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Thread: The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs

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    Default Re: The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs

    I did the Christos Experiment (post#10) over and over last night (for over an hour) and whilst I didn't 'see' anything,
    I did get the sense of what it felt like to inhabit all sorts of different bodies which was a great experience.
    (In one of these bodies I could feel the shape of my head was very different from the one I have now
    and I didn't seem to have much of a neck)

    This brings up a question:

    Should I to some degree whilst doing this experiment, trust my inner imaginative vision even if it isn't lucid?

    EDIT: I mirror JustOneMan's sentiments and out of respect for this thread
    I will not bring up a certain subject again whilst here.
    Last edited by AwakeInADream; 30th December 2012 at 18:51.

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    Default Re: The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs

    Quote Posted by TraineeHuman (here)
    Quote Posted by lookbeyond (here)
    Hi TH, my Mother visited me approx 3 months after she had passed over.She touched my cheek as i was falling asleep and i recognised her "essence" then felt her pass into me as pure love.My question is if when we travel OB and are OB as hav passed, if we are then without personality/individuality, how is it i knew this was her ?
    Hi again, lookbeyond. Thank you for bringing up another very good question.

    Your personality is really just an electromagnetic field, but the real you is something quite other than that. (Thoughts are, physically speaking, electric or electrochemical currents. Feelings, physically, are just magnetizations.) When we die we don’t lose our essence or most of our uniqueness, any more than we could do so when/if we travel OB.

    When Paracelsus re-stated the ancient principle of “as above, so below,” let me emphasize he (like the ancients before him) didn’t mean to imply it was generally true that “as below, so above”. He and others did, however, mention how the microcosm is an inferior type of copy of the macrocosm, but they stressed it is a very imperfect and highly incomplete and inadequate “copy”. But the primary point is, what lies above is and lives prior to, and in general control of, what is below.

    Whatever or whoever lies above – they are able to focus on controlling some specific energy and thereby brush against a physical cheek. And yes, you very accurately observe that your mother then went inside you – because the “inner body”, like everything that is higher, lies inside.

    I would say it’s more miraculous and astonishing that we infinite beings allow ourselves to squeeze into finite bodies and a world packed full of limitations. The infinite made finite, and without losing infinite significance – to me that’s the miracle. Not the fact that dead people, who are a big step back towards infinity, with a little hard work can physically brush their child’s cheek. And they do that just to remind one in an unforgettable way that underneath everything else, all that mattered was simply love and understanding.


    Thankyou TraineeHuman, for such a beautiful and comprehensive explanation,

    love lookbeyond

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  5. Link to Post #143
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    Default Re: The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs

    Quote Posted by AwakeInADream (here)
    Is there a particular method or exercise by which we can meet our spirit guides or guardian angels in an OBE?

    Or a way by which our guides/angels can even help us to have an OBE?

    I've just re-done the exercise in post 24# and asked my higher self these questions,
    and what I saw was something like this:


    I haven't got a clue what that might mean
    AwakeInADream, I’d like to share some of my experience of the interpreting of symbols such as come up in the exercise in post #24. This is also based on my experience of working with other people to facilitate their accurate interpreting. Equally, I have found the same principles apply when it comes to interpreting any dream, whether the dream was mine or another person’s.

    I have to confess I haven’t read most of the many posts there seem to be on the Forum regarding dreams, either now or in the past. So my remarks aren’t trying to target anybody in particular. They’re just stating what I and others with psychic and OB skills have over the years found to be correct principles.

    One principle is that a dream is about the dreamer’s own psyche. Any supposed information in the dream is valid only relative to the dreamer’s own subjective world. I appreciate that some extremely rare individuals such as Nostradamus had “dreams” – well, actually they had visions, which are something different – that contained at least some accurate information for humanity as a whole. But to even begin to do that, you would need to have reached, or almost reached, a level of enlightenment where you do really see yourself as being, or being at all times totally one with, humanity in general. Not only that, you would need some expert psychic skills that had been refined through lengthy practice.

    I have had some visions, but on a personal level, not the level of all humanity. They occurred while I was very much awake, and although they were OB experiences they were far more clear and precise and vivid than normal waking life. I also suspect that some of Justoneman’s dreams about communicating with famous people have at least a touch of personal visions about them.

    But let’s get back to your question that you used the exercise in post #24 for. I’ve never known anyone to be confused by the answer their subconscious gave them when doing this exercise. So, I’m afraid I'd like to question that the immediate answer you got was, precisely, that photo. I strongly suspect that you let your clever mind interpret the actual answer, and that it decided, in its “wisdom”, that that answer looked like that photo.

    This would seem to me to be missing the whole point of keeping your mind blank for a full thirty seconds. The whole reason for doing that was to minimize its interference, if only for a split second just as the answer came through. Understanding the messages coming from your dreams or your subconscious symbols (or your Higher Self) is all about getting away from all conceptual interpreting. Yet your approach seems to be to invite precisely that. There is an endless number of false paths your conceptual mind can lead you down in this situation. All of them based in some way and degree on your neuroses, your ego, your conditioning, but not on truth or reality, I'm afraid.

    If I'm being quite unfair and you truly didn’t have the slightest notion of what the answer you got meant for you in your life now, then what you needed to do was to ask a second question, regarding what is the meaning of the answer you just got. But you would need to really shut that mind up, and instead just listen to the sounds of silence.

    A second question would be to ask why the meaning of the answer was being blocked -- I would suggest by you,or your ego, that is.
    Last edited by TraineeHuman; 31st December 2012 at 01:55.

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    Default Re: The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs

    Thank's TH
    I didn't see the exact photo, just a small creature with big eyes. The eyes were a little bigger than that in the photo.
    I had no idea what sort of animal it even was so I had to Google images for a while to find out.
    If I'd have thought about it a little longer I suppose I could have figured out that big eyes were a symbol of awareness like you said,
    but I was too curious about what the animal may be at first, maybe the ego was sending me down the wrong path as an act of self sabotage.
    I'm too excitable sometimes, I should spend more quiet time in contemplation after the exercise, silence is golden.

