+ Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1 2 4 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 76

Thread: The Negative Space

  1. Link to Post #21
    UK Deactivated
    Join Date
    15th November 2011
    Age
    51
    Posts
    924
    Thanks
    10,099
    Thanked 5,969 times in 881 posts

    Default Re: The Negative Space

    Quote Posted by Freed Fox (here)
    Quote Posted by Jenci (here)

    The absolute Truth is that there are no individual and when that is realised what used to be considered reality makes another shift and it is seen for the illusion it is.

    [...]

    The problem comes when the “teachers” sell what they are teaching as the absolute Truth
    . This is where it is misleading for those few who feel compelled to seek something beyond all the fascinating phenomena that this life has to offer.
    Careful...

    That piece of information never does go down well. It didn't with me either....and rightly so. As individuals we are made to resist extinction.

    But it doesn't matter what I say about it or anyone else for that matter. People have to investigate this and discover the higher truth for themselves. Its about realisation not about knowledge being imparted or received.


    I shall leave it here in this thread. Thank you.

    Jeanette

  2. The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to Jenci For This Post:

    another bob (19th January 2013), AwakeInADream (20th January 2013), Eram (19th January 2013), Finefeather (20th January 2013), Freed Fox (19th January 2013), greybeard (19th January 2013), markpierre (20th January 2013), Wind (20th January 2013)

  3. Link to Post #22
    United States Unsubscribed
    Join Date
    21st September 2011
    Location
    Paradise CA
    Age
    70
    Posts
    2,315
    Thanks
    12,690
    Thanked 21,221 times in 2,274 posts

    Default Re: The Negative Space

    Quote Posted by greybeard (here)
    The moment enlightenment occurs there is the realisation that there never was an individual person to incur karma.
    Once when Hyakujo delivered some Zen lectures an old man attended them, unseen by the monks. At the end of each talk when the monks left so did he. But one day he remained after they had gone, and Hyakujo asked him: `Who are you?'

    The old man replied: `I am not a human being, but I was a human being when the Kashapa Buddha preached in this world. I was a Zen master and lived on this mountain. At that time one of my students asked me whether the enlightened man is subject to the law of causation. I answered him: "The enlightened man is not subject to the law of causation."

    For this answer evidencing a clinging to absoluteness I became a fox for five hundred rebirths, and I am still a fox. Will you save me from this condition with your Zen words and let me get out of a fox's body? Now may I ask you: Is the enlightened man subject to the law of causation?'

    Hyakujo said: `The enlightened man is one with the law of causation.'

    At the words of Hyakujo the old man was enlightened. `I am emancipated,' he said, paying homage with a deep bow. `I am no more a fox, but I have to leave my body in my dwelling place behind this mountain. Please perform my funeral as a monk.' Then he disappeared.

    The next day Hyakujo gave an order through the chief monk to prepare to attend the funeral of a monk. `No one was sick in the infirmary,' wondered the monks. `What does our teacher mean?'

    After dinner Hyakujo led the monks out and around the mountain. In a cave, with his staff he poked out the corpse of an old fox and then performed the ceremony of cremation.

    That evening Hyakujo gave a talk to the monks and told this story about the law of causation (and the "Freed Fox").


  4. Link to Post #23
    Scotland Avalon Member greybeard's Avatar
    Join Date
    17th March 2010
    Location
    Inverness-----Scotland
    Age
    74
    Posts
    9,956
    Thanks
    23,229
    Thanked 51,198 times in 8,664 posts

    Default Re: The Negative Space

    Hi Bob
    The late Dr Hawkins did say, I recall, that whilst the enlightened are beyond personal karma there is still karma--- I cant remember the terminology he used but what you have posted I suspect sums it up.
    He also said the void is not a true reality--he ended up there before this birth and while it seems very real it lacks Divine love.
    So he had to take on another birth to resolve that.

    Chris

    Thanks Chris
    A charity to help African Children become self sufficient. :attention:

    http://www.learningtoolsforselfdevelopment.co.uk/

    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

  5. The Following 10 Users Say Thank You to greybeard For This Post:

    another bob (19th January 2013), AwakeInADream (20th January 2013), Eram (20th January 2013), Finefeather (20th January 2013), Flash (21st January 2013), Gardener (20th January 2013), Jenci (20th January 2013), lookbeyond (20th January 2013), markpierre (20th January 2013), Wind (20th January 2013)

  6. Link to Post #24
    United States Unsubscribed
    Join Date
    21st September 2011
    Location
    Paradise CA
    Age
    70
    Posts
    2,315
    Thanks
    12,690
    Thanked 21,221 times in 2,274 posts

    Default Re: The Negative Space

    Quote Posted by greybeard (here)
    He also said the void is not a true reality--he ended up there before this birth and while it seems very real it lacks Divine love.
    So he had to take on another birth to resolve that.
    Conversely, the neurosurgeon in the news recently, talking about his nde, indicated that the Void was impregnated with Love, so what does that tell us about subjectivity?




