercise which every member can successfully do and get results from on their first attempt. But so far there's been absolutely no feedback or comment. Has anybody been doing it? It was designed to give people certain skills and insights that should make it easier for you to do OB travel (with no fear).

    Again, in post #24 I described an exercise which everybody can learn to do on their first try (though you do need to be patient and keep your mind still for the full 30 seconds). Again, no feedback so far, from anyone. This exercise teaches you, among other things, how to begin to interpret your dreams. Interpreting your dreams correctly is much more important than just remembering them. Has anybody out there been practising that exercise?

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  9. Link to Post #105
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    Default Re: The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs

    I've tried the one where you said to make your hands and neck rubbery and I did have a lucid dream a few nights later. I posted about it in the 'Here and Now' thread, I will quote myself on it:

    Quote The veil really is thinning!

    I had possibly the second best dream I've ever had last night (nothing will ever beat the tri-une light of God dream), lucid and fully conscious.

    After spending some time zooming about looking at stuff, hearing a helicopter up above and going up to take a closer look (how exciting), I ended up meeting my Dad who has been passed on for quite some time now. I've seen him before in dreams but never like this, in full technicolor with a speaking role. It was really him! I got to tell him I loved him and give him a hug, and also resolved some old issues (we didn't part on the best of terms). I feel renewed now psychologically, like a great weight has been lifted.

    What a great gift to receive at such a magical and transformational time!
    I think you helped to make this happen, so thank you!

    I will go back now and read the posts you mentioned.

    EDIT: Ah yes! Post#10, that's the one. I saw myself in sandals at the end.
    I will keep trying that one.
    Last edited by AwakeInADream; 24th December 2012 at 21:51.

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    Default Re: The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs

    Wow! I've just tried the exercise in post #24, and something strange happened.

    I'm used to feeling my 3rd eye tingling just above the eyebrows, but just then trying to access 5D for the answer to my question, I felt a tingling right at the top of my forehead, just under my hairline.

    Is that a different Chakra? Or do they move?

    Anyway, I asked "Is there a specific frequency of sound that can help me to have an OBE?", and the answer I got was the Ying Yang symbol, which I don't often think about so it came as a surprise.
    Last edited by AwakeInADream; 10th April 2013 at 02:33. Reason: removed dead image link

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    Default Re: The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs

    Quote Posted by Libico (here)
    I took part in the exercise and thought I'd share my experience. ... I will admit I did put a strong focus on trying to go OB and meet others but when I realized that it likely wasn't going to happen I realized that maybe my 4D/5D self was meeting with everyone but I was with my 3D here so I asked that I be allowed to experience and remember what happened.

    Something interesting though - at around 5-10 minutes passed the designated meeting time (I had been meditating for around 20 minutes at this point), I heard a very slight humming from in my head. It wasn't like the vibrations that I get when close to going OBE, but something very very faint. As this was going on I saw what I could only describe as waves of light-bluish light passing before my eyes going... While this was going on I tried to will myself to go out of body but with no success. After 1-2 minutes the lights stopped ...
    Having read Libico’s and Justoneman’s accounts of what they experienced during the group exercise, I’m left with some big questions.

    I happen to know beyond what I consider any reasonable doubt that both Libico and Justoneman were present during the exercise in an OB form, and both quite actively so. I guess if a person has been dreaming, if they wake up just after then they’ll know for sure that they were just recently in a dreamworld. But to me, this seems to prove that people also spend considerable OB time that doesn’t involve dreaming. It’s looking to me like no dreaming/daydreaming = no memory of what may have happened OB.

    I find it hard not to conclude that we have higher, OB parts of ourselves that to some degree are leading separate lives from us. I'm led to wonder whether these higher "versions of us" are even interested in sharing their experiences with us, beyond attempting to warn us about the biggest current issues in our lives. As far as I understand, such warnings are mostly conveyed to us through dreams, plus some things like omens. Incidentally, this would be one explanation of why synchronicity occurs. Synchronicity might just be phenomena which some higher version of us decides to share with the 3D us.

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    Default Re: The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs

    That would explain why within the dream state you can have a most profound knowledge and understanding about something like the nature of God for instance,
    and then upon waking forget what you absolutely knew for sure, because what your higher self knows doesn't filter through into your everyday consciousness.

    Is the spiritual path not about integrating these different parts of the self, so that you may become consciously, what you already are at a higher level?

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    Default Re: The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs

    Quote Posted by AwakeInADream (here)
    Wow! I've just tried the exercise in post #24, and something strange happened.

    I'm used to feeling my 3rd eye tingling just above the eyebrows, but just then trying to access 5D for the answer to my question, I felt a tingling right at the top of my forehead, just under my hairline.

    Is that a different Chakra? Or do they move?

    Anyway, I asked "Is there a specific frequency of sound that can help me to have an OBE?", and the answer I got was the Ying Yang symbol, which I don't often think about so it came as a surprise.
    I think your first question is a bit of a side-issue. However, what I would see as important is the fact that subtle energy is flowing out of and into your head, indicating that your pineal gland is activated and at work. Both the third eye area and the crown chakra are good places for you to be feeling such energy at work.

