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Thread: Media blackout: Oregon mall shooter was stopped by an armed citizen

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    New Zealand Avalon Member witchy1's Avatar
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    Default Media blackout: Oregon mall shooter was stopped by an armed citizen

    While reports of Tuesday's shooting at the Clackamas Town Center Mall in Oregon, dominated the national media, until Friday's horrific shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Connecticut, one very important detail has been repeatedly (and intentionally) left out of the MSM's coverage.

    The shooter, Jacob Tyler Roberts, was confronted with an armed citizen, at which time he ran away and shot himself. By the time police arrived on the scene, Roberts was already dead.

    That armed man was 22-year-old Nick Meli, who was at the mall shopping with a young woman who was babysitting her friend's baby.

    On Friday, KGW News Channel 8, the only media outlet to cover this part of the story, posted the following report on their website:




    Clackamas Mall Shooter was confronted by armed citizenClackamas Mall Shooter was confronted by armed citizen

    "I heard three shots and turned and looked at Casey and said, 'are you serious?,'" he said. The friend and baby hit the floor. Meli, who has a concealed carry permit, positioned himself behind a pillar.

    "He was working on his rifle," said Meli. "He kept pulling the charging handle and hitting the side." The break in gunfire allowed Meli to pull out his own gun, but he never took his eyes off the shooter.

    "As I was going down to pull, I saw someone in the back of the Charlotte move, and I knew if I fired and missed, I could hit them," he said. Meli took cover inside a nearby store. He never pulled the trigger. He stands by that decision.

    "I'm not beating myself up cause I didn't shoot him," said Meli. "I know after he saw me, I think the last shot he fired was the one he used on himself."

    The gunman was dead, but not before taking two innocent lives with him and taking the innocence of everyone else.

    We now know that the assailant's gun had jammed, and when he cleared it, he quickly retreated and shot himself, as Meli continued to keep him in his sights.

    Not only has the national media refused to acknowledge this aspect of the deadly event, but law enforcement has as well.

    On Tuesday night, Clackamas County Sheriff Craig Roberts held a press conference in which he credited local police officers and deputies with ending the rampage, never mentioning Meli's actions.


    Sheriff Roberts said: "I'm really proud of all the different agencies that came together to really step up and put their lives on the line," to "basically hunt down this guy in the mall."


    Now, remember, the shooter was already dead when police arrived on the scene.

    Killed in the attack were Steven Mathew Forsyth, 45, and Cindy Ann Yuille, 54, A 15-year-old girl, identified as Kristina Shevchenko, was seriously wounded but was expected to survive.


    Of course, the Obamamedia is in full support of even harsher gun control laws and it should come as no surprise that they would suppress any story which provides proof that lawfully armed citizens do prevent crimes and save lives.


    Here are a few facts about armed Americans:


    -In 1982, the town of Kennesaw, Georgia, passed an ordinance which required all heads of household to have at least one gun in the house. The burglary rate immediately dropped an astounding 89 percent. Ten years after the law was passed, the burglary rate was still 72 percent less than it was in 1981.

    -Armed citizens shoot and kill at least twice as many criminals as the police do every year in this country (1,527 to 606).

    -A 1996 University of Chicago study concluded that states which passed concealed carry laws reduced their murder rates by 8.5 percent, rapes by 5 percent, aggravated assaults by 7 percent, and robbery by 3 percent.

    -According to the National Safety Council, with guns being used 2.5 million times a year in self defense against criminals, firearms are actually used more than 80 times more often to protect lives, rather than to take lives.

    -A 1979 Justice Department study entitled Rape Victimization in American Cities, concluded that of more than 32,000 attempted rapes, 32 percent were actually committed. But when a woman was armed with a gun or knife, only 3 percent of the attempted rapes were actually committed.

    -Another Justice Department study found that 57 percent of felons agreed that "criminals are more worried about meeting an armed victim than they are about running the police."

    http://www.examiner.com/article/medi...-armed-citizen

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    Avalon Member sigma6's Avatar
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    Default Re: Media blackout: Oregon mall shooter was stopped by an armed citizen

    This is the real story
    "We shall not cease from exploration, and the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time"
    - TS Eliot
    "By faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the 'word of God' ... so that the things which are seen were not made of the things which are visible"
    - a quantum interpretation, understanding 'spirit' (or consciousness) as the "things not visible" (or non-material) yet quintessentially fundamental to the "things which are seen"

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    Default Re: Media blackout: Oregon mall shooter was stopped by an armed citizen

    This is a very important part of the story thanks you
    The conquering of self is truly greater than were one to conquer many worlds.
    Edgar Cayce

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    Default Re: Media blackout: Oregon mall shooter was stopped by an armed citizen

    His testimony says a lot. Especially about the reactions of a healthy person with the prospect of shooting another human being staring him in the face. Concern for consequences on others.