    Great advice about doing the exercise twice in order to illucidate the first symbol!
    It might even be fun and instructive to do this many times in a row.

    May I ask is it O.K. to count for 30 seconds during this exercise, or is it better to estimate the time?

    Thank's for your detailed response!

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  9. Link to Post #145
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    Default Re: The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs

    Quote Posted by AwakeInADream (here)

    Should I to some degree whilst doing this experiment, trust my inner imaginative vision even if it isn't lucid?
    If you’re truly grounded at the time, and you truly can hold your conceptualizing mind off (like “turn the volume down” on anything it’s saying), and you raise your level of consciousness (e.g. through a little meditating), then your imaginative vision will tell you the truth. Or, at least, a nearer approximation to the truth than you’ll get otherwise. That’s how geniuses do their work.

    At the moment I’m afraid I don’t know what “lucid” means. Yes, I have had plenty of experiences of believing I was “waking up” in the middle of a dream, for instance. But even at the moment I seemed to “wake up”, how do I know I wasn’t dreaming that I woke up? And how do I know that my memories of such airy-fairy things are accurate anyway? So much of “lucidity” depends on accuracy of memory. But since it all concerns things within a dream, how do I know it wasn’t fantasy-memory?

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    Default Re: The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs

    Quote Posted by AwakeInADream (here)
    Thank's TH
    ... is it O.K. to count for 30 seconds during this exercise [from post #24], or is it better to estimate the time?
    Counting would tend to bring in the conceptual mind, and it's a little robotic. Better to estimate. But the first few times, have a clock handy that you can very quickly glance at when you think 30 seconds is up.

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    Default Re: The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs

    Here’s my response to several of Deneon’s issues.

    Quote … do you think it’s possible, or wise, to completely skip the ’step’ where you have a visible energy body? I for one would like to consciously see myself in an astral body, while I see my physical body lying in my bed. I would imagine this is a necessary experience, before even beginning to think about travelling without a body...
    As far as I’m aware, Deneon, astral travelers usually don’t get to see their astral body. And if they do, it usually looks like a white (or maybe gold) light – at least in my experiences of astral traveling. I would also only on occasion get to see my physical body lying in bed.

    But one important point here is that the only way you (believe you) know you’re OB traveling is because you see scenery, or a “movie” of pictures, that would be impossibly abnormal in the physical world. And you don’t need any kind of “body” to see that scenery or “movie”. You only need awareness, or mind.

    Quote I have been feeling these energies for just over a week now… I find it hard to explain why I got these tinglings in my feet, the very first time I actually try ’something spiritual’… I still feel them, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Why do I still feel them? Has something been permanently ’opened’ in me?
    The only explanation I can come up with is that you’re a natural.

    Quote I have trouble sleeping, because it just feels as if there is too much energy in me to go to sleep. The sensations are always more intense at night, even if I do not think about them at all. It’s hard to explain, but the area around my heart then often feels as if it is shaking a little. I know this is not ’the vibrations’, its slower and less intense than that. Also it lasts for hours. It also feels like my hands and arms are shaking along. It’s almost like when you’re very cold, only you’re not. I noticed I actually sweat a lot during sleep this past week, and I have no idea why ... I don’t know if this is true, but to me it feels as if there is more energy coming into my body than flowing out and that’s why I can’t seem to fall asleep.
    You’ve given a remarkably insightful and accurate description of what anyone who either has their kundalini energy awakened up to their crown chakra, or who is an experienced psychic healer, feels. I’m afraid I think you’d better get used to your body overheating. That happens because you have far more life energy flowing through your body than “normal” people do. That energy produces extra heat as a byproduct.

    In India, it was fairly common in past centuries for masters of kundalini to become epileptic. As far as I’m aware, epilepsy will be brought on if the brain’s neurons become badly dehydrated – as can easily happen if they have strongly awoken their kundalini energy – which is really just the true life-energy. Some kundalini masters in India didn’t get epilepsy because they drank plenty of water throughout the day, usually with a little sea salt added. (Adding a touch of bicarbonate of soda as well is probably even better.)

    I’m afraid this problem seems to afflict everybody I have known who has had fully awakened kundalini energy -- and to a lesser extent if they've had partially awakened kundalini energy You just get used to at times sweating a lot more than 99% of the population. I’ve spent full years sleeping with no pyjamas, no blanket, one or no sheets. At night, and also at unexpected times, or times when you are under pressure for whatever reason. Yes, it is a burden. But far better to carry that burden if it means you are, in a certain sense, more truly fully alive.

    I can’t promise it will get better in the future. However, for the last few years I’ve worn pyjamas in winter and I’ve covered myself with a sheet or a thin blanket for most of the year except mid-summer. But one time, twelve years ago, I had a kundalini teacher who was a genuine master of kundalini energy. She observed that I had a kundalini experience that lasted non-stop for over two weeks. Although much of it felt quite subtle and not a nuisance, this happened in summer, so the sweat got particularly bad that fortnight.

    (By the way, I've seen an awful lot of myth and nonsense on the internet about "kundalini". I'm somebody who has had no choice but to live with it for years, so my info is based on real life experience of myself and of other real individuals.)

    Incidentally, the shaking feeling around your heart, or maybe even feeling like your heart jumped as if you had a mini heart attack, is a common experience early on. I think it's to do with the fact that your heart contains so much electricity in it, and it has something to do with adjusting to the flow of greater life-energy. I wouldn't assume it was a heart problem at all -- but then, it's possible this could be a heart problem, I suppose.

    I'm sorry, but all of the above is the only information I have that seems to fit what you are describing.
    Last edited by TraineeHuman; 31st December 2012 at 10:04.

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    Default Re: The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs

    Central to the teachings of Jesus, the Buddha, and others are certain ideas. I’ve already explained how the idea of greatly lightening all suffering is one such idea, and (in post #119) how the exercise in post #114 achieves this, if it is mastered.

