The effect of Doubt (and after post #9, Jake asks to be unsubscribed)

[kingmonkey]

I think tony's response to all this was in his new thread called beyond doubt on the 25th. As usual the response is erudite and typically buddhist.

Personally i found tony's posts to be annoying, BUT and i must stress i have nothing against Tony. Thats just my subjective experience.

Others do find them useful but for me, they are just not my cup of tea.

And i took them in that light, thanks but no thanks.

[greybeard]

I cant help but notice there has not been a single post from Tony or Kathie for quite some time.
Chris

[Curt]

Hopefully he's having some productive away time and will come back as and when he's ready.

Posted by greybeard (here)
I cant help but notice there has not been a single post from Tony or Kathie for quite some time.
Chris

[greybeard]

Jake has not surfaced either.
It would be a pity to loose three contributing members over what? !!!!
Fair enough Tony is not everybody’s cup of tea but there are many other posters here that one can read, discuss with, debate or just lurk.
Im not defending, criticising or judging --- just a bit sad.
This is an excellent forum with something for everyone.

Chris

[blufire]

I second greybeard’s post #124 . . . . .

I have been away from the forum for the most part for almost two weeks. I was more than stunned with this whole event.

Bill, I rarely question your actions but in this case I do have to say I feel there is more to this episode than meets the eye. Obviously this is none of my business other than the ripple effect it has caused throughout the forum of which I am a part of . . . . and that I consider Kathie and Tony very good friends and anchors for the forum.. I did not have any direct contact with Jake but always respected and appreciated his presence.

Bill, I will also have to say that I wish you would just come out with it.

What I mean is . . . I am mostly a watcher and listener on the forum . . . I don’t post that much. I do not really fit into any of the more defined groups or cliques on the forum or in my life outside the forum for that matter. And I am comfortable with this. I feel my (basically) unemotional attachment enables me to see things differently and perhaps clearer than most.

You have been alluding to many things the past several months. Very covertly and elusively imho. For me, your presence and involvement on the forum has changed dramatically over the past year . . . I felt this was mostly personal life events and managing your own personal journey . . . . but I feel there is much more.

I am a nuts and bolts kind of gal and become frustrated and irritated when I feel someone is ‘toying with me’ or ‘pussy footing around’ and I feel to a large degree this is what you have been doing for many months now . . . not to me personally but to the forum as a whole.

Are you waiting for more of us ‘to get it’ . . . . Are you waiting to see who is wise enough to interrupt your hints . . . . . Are you waiting to see who can put all the hints together to have an ‘light bulb’ moment?

You have mentioned several times that we who live in the States should move and specifically to Ecuador. But you give no actual valid reason.

You trigger on threads like The Chicago False Flag and astrid’s thread about Duncan and 2013. If you have more solid information from your numerous ‘insider type involvement’ then would you please just come out with it?

It is (one of) your hope and desires that we begin the generational work of cleaning up our mess here on our beautiful planet. Well, I personally have made very huge life changing decisions the past few years based largely on these pleas you have made and more importantly because this ideal sings loud and clear to my soul.

Well Mr. Ryan . . . . just like me I’m sure there are thousands that come to this forum who have rolled up their sleeves and are ready to have at it. . . . .and we are waiting and waiting to see which direction in which to go or to ‘hitch our wagon’.

Yes, there is much to do right here in my little mountain town and I am giving her the best go I can possibly muster. But I need a bigger goal in which to tie my little personal movement to . . . . if we are to begin this generational work on a planetary scale.

We on a personal single level can do good works but if we are not United on a direction with a foundation then that sweat equity has no real future generational planetary return.

I ‘get it’, the depth and breadth of this endeavor . . . . but my ‘get it’ from this forum is just about ready to ‘get up and go’. But perhaps like (it appears) Kathie and Tony I am not the type of soldier you or the initiative you (possibly) are a part of desire to have in the ranks.

We are big girls and boys and we don’t have much time (I feel) to find our footing on a planetary scale and ‘get er’ done’ or at least to get it started.