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    Default Re: Media blackout: Oregon mall shooter was stopped by an armed citizen

    awesome, glad to see this! (as opposed to not seeing it at all!) good for this dude!
    unite, alright
    you know one thing about music? when it hits, you feel no pain!

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    Default Re: Media blackout: Oregon mall shooter was stopped by an armed citizen

    Good on the guy but I'm not sure why the media arn't running with the story?

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    Default Re: Media blackout: Oregon mall shooter was stopped by an armed citizen

    Quote Posted by andrewgreen (here)
    Good on the guy but I'm not sure why the media arn't running with the story?
    Really?

    Because the media only propogates thy governments bidding!

    I just sent this to all my family and friends.
    With a thought:
    How many trained cops would have reacted in such a level-headed manner as this young man?
    BRAVO!!!

    (And they want to take away OUR guns??!!)
    Harley Hawkins

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    Default Re: Media blackout: Oregon mall shooter was stopped by an armed citizen

    I live in Oregon. Many Oregonians lawfully carry concealed weapons. I carry, and feel safer doing so. As a woman, who often must travel alone, I never feel like a "victim". A previous neighbor, a female police officer, mentioned that guns are used more often than reported in "deterring" crimes!

    Shortly after moving into my current house, a neighbor called, frightened, and said that three young men were going door to door promoting "security" systems in a threatening manner. "Don't open your door!" she pleaded. They did come to my door and I did open it - with my German Shepard and my loaded Sig. I will never forget the shocked look on that young man's face as he literally jumped backwards 5 feet from a standing position. I told them to please leave my porch and not come back. They did ,and they didn't . Don't live in fear, no matter how you do it. Peace.

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    Default Re: Media blackout: Oregon mall shooter was stopped by an armed citizen

    when the public is armed, the government and police are not needed in an emergency. when the public is unarmed, we depend on someone else for saftey, hence giving away your power...
    FOLLOW YOUR HEART, AND YOU'LL FIND YOUR WAY ... Raiding the Matrix , One Mind at a Time ...

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    Default Re: Media blackout: Oregon mall shooter was stopped by an armed citizen

    8,9 responses? this is the kind of information that should be going viral... very disturbing how people on this site aren't 'getting it'... especially something so straightforward as this, isn't this the very thing that we as a network could easily counter?

    ie. spread the word and expose the story and the very forces that would cause such a media blackout?

    Don't we have that potential within our membership to do something about this? or this considered too controversial and politically incorrect, please someone enlighten me?
    "We shall not cease from exploration, and the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time"
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    Default Re: Media blackout: Oregon mall shooter was stopped by an armed citizen

    Sigma 6, a very difficult point seems not to cross the mind of may USA citizens.

    This forum is not uniquely American. There is people from all over the world on it. And frankly, most of us do not give a damn about the guns laws in USA and whatever it may or may not bring/give. In fact, we do not understand that fascinations americans seems to have for their arms (to us, it is perceived as fascination, not self protection). Also, most of us do not have rights to bear arms in our constitution or our laws, yet our countries are quite quiet when we compare, in a murder/#of citizens ratio, when compared with the USA. Our countries are not the designers of wars either, on average. So, we wonder....

    This statement is plainly a description of ways of thinking elsewhere on the planet. Another view of the world. It is very plain, it cannot be discussed much not more than your "fascination for guns" can be, it is culturally biaised.

    With this in mind, 8-9 answers is not surprising to me at all. May be the question should be why not more American, actually on this forum, took the hint and wrote.

    Those discussions are extremely culturally self centered in our views. So, this is an American thread for most of us and we have nothing to write in it.

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    Avalon Member sigma6's Avatar
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    Default Re: Media blackout: Oregon mall shooter was stopped by an armed citizen

    I'm not an American, I am not really a believer in guns, (although they may have application in certain limited situations, like maybe hunting or protection against wild animals) so I can relate to what you are saying... however, within the context of the American situation as it stands right now, the idea of disarming Americans who have grown up with guns as part of their culture is not the solution right now either. Registration, permits, training and education is for now. I think the statistics are clear that within the existing climate, guns are saving more lives then they are taking. And women benefit the most from this.