    Incidentally, Chester has indicated that he has other ways to conquer and defuse suffering. Chester, if you can articulate these not in terms of your personal history but in more impersonal terms that everyone can apply, I certainly welcome hearing them here.

    Another idea is that the spiritual life involves a life of the spirit that’s somehow additional to and partly separate from the life of the flesh. Post # 119 explained how the exercise in post #114 activates that life of the spirit. See also posts #113 and #112, which partly explain what spirit is.

    Related to this is the idea of needing a kind of rebirth. To quote a saying attributed to Jesus: “Unless a man [read: person] is born again, he [or she] cannot enter the kingdom of heaven.” Since “the kingdom of heaven is (entirely) within,” it must be the inner body, or else it lies within the inner body – and is its higher part, no doubt. See also post #102.

    Another idea is that of reconciling the rift between the conscious and subconscious minds. In Christianity this seems to mostly come down to “the fall of mankind”. Clearly, the exercise in post #114 is an important step to reducing that rift and creating some reintegration.

    Another idea is that God, or spirit, is at the same time both transcendent, or “out there”, and immanent, or “within you”. How the heck does one reconcile this gigantic contradiction? In practice, most Christians and Muslims and Jews sidestep this by considering God to be transcendent only. But the New Testament contains many statements like: “I live, yet not I, but Christ lives in me.” Notice, though, that the inner body is entirely within you, and yet it also is higher, and at its deepest inner depths it is God.

    I could go on considerably longer. I could also give you the Buddhist, Taoist, Sufi, Vedantist and other versions. But the point is, the exercise in post #114 seems so subtle and obvious that I’m concerned readers may not take it seriously enough, or their minds may dismiss it for being too obvious. And yet, it’s a shortcut to experiencing how any spiritually enlightened person lives. It has to be subtle, because great spiritual power is always by necessity very subtle – and simple.
    Last edited by TraineeHuman; 1st January 2013 at 02:18.

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    Default Re: The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs

    Quote Posted by TraineeHuman (here)
    Let’s suppose you accept my claim that I experience two “selves”, one OB and one of the conventional kind, that has a first name and surname. It’s an interesting exercise to try to list some characteristics of each of these selves.

    I won’t list anything about the conventional self. Knowing thyself, observing thyself, and in very great detail, is fundamental to spirituality as I understand it.

    What can we say for sure about the OB self? One thing is that it seems to watch and record everything that happens, in a non-judgmental fashion. That’s one of a number of qualities it has in common with the subconscious. It is different from the subconscious, but maybe it’s identical with the sum total of the more positive areas of the subconscious – the areas that aren’t connected with the scars we carry from our past.

    Another thing we can say is that it seems to lack many of the qualities of solidity, of matter. It’s a “free spirit” – well, of course it is, because it is spirit. It seems to me it’s not clear in what ways it has boundaries. Certainly, there’s a strong feeling about it of expansiveness. Like electricity or the wind, it seems to be waiting to go anywhere, be anything. Indeed, even the English word “spirit” comes from the Latin word for “breath”. Breath is also thought of as what keeps us alive, so it seems to be whatever it is that gives life to the biochemical robot we know as our body.

    I’d certainly welcome reading any thoughts or suggestions or experiences anyone has regarding this.
    Hi TH, i wonder if this Watcher has anything to do with the commonly reported process experienced in NDEs of total life recall?

    Kind Reguards lb

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    Default Re: The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs

    Quote Posted by lookbeyond (here)

    Hi TH, i wonder if this Watcher has anything to do with the commonly reported process experienced in NDEs of total life recall?
    Good question, lb. What is the point of dreaming, and of life review, is what I see you as asking.

    Each night we all go astral or OB travelling, most of the time not lucidly, but we all still do it. As we do, in a detached way we review everything that happened during the day. And we (or our HS) attempts to resolve it emotionally, partly through our dreaming. As a result we feel emotionally refreshed in the morning, and we can face the challenges of a new day usually feeling on the whole unburdened by yesterday’s dramas or boredoms.

    I’m sure the NDE process is similar, except that, as you imply, the person experiencing it attempts to let go at one stroke of all their history in a physical body, rather than just the last day’s history.

    Interestingly, the spiritual enlightenment process involves a psychological death very similar to the NDE. It's a shame most of us only want to review one day's burdens at a time, until we believe we're compelled by death to do more.
    Last edited by TraineeHuman; 1st January 2013 at 04:07.

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    Default Re: The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs

    Quote Posted by Deneon (here)
    [
    I have been reading more about life energy, chakras and so on than about OBE in the last few days. This is all very new to me. Somehow I feel I need to control this first, before I really want to try to consiously go out of body....


    Yesterday during one of the times I ’woke’ up (I was never completely asleep) I felt my brow area tingle. When I tried to ’see’ with my third eye it became more intense. I didn’t actually ’see’ anything (except the kadeiloscope like imagery of light and dark) but this was the first time I think I felt my third eye.

    Also, the feeling I have in my feet and lower legs also seem to be present in my hands since last night. Is it possible that something has been permanently opened in my hands as well? And should I try and open more energy centers like this? If someone has their heart chakra opened for example, will they feel it all day long?
    In my experience it usually isn't productive to bother about individual chakras at all. Your energy body operates holistically. It's kind of like an orchestra, where the chakras resemble individual instruments. But it's a self-conducting orchestra. Trying to manipulate or worry about any individual chakras tends to interfere with the conductor, and therefore with the whole process. Better to keep it simple.

    Quote Lower 4D seems to be a duplicate of the physical world, but not actually the physical world, if I understand it correctly. One experiment by Buhlman for example: He blew out a lighted candle in his home when he was out of body, but when he woke up the candle was still burning in the physical world. Also, some details of the room are different (different coffeetable or color of the curtains) in the astral than they are in the physical, even though they see the people in 4D, where they are at that time in 3D. How is this possible when it's just a duplicate and not actually the physical world?
    As post #140 may help to explain, if Buhlmann blew out the candle in 4D then its light would at least for a moment have gone weak in 3D. Maybe he needed to blow harder in 4D, or longer, to get it to go out. Energy does flow more readily in 4D.