So if we here in the U.S. need to duck and cover would you please just let us know and be more realistic that we all can just up and move to Ecuador or even want to . . . . this is our home ‘come hell or high water’

There many things you have alluded to over the past year . . . . could you please just quit the alluding and spit it out? We have lost many many solid members of this forum over the last couple years and feel it is largely to this mushy milk toast foundation (imo) the forum has become.

We are here and ready to go . . . . just a bit of encouragement and direction would be helpful.

I have to go now and walk 200 acres of strip mined land and take soil samples to see what needs to be done to plant a vineyard next year and then convince The Bureau of Land Management of Virginia that this is a better way to reclaim ravaged land than planting kudzu.

[noxon medem]

..
-

There seems to be a possible
very positive side (effect) to doubt ...

Flow seems to be a key word ..



- sorry , word sometime escape me ,
or so nn seem to allude me .
( somehow, lately . ).

So, here is another image :
( could be just for fun ..).



..
-

[onawah]

It seems kind of funny that so many members have conjectured that Jake left Avalon due to posts from Pi'ne'al and/or Tarka.
Because as far as I am aware, we still don't really know why he left, and there could have been any number of reasons.
I tend to doubt that tempest in a teacup with Pi'ne'al/Tarka could have been the reason, unless it was a case of the final straw.
But I think Jake would probably have given some indication before hand if that had been the case...

[blufire]

Posted by onawah (here)
It seems kind of funny that so many members have conjectured that Jake left Avalon due to posts from Pi'ne'al and/or Tarka.
Because as far as I am aware, we still don't really know why he left, and there could have been any number of reasons.
I tend to doubt that tempest in a teacup with Pi'ne'al/Tarka could have been the reason, unless it was a case of the final straw.
But I think Jake would probably have given some indication before hand if that had been the case...

onawah . . . . did you miss Bill's post #13 on this thread?

[onawah]

I did see that post, which I have copied here, but there is still, as far as I am aware, no absolute surety as to why Jake quit the forum, because he hasn't told us, and he is the only one who really knows.
The only thing we really know is the timing, which of course, leads to the the conclusions that most have drawn, but we still don't really know for sure what Jake's reason was for leaving Avalon.

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
-------

Dear Friends,

Shortly after his last post above, Jake asked Paul by private message to unsubscribe him from the forum immediately. Paul did so, assuring him by e-mail that he would be more than welcome to return at any time.

The e-mail bounced. As best I know, we have no way of communicating with him now, and so I very much hope that he will notice and read this post.

Jake was a credit to the forum, and was a great friend of many. He cared deeply about people's personal suffering. New members may not know that he was also a loved and respected member of the moderators team for quite a while.

My view of what has happened is this.

Posted by Tarka the Duck (here)
Dear Jake

When reading your post, I was reminded of how we know absolutely nothing of the day-to- day lives and actions of the person whom we are judging, and often base our opinions upon our own blinkered assumptions.

Thanks for the timely reminder.

Kathie

This post by Kathie is covertly hostile, carefully disguised, and was responsible for prompting Jake to leave. It had the effect of a carefully-wielded stiletto that kills but barely leaves a visible entry wound.

Members may be noticing that Tony (pie'n'eal) and Kathie (Tarka the Duck, who is his wife) often operate as a kind of tag team on threads. The way they work issues they have decided to promote is very borderline as far as forum protocols are concerned -- in my opinion. It's close to sockpuppetting each other's posts with an agreed agenda.

This has been clear for a while, and I have drawn the moderators' attention to this. Meanwhile, pie'n'eal is, also in my opinion, arrogant and over-intellectual, knows rather less than he believes he does, and misuses the forum to grandstand as a kind of self-appointed teacher. I feel strongly that the forum has lost out through this silly incident.