    PS: One of my favorite mystics on the subject:

    "Once my soul was elevated, & I saw the light,
    the beauty, & the fullness that is in God in a way that
    I had never seen before in so great a manner.

    I did not see love there. I then lost the love which was mine,
    & was made non- love. Afterward, I saw him in a darkness, &
    in a darkness precisely because the good that he is, is far too
    great to be conceived or understood. Indeed, anything
    conceivable or understandable does not attain this good or
    even come near it.

    My soul was then granted a most certain faith, a secure &
    most firm hope, a continual security about God that took away
    all my fear. In this good, which is seen in the darkness, I
    recollected myself totally. I was made so sure of God that in
    no way can I ever entertain any doubts about him or of my
    possession of him .

    The All Good was all the more certain & superior to everything
    the more it was seen in darkness & most secret. This is why I
    see the All Good accompanied with darkness: because it
    surpasses every good. All else in comparison is but darkness.
    No matter how far the soul or heart expands itself, all that
    expanse is less than this good.

    What I related until now ~ that is, when the soul sees all
    creation overflowing with God's presence, when it sees the
    divine power or the divine wisdom ~ all this is inferior to this
    most secret good, because this good which I see with
    darkness is the whole, & all other things are but parts. "

    ~ Angela of Foligno
    Last edited by another bob; 19th January 2013 at 23:09.

  7. Link to Post #25
    Scotland Avalon Member greybeard's Avatar
    Join Date
    17th March 2010
    Location
    Inverness-----Scotland
    Age
    74
    Posts
    9,956
    Thanks
    23,229
    Thanked 51,198 times in 8,664 posts

    Default Re: The Negative Space

    Quote Posted by another bob (here)
    Quote Posted by greybeard (here)
    He also said the void is not a true reality--he ended up there before this birth and while it seems very real it lacks Divine love.
    So he had to take on another birth to resolve that.
    Conversely, the neurosurgeon in the news recently, talking about his nde, indicated that the Void was impregnated with Love, so what does that tell us about subjectivity?

    Depends on your definition of void---he was very clear on it--- prior to this life he was a Buddhist and he was under the impression that even love had to let go of (non attachment)--- so his belief of then took him to what he believed at the time of that exit from the body.
    He accepts that he had a misunderstanding of the teaching then.
    Difference is between no-thing and nothing-----no thing is formless but not nothing--not empty.
    My ability to explain what I mean is almost non existent at the moment.
    Chris
    A charity to help African Children become self sufficient. :attention:

    http://www.learningtoolsforselfdevelopment.co.uk/

    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

  8. The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to greybeard For This Post:

    another bob (19th January 2013), AwakeInADream (20th January 2013), Eram (20th January 2013), Finefeather (20th January 2013), Flash (21st January 2013), Jenci (20th January 2013), lookbeyond (20th January 2013), markpierre (20th January 2013)

  9. Link to Post #26
    United States Unsubscribed
    Join Date
    21st September 2011
    Location
    Paradise CA
    Age
    70
    Posts
    2,315
    Thanks
    12,690
    Thanked 21,221 times in 2,274 posts

    Default Re: The Negative Space

    Quote Posted by greybeard (here)
    Quote Posted by another bob (here)
    Quote Posted by greybeard (here)
    He also said the void is not a true reality--he ended up there before this birth and while it seems very real it lacks Divine love.
    So he had to take on another birth to resolve that.
    Conversely, the neurosurgeon in the news recently, talking about his nde, indicated that the Void was impregnated with Love, so what does that tell us about subjectivity?