    Let me again emphasize that many of these skills don't get developed in a short time, so the important thing is to keep at it.

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    Default Re: The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs

    Quote Posted by justoneman (here)
    ... I went to the Horus-Ra thread and discovered a post that essentially painted the picture that the experiences some of us have had with other dimensional entities was simply illnesses within our own individual minds and had no foundation in actual reality and could not be proved.

    This post is from someone who has had amazing personal experiences in the “astral” and actually has spent two generations performing “rescue work” in the astral realm. He has, admittedly, been in contact and received the attention of one of the most respected and renowned “ascended masters” and I doubt you will find a more loving and wonderful human being on earth today.

    And yet, his view essentially insinuates that my experiences (much less all the others who have had first hand encounters with alien beings, extra dimensional beings, etc is simply and only delusions within the mind of the individual perceiver.

    This post was quite devastating to me and for this reason.

    Many of us on earth today that have had these experiences are seeking a better world for our children. When an individual with the stature of the one who made the post takes the position our experiences are simply delusions of our own (and with an implication – sick and/or delusional) minds because

    a.) he has not had these types of experiences and he perceives himself an authority on the matter

    b.) because his ascended master friend and all the other Spirit beings he has encountered have influenced his thinking that there could not possibly be more to the story than what he has concluded and

    c.) that none of us can prove to him with enough evidence of proof that he would agree is valid proof that our experiences are more (and in my opinion far, far more) than just simple creations within our own, individual minds.

    So eventually I was able to go to sleep – around 2:30 or 3:00 AM.

    I had the most incredible lucid dream. I dreamed I was on a planet where the ground all around us was caving in. water was rushing over the land that was collapsing. I could tell i was with many people and yet I was definitely worried about myself. I did not perceive any specific loved ones yet i was with others I knew and cared about. We were all running to buildings and places where we thought we could be safe. The ground was actually swarming. At the end of the dream (just before I did what i always do when i have a dream I begin to not like – which is to intentionally wake myself up), the ground had collapsed all around a small piece of land which had a small building which I and others were in. I saw the last stages of ground just outside the window falling in and the water rushing over it. I knew the next thing that could happen was that the ground holding up this small building would collapse. That is when I woke myself up.

    At the moment of awakening, as opposed to prior to my joining Avalon where I would be in a pretty deep state of shock, I was instantly analytical about this lucid dream experience. It was truly amazing. I did not do like some folks have done, where I consider my astral/dream experience might be a foretelling of the future of mankind. Instead I realized I had it in the context of the experiences I just endured in my waking state. Two HUGE devastating experiences for me personally that I experienced just before sleep... and then this incredible “dream” where I lucidly participated.

    Anyways – I had to post this here as definitely it includes an amazing and wonderful (yes wonderful OBE experience).

    Why did I “enjoy” what appears to have been a nightmare? Because I no longer doubt at all whatsoever that whatever of me is real is also safe and can never, ever be threatened. This allows me to have any type of experience with essentially zero fear.
    ...
    Interesting that you immediately had a vivid and lucid experience that obviously contradicted the assertions the other member had made.

    Just for the record, most of the people I know who have expertise which might be equal to that of that member claim that the whole notion of "ascended masters" is phoney, if not indeed a neurotic delusion.

    Also, I can remember being a higher-dimensional being before I was conceived, and I can recall the whole process of my conception in great detail. I can assure you that was in no way a delusion. Some memories are so much more vivid than anything else.

    I'm also actually not necessarily impressed if somebody does rescue work in 4D. I mean, before I was conceived, as I just mentioned, I remember working as a 6D being for many generations in the position of a guardian angel. I've also spent long periods of time in that position in relation to this planet (not to mention other planets), including at times when other intelligent species than human beings were the intelligent species I worked to support.

    But I would have thought maybe you are probably being terribly unfair to this person by painting him as such an inflexible know-it-all? I don't know; maybe you're just making fair comment.

    I must admit, though, that up till now I haven't read any full posts on the Horus-Ra thread because I saw parts of such posts and some of them seemed to me ridiculously paranoid. That's not to deny, in the light of your comments, Chester, that there isn't some sort of valid phenomenon in there somewhere. Certainly, I know that demonic (dead) humans are real, by direct experience, though my experience of them has been very limited. I mostly just seem to meet the good, positive guys.
    Last edited by TraineeHuman; 1st January 2013 at 07:54.
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    Default Re: The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs

    Quote Posted by justoneman (here)
    My dream with George W. Bush at around 7:00 AM US Central Time today, December 27th, 2012.
    The following comments of mine would be part of how I would suggest this dream can be interpreted.

    Quote I found myself in a home. The home had several rooms. I was in the home because I was welcomed there. It was a large home that appeared to have only one floor.
    According to me, there are only a few dream symbols that have universal meanings. Home is one of them. A home = your mind.

    Quote I entered a room and there was George W. Bush. We had some type of exchange... a communication of sorts but without words. I recall feeling I belonged there, I recall feeling that I am trusted and I recall having that feeling like a young soldier might when he is called in by some general to be asked to perform some special type of duty.
    Putting on my professional psychologist’s hat for a moment, it seems obvious to me that you have some unresolved issues with your father. The issues have very much to do with your badly needing or wanting your father’s approval, but feeling that he withheld it all from you.

    You may be actually communicating with GWB to some degree OB, but it also seems obvious that he in your wish-fulfilment dream he is an authority figure who for some reason suffices as a replacement for your father. If this famous and very powerful individual recognizes you and validates and approves of who you are and what you are doing, then who cares about your birth father anyway? Suck eggs, Dad.

    Quote ... the dream then shifted to where I was in the doorway of a room that had several men in it... about 5, maybe 6. One was George W. Bush. They all were basically standing in a row about 10 feet in front of me with George W. Bush one of the guys in the center. None of the other men were anyone I might know and I got the feeling these men were part of a team and that they were intentionally unknown to the popular world.

    I had the feeling i was asked to meet my team mates.
    Maybe it subconsciously feels a little naughty to reject Dad in favor of GWB, but this is right, and your peers confirm it.

