Their Mind and the Emotional Matrix that we create with it.

[modwiz]

Posted by wegge (here)
it´s really sad that 9e9 and seems like vivek also are going...
flyer in me says: "wtf are bill and the mods doing are they blind to what´s happening in this thread and others lately?"

this thread really helped to wake me up. I know maybe since 4-5 years about the concept of the ego (flyer, however you´d like to call it) but there was also this feeling, voice in me... yeah that´s cool but I really like who I am but I will do my best and change a few things... that´s always the flyer at work... you send it away he comes around another corner says: yes I will do some things better, but I´m also really good right know.. it´s like bootlicking yourself...
it´s also the voice which says: mhh lately things are getting a bit crazy I don´t know if I can handle it... if you start to emphasize with that than it has you again...
it´s always changing perspectives and tries to align you with him

the same thing when something really nice happens, you´re running around with friends having fun, laughing...then you take a second to think about: "Oh we are having so much fun" that´s the moment when the fun´s fading away because you´re no more feeling it but thinking about it..

I think you really have to grasp the extent of it and get angry about it, because when you think about oh yeah my ego(like a pet) I should tame it a bit at times, that´s really what it likes because it´s influencing you 24/7 and it´s not enough to spot it sometimes... even the spotting and following line of thought "yes I was behaving egoistic I should act otherwise the next time" is the flyers mind at work

that was just on my mind as I was reading about the unsubscription and a few things I was recognizing the last few days so it ended up in this post.

When two people go and put so much effort into pointing out the matrix and how it works only to find it right next to them is a wake up call. The Matrix mind owns the emotionally retarded and oversensitive. The Matrix is safe for them. They will protect their safe places. Our worst adversaries are not in offices, but in our homes and workplaces. They are the walking wounded.

[Hervé]

Posted by modwiz (here)
[...]

Our worst adversaries are not in offices, but in our homes and workplaces. They are the walking wounded.

I finally realized -- too late, sorry Chelley -- that in order to heal the wounded, the professional victim, one needs to address the overwhelmed being that's burried under the piles of wounds and to get that being back on its feet before it can, itself, lick its own wounds.

That was the mistake of Dianetics as compared to Scientology: Dianetics keeps addressing the bank/"their"/reactive mind and kept neglecting the being... and was going nowhere as far as improvement of the being went. Hence, Scientology as designed to bypass the bank/"their"/reactive mind and directly addressing the being, i.e. "spirit" and restoring its self-confidence, competence and abilities to handle its own bank/"their"/reactive mind.

Hitting the bank/"their"/reactive mind upfront and all one gets is a reaction. So, one has to bypass it and increase the being/spirit self-confidence and abilities on a gently sloped gradient... if the gradient is too steep, the being calls upon its ser-fac of "can't do it" and calls back "their" mind to function in the place of "it," the being/spirit. The lack of a gradient approach is then mistaken as a lack of compassion or empathy or "love"... whereas it was just a miscalculation of which gradient to take to approach each individual being/spirit. Hence it cannot be applied to a group, only to individuals, one by one.

So, yes, that's a tremendous task!

[8t88]

I am writing this post for a third time, with great effort. Needing to explain something and yet there is little to explain. Those who can analyze foreign mind at work clearly see all its delicate nudges. Those who can't do that yet are happy (at the moment) or sorry (at the moment) but it won't last -- there is another shiny toy around the corner to occupy our attention.

Unfortunately this is not the first time that I see outside influence at work and I think I understand its modus operandi. It will use temporary void to disrupt further. I can already see one thread that fits the description -- its timing will occupy Bill/mods/people attention for long enough to smudge any idea of what happened here.

Unfortunately we all do what we can within predefined boundaries and that's not 'good enough'.

I do perfectly understand mods - with 'community' in mind there is little they could do differently.
9e9 could not reach other people without shaking some of the masks away. Doing anything differently would have no effect at all. I have read several posts from different people that confirms this.
This all leads to paradox - you are damn if you do something and you are damn if you don't. I am speaking both about mods and 9e9.

Flier mind is expert in plotting between individual drives and group dynamics. If anybody has any idea how to break this dancing circle please let me know.

[modwiz]

Posted by Amzer Zo (here)

Posted by modwiz (here)
[...]

Our worst adversaries are not in offices, but in our homes and workplaces. They are the walking wounded.

I finally realized -- too late, sorry Chelley -- that in order to heal the wounded, the professional victim, one needs to address the overwhelmed