    Depends on your definition of void---he was very clear on it--- prior to this life he was a Buddhist and he was under the impression that even love had to let go of (non attachment)--- so his belief of then took him to what he believed at the time of that exit from the body.
    He accepts that he had a misunderstanding of the teaching then.
    Difference is between no-thing and nothing-----no thing is formless but not nothing--not empty.
    My ability to explain what I mean is almost non existent at the moment.
    Chris
    Ah, OK, I see -- what he called the Void was actually one of the formless realms (as opposed to the true Void), where naughty Buddhists get sent when they cling to emptiness. It is not uncommon, and of course they need to return to get the truth about Love. It's one of the drawbacks I pointed out in my essay on Zen and the Emotional Contraction.

    http://theconsciousprocess.wordpress...l-contraction/

  10. Link to Post #27
    Avalon Member Freed Fox's Avatar
    Join Date
    10th December 2012
    Location
    neither here nor there
    Posts
    807
    Thanks
    4,728
    Thanked 5,810 times in 768 posts

    Default Re: The Negative Space

    Back to the negative space...

    It seems to me that there are far more pitfalls and traps, which serve to suck us back here, than there are pathways to true progress (a more harmonious incarnation). I try to live without attachment, but I am very attached to the idea that I don't want to come back here.
    Mercy, forgiveness, and compassion are the most virtuous forms of love
    Let your heart not be hardened by injustice and tribulation

  11. The Following 9 Users Say Thank You to Freed Fox For This Post:

    another bob (20th January 2013), AwakeInADream (20th January 2013), Eram (20th January 2013), Finefeather (20th January 2013), greybeard (20th January 2013), Jenci (20th January 2013), lookbeyond (20th January 2013), markpierre (20th January 2013), Wind (20th January 2013)

  12. Link to Post #28
    UK Avalon Member AwakeInADream's Avatar
    Join Date
    30th August 2012
    Location
    Source seen from a unique angle
    Posts
    581
    Thanks
    9,492
    Thanked 2,907 times in 540 posts

    Default Re: The Negative Space

    One type of negativity that is very useful is when I am told that I am wrong about something (especially if I am wrong).

    True progress can only be made after many many failures.

    So when I am in error, I 'enjoy' being told so, because this gives me the opportunity to correct myself.

    (So please, please, if anyone should see me in error, please point it out to me. I won't ever take it personally.)

    EDIT: A lot of people are saying lately, that they don't want to incarnate on Earth again next time. Really? Don't you want to see the job through until the end?

    I have hope that If we each keep coming back here, trying desperately to change the world little by little, that eventually the world will become perfect.

    Don't give up! Were getting there!(5 lifetimes more, maximum)
    Last edited by AwakeInADream; 20th January 2013 at 00:48.

  13. The Following 9 Users Say Thank You to AwakeInADream For This Post:

    another bob (20th January 2013), Eram (20th January 2013), Finefeather (20th January 2013), Flash (21st January 2013), Freed Fox (20th January 2013), Gardener (20th January 2013), Jenci (20th January 2013), lookbeyond (20th January 2013), markpierre (20th January 2013)

  14. Link to Post #29
    Avalon Member Freed Fox's Avatar
    Join Date
    10th December 2012
    Location
    neither here nor there
    Posts
    807
    Thanks
    4,728
    Thanked 5,810 times in 768 posts

    Default Re: The Negative Space

    Maybe, if I had the slightest clue as to what job I was supposed to be doing.

    I feel inherently out of place here. I have had that distinct impression all of my life, during the good times and the bad. As time goes on, the sensation only gets stronger. As we speak I am in the town where I spent my entire childhood. Yet I am utterly homesick.

    I don't claim to understand the nature of our souls and existence here, but it does seem to me that there are plenty of people relatively comfortable with being human to get the job done without me. Whatever that job is. I don't know what I am, but it isn't human. This is what has been demonstrated to me, time and time again. And no, this is no response to being a social outcast or reject. I've had many friends and very few 'enemies' (which I don't really consider them to be anymore).

    I'm kind of at a loss with this..
    Mercy, forgiveness, and compassion are the most virtuous forms of love
    Let your heart not be hardened by injustice and tribulation

  15. The Following 11 Users Say Thank You to Freed Fox For This Post:

    another bob (20th January 2013), AwakeInADream (20th January 2013), Eram (20th January 2013), Finefeather (20th January 2013), Gardener (20th January 2013), Jenci (20th January 2013), lookbeyond (20th January 2013), markpierre (20th January 2013), Orph (20th January 2013), westhill (20th January 2013), Wind (20th January 2013)

  16. Link to Post #30
    UK Avalon Member AwakeInADream's Avatar
    Join Date
    30th August 2012
    Location
    Source seen from a unique angle
    Posts
    581
    Thanks
    9,492
    Thanked 2,907 times in 540 posts

    Default Re: The Negative Space

    Hi FreedFox!