    The answer you got to your second question suggests to me that Robert Monroe's "Hemi-synch" sound technology may indeed work to help people learn to astral travel. As I understand it, "Hemi-synch" involves "putting the two hemispheres of the brain slightly out of synch with each other, thereby forcing both of them to be active." I'm putting stuff in snigger-quotes because I believe a lot of the talk of the split-brain is greatly oversimplified. But the idea is, the vast majority of people get conditioned and educated and dumbed down into only using the analytical-"rational" "side" of their brain, as distinct from the intuitive. And once they're using both, bingo!, OB travel becomes easy and natural. Obviously, something like that is what your yin-yang symbol is indicating.

    But to me, it's a matter of being well-rounded as a being, in more senses than just being able to simultaneously hold both the analytical and the intuitive mode of viewing things.
    Last edited by TraineeHuman; 25th December 2012 at 04:01.

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    Default Re: The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs

    By some amazing coincidence/synchronicity I have just within the last couple of hours been reading Jakes Ebook 'The Book of Jacob',
    in which he talks about Robert Monroe's "Hemi-synch" sound technology, which was the first time I'd heard about it.
    The meaning of the Ying Yang symbol was made clear to me then, and now you've just confirmed it for me. That's pretty amazing!

    So I really do have access to my 5D self! Thank you TraineeHuman!
    Last edited by AwakeInADream; 25th December 2012 at 04:12.

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    Default Re: The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs

    Quote Posted by TraineeHuman (here)
    I had invited seven members to meet with me a little under an hour ago today for a group exercise. The first two minutes of the exercise had been planned to be a greeting of one another, followed by each of us, for ten minutes or more, individually sending light and healing to the people whom we most influence in each of our lives.

    I guess not surprisingly, in retrospect, what it seemed to turn into was some kind of joint healing and light-sending done mainly as a group. What I experienced was something quite stunningly beautiful visually speaking. The healing was sent to each member of the group in addition to the people in each individual’s life.

    What I experienced was as follows. And please, folks, don’t take anything personally, because that’s just ego. I initially went into 4D but close enough to 3D that I could see I was a few miles up, which was only slightly scarey since I’d been here before. One person – I know who -- was effortlessly flying around and eager to try to help others get somewhere higher. Another person – I know who -- kept creating an image that they were there as a kind of fly on the wall only, though that fly was right near the top of that wall, and the wall itself was certainly in the 4D world. A third person – I also know who – was kind of the joker or jester and was extrovertedly interacting with everybody all the time.

    Then there was a beautiful “aurora” of mostly violet light but also many colors. I know violet light as the kind of light that removes energies (especially “hitchhiker” energies) from 3D into higher places. What I saw was an incredible interplay of shapes (such as cubes in 4D) and waves in those colors. After about two minutes this was joined by a considerable amount of golden light from 15D – which is what I (claim I) use in psychic healing. The amazing dynamic patterns continued for eleven minutes, but now were predominantly golden, though with other colors still present as well. I also saw some beings from a much higher dimension who were providing much of the golden light, or assisting in its distribution in some way. That gives me serious hope that some serious healing may have taken place.

    After eleven minutes, most of this died away. At that point the joker individual insisted that we look at it all a different way, and somehow managed to turn the whole scene on its side, so that now what had been “higher” was no longer so.

    As an exercise in encountering others OB the exercise seems to have been a disappointment for a number who took part. As a healing exercise that brought in quite unexpected help from some very "high" and powerful benevolent beings, I suspect it was a considerable success. But I'll wait to see if there were tangible healing results.

    Anyway, that was my experience.
    I was one of the participants in this experiment and I really enjoyed it.

    Inexperienced in events like this, I set down to go through the steps that TraineeHUman suggested.
    First of all, the meditation worked pretty well as I am a beginner with meditating.

    Then, when it was time to greet the other participants... I didn't notice any presence, but it was a nice and joyful feeling to know that friends on other places in the world where doing the same thing as me and connecting with each other.

    When it was time to open a channel for healing, I invited these energies in a respectful way, as I have learned over the past months (mostly from practising in the Here and Now thread, when people ask for help) and then my hands and feet got warm and I could feel the flow of energy go through me.

    During these ten minutes, I noticed several times that I started to fall asleep and this is probably what I have to exercise with.... to stay aware all the time and not allow myself to drift of.

    After it was over and I did the protecting again, I felt energised and kind of... pure... free.

    I would love to so this again some time.

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    Default Re: The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs

    An astral self living separately from, or somehow in parallel with, your own life? Could that even be possible?

    And why do many writers refer to the astral body as “the etheric double”? What do they know? Why do they use a term that implies the astral body is in some sense a twin of your physical body but separate from it?

    I suspect many courses on how to astral travel are based on the assumption that astral travel occurs only in or on the edges of dreams; and that in some way it is nothing more than dreaming that has been made lucid (which presumably means: converted from unconscious to conscious -- and meanwhile your physical body is lying unconscious in bed! so, in what sense of "conscious" are we talking about?)

    However, as I have mentioned earlier, I have plenty of experience of, say, “hovering” OB for very long periods while awake and even while doing certain everyday activities.