[crosby]

onawah, i agree with what you are saying. as far as i have been able to discern, there is no proof that this lies strictly at the hands of Tony and/or Kathy. it could be a culmination of many different things. i myself have not been participating here for many different reasons. not for any one specific response. i do not agree that there is a given 'tag team' going on. but this is just my opinion. of course they are going to be privy to the threads that they are both involved with, i feel that this is a natural state when a husband and wife are both members. i just do not see what some others do about kathies' response. i support everyone (nearly) here at avalon, and i am sure that there could be many different reasons why Jake decided to leave. i wish i knew him better, but it has been my experience that we never met often, so i support Tony and Kathy in this matter. i hope that everyone returns. sometimes, seeing the good instead of imagining the bad is what i do.
love to you all, warmest and strongest hopes of returns, corson

[Tony]

Happy new year everyone!


Some of us are the way we are, because that is the way we are. Everyone has a right to their say,
everyone has a right to their opinion, but that is only a reflection of what is going on in 'our' mind.

Ah! See... he's doing it again!

This year could be very tough for all of us, so a firm foundation mentally and spiritually is needed.
If we get easily spooked by others, we will wind up exhausted to say the least!
That is why ending Doubt, and going Beyond Doubt is so important.
https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...3-Beyond-Doubt.

If a point of view is unsatisfying, we need to find something satisfying.
If we condemn a point of view, we need to replace it with something better.

When replying in a discussion it is good to give as full an answer as possible,
so that others interested in the thread can get a better picture of what is being talked about.
I appreciate and am grateful to anyone who takes the time to explain what they mean,
even though I may not be easy to understand.

When we know what we are, and have no doubt, then we can no longer wobble.



All the best for the new year, love,
Tony

[crosby]

i hope i didn't wobble. welcome back. you have been missed!!!!!!! i hope tarka/Kathy is right behind..... love to you both!!! you are appreciated, you are loved, you are here, you are home. most humble apologies and welcomes!!!!!!
love, corson

no matter how arrogant you are!!!!!!!!!

[Tarka the Duck]

To whom it may concern

Until now, I have chosen not visit this thread, but I just inadvertently read Bill's original message. It's a shame that neither of us have ever been told of these concerns until now.

As these accusation were made in public, I feel it's only fair to request that each of the charges made against me is backed up with evidence so that I can avoid such a situation in future. Maybe a mod could PM me with details?

It's a new year and a new start: I wish everyone health and happiness in 2013!

Kathie

PS...and the only time I remember Tony and I working as a tag team was at a crowded wedding reception, when we acted seamlessly together to acquire a decent amount of nibbles from the buffet…

[shijo]

Happy new year To the Duck and Pieman(sounds like the name of a pub),Bodhisattvas appear in many guises according to the needs of the people.And what is the purpose of a Bodhisattva? Simply to relieve suffering and bring happiness to all beings.Iknow this is what is in your hearts and in the hearts of others here.regards Shijo.

[Pam]

Thank you pie'n'eal for living what you teach. You have brightened my day. pam

[gooty64]

Hi Tony,
I miss your threads.
There have been some really dark energies and entities flying around Avalon in the past month or so.
I hope you start posting again, and say Hi to the Mrs. from me,
Gooty-Alan

[gooty64]

Posted by gooty64 (here)

This pure awareness

he-the OP-said something about.

I have this pure awareness for about 30-90 seconds +or- upon awakening from sleep.

Why is it so fleeting? Within just seconds it fades and the story and the personal problems, daily details all emerge to fill the space that just moments before had been so empty and pure.

Is it just me or does anyone else's mind race with trivial junk and endless details and thoughts of the past/future etc?

Time to clean house

The good news is that I have been able to expand on the morning clarity (in spite of my dogs-lol). I journal right away and I meditate/remain still and expand on the wisdom/clarity from the "other world".

[soleil]

as a new member, i was just beginning to learn/notice how much of an asset jake was/is. damnit dude (im talking to jake here), with all the crap happening in the world, surely this is a much better environment to learn from eachother/teach eachother/be with like minds(for the most part).
i wish you'd come back. that is all i wanted to add.

[Wind]

Why hasn't Tony posted anything in weeks? This forum needs his witty humour!

[greybeard]

Posted by StarSeed (here)
Why hasn't Tony posted anything in weeks? This forum needs his witty humour!

Yes I miss his vibrancy.
He is doing other things in his studio at the moment.
I like your avatar Star Seed--- Whirling dervish comes to mind.

Chris