    I don't like having a body either sometimes. I'm much happier when I'm dreaming...

    Still I feel that life must have a purpose, otherwise it would just be torture wouldn't it.

    (I'm hoping someone smarter than me, can tell us what it is.)

  17. The Following 9 Users Say Thank You to AwakeInADream For This Post:

    another bob (20th January 2013), Eram (20th January 2013), Finefeather (20th January 2013), Flash (21st January 2013), Gardener (20th January 2013), Jenci (20th January 2013), lookbeyond (20th January 2013), markpierre (20th January 2013), Wind (20th January 2013)

  18. Link to Post #31
    Australia Avalon Retired Member
    Join Date
    9th June 2012
    Posts
    593
    Thanks
    7,258
    Thanked 2,412 times in 553 posts

    Default Re: The Negative Space

    Quote Posted by Freed Fox (here)
    Maybe, if I had the slightest clue as to what job I was supposed to be doing.

    I feel inherently out of place here. I have had that distinct impression all of my life, during the good times and the bad. As time goes on, the sensation only gets stronger. As we speak I am in the town where I spent my entire childhood. Yet I am utterly homesick.

    I don't claim to understand the nature of our souls and existence here, but it does seem to me that there are plenty of people relatively comfortable with being human to get the job done without me. Whatever that job is. I don't know what I am, but it isn't human. This is what has been demonstrated to me, time and time again. And no, this is no response to being a social outcast or reject. I've had many friends and very few 'enemies' (which I don't really consider them to be anymore).

    I'm kind of at a loss with this..


    Hi Freed Fox, i have found most recently a personal revelation came to me via dream. I for some time have set the intention before i go to sleep and then take note of my dream.I have found it most effective (having read this somewhere else on the forum) to lay in bed briefly after i awaken and go over my dream, i feel you are the best one to do this as you know your heart, sometimes when people share things aspects to the whole story may be left out for whatever reason.Look in your heart Freed Fox- it may take years- remember you are still in your twenties.Also,in the meantime you can make your (and someone elses) world a better place by engaging in some service to others type activity be it volunteer or income related, i am an RN and this part of my life is one of my most fulfilling,

    Kind Reguards to you, lookbeyond

  19. The Following 9 Users Say Thank You to lookbeyond For This Post:

    another bob (20th January 2013), AwakeInADream (20th January 2013), Eram (20th January 2013), Finefeather (20th January 2013), Flash (21st January 2013), Freed Fox (20th January 2013), Gardener (20th January 2013), Jenci (20th January 2013), markpierre (20th January 2013)

  20. Link to Post #32
    United States Unsubscribed
    Join Date
    21st September 2011
    Location
    Paradise CA
    Age
    70
    Posts
    2,315
    Thanks
    12,690
    Thanked 21,221 times in 2,274 posts

    Default Re: The Negative Space

    Quote Posted by Freed Fox (here)
    Maybe, if I had the slightest clue as to what job I was supposed to be doing.

    I feel inherently out of place here. I have had that distinct impression all of my life, during the good times and the bad. As time goes on, the sensation only gets stronger. As we speak I am in the town where I spent my entire childhood. Yet I am utterly homesick.

    I don't claim to understand the nature of our souls and existence here, but it does seem to me that there are plenty of people relatively comfortable with being human to get the job done without me. Whatever that job is. I don't know what I am, but it isn't human. This is what has been demonstrated to me, time and time again. And no, this is no response to being a social outcast or reject. I've had many friends and very few 'enemies' (which I don't really consider them to be anymore).

    I'm kind of at a loss with this..


    Nanci Danison had what the premier NDE researcher Kenneth Ring calls a "Trancendental NDE", in terms of both what she experienced, as well as what she was able to bring back and share. Trained as a lawyer, she is also quite articulate and detailed in her renderings.

    After reviewing her YouTube interviews, I was intrigued, because much of what she reported confirmed experiences of my own, as well as those of several friends who also had nde's and related at length to me about what they discovered in the process.

    Consequently, I purchased her books and was even more impressed with the breadth of her realizations. There have been several threads about her here at Avalon, and as mentioned, a good intro would be from her YT channel.

    Questioning one's life purpose is a universal inquiry, and yet it is rare that we come to a sense of clarity in this critical matter. The propaganda of this world, in fact, tends to even ridicule such pursuit in various ways, and most end up avoiding the issue until some sort of existential crisis forces us to confront it.