    But on the other hand I can't deny your higher argument. And thanks for bringing that perspective into view... I cannot argue with the idea that ultimately society must move toward an environment where ALL weapons must cease to exist. But that presupposes a lot of things that aren't there. Like decent well educated, well fed, civil people with sound moral underpinnings, living in an environment where there is no want for the basic necessities, and real opportunities to better themselves. Also a proper understanding (education) on what the price and responsibilities are for participating in a republic based on true freedom of expression, where the rights of everyone are respected and protected. Unfortunately that isn't the case. It's just an idea that got railroaded by an infinitesimally small group of despicable and cowardly excuses for human beings, that decided to rape the country for their own personal gain. And this is the world they created.

    Until that is corrected, all the other people who see (all this corruption) and feel compelled to follow the example of their leaders and public figures on 'how to get ahead in life' as the only philosophy they know... must be defended against until they are all eliminated or educated.

    What you are saying is true in an idealistic sense. What I am saying is considered pragmatic. There has to be a gradual process of moving from one to the other. Practical actionable steps. And killing innocent people, including children, as part of a sophisticated media campaign in order to compensate for, and cover up their lack of moral decrepitude in the first place isn't the answer. There is no doubt if all the money in the world spent on war, including all the guns there would be enough material wealth and prosperity for every man women and child on this planet with an overabundance.

    That is just not the plan, never was, and won't be for a while. In the mean time, give the people their guns, and make the lard a**es in government, ask them nicely if they would like the government to stop spending 5 trillion every year maintaining a 1000 Roman Legions around the planet and secret underground bases for the elite military and the rich. (The very people causing all this death and suffering in the first place) But instead would like them to spend it on the people for REAL schools with REAL education, REAL food, free energy, the works, or better yet allow them to spend it on such infrastructure, in exchange they hand over the guns and start figuring out what philosophies should be taught (you have to have a philosophy, one way or another, regardless what 'name' or 'label' you call it) That would be how to create a REAL model that other countries around the world would truly envy...

    Then the only guns you would need is at the borders to keep out all the people begging to come in, and share in the prosperity.
    Last edited by sigma6; 23rd December 2012 at 00:48.
    "We shall not cease from exploration, and the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time"
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    "By faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the 'word of God' ... so that the things which are seen were not made of the things which are visible"
    - a quantum interpretation, understanding 'spirit' (or consciousness) as the "things not visible" (or non-material) yet quintessentially fundamental to the "things which are seen"

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    Avalon Member norman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Media blackout: Oregon mall shooter was stopped by an armed citizen

    Flash has said what I might have said too, but I couldn't have said it so well.

    It's totally obvious to me that the media hasn't mentioned the armed citizen because that would "shoot their agenda in the foot".


    On a more general level, regarding the lifestyle of being personally armed, I think it's a legacy left over from the days when European Americans were engaged in stealing the land from it's previous occupants. Migration usually happens more gently but in America it was a full scale takeover at the fastest possible pace and with a mantra of "The New World" driving it forward with 'divine rite'. No angry native or delinquent opportunistic immigrant would get anything but lethally short shrift.

    However, these days, there are such things as media campaigns and smarter technology to deal with.

    E.G. Where would an American citizen stand, legally, if he or she was to shoot "in self defense" at a person intending to use a Taser ( not a gun )?

    I think it's unlikely that a court would regard it as legitimate killing.

    Such a situation is rapidly becoming the most likely scenario an armed citizen would face in regards to the state of play with the right/duty to defend against a rogue and out of control government. This 'dynamic' would persist for quite a while before an all out shooting revolution would get going, and it would feed into a media war against the private citizens on the way into such a shooting revolution..... not a good thing at all.

    The sad thing is,..... modern America was won by killing. The citizens have remained armed for all these years, why ?

    It's gone on so long that a majority probably think it's a quaint old culture that is now getting out of hand in these crazy times. A minority probably think it's as deadly serious now as it ever was.

    What's to happen?

    It's very foolish to brave up on the notion that if you've got guns you can fight to survive. Time and technology have moved on. To think that, now - in 2012, is as hopeless as the previous Americans thinking their bows and arrows would keep the Europeans at bay. Geronimo put up a hell of a resistance but they got him in the end.
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    Default Re: Media blackout: Oregon mall shooter was stopped by an armed citizen

    Quote Posted by Flash (here)
    Sigma 6, a very difficult point seems not to cross the mind of may USA citizens.

    This forum is not uniquely American. There is people from all over the world on it. And frankly, most of us do not give a damn about the guns laws in USA and whatever it may or may not bring/give. In fact, we do not understand that fascinations americans seems to have for their arms (to us, it is perceived as fascination, not self protection). Also, most of us do not have rights to bear arms in our constitution or our laws, yet our countries are quite quiet when we compare, in a murder/#of citizens ratio, when compared with the USA. Our countries are not the designers of wars either, on average. So, we wonder....