    Quote Strangely the next thing I knew I was driving an old, blue station wagon. I knew the car was given to me by this team.
    You’re making this dream easy to interpret. One of the very few other universal dream symbols I recognize is that of a vehicle. A vehicle always stands for the course of your life.

    Quote I was on what i believe was Central Expressway in Dallas Texas heading south. I recall having this fantastic feeling that finally, I was asked officially to join the team and begin performing my missions.
    Now that you feel validated and approved of, you can proceed with your life without any flat tyres or potholes.

    Quote I had zero clue what those missions might be and well, in fact... I had the strange feeling that I am actually doing my mission right now in my real, waking life... simply being me and doing what i do every day in my life which includes these strange postings I make which are all and only about my own personal experience, the conclusions I draw from them and the view points I explore and most importantly, how I allow my opinions, conclusions and view points to change (the key reason I am honored to be invited as a part of this team).

    There is zero "steerage" or apparent mind control related to any of this. I am given zero instructions. All I feel I gain from these encounters as confidence that i am not alone, confidence that I have the support of some very interesting people at their deeper levels of their being and I am aware that I am very, very happy about this.
    In reality, any lad lacking a strong enough inner father has to do it themselves – to wing it and learn to be a man themselves. And to gain respect and affection in the adult world on their own merits.

    Quote Strangely as well, I feel zero wrong about my posting about all this. I suspect some here will conclude I am a mind controlled MK Ultra and that I work for the Rockefeller/Bush/Nazi clan and that I am a "bad guy."
    Moreover, such a person is stronger than the average person because in many ways he has had to be his own authority.

    Quote ... I have no idea how to interpret these experiences but what I do know now is that I am going to begin to post all my strange psi experiences that relate specifically to George W. Bush which will point out why I think just about everyone on this planet has the wrong idea about him (as well as his Dad).
    Having learnt to stand on your own feet, you can end the whole neurotic complex by forgiving your father and acknowledging that underneath all your hate and disappointment toward him, you felt love, and you knew he was OK after all.

    Quote I am certain this will all make me the most unpopular guy on the forum and very possibly might get me banned BUT, I hope I am allowed to make these posts as I am truly, only being honest, sharing actual experiences and positing my own conclusions.

    And note, if I were aligned with anyone where being loyal to them required me to compromise upholding my own extremely rigid personal standards, then i would likely exit the team. I may then just retire and shut my mouth and if I am allowed to live, would inter into a focusing on my close family, perhaps some writings I might attempt to publish with regards to metaphysics and lastly, the metaphysical phase of my own bodily death.
    More regarding how, having had to create yourself as your own authority figure, you can stand up to other authorities, and to unpopularity. Whoops! The dream’s already finished, so I’d better turn off my comments. Well, except that you’ve finished the post already anyway.
    Last edited by TraineeHuman; 1st January 2013 at 09:06.

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    Default Re: The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs

    Quote Posted by TraineeHuman (here)
    Quote Posted by FrankoL (here)
    I experience quite a lot OBE's. Not completely sure if it's DNA memory direct access or real body spirit split. HT are you descendent from "royal" bloodline? This would explain why...
    Yes, my mother belonged to the Merovingian and Franco-Prussian royal bloodline. I was born in Australia, but she was a migrant from a country where, up till the start of WW2, her clan had been probably the most powerful and the richest in the country.

    But, can you tell us why this would be relevant?

    I guess I have seen "genetic" memories coming via my cells and DNA, but as far as I'm aware that's quite different from most of the OB perceptions/awarenesses I experience.
    To be honest, I don't know if it is relevant.

    Not long ago I had same your belief, body spirit split and everything you describe so accurately.

    However, I changed my POV when I was told very simply, there is only genetic memory passing from generation to generation (the bloodline). Basically, what you have learned and experienced it will be passed on (and everything before to certain extent). Mixing bloodlines and purification is another story...

    In essence, you are almost a copy of all that was before you. Experiences of famine, lust, war, you name it. Moreover, now try to imagine that time doesn't exist. It makes more sense. Everyone before you is you. This explains past lives and all vivid dreams you have being another person. At least what I could wrap-up from my dream time. There is lot more to the story...

    In real life, what is your 'benefit' in comparison to the rest, who is not having OBEs? What for you need OBEs and dream time? Does your mother have the same experiences and why they strived to mantain the bloodline?
    Last edited by FrankoL; 1st January 2013 at 10:25.

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    Default Re: The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs

    Do you believe that only the physical exists – that spirit is just an epiphenomenon of the body? (In the world of Western academic philosophy, the view that everything is ultimately physical is well known to lead to a very incomplete picture of reality.)

    And how would you explain all my experiences of communicating with dead people and beings, some of whom I have never known? Your comments would seem to imply that there is no such thing as an afterlife. So, according to you is it all hallucination? What about experiences I have which are far more vivid than anything I experience in the physical world?

    And what about, e.g., my memories of being conceived, for instance? Not the physical act, but the business that went on in a higher plane. Is that fantasy, according to you?

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    Default Re: The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs

    Quote Posted by TraineeHuman (here)
    Quote Posted by AwakeInADream (here)

    Should I to some degree whilst doing this experiment, trust my inner imaginative vision even if it isn't lucid?
    If you’re truly grounded at the time, and you truly can hold your conceptualizing mind off (like “turn the volume down” on anything it’s saying), and you raise your level of consciousness (e.g. through a little meditating), then your imaginative vision will tell you the truth. Or, at least, a nearer approximation to the truth than you’ll get otherwise. That’s how geniuses do their work.

    At the moment I’m afraid I don’t know what “lucid” means. Yes, I have had plenty of experiences of believing I was “waking up” in the middle of a dream, for instance. But even at the moment I seemed to “wake up”, how do I know I wasn’t dreaming that I woke up? And how do I know that my memories of such airy-fairy things are accurate anyway? So much of “lucidity” depends on accuracy of memory. But since it all concerns things within a dream, how do I know it wasn’t fantasy-memory?
    We all create our own definitions to words (or at least our own shades of the meanings) so I will share what "lucid" means to me.