    In the following video, Nanci briefly shares what she learned in regard to our "purpose", while she was merged with Source during her nde. Actually, she says it wasn't an nde, but that she had in fact died, and only while merged with Source did she feel moved to return (and was permitted to by Source) to help correct the prevalent misunderstandings that are part of the consensus delusion when it comes to the issue of why we are here, and what we truly are. She goes into much more detail in her books, but here is a good intro on the subject:






    also related:





    Last edited by another bob; 20th January 2013 at 04:49.

  21. Link to Post #33
    UK Avalon Member AwakeInADream's Avatar
    Join Date
    30th August 2012
    Location
    Source seen from a unique angle
    Posts
    581
    Thanks
    9,492
    Thanked 2,907 times in 540 posts

    Default Re: The Negative Space

    Quote Posted by another bob (here)
    Quote Posted by greybeard (here)
    He also said the void is not a true reality--he ended up there before this birth and while it seems very real it lacks Divine love.
    So he had to take on another birth to resolve that.
    Conversely, the neurosurgeon in the news recently, talking about his nde, indicated that the Void was impregnated with Love, so what does that tell us about subjectivity?




    PS: One of my favorite mystics on the subject:

    "Once my soul was elevated, & I saw the light,
    the beauty, & the fullness that is in God in a way that
    I had never seen before in so great a manner.

    I did not see love there. I then lost the love which was mine,
    & was made non- love. Afterward, I saw him in a darkness, &
    in a darkness precisely because the good that he is, is far too
    great to be conceived or understood. Indeed, anything
    conceivable or understandable does not attain this good or
    even come near it.

    My soul was then granted a most certain faith, a secure &
    most firm hope, a continual security about God that took away
    all my fear. In this good, which is seen in the darkness, I
    recollected myself totally. I was made so sure of God that in
    no way can I ever entertain any doubts about him or of my
    possession of him .

    The All Good was all the more certain & superior to everything
    the more it was seen in darkness & most secret. This is why I
    see the All Good accompanied with darkness: because it
    surpasses every good. All else in comparison is but darkness.
    No matter how far the soul or heart expands itself, all that
    expanse is less than this good.

    What I related until now ~ that is, when the soul sees all
    creation overflowing with God's presence, when it sees the
    divine power or the divine wisdom ~ all this is inferior to this
    most secret good, because this good which I see with
    darkness is the whole, & all other things are but parts. "

    ~ Angela of Foligno
    This video has been posted elsewhere, but I think it belongs here too:


    A quote from the video:
    Quote "One does not become enlightened by imagining figures of light, but by making the darkness conscious." - Carl G. Jung

  22. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to AwakeInADream For This Post:

    another bob (20th January 2013), Eram (20th January 2013), Finefeather (20th January 2013), Gardener (20th January 2013), Jenci (20th January 2013), markpierre (20th January 2013)

  23. Link to Post #34
    Avalon Retired Member
    Join Date
    24th September 2011
    Location
    Where I am
    Posts
    1,416
    Thanks
    4,787
    Thanked 7,448 times in 1,312 posts

    Default Re: The Negative Space

    Quote Posted by Freed Fox (here)
    Maybe, if I had the slightest clue as to what job I was supposed to be doing.

    I feel inherently out of place here. I have had that distinct impression all of my life, during the good times and the bad. As time goes on, the sensation only gets stronger. As we speak I am in the town where I spent my entire childhood. Yet I am utterly homesick.

    I don't claim to understand the nature of our souls and existence here, but it does seem to me that there are plenty of people relatively comfortable with being human to get the job done without me. Whatever that job is. I don't know what I am, but it isn't human. This is what has been demonstrated to me, time and time again. And no, this is no response to being a social outcast or reject. I've had many friends and very few 'enemies' (which I don't really consider them to be anymore).

    I'm kind of at a loss with this..
    Damn, you're still in loss. It feels like loss. It's grief. You're losing key components of your little self. The bits that keep it sedated.
    I'll cave in here and give you a gem from ACIM (it's okay, it's Jesus)

    "I do not know what anything is for"......Lesson # can't remember. Early on.

    Anything. ANYTHING. I do not know. But I can know this; that it is for something. It doesn't say 'nothing'.

    You're in a great spot. It's not what you're looking at, or what you're thinking. It's how you feel. If you can just not
    sedate yourself somehow with distractions, or even answers. Even looking for answers. Give up.