    This statement is plainly a description of ways of thinking elsewhere on the planet. Another view of the world. It is very plain, it cannot be discussed much not more than your "fascination for guns" can be, it is culturally biaised.

    With this in mind, 8-9 answers is not surprising to me at all. May be the question should be why not more American, actually on this forum, took the hint and wrote.

    Those discussions are extremely culturally self centered in our views. So, this is an American thread for most of us and we have nothing to write in it.
    Hello Flash, I respect your opinion. However please do take into consideration that you are speaking for yourself and not a group of people. Others here on this forum are perfectly able to speak for themselves as well. Their opinions will be unique and varied as we all are individuals here. You use the words "we, our, and us" when describing your individual opinion. There may be a cultural slant one way or the other, but perhaps I'm feeling this due to a nationalist perspective that is strong in you. What ever the case, I just thought I would point it out.

    From the Heart,
    Kristin

    ¤=[Post Update]=¤

    Quote Posted by norman (here)
    Flash has said what I might have said too, but I couldn't have said it so well.

    It's totally obvious to me that the media hasn't mentioned the armed citizen because that would "shoot their agenda in the foot".


    On a more general level, regarding the lifestyle of being personally armed, I think it's a legacy left over from the days when European Americans were engaged in stealing the land from it's previous occupants. Migration usually happens more gently but in America it was a full scale takeover at the fastest possible pace and with a mantra of "The New World" driving it forward with 'divine rite'. No angry native or delinquent opportunistic immigrant would get anything but lethally short shrift.

    However, these days, there are such things as media campaigns and smarter technology to deal with.

    E.G. Where would an American citizen stand, legally, if he or she was to shoot "in self defense" at a person intending to use a Taser ( not a gun )?

    I think it's unlikely that a court would regard it as legitimate killing.

    Such a situation is rapidly becoming the most likely scenario an armed citizen would face in regards to the state of play with the right/duty to defend against a rogue and out of control government. This 'dynamic' would persist for quite a while before an all out shooting revolution would get going, and it would feed into a media war against the private citizens on the way into such a shooting revolution..... not a good thing at all.

    The sad thing is,..... modern America was won by killing. The citizens have remained armed for all these years, why ?

    It's gone on so long that a majority probably think it's a quaint old culture that is now getting out of hand in these crazy times. A minority probably think it's as deadly serious now as it ever was.

    What's to happen?

    It's very foolish to brave up on the notion that if you've got guns you can fight to survive. Time and technology have moved on. To think that, now - in 2012, is as hopeless as the previous Americans thinking their bows and arrows would keep the Europeans at bay. Geronimo put up a hell of a resistance but they got him in the end.

    Norman I thought you expressed yourself very well!
    From the Heart,
    Kristin

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    Default Re: Media blackout: Oregon mall shooter was stopped by an armed citizen

    I am thinking with my british head that if the agenda was to remove fire arms from the US citizens they would have an enormous battle on their hands, it might even be the biggest act of civil disobedience ever, but I could be wrong of course. Nevertheless I think they will stear it in that direction.

    In UK guns are licenced and we have to apply for the licence (showing good cause) and provide secure metal case to keep them in. Vilains of course don't have to do this they just acquire the guns. Most farmers have guns and many rural citizens so even here if someone had designs on a 'shoot out' there would always be a way.
    "Everything that irritates us about others can lead us to an understanding of ourselves" C. G. Jung

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    Default Re: Media blackout: Oregon mall shooter was stopped by an armed citizen

    There is presently a major media manipulation being done on the arms subject in the US.

    It is a ode and funny subject the fire arms story.

    On one side we have the folks that are against all and any fire arms, and they think then an arm or a fire arm will start shooting folks on its own! We had this type of story here in Quebec, Canada, several years ago.

    The problem is then even if you restrict the fire arms, robbers, terrorist don't go and say I must register my fire arm because it is the law, they don't follow these type of laws.

    Here in Canada the federal government did finally decide to let go the fire arm register, they did spend millions and millions. Now the Quebec provincial government is in court with the federal government to retrieve the database. So now both governments are spending big amounts in court over this database.

    They for sure don't understand how fire arms work. They don't shoot alone.

    On the other side we have the folks that want to not be baby seat by the government, being told what they can and cannot have, do, eat or bred. And I must say in some field the governments are trying to control all like control freaks.