    My dreams can be divided into two groups.

    Group A is where I am having a dream but appear only to be an observer of the dream. I am simply watching a movie in this state.

    Then there is Group B - "lucid dreaming."

    There are two types of dreams in this Group B - One type is a dream in which I am able to experience a conscious "direction" of the dream - just like a director of a movie (though I have never experienced full control).

    The other type within Group B is when I actually see myself in the dream as one of the actors and I am able to direct "me" in the dream just like in real life but the coolest thing about this is that because I am doing so in the "subtle real" (which is another term for our "dreaming state" the actual realm is fluid (not solid) and so the realm itself is able to "change" outside of the rules we have come accustomed to in our "waking state" which is also referred to as our "gross" state of experience.

    The key is that "you" whoever/whatever that is, takes an active role in the dream as the dream develops as opposed to simply being the observer.

    Because I have noted these two dream states (which are actually three because of the two types of "lucid dreaming" I do, I found an interesting parallel to what those who are taught the practice of meditation sometimes achieve which is the experience of being the awareness behind the awareness of "me" or (the awareness of the face behind the face).

    This is a "trinity" relationship and because I am able to experience all three of these "perspectives" and enjoy them all, I am not married to any single one of them as some do who discover the absolute and who discover non-dual awareness.

    So "lucid" dreaming is where "i" (whoever/whatever "I" might be) take an conscious, active roll in the development of the dream.

    I have been able to enjoy battle with all sorts of horrors in the dream state and found the simple, always easy to do, never failing technique that when "the bad guys" have me surrounded - I simply wake up!

    No suffering - simply enjoyment of the interesting movie I just experienced. I shake off horrific dreams the instant I wake and then I reflect on the dream, see how it symbolically applies to may waking state of mind and allow myself to perform the mind exercise that ends with the same conclusion - all these states are "dream" states from one perspective - even this very rigid waking state.

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    Default Re: The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs

    Quote Posted by TraineeHuman (here)
    Incidentally, Chester has indicated that he has other ways to conquer and defuse suffering. Chester, if you can articulate these not in terms of your personal history but in more impersonal terms that everyone can apply, I certainly welcome hearing them here.
    Hi TraineeHuman - I would enjoy responding properly to this inquiry but I have several difficulties in doing so -

    I would not be able to answer the question specifically without crossing the line of discussing a subject you asked that I avoid - the subject of self-termination. In addition, I could not give a proper answer as to my process without sharing it in the context of my own personal experience.

    Perhaps I might do this in my recently created thread over in the UFO Category... if you and others here ask me so to do.

    I have continued to enjoy this thread tremendously - thanks TraineeHuman and all contributors. - justoneman

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    Default Re: The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs

    Quote Posted by TraineeHuman (here)
    Quote Posted by justoneman (here)
    ... I went to the Horus-Ra thread and discovered a post that essentially painted the picture that the experiences some of us have had with other dimensional entities was simply illnesses within our own individual minds and had no foundation in actual reality and could not be proved.

    This post is from someone who has had amazing personal experiences in the “astral” and actually has spent two generations performing “rescue work” in the astral realm. He has, admittedly, been in contact and received the attention of one of the most respected and renowned “ascended masters” and I doubt you will find a more loving and wonderful human being on earth today.

    And yet, his view essentially insinuates that my experiences (much less all the others who have had first hand encounters with alien beings, extra dimensional beings, etc is simply and only delusions within the mind of the individual perceiver.

    This post was quite devastating to me and for this reason.

    Many of us on earth today that have had these experiences are seeking a better world for our children. When an individual with the stature of the one who made the post takes the position our experiences are simply delusions of our own (and with an implication – sick and/or delusional) minds because

    a.) he has not had these types of experiences and he perceives himself an authority on the matter

    b.) because his ascended master friend and all the other Spirit beings he has encountered have influenced his thinking that there could not possibly be more to the story than what he has concluded and

    c.) that none of us can prove to him with enough evidence of proof that he would agree is valid proof that our experiences are more (and in my opinion far, far more) than just simple creations within our own, individual minds.

    So eventually I was able to go to sleep – around 2:30 or 3:00 AM.

    I had the most incredible lucid dream. I dreamed I was on a planet where the ground all around us was caving in. water was rushing over the land that was collapsing. I could tell i was with many people and yet I was definitely worried about myself. I did not perceive any specific loved ones yet i was with others I knew and cared about. We were all running to buildings and places where we thought we could be safe. The ground was actually swarming. At the end of the dream (just before I did what i always do when i have a dream I begin to not like – which is to intentionally wake myself up), the ground had collapsed all around a small piece of land which had a small building which I and others were in. I saw the last stages of ground just outside the window falling in and the water rushing over it. I knew the next thing that could happen was that the ground holding up this small building would collapse. That is when I woke myself up.

    At the moment of awakening, as opposed to prior to my joining Avalon where I would be in a pretty deep state of shock, I was instantly analytical about this lucid dream experience. It was truly amazing. I did not do like some folks have done, where I consider my astral/dream experience might be a foretelling of the future of mankind. Instead I realized I had it in the context of the experiences I just endured in my waking state. Two HUGE devastating experiences for me personally that I experienced just before sleep... and then this incredible “dream” where I lucidly participated.

    Anyways – I had to post this here as definitely it includes an amazing and wonderful (yes wonderful OBE experience).

    Why did I “enjoy” what appears to have been a nightmare? Because I no longer doubt at all whatsoever that whatever of me is real is also safe and can never, ever be threatened. This allows me to have any type of experience with essentially zero fear.
    ...
    Interesting that you immediately had a vivid and lucid experience that obviously contradicted the assertions the other member had made.

    Just for the record, most of the people I know who have expertise which might be equal to that of that member claim that the whole notion of "ascended masters" is phoney, if not indeed a neurotic delusion.