    The answer is it wants you to be with it,
    and that's not the answer you want.
    And it's because it's not the answer that you want that you suffer. It's something you need to do and so you're doing it.
    It could feel good to be doing that.

    So an experiment? You stay with it. I'll promise you something will happen. At least it will shift, because it's true, 'this too shall pass'.
    That aching longing self gets replaced by a determined self. And he holds the ticket. You can't do it without him.
    He doesn't stop longing, but he's on to the next experience and the next and the next. His eye stays on the prize.
    You're having an experience. It's as holy and divine and expanding as any other mystical experience.
    Mystical is mystery. What's it for?
    'I do not know.' Later I'll know, and I'm sure I'll be grateful.

    I've seen it. If you haven't, the energy of faith is 100X that of evidence. You have 100X more velocity than I do.
    What you cannot see, yet know of that defies belief and defines Reality. Now you being in this world, how would you know about that?
    From you, who's not from here.

    Dreams come true. This dream comes true to itself. It/you/we need to see it's/our fraudulence clearly, before we can do that. I mean all of it.
    It's not about sin and evil and guilt and worthiness and manifesting s#it in a nicer package. It's about uncovering the truth.

    The truth of you will really surprise you.

  24. The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to markpierre For This Post:

    another bob (20th January 2013), AwakeInADream (20th January 2013), Eram (20th January 2013), Finefeather (20th January 2013), Fred Steeves (20th January 2013), Freed Fox (20th January 2013), Gardener (20th January 2013), Jenci (20th January 2013)

  25. Link to Post #35
    South Africa Avalon Retired Member
    Join Date
    14th May 2012
    Location
    South Africa
    Age
    73
    Posts
    1,125
    Thanks
    5,043
    Thanked 7,452 times in 1,084 posts

    Default Re: The Negative Space

    Hi bob
    I think Nanci Danison is quite refreshing, thanks for the videos.

    In the second video where she talks of karma, she seems to imply that karma is some kind of judgement and so concludes that karma is non existent because there is no judgement. These two concepts are not synonymous in this instance because karma does not mean judgement or payback.
    Exactly what she actually describes as our reasons for reincarnation is in fact karma...she might just not understand the word properly...but in any case I am really not concerned with this error because she has actually described the right thing and that is all that really matters...

    We should however see the word karma from a different angle in order to understand it properly.

    Karma is actually a lower vibrational state which we need to transmute into a higher vibrational state. In the physical world here on earth this transmutation is achieved by our attitudes and deeds and...whatever is the quality of these, is the consequence of the vibrational state we find ourselves in when we die. So the judgement part is non existent because it has got nothing to do with what we did in our previous life because it is 'registered' as a vibrational concept and not a specific act which we performed in the previous life...this is known as abstraction.
    This vibrational state, which we are in, at any physical death, is the thing which prevents access to higher dimensions and a real ascension out of the reincarnation cycle.
    The way we correct this...lets call it negative state...can be achieved in many different ways but the life is always chosen which would best influence that state of vibration which we need to uplift, with the primary goal of achieving the ascension or enlightened state. This is often achieved by what might appear to be a payback scenario but is not actually the case. Having a tough life is not always the outcome of karma...it could just as easily be a result of our own bad choices in the current one.

    Now this is often quite confusing to some because we see some people spend lifetimes in monasteries to achieve the enlightened state and others are living in a back street alley and also somehow achieve enlightenment...I know of a mother with children who achieved the enlightened state. What is going on here we might ask?

    The fact is that there are no rules to achieving this state. We can achieve it in any place we like, eating any food we like, drinking anything we like...as long as our attitude, morals and deeds are in order and that what we do does not effect the life of another in any negative way...and that we love unconditionally. We can achieve this state in 1 day...1 month...1 year...1 lifetime or multiple lifetimes.
    The problem is that most people are not aware of this and so do not prepare or work at it.

    Like someone once said...”I have worked hard all my life, treated everyone kindly, given everything to the poor, healed the sick and loved even my worst enemies, and still have not achieved enlightenment”...and he was told...”That my dear friend is because you already are enlightened...what did you expect...an interview with God, when that is who you have been all this time?”

    Love to all
    Ray
    Last edited by Finefeather; 20th January 2013 at 12:14.