    I also described, in post #103 of the “Breatharianism…” thread, how at sixteen I discovered I was constantly being watched in the most detailed way every moment. And how by the age of nineteen I had confirmed that that “watcher”, which had sometimes seemed separate from me, actually was me, even though in a certain sense it lived a separate life. Even though, as it (mistakenly) seemed to me at first, all it apparently did all the time was watch.

    So, I’d like to confirm that my experience since the age of nineteen has been that there are constantly and continually at least two levels of experience, one of them bodily and the other kind of hovering outside the body. The latter level sure takes away the boredom value out of almost any situation, because it’s in many ways a happier and bigger point of view. I suspect that in my own case there has been some amount of integration between the two “selves”. So, they’re not at odds with each other, even though they often provide different points of view.

    As AwakeInADream so wisely says in post #108, spirituality is ultimately all about the integration of different aspects of our selves and of life. But before we can integrate separate areas, we first need to know for sure that they even exist. And that, I believe, is where astral travel comes in. Then, hopefully, that can be expanded into an appreciation and experience of OB being that starts to integrate with ordinary waking consciousness.

    Incidentally, the exercise described in post #24 provides one way in which everybody can fully experience an OB state, if only for seconds, while remaining fully awake.
    Last edited by TraineeHuman; 26th December 2012 at 07:04.

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    Default Re: The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs

    Let’s suppose you accept my claim that I experience two “selves”, one OB and one of the conventional kind, that has a first name and surname. It’s an interesting exercise to try to list some characteristics of each of these selves.

    I won’t list anything about the conventional self. Knowing thyself, observing thyself, and in very great detail, is fundamental to spirituality as I understand it.

    What can we say for sure about the OB self? One thing is that it seems to watch and record everything that happens, in a non-judgmental fashion. That’s one of a number of qualities it has in common with the subconscious. It is different from the subconscious, but maybe it’s identical with the sum total of the more positive areas of the subconscious – the areas that aren’t connected with the scars we carry from our past.

    Another thing we can say is that it seems to lack many of the qualities of solidity, of matter. It’s a “free spirit” – well, of course it is, because it is spirit. It seems to me it’s not clear in what ways it has boundaries. Certainly, there’s a strong feeling about it of expansiveness. Like electricity or the wind, it seems to be waiting to go anywhere, be anything. Indeed, even the English word “spirit” comes from the Latin word for “breath”. Breath is also thought of as what keeps us alive, so it seems to be whatever it is that gives life to the biochemical robot we know as our body.

    I’d certainly welcome reading any thoughts or suggestions or experiences anyone has regarding this.

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    Default Re: The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs

    A shortcut to experiencing both your selves, the OB and the conventional, is the following exercise. I’m extremely interested to hear if anybody can learn to do this who isn’t an experienced meditator, or a professional in the arts or sports or some other creative field (who has therefore learnt how to work fluently with their intuition). Anybody who tries and fails -- please feel free to share what you experience.

    The exercise – which was invented by the late Barry Long -- has two stages. The first stage is what Tolle calls “feeling the aliveness”.

    As Barry described it, the first stage involves firstly getting yourself grounded. (There are many ways to get rounded. One simple way is to sit with your thumb touching your belly button and your hand flat against your belly in such a way that the palm of your hand is over your center of gravity, your second chakra.)

    Secondly, ask yourself how it really feels simply to be alive. Tune into that feeling. If you are calm and grounded, it will at the very least be a feeling of OK-ness, if not of profound and peaceful joy.

    Once you have gotten used to the first stage, the second stage is to allow that good feeling inside all of you to spread all around you, filling the room you are in. Remember, in post #102 I mentioned how the astral body is really the inner “body”. This exercise involves being aware of that “body” as lying both outside of your physical body and also, at the same time, inside of your physical body, where it always can be found. In other words, it involves expanding your astral body so that you can feel its goodness not only inside but all around you.

    I suggest this is an ingenious exercise because it is based on asking the simplest and most basic of all questions, namely, how does it truly, deeply feel just to be alive? Because of the simplicity of that question, the question takes you straight to the core of what Buddhists call your Buddha nature, i.e. your true nature.
    Last edited by TraineeHuman; 27th December 2012 at 09:22.

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    Default Re: The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs

    Quote Posted by TraineeHuman (here)
    Deneon has asked me for comments about what he describes in his recent posts in the The Secret of the Soul thread (posts #65 and #67 there). Deneon asks some great questions, so I’d like to respond to some of his questions here.
    Thank you so much for your comments. Christmas celebrations prevented me from replying quicker.

    Quote One piece of up front disclosure about my biases first. I guess after I had learnt to astral travel regularly at nights for a few years, my “astral travel” balloon got pricked somewhat because I had a spiritual teacher and psychotherapist who insisted that the only OB travel I would do, if I was at all smart and well-informed, would never involve using some kind of “astral body” or “higher body” to travel in. Some years later I would understand that basically he was ever so right on this point, and why. So, that’s part of the reason why I feel I wouldn’t be faithful to any reader without at least trying to give them constant hints of why travel without any “body” is better and is also eventually do-able for every one of you.
    I haven’t been consciously out of body yet. I believe you when you say this is the way we should eventually learn how to travel. But do you think it’s possible, or wise, to completely skip the ’step’ where you have a visible energy body? I for one would like to consciously see myself in an astral body, while I see my physical body lying in my bed. I would imagine this is a necessary experience, before even beginning to think about travelling without a body. Of course, I could be wrong.