    But in the case of arms we must not allow the sick folks to have access to them and they must be helped, it is not only to eliminate an object, because at the place of a fire arms it could have been a car, hammer , screw driver, box cutter, a plane like the 911. Imagine trying to bane plans.
    Last edited by NewFounderHome; 23rd December 2012 at 01:08.

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    Default Re: Media blackout: Oregon mall shooter was stopped by an armed citizen

    Quote Posted by Kristin (here)
    Quote Posted by Flash (here)
    Sigma 6, a very difficult point seems not to cross the mind of may USA citizens.

    This forum is not uniquely American. There is people from all over the world on it. And frankly, most of us do not give a damn about the guns laws in USA and whatever it may or may not bring/give. In fact, we do not understand that fascinations americans seems to have for their arms (to us, it is perceived as fascination, not self protection). Also, most of us do not have rights to bear arms in our constitution or our laws, yet our countries are quite quiet when we compare, in a murder/#of citizens ratio, when compared with the USA. Our countries are not the designers of wars either, on average. So, we wonder....

    This statement is plainly a description of ways of thinking elsewhere on the planet. Another view of the world. It is very plain, it cannot be discussed much not more than your "fascination for guns" can be, it is culturally biaised.

    With this in mind, 8-9 answers is not surprising to me at all. May be the question should be why not more American, actually on this forum, took the hint and wrote.

    Those discussions are extremely culturally self centered in our views. So, this is an American thread for most of us and we have nothing to write in it.
    Hello Flash, I respect your opinion. However please do take into consideration that you are speaking for yourself and not a group of people. Others here on this forum are perfectly able to speak for themselves as well. Their opinions will be unique and varied as we all are individuals here. You use the words "we, our, and us" when describing your individual opinion. There may be a cultural slant one way or the other, but perhaps I'm feeling this due to a nationalist perspective that is strong in you. What ever the case, I just thought I would point it out.

    From the Heart,
    Kristin[COLOR="red"]
    There is definitely a cultural slant in what I said, that I called cultural biais, as well as in what Americans say about arms. This was my point precisely.

    I writing in "we" because I report what I heard on the subject, from outside USA, when people are aware of the arms policies in the USA, which is usually not the case. The few that are, they just do not understand on average what it is about arms that is so essential. I talk in "we", not for the members of this forum, but for the larger populations I have been in contact with in Canada, Central America, Turkey, France. The kind of comments that I have is what is it about arms in USA, we do not understand.

    When I read this forum, I often have the feeling that most American do not see that they are the only ones in the world to have arms ownership in their constitution. They do not, at least it is my feeling, realise that outside USA, we do not quite catch why their arms are so important to them. Some of us have the feeling that it is a remnant of the old Far West mentality (which may not be the case in reality). The latter always makes me smile when I hear it.

    All I am talking about here is a question of PERCEPTIONS, which are always somewhat biaised.

    Nevertherless, just that I brought up that topic under this angle did stimulate more answers on that thread. I hope those who could not believe they had had only 8-9 posts are now happier.
    Last edited by Flash; 23rd December 2012 at 03:29.

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    Default Re: Media blackout: Oregon mall shooter was stopped by an armed citizen

    Quote Posted by andrewgreen (here)
    Good on the guy but I'm not sure why the media arn't running with the story?
    They support gun control. The media is just part of the government. You must have missed the memo.

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    Default Re: Media blackout: Oregon mall shooter was stopped by an armed citizen

    Nevertherless, just that I brought up that topic under this angle did stimulate more answers on that thread. I hope those who could not believe they had had only 8-9 posts are now happier.

    you can take the credit if you want, I was hoping that people would go to the wider net... I was more concerned about putting the TRUTH out there, where it can do some good, in front of a few million eye balls ideally... an honest man with a gun in the crowd made a difference, many deaths could be curtailed or prevented if other parties were able to defend themselves, disarming registered licensed citizens doesn't do anything to disarm criminals, therefore it is the opposite of a solution... within this context, at this time
    "We shall not cease from exploration, and the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time"
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    Default Re: Media blackout: Oregon mall shooter was stopped by an armed citizen

    Quote Posted by sigma6 (here)
    .. an honest man with a gun in the crowd made a difference, many deaths could be curtailed or prevented if other parties were able to defend themselves, disarming registered licensed citizens doesn't do anything to disarm criminals, therefore it is the opposite of a solution... within this context, at this time
    I would not encourage "registered" or "licensed" both those terms IMPLY permission.

    now I could possibly see a caveat that when carrying a weapon "concealed" training of some sort is "required" but open carry should always be legal by anyone, and anywhere that the public is allowed to go. I'm a bit torn between not restricting at all and agreeing that some training is highly benificial.
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