  26. The Following 10 Users Say Thank You to Finefeather For This Post:

    another bob (20th January 2013), AwakeInADream (20th January 2013), Eram (20th January 2013), Flash (21st January 2013), Fred Steeves (20th January 2013), Freed Fox (20th January 2013), Gardener (20th January 2013), Jenci (20th January 2013), markpierre (20th January 2013), Orph (20th January 2013)

  27. Link to Post #36
    South Africa Avalon Retired Member
    Join Date
    14th May 2012
    Location
    South Africa
    Age
    73
    Posts
    1,125
    Thanks
    5,043
    Thanked 7,452 times in 1,084 posts

    Default Re: The Negative Space

    Quote Posted by markpierre (here)
    Quote Posted by Freed Fox (here)
    Maybe, if I had the slightest clue as to what job I was supposed to be doing.

    I feel inherently out of place here. I have had that distinct impression all of my life, during the good times and the bad. As time goes on, the sensation only gets stronger. As we speak I am in the town where I spent my entire childhood. Yet I am utterly homesick.

    I don't claim to understand the nature of our souls and existence here, but it does seem to me that there are plenty of people relatively comfortable with being human to get the job done without me. Whatever that job is. I don't know what I am, but it isn't human. This is what has been demonstrated to me, time and time again. And no, this is no response to being a social outcast or reject. I've had many friends and very few 'enemies' (which I don't really consider them to be anymore).

    I'm kind of at a loss with this..
    Damn, you're still in loss. It feels like loss. It's grief. You're losing key components of your little self. The bits that keep it sedated.
    I'll cave in here and give you a gem from ACIM (it's okay, it's Jesus)

    "I do not know what anything is for"......Lesson # can't remember. Early on.

    Anything. ANYTHING. I do not know. But I can know this; that it is for something. It doesn't say 'nothing'.

    You're in a great spot. It's not what you're looking at, or what you're thinking. It's how you feel. If you can just not
    sedate yourself somehow with distractions, or even answers. Even looking for answers. Give up.

    The answer is it wants you to be with it,
    and that's not the answer you want.
    And it's because it's not the answer that you want that you suffer. It's something you need to do and so you're doing it.
    It could feel good to be doing that.

    So an experiment? You stay with it. I'll promise you something will happen. At least it will shift, because it's true, 'this too shall pass'.
    That aching longing self gets replaced by a determined self. And he holds the ticket. You can't do it without him.
    He doesn't stop longing, but he's on to the next experience and the next and the next. His eye stays on the prize.
    You're having an experience. It's as holy and divine and expanding as any other mystical experience.
    Mystical is mystery. What's it for?
    'I do not know.' Later I'll know, and I'm sure I'll be grateful.

    I've seen it. If you haven't, the energy of faith is 100X that of evidence. You have 100X more velocity than I do.
    What you cannot see, yet know of that defies belief and defines Reality. Now you being in this world, how would you know about that?
    From you, who's not from here.

    Dreams come true. This dream comes true to itself. It/you/we need to see it's/our fraudulence clearly, before we can do that. I mean all of it.
    It's not about sin and evil and guilt and worthiness and manifesting s#it in a nicer package. It's about uncovering the truth.

    The truth of you will really surprise you.
    Beautiful Post markpierre...thanks
    Love you brother
    Ray

  28. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Finefeather For This Post:

    AwakeInADream (20th January 2013), Flash (21st January 2013), Gardener (20th January 2013), Jenci (20th January 2013), markpierre (20th January 2013)

  29. Link to Post #37
    Unsubscribed
    Join Date
    7th December 2010
    Location
    Blaine, Tennessee
    Age
    53
    Posts
    3,386
    Thanks
    21,152
    Thanked 26,954 times in 3,187 posts

    Default Re: The Negative Space

    Quote Posted by Finefeather (here)
    Now this is often quite confusing to some because we see some people spend lifetimes in monasteries to achieve the enlightened state and others are living in a back street alley and also somehow achieve enlightenment...I know of a mother with children who achieved the enlightened state. What is going on here we might ask?

    The fact is that there are no rules to achieving this state. We can achieve it in any place we like, eating any food we like, drinking anything we like...as long as our attitude, morals and deeds are in order and that what we do does not effect the life of another in any negative way...and that we love unconditionally.
    I love it Ray, beautifully put. It's not about memorizing sacred texts(although they do come in handy), it's not about following the rules, and it's certainly not about being a saint.(LOL) Everybody finds their own way home, and in their own unique way.

    Each "way" is absolutely perfect, and to be applauded upon completion.