    Also, I can remember being a higher-dimensional being before I was conceived, and I can recall the whole process of my conception in great detail. I can assure you that was in no way a delusion. Some memories are so much more vivid than anything else.

    I'm also actually not necessarily impressed if somebody does rescue work in 4D. I mean, before I was conceived, as I just mentioned, I remember working as a 6D being for many generations in the position of a guardian angel. I've also spent long periods of time in that position in relation to this planet (not to mention other planets), including at times when other intelligent species than human beings were the intelligent species I worked to support.

    But I would have thought maybe you are probably being terribly unfair to this person by painting him as such an inflexible know-it-all? I don't know; maybe you're just making fair comment.

    I must admit, though, that up till now I haven't read any full posts on the Horus-Ra thread because I saw parts of such posts and some of them seemed to me ridiculously paranoid. That's not to deny, in the light of your comments, Chester, that there isn't some sort of valid phenomenon in there somewhere. Certainly, I know that demonic (dead) humans are real, by direct experience, though my experience of them has been very limited. I mostly just seem to meet the good, positive guys.
    I am complex and my mind thinks in complex abstract ways so I will do my best to simplify.

    I have found all too often folks who have had incredible explorations in the non waking state express to others and myself their experiences. Nothing wrong with that.

    Some folks who do that then sometimes go the next step and suggest details of the structure and/or "beings" encountered in the non waking state to be THE one and only truthful or divinely organized structure. Still perhaps nothing necessarily wrong with that.

    But when they then declare that what others experience in either their non-waking state and/or their waking state that does not reconcile with the structure they envision as THE divine structure and go the next step of stating that other person's experiences are nothing but delusions of their own (implication "ill" mind) I take exception to that and consider it completely and entirely hypocritical.

    The worlds of an explorer of the non-waking state can never be proven in our "waking state" physical world rule set. Thus how could one person's non-waking state realms of experience be categorically painted as THE actual and only set of realms and anyone who has experiences that does not fit into that person's model is simply and sadly delusions.

    I see all possibility. I have experienced how I, a single "being" is able to create a relationship with the "all that is" and have vast, complex conversations with "it." I have also found how there is some deeper level of me that seems intrinsically linked to these realms I explore and that these realms take on a form which is subjectively influenced. Thus I honor all experiences of all who have experiences and honor their interpretation of those experiences for the simple reason i have proven to myself my subjective role in the development of what I experience therefore how could I possibly tell anyone else their experience is delusional?

    I hope this has been clarified.

    Now for the last hope of simplifying my point -

    I don't know but I know that you (not you, TraineeHuman nor Ray nor anyone in particular) don't know also... so, please, honor that we all have our own non waking state realms to explore and no one's is any less valid than yours.

    And if those experiences spill over into the waking state - such as has happened with Daughter of Time and wynderer and some others who have shared their experiences in relation to the perception they have been abducted - those experiences should be honored that they were real for the experiencer.

    That is all I hoped to communicate and I am firm (today) in my position.

    Based upon that point, I suggested that folks open their mind that our experiences, no matter at what level and through which state (waking or dreaming or the causal state) through which we have our experience could have the potential to be influenced by third parties.

    It is possible that the experiences one might have with "ascended masters" is not only realm, but shared by many. And these ascended masters may appear to supply incredible love and wisdom, etc. At the same time, it is also possible that a "third party" might actually be manipulating these wonderful ascended masters such that those they encounter buy into paradigms where all is well as you need to go through lifetimes and lifetimes of "learning" so that you can also "ascend" where in the meantime we have folks experiencing the very most horrific waking state experiences at this very moment.

    It seems too convenient to me the idea some of our fellow human beings promote "reincarnation" as if it is some benevolent "god's" divine plan for the "evolution of our soul" where they rule out the possibility that there could be a third party involved that benefits from those who buy into this view and that benefit results in our turning a blind eye to the horrors that occur daily in our waking state on this planet.

    I don't know if this is the case or not but neither does anyone else.

    Hopefully this is clear now.

    And thanks TraineeHuman for providing me the opportunity to clarify my view.

    The saddest part for me, personally, is that I barely survived what appears to be a relationship I have had (and may still have) with what also appears to be a third party and which I have significant (yet circumstantial) evidence is what some have come to call a Horus-Ra "entity." This could all and only be some delusion within my own mind, despite the mountain of synchronistic finger pointing that would cause the raising of eyebrows of any rational, unbiased investigator who looked at the evidence.

    What I have experienced is very, very real (to me). How then could I (nor anyone else who has had experiences from the non waking state posit the position these experiences of others are simply delusional and there's are the actual (and divinely ordained to boot!) - I smell a rat.

    Perhaps we are all delusional. I am open minded to anything.
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    Default Re: The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs

    Quote Posted by TraineeHuman (here)
    Quote Posted by justoneman (here)
    My dream with George W. Bush at around 7:00 AM US Central Time today, December 27th, 2012.
    The following comments of mine would be part of how I would suggest this dream can be interpreted.

    Quote I found myself in a home. The home had several rooms. I was in the home because I was welcomed there. It was a large home that appeared to have only one floor.
    According to me, there are only a few dream symbols that have universal meanings. Home is one of them. A home = your mind.

    Quote I entered a room and there was George W. Bush. We had some type of exchange... a communication of sorts but without words. I recall feeling I belonged there, I recall feeling that I am trusted and I recall having that feeling like a young soldier might when he is called in by some general to be asked to perform some special type of duty.
    Putting on my professional psychologist’s hat for a moment, it seems obvious to me that you have some unresolved issues with your father. The issues have very much to do with your badly needing or wanting your father’s approval, but feeling that he withheld it all from you.

    You may be actually communicating with GWB to some degree OB, but it also seems obvious that he in your wish-fulfilment dream he is an authority figure who for some reason suffices as a replacement for your father. If this famous and very powerful individual recognizes you and validates and approves of who you are and what you are doing, then who cares about your birth father anyway? Suck eggs, Dad.

    Quote ... the dream then shifted to where I was in the doorway of a room that had several men in it... about 5, maybe 6. One was George W. Bush. They all were basically standing in a row about 10 feet in front of me with George W. Bush one of the guys in the center. None of the other men were anyone I might know and I got the feeling these men were part of a team and that they were intentionally unknown to the popular world.

    I had the feeling i was asked to meet my team mates.
    Maybe it subconsciously feels a little naughty to reject Dad in favor of GWB, but this is right, and your peers confirm it.

    Quote Strangely the next thing I knew I was driving an old, blue station wagon. I knew the car was given to me by this team.
    You’re making this dream easy to interpret. One of the very few other universal dream symbols I recognize is that of a vehicle. A vehicle always stands for the course of your life.

    Quote I was on what i believe was Central Expressway in Dallas Texas heading south. I recall having this fantastic feeling that finally, I was asked officially to join the team and begin performing my missions.
    Now that you feel validated and approved of, you can proceed with your life without any flat tyres or potholes.

    Quote I had zero clue what those missions might be and well, in fact... I had the strange feeling that I am actually doing my mission right now in my real, waking life... simply being me and doing what i do every day in my life which includes these strange postings I make which are all and only about my own personal experience, the conclusions I draw from them and the view points I explore and most importantly, how I allow my opinions, conclusions and view points to change (the key reason I am honored to be invited as a part of this team).

    There is zero "steerage" or apparent mind control related to any of this. I am given zero instructions. All I feel I gain from these encounters as confidence that i am not alone, confidence that I have the support of some very interesting people at their deeper levels of their being and I am aware that I am very, very happy about this.
    In reality, any lad lacking a strong enough inner father has to do it themselves – to wing it and learn to be a man themselves. And to gain respect and affection in the adult world on their own merits.

    Quote Strangely as well, I feel zero wrong about my posting about all this. I suspect some here will conclude I am a mind controlled MK Ultra and that I work for the Rockefeller/Bush/Nazi clan and that I am a "bad guy."
    Moreover, such a person is stronger than the average person because in many ways he has had to be his own authority.

    Quote ... I have no idea how to interpret these experiences but what I do know now is that I am going to begin to post all my strange psi experiences that relate specifically to George W. Bush which will point out why I think just about everyone on this planet has the wrong idea about him (as well as his Dad).
    Having learnt to stand on your own feet, you can end the whole neurotic complex by forgiving your father and acknowledging that underneath all your hate and disappointment toward him, you felt love, and you knew he was OK after all.

    Quote I am certain this will all make me the most unpopular guy on the forum and very possibly might get me banned BUT, I hope I am allowed to make these posts as I am truly, only being honest, sharing actual experiences and positing my own conclusions.

    And note, if I were aligned with anyone where being loyal to them required me to compromise upholding my own extremely rigid personal standards, then i would likely exit the team. I may then just retire and shut my mouth and if I am allowed to live, would inter into a focusing on my close family, perhaps some writings I might attempt to publish with regards to metaphysics and lastly, the metaphysical phase of my own bodily death.
    More regarding how, having had to create yourself as your own authority figure, you can stand up to other authorities, and to unpopularity. Whoops! The dream’s already finished, so I’d better turn off my comments. Well, except that you’ve finished the post already anyway.
    Wow, I am truly very impressed - you nailed some core truths but in some cases drew some additional conclusions that are not applicable - still... I am happy that you went through my post and put so much heart and thought behind it.

    I would be happy to answer back in specifics the various elements you covered here but it would again breech the request you made in regards to avoidance of the subjects of "alcohol/drug" issues and the issue of "suicide."

    So out of honoring your request I must withhold my response.

    Perhaps I should post this in my newly created thread mentioned above? I would be willing to do so.

    Chester

  38. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Sammy For This Post:

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    Default Re: The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs

    Quote Posted by TraineeHuman (here)
    Do you believe that only the physical exists – that spirit is just an epiphenomenon of the body? (In the world of Western academic philosophy, the view that everything is ultimately physical is well known to lead to a very incomplete picture of reality.)

    And how would you explain all my experiences of communicating with dead people and beings, some of whom I have never known? Your comments would seem to imply that there is no such thing as an afterlife. So, according to you is it all hallucination? What about experiences I have which are far more vivid than anything I experience in the physical world?

    And what about, e.g., my memories of being conceived, for instance? Not the physical act, but the business that went on in a higher plane. Is that fantasy, according to you?
    One of my very best personal friends is a professional medium. She does not do what she does for "the money" as she does not need money as she is quite wealthy. The clients she takes on are all and only recommended to her by her former clients (thus all and only through wrod of mouth).

    She takes on a client because she cares to help folks who are dealing with the loss of a loved one.

    The primary reason she has such great respect and appreciation from her clients is because she is always able to prove to the clients she is indeed in communication with the target Spirit being by telling her clients one or more things the Spirit being knows the client will know that is otherwise an unknown fact to the public much less something that might be known to my friend.

    Now I have had hundreds of psi experiences with my friend that were not of the medium variety and so I know her abilities first hand. But this one specific talent proves unequivocally to me that there's far more to life than than the simple passing down of "genetic memories."

    I have also developed my own psi abilities where I know this as well.

    I recall when I was younger and had the view as shared by FrankoL. I also recall when I was involved with mid level "illumed and nutty" operatives that they were all caught up on bloodlines and genetics, which have their valid place in the bigger picture, but which they viewed as the only valid components in the equation of what life's all about.

    I suggest one considers "who" or "what" might benefit that "we" share that type of narrow view?

    Perhaps that view (though it appears to be narrow) turns out at the end of the day to be the actual, correct view... I am wide open minded to everything... but my intuition smells a rat.

    Who knows?

    I have found it emotionally draining (as well as unnecessarily exposing) to get too wound up about others views yet at the same time, I always seem to challenge anyone who attempts to impose their own view on another while at the same time ridiculing the view of that same other unless their view honors equally an opposing view (as I strive to do).

  40. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Sammy For This Post:

    AwakeInADream (2nd January 2013), Deneon (3rd January 2013), Joe Akulis (20th February 2013), TraineeHuman (2nd January 2013)

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