    Quote One general comment I would make about Deneon is that this – OB travel -- is something that he obviously has a true passion for. When just looking at or thinking about a subject brings up such a great well of energy inside you that you can’t even sleep, that’s what I call a true passion. It’s always invariably something you have a great talent for and were meant to do, extremely well. It would be great if everybody could find such a level of passion for this particular subject, because it’s so important. Also because it takes months or years of work to master this.

    Secondly, this Deneon guy can actually feel lots of energy in his feet and throughout his legs. That’s impressive, because the great majority of people can’t. Moreover, my private benchmark for whether or not somebody is a natural psychic healer is whether or not they can feel at least some tiny trickle of life energy flowing out of their feet, at least when they attempt to do some psychic healing. My second benchmark is can they feel the faintest shiver along their spine in such a situation? Again, not a problem for this guy. So, Deneon, you already naturally happen to have certain energies and skills released inside you which take you well out of the “beginner” box in my book. By the way, Deneon, whyever order a blood test when you’re more truly normal or natural than most?
    It’s true that I really want to experience being out-of-body. This is only because I am done ’believing’ everything to be true. I want to KNOW. I have always had a fascination about UFOs and ETs. Spirits, ghosts, life after death, were all things I did not believe in. But there came a point in my UFO research where I just couldn’t separate the (what I thought to be purely physical) UFO phenomenon from the spiritual side of life.

    I am flattered that you would already take me out of the beginner box. Unfortunately, that’s not the way I see it. I have been feeling these energies for just over a week now. I have never felt anything like it before. I don’t know what to do with them either. I find it hard to explain why I got these tinglings in my feet, the very first time I actually try ’something spiritual’. I know some people try for years and years without feeling anything. It almost makes me feel guilty. Why would someone who has dismissed anything related to spirituality for his entire life, suddenly be ’rewarded’ with these energy sensations? I still feel them, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Why do I still feel them? Has something been permanently ’opened’ in me? I have discarded the blood test by the way. I was only worried about disease the first day I felt these sensations. I realize now that worrying about diabetes or whatever was silly.

    I have been reading more about life energy, chakras and so on than about OBE in the last few days. This is all very new to me. Somehow I feel I need to control this first, before I really want to try to consiously go out of body. I have trouble sleeping, because it just feels as if there is too much energy in me to go to sleep. The sensations are always more intense at night, even if I do not think about them at all. It’s hard to explain, but the area around my heart then often feels as if it is shaking a little. I know this is not ’the vibrations’, its slower and less intense than that. Also it lasts for hours. It also feels like my hands and arms are shaking along. It’s almost like when you’re very cold, only you’re not. I noticed I actually sweat alot during sleep this past week, and I have no idea why (very bad dream recall, still). I don’t know if this is true, but to me it feels als if there is more energy coming into my body than flowing out and that’s why I can’t seem to fall asleep.

    Last night I decided to try to bring on these sensations (and ultimately, the ’vibrations’, when I went to bed. It took a while longer than before, but after a while I felt these waves of energy go through me again. There is a lot less fear than in the beginning, which makes me happy. Apparantly I’m getting used to these sensations and that literally puts a smile on my face. I tried affirmations for a while (’now I’m out of body’). While sometimes the sensations seeem to increase after this, I never actually went out of body. Anyway, after a while it became apparent that it wouldn’t go any further and I decided to go to sleep.

    ’Decided to go to sleep’. That’s what I read in the books. Boy do I want to know how these guys just ’decide’ to call it quits for the night and go to sleep. I really can’t. For hours on end I would feel these energies inside me that make it literally impossible to sleep. What happened to me before and what happened now again is that when I finally feel myself drifting off, I can see dream imagirey coming in, I just become 100% awake straight away with a surge of energy. A really BIG surge. This would be a time where one would ’expect’ the vibrations coming on, according to Buhlman. While I don’t believe I have felt the vibrations, the energy sensations were at times really, really strong, like I haven’t felt before. I also hear something in my ear at times, what I can only describe as chopper rotors. Only they are faster and way off in the distance. So everytime this happened I tried to float out of my body. I tried rolling out, I tried pulling myself out by an imaginary rope. Nothing worked. I tried about 10 times. Can you imagine that this gets old fast, if you actually want to fall asleep? This is the main reason why I am hesitant to ’work’ on going OBE every night. I need sleep.

    A couple of thoughts:

    Yesterday during one of the times I ’woke’ up (I was never completely asleep) I felt my brow area tingle. When I tried to ’see’ with my third eye it became more intense. I didn’t actually ’see’ anything (except the kadeiloscope like imagery of light and dark) but this was the first time I think I felt my third eye.

    Also, the feeling I have in my feet and lower legs also seem to be present in my hands since last night. Is it possible that something has been permanently opened in my hands as well? And should I try and open more energy centers like this? If someone has their heart chakra opened for example, will they feel it all day long?

    Quote Next, one idea I’d like to throw in here is something invented by the late Barry Long. (Eckhart Tolle and I were both at some stage students of Barry. Tolle uses the same concept, as far as I’ve read with essentially the same meaning.) I’m referring to “the inner body”. One way Barry described this was to say you can think of it as everything that’s inside you. And that when you die, the shape of all everything you can feel inside you stays exactly the same, and that’s exactly what lives on.

    The point here is that “the inner body” is the same exact thing as the astral body, pretty much. Only, Barry emphasized how it’s “inside”. That’s one reason why I claim you don’t necessarily need to have “the vibrations” in order to jump OB. Instead, if you can get fully in touch with your true feelings, and with your intuitive instincts, I claim that’s another doorway to the same place. I hope this isn’t confusing the hell out of some people. But what I’m saying is that any way you can get much more real about who and what you really, truly are will get you to the OB place. You are an infinite being – or Being itself, or something even beyond that – playing hide-and-seek with itself and fooling itself into playing small. You extend far beyond your body, to far beyond the most distant star, to beyond eternity. Just be very honest about yourself – like Chester (Justoneman) has recently demonstrated how to be – and bingo! you’re well over halfway there, no vibrations included. I literally don’t often use those vibrations at all. Sometimes I just barely notice them faintly, for a couple of seconds, as I whiz on further. (Not that I’m necessarily an expert on what the problems are that other people may have in learning a different way than mine.)

    Incidentally, the 4D or 5D world may or may not look anything like the physical world we know. Many people – living and dead – find it convenient to create pictures of grass and trees and so forth, but they’re pictures, and not the real thing. You can also “fly” low enough in 4D that you see the physical world, but you also see energy fields around everything that has life, and you see some rather different colors for many things. You also see beings or energies that you won’t find in the physical world.

    Or, you may see scenery and energies that look nothing like the physical world. I’m sure we’ve all seen at least a glimpse of these in some nightmare we had some time when we were ill.
    Unfortunately, this is confusing the hell out of me I'm still learning of course, but the whole concept of travelling somewhere with your inner body, instead of an astral body, sounds very difficult. Maybe some day I will know exactly what you mean. I haven't read anything by the authors you mention. So many books, so little time. I do find the story about justoneman fascinating. He was stuck at work all day, yet you saw his astral body / projection in the meetup place. Like you say this seems to suggest there are multiple 'versions' of oneself. This is hard to wrap your mind around, but very interesting.

    One questions: Lower 4D seems to be a duplicate of the physical world, but not actually the physical world, if I understand it correctly. One experiment by Buhlman for example: He blew out a lighted candle in his home when he was out of body, but when he woke up the candle was still burning in the physical world. Also, some details of the room are different (different coffeetable or color of the curtains) in the astral than they are in the physical, even though they see the people in 4D, where they are at that time in 3D. How is this possible when it's just a duplicate and not actually the physical world?

    Quote Next, Deneon, it sounds to me like the tingling sensation you feel probably is indeed precisely “the vibrations”. It’s not such a big deal. It’s your life-energy moving through you. You just need to get comfortable with using energy more powerfully and still feeling OK about it and not like you’ve gone bananas. The more practice you can get at this the better.

    You can also bring life-energy sensations on by doing something like walking q’i gong, or probably through learning how to do t’ai chi.

    As far as I understand, while you’re OB your physical body still feels things. It doesn’t get totally blanked out. (Until the day when you die, your consciousness isn’t going to let go of looking after that physical body, even if it directs lots of its attention elsewhere when you’re OB.) That’s why I suspect when you experienced becoming a giant you actually were either flipping in and out or you were OB for most of that time.
    I am quite sure they are not the vibrations. I have explained above why I think so. Will read more about bringing on the life-energy sensations, thanks

    I actually hope I have not yet been out of body, because I want to be 100% aware of it when it happens.

    Quote I’ll pause here, Deneon, to give Jake a chance to reply to your further comments before I continue with mine.
    He has decided to leave the forum. See this thread. Let's hope he decides to come back.

    Thanks again for everything you do post here. I always read and think about all of your posts, even though I do not have the experience to understand all of it.
    Last edited by Deneon; 27th December 2012 at 11:43. Reason: spelling

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    Germany Avalon Member Reinhard's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs

    Thank you TH for all your support. I participated in the exercise, following your suggestions. It was a great experience to me, although I didn't have a distinct feeling of being part of a group....there definately was a sensation of 'energy waves', starting at my feet and going through the whole body. It 'felt good' to send healing energy to my loved ones.

    Ever since I started focussing on OBE about 3 months ago (following Another Bob's and sirdipswitch's impulses), I have been wondering about the parallelity (is that an English word?) and --- subconscious --- interconnectedness of 'normal / wake' life and the astral. In my case, I have the impression, that the wall between those layers is still too thick. Even so, I'm convinced that TH's visits helped me in that regard. My goal is not to totally tear down the wall , but to transform it into some type of membrane......semi-permeability comes to mind...

    Thanks again for your help, TH and my fellow OBE friends.
    The very moment the caterpillar thought the world would end, it turned into a butterfly.
    Laotse

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    United States Avalon Member Sammy's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs

    Two days ago I had a horrific personal experience. The details are not important. I was assigned a task at work late Tuesday, December 18th. On that day i was in the midst of an extremely nasty cold which seemed unrelated to the extremely nasty flu I had just gone through the week before (something I thought was quite odd).

    The task had to be completed sometime on the 23rd of December and sent upstairs for the #2 person to review. At exactly 12:01 Dec 25th my time the project was to be launched with a public announcement through an online forum that is an industry watchdog.

    I had never done a project of this nature with more heart and effort and intention to produce the very best desired result. I felt great about the final output I generated.

    I had the post loaded up at 11:55 PM on Dec 24th and was all set to push the button. I was extremely exhausted as I had worked well over 11 solid hours a day for 8 straight days and also performed all my other normal responsibilities. The old Chester said... “push the button buddy, no one will care it is a few minutes early... “Come on dude, you don’t have to be that freaking perfect all the time.”
    But then my own primary voice said, “Wait... you have done a great job and the post will indeed have a post time stamp – just wait the few more minutes,” and I did.

    At 11:57 I got a call from #3 and #3’s voice did not sound good. I was told – “don’t post.” I asked why and #3 told me “your list was ****.” I said WTF!?! #3 repeated the words and I asked who told #3 that.

    I called the #1 and I was blasted. Literally blasted and in the hugest way. Yes, my ego was crushed, but it went far deeper than ego as I know I did the absolute best job I could possibly have done and yet this was the perception of the #1 and I have no doubt it all came from #2.

    I was extremely, emotionally devastated.

    I could not sleep at all and had to be in the office at 8:00 AM and was totally exhausted.

    Not being able to sleep i decided to go onto the Avalon Forum. I went to the Horus-Ra thread and discovered a post that essentially painted the picture that the experiences some of us have had with other dimensional entities was simply illnesses within our own individual minds and had no foundation in actual reality and could not be proved.

    This post is from someone who has had amazing personal experiences in the “astral” and actually has spent two generations performing “rescue work” in the astral realm. He has, admittedly, been in contact and received the attention of one of the most respected and renowned “ascended masters” and I doubt you will find a more loving and wonderful human being on earth today.

    And yet, his view essentially insinuates that my experiences (much less all the others who have had first hand encounters with alien beings, extra dimensional beings, etc is simply and only delusions within the mind of the individual perceiver.

    This post was quite devastating to me and for this reason.

    Many of us on earth today that have had these experiences are seeking a better world for our children. When an individual with the stature of the one who made the post takes the position our experiences are simply delusions of our own (and with an implication – sick and/or delusional) minds because

    a.) he has not had these types of experiences and he perceives himself an authority on the matter

    b.) because his ascended master friend and all the other Spirit beings he has encountered have influenced his thinking that there could not possibly be more to the story than what he has concluded and

    c.) that none of us can prove to him with enough evidence of proof that he would agree is valid proof that our experiences are more (and in my opinion far, far more) than just simple creations within our own, individual minds.

    So eventually I was able to go to sleep – around 2:30 or 3:00 AM.

    I had the most incredible lucid dream. I dreamed I was on a planet where the ground all around us was caving in. water was rushing over the land that was collapsing. I could tell i was with many people and yet I was definitely worried about myself. I did not perceive any specific loved ones yet i was with others I knew and cared about. We were all running to buildings and places where we thought we could be safe. The ground was actually swarming. At the end of the dream (just before I did what i always do when i have a dream I begin to not like – which is to intentionally wake myself up), the ground had collapsed all around a small piece of land which had a small building which I and others were in. I saw the last stages of ground just outside the window falling in and the water rushing over it. I knew the next thing that could happen was that the ground holding up this small building would collapse. That is when I woke myself up.

    At the moment of awakening, as opposed to prior to my joining Avalon where I would be in a pretty deep state of shock, I was instantly analytical about this lucid dream experience. It was truly amazing. I did not do like some folks have done, where I consider my astral/dream experience might be a foretelling of the future of mankind. Instead I realized I had it in the context of the experiences I just endured in my waking state. Two HUGE devastating experiences for me personally that I experienced just before sleep... and then this incredible “dream” where I lucidly participated.

    These are the types of experiences I have from which I draw a greater understanding as to “what” I might be. It is not about the “who” – it is about the “what.”

    And the “what I am” is subject to various experiences and they all tie together into a single, ongoing experience at various levels of the “who” I am’s experience.

    physical

    mental

    emotional

    out of the Physical

    at my soul level

    at the level of my spirit

    at the level of Spirit

    These Seven components to my being is what I, personally, break my experience down to. I do not suggest that anyone share my view. Note, this is the breakdown I perceive today.

    I do not attribute this view to any specific experience or encounter I have had with any type of “ascended” being nor Great Teacher, or DK, or divinely appointed “master”... not to a Jesus Christ, or Lucifer or Satan or any other “personality” we might want to come up with.

    It is my own self-generated map and it is a map I use to navigate my experience today. Plain and simple and guess what? I could change my view of the map.

    Anyways – I had to post this here as definitely it includes an amazing and wonderful (yes wonderful OBE experience).

    Why did I “enjoy” what appears to have been a nightmare? Because I no longer doubt at all whatsoever that whatever of me is real is also safe and can never, ever be threatened. This allows me to have any type of experience with essentially zero fear.

    I do not care if anyone believes that I have achieved this state of being, but I have. If you were one of my personal friends, you would say, “Yep, Chester... I know you are crazy that way... but dude, please keep your feet on the ground, ok?”

    I appreciate and love Ya’ll... Chester


    Ohhh I had a massive lucid dream last night with George W. Bush... I will post the details of this dream next post - I have been awake for 1.5 hours and the details are still vividly etched in my mind. Cheers, Chester

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    Default Re: The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs

    My dream with George W. Bush at around 7:00 AM US Central Time today, December 27th, 2012.

    I found myself in a home. The home had several rooms. I was in the home because I was welcomed there. It was a large home that appeared to have only one floor. I entered a room and there was George W. Bush. We had some type of exchange... a communication of sorts but without words. I recall feeling I belonged there, I recall feeling that I am trusted and I recall having that feeling like a young soldier might when he is called in by some general to be asked to perform some special type of duty... the dream then shifted to where I was in the doorway of a room that had several men in it... about 5, maybe 6. One was George W. Bush. They all were basically standing in a row about 10 feet in front of me with George W. Bush one of the guys in the center. None of the other men were anyone I might know and I got the feeling these men were part of a team and that they were intentionally unknown to the popular world.

    I had the feeling i was asked to meet my team mates.

    Strangely the next thing I knew I was driving an old, blue station wagon. I knew th car was given to me by this team. I was on what i believe was Central Expressway in Dallas Texas heading south. I recall having this fantastic feeling that finally, I was asked officially to join the team and begin performing my missions. I had zero clue what those missions might be and well, in fact... I had the strange feeling that I am actually doing my mission right now in my real, waking life... simply being me and doing what i do every day in my life which includes these strange postings I make which are all and only about my own personal experience, the conclusions I draw from them and the view points I explore and most importantly, how I allow my opinions, conclusions and view points to change (the key reason I am honored to be invited as a part of this team).

    There is zero "steerage" or apparent mind control related to any of this. I am given zero instructions. All I feel I gain from these encounters as confidence that i am not alone, confidence that I have the support of some very interesting people at their deeper levels of their being and I am aware that I am very, very happy about this.

    Strangely as well, I feel zero wrong about my posting about all this. I suspect some here will conclude I am a mind controlled MK Ultra and that I work for the Rockefeller/Bush/Nazi clan and that I am a "bad guy."

    Maybe I am.

    Maybe I am delusional and all this is simply machinations of a deranged mind - realize I have been in well over a dozen mental facilities (mostly when I was young) but still - I could just be totally and completely crazy haha.

    I have no idea how to interpret these experiences but what I do know now is that I am going to begin to post all my strange psi experiences that relate specifically to George W. Bush which will point out why I think just about everyone on this planet has the wrong idea about him (as well as his Dad).

    I am certain this will all make me the most unpopular guy on the forum and very possibly might get me banned BUT, I hope I am allowed to make these posts as I am truly, only being honest, sharing actual experiences and positing my own conclusions.

    And note, if I were aligned with anyone where being loyal to them required me to compromise upholding my own extremely rigid personal standards, then i would likely exit the team. I may then just retire and shut my mouth and if I am allowed to live, would inter into a focusing on my close family, perhaps some writings I might attempt to publish with regards to metaphysics and lastly, the metaphysical phase of my own bodily death.

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    Default Re: The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs

    Chester: A way to take the edge off all suffering, a smarter and shorter way – is that even possible? Well, as I understand it, a central idea of Christianity is that Jesus supposedly left us with such a way. Ditto regarding Buddhism and the Buddha, and so on. So, where is it?? Does such a thing exist?

    May I dare suggest that the exercise described in post #114 may indeed be precisely one such way? Accessible not just to you and me, Chester, but to every serious intelligent person. Ideas of genius are always very simple. So simple that people may miss taking them seriously altogether.

    On the one hand, the fact that you felt so depressed at being criticized was good to the extent that it proves you’re extraordinarily committed to searching for the truth. But let me explain why anyone who has even begun to be able to do stage two of the exercise in post #114 -- just a tiny bit sometimes – wouldn’t be capable of feeling very depressed ever again. Aren’t you perhaps ripe to move to that stage by now, Chester?

    The word “suffer” comes from the Latin roots “sub” and “fer”, and literally means “carry underneath”. But where is “underneath”?

    To cut along story short. let me just state that "underneath" is in the 3D body. The point is, your “other” body or self is very detached, and if something happens that would be very hurtful to your conventional self, the “other” self immediately has a very different viewpoint. Being much more detached and less judgmental, it immediately conveys to you a way to see the situation so that it stings far, far less. Because the “other” body does get hurt far, far less.

    It seems to me this fits very well with Jesus’ declarations of replacing all your burdens with ones much easier and lighter. Ditto, again, the Buddha. I could go on and on for pages explaining how so many centrally important sayings of Jesus, and also the Buddha, fit in with this so tightly. But they don't seem to fit in at all with the actual practice of most Christians and of many Buddhists.

    Chester, you mentioned how you got trapped in suffering through smoking weed. As far as I understand, that substance in most cases puts a person into the lower astral world not only without protection but without full control, and therefore as a victim. That’s not a recommended way to go OB.

    We come into this world of suffering to learn about polarities and extremes. But it was never meant to be such a trap. You don’t need to run over a child in order to learn the lesson that it’s important to drive safely. You don’t need to become a drug addict or alcoholic to understand that drugs or alcohol are potentially very dangerous. Instead, I suggest we were meant to learn how to make any emotional burden light, in a rather simple way.

    Even if at first you can only do stage one of the exercise at #114 for brief periods, just keep doing it every time you’re reminded, providing your commitments leave you free to do it at that time.

    I have more comments in response to Justoneman, and also in response to Deneon, Reinhard, and Wakytweaky. But till then I’ll be busy for about a day.
    Last edited by TraineeHuman; 28th December 2012 at 04:47.

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    Default Re: The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs

    Deneon,

    May I suggest that the “inner body” is the same thing as the astral body. You’ll notice that the astral body goes out of body, which means, surely, that it must have been inside the body before it went traveling. Or what other explanation is there? It gets manufactured on the spot at exit? Similarly, at the end of the traveling it has to return back into the physical body. (Or into where?) Once it has returned, wouldn’t you agree it might perhaps be reasonable to refer to it as “inner”? Otherwise, where exactly do you suppose it goes at the end of each journey? Is it not more reasonable to suppose it remains intact, rather than somehow dissolving, or somehow mysteriously merging in a split-second with something else?

    It’s a pity Jake has left the Forum. From having visited with him OB, I know for a fact that he seemed to be extraordinarily free of complaining, or he was just very unwilling to fall into the trap of complaining. I also experienced him OB as being a very mature individual. My problem is, it’s decades ago since I used to go astral traveling (in the traditional way) with any regularity at all. Plus I’ve been moving on year after year and replacing one technique of “spirituality” with whatever I found seemed to work better, or be faster. Also, you go through a learning phase and then some things become second nature and then it’s hard for you to work out how you do that thing. Like, tell me exactly how do you drive a car, assuming I’m a beginner at that. These days, I often notice The Vibrations very faintly for about two seconds as I whiz by, but when they‘re that faint I often don’t notice them at all.

    So, half the time I’m racking my brains to remember exactly what in the world sorts of things I was doing and experiencing three or four decades ago. Apart from, that many decades ago, walking into traps in the workplace and in sexual and other relationships, spending half my waking hours learning skills or whatever in meditation or personal growth, and seeming ridiculously detached to some people who knew me. But in answer to your question of do I think it’s better for you to consider learning OB traveling without using any “body” to travel in, my honest answer today would be, probably yes. One thing that’s been happening in the course of this thread has been that I’ve been looking carefully at the whole traditional understanding of astral travel and the more I look, the more things about it there are that seem to involve so much unnecessary effort and a lot of hit-and-miss.

    When I started this thread I hadn’t planned to keep going for so long. But I was surprised by what I found (OB) to be the quality of each of the (few) members who were seriously following the thread. Also, I’ve found it useful as a tool of self-enquiry – because as we know, of course, “spirituality” involves continually exploring the question of “Who am I?” I guess what an internet forum primarily does is provide information, and points of view (and jokes or whatever) belonging to real people, plus discussion, the purpose of which is mostly to assist a person through a change of their point of view or to make a choice or decision. I’m doing the best that I can already to try to help or persuade you to decide to go for traveling without any “body”, plus info about various basics that I see this as involving. Even if I don’t always specifically say “this is one of those basics”. If you don’t find that convincing or helpful enough, fine. It’s up to you. So far, enough individuals have said they’re appreciating my thoughts or insights or views that at the moment it feels quite fun to keep going. And I guess I’m hoping that the penny may drop if I just keep talking further.

    Maybe most of you folk need to find a very experienced teacher who lives in your area? After all, the man who taught me to astral travel in my sleep after he had died was very wise and very experienced, in astral travel among many other things. He was mentoring all the members of the TM Centre in my city, that being maybe the most popular form of meditation in my city at that time. Then there was the lady in her eighties who ran the psychic development classes where she would “lift” the whole group into the astral in a second, no vibrations included. I mean, she said it was decades since she had bothered to watch any movies or TV, because she got much more interesting pictures more directly, in her consciousness. It’s been less than a decade since I’ve similarly come to find all movies and almost anything on TV too uninteresting to bother with. So, how far ahead of me was she, in this field? But beware of the false teachers, or the ones who are con artists or egotists or gold collectors.

    Also, there’s the kind of exotic factor that gives the whole idea of astral travel great appeal to some. For me it’s not about being exotic for the sake of exotic, at all. It’s about getting as close as you can to a permanent freedom from suffering – if you’ll even concede that such a thing is possible. By the way, if you really do want exotic, in my experience absolutely nothing, in or beyond the multiverse, holds a candle to what you can get when traveling without any “body”.

    Deneon, you say you’re a beginner but I remain totally unconvinced you’re not a natural in various important respects. I guess it takes time, though, to get more comfortable with the notion that maybe you really are a natural.

    I’ll make another post in a few days addressing some of the other specific points you have made or questions you are asking, Deneon.

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