  30. Link to Post #38
    Avalon Retired Member
    Join Date
    24th September 2011
    Location
    Where I am
    Posts
    1,416
    Thanks
    4,787
    Thanked 7,448 times in 1,312 posts

    Default Re: The Negative Space

    Quote Posted by Fred Steeves (here)
    Quote Posted by Finefeather (here)
    Now this is often quite confusing to some because we see some people spend lifetimes in monasteries to achieve the enlightened state and others are living in a back street alley and also somehow achieve enlightenment...I know of a mother with children who achieved the enlightened state. What is going on here we might ask?

    The fact is that there are no rules to achieving this state. We can achieve it in any place we like, eating any food we like, drinking anything we like...as long as our attitude, morals and deeds are in order and that what we do does not effect the life of another in any negative way...and that we love unconditionally.
    I love it Ray, beautifully put. It's not about memorizing sacred texts(although they do come in handy), it's not about following the rules, and it's certainly not about being a saint.(LOL) Everybody finds their own way home, and in their own unique way.

    Each "way" is absolutely perfect, and to be applauded upon completion.
    Not these weird rules anyway.

    The guy who passes out against the roller door behind the bakery every night could be the one guy closest to God. Edging out billions. No one is ever more than one thought away from totality.
    It's finding that one thought. Maybe it's the one that got missed. Or it'll be that one because it's missed.
    What's interesting is the prospect of acknowledging every single path as exactly equal and worthy and blessed and purposed.
    Sanctioned by a bigger mind than ours.
    That'll f-up a few people.

    Ray; I think that when it's your time, it's your time.

  31. The Following 9 Users Say Thank You to markpierre For This Post:

    another bob (20th January 2013), AwakeInADream (20th January 2013), Eram (20th January 2013), Finefeather (20th January 2013), Flash (21st January 2013), Fred Steeves (20th January 2013), Jenci (20th January 2013), Lettherebelight (20th January 2013), Wind (20th January 2013)

  32. Link to Post #39
    Scotland Avalon Member greybeard's Avatar
    Join Date
    17th March 2010
    Location
    Inverness-----Scotland
    Age
    74
    Posts
    9,956
    Thanks
    23,229
    Thanked 51,198 times in 8,664 posts

    Default Re: The Negative Space

    Ramesh Balsekar (he translated for Nasargadatt before entering the state) said
    "God gave you an ego let him remove it"

    As far as I can see enlightenment is always an act of Grace--- you cant make it happen.

    I think most people on a spiritual path can identify with the opening post.
    It would seem to be a normal part of the process.
    Stuck in it (negative space) every day would not be the norm though.
    It comes and goes with me--- I just watch and let it be--- I dont energise anything by giving attention to it or running away from it.
    Chris
    A charity to help African Children become self sufficient. :attention:

    http://www.learningtoolsforselfdevelopment.co.uk/

    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

  33. The Following 9 Users Say Thank You to greybeard For This Post:

    another bob (20th January 2013), AwakeInADream (20th January 2013), Eram (20th January 2013), Finefeather (20th January 2013), Flash (21st January 2013), Freed Fox (20th January 2013), Gardener (20th January 2013), markpierre (20th January 2013), Wind (20th January 2013)

  34. Link to Post #40
    United States Unsubscribed
    Join Date
    21st September 2011
    Location
    Paradise CA
    Age
    70
    Posts
    2,315
    Thanks
    12,690
    Thanked 21,221 times in 2,274 posts

    Default Re: The Negative Space

    Quote Posted by Finefeather (here)
    The fact is that there are no rules to achieving this state. We can achieve it in any place we like, eating any food we like, drinking anything we like...as long as our attitude, morals and deeds are in order and that what we do does not effect the life of another in any negative way...and that we love unconditionally. We can achieve this state in 1 day...1 month...1 year...1 lifetime or multiple lifetimes.
    The problem is that most people are not aware of this and so do not prepare or work at it.
    Thanks for your comments, Ray.

    You say that there are no rules, "as long as our attitude, morals and deeds are in order and that what we do does not effect the life of another in any negative way..." and also that most people "do not prepare or work at it."


    I would say those requirements constitute rules, in the same way that eliminating greed, envy, hatred, and arrogance, and living with integrity, constitute rules.

    Furthermore, even following such guidelines will not lead to any enlightened state, since enlightenment is not a reward for good behavior. If anything, enlightenment is good behavior.

    Blessings!

+ Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1 2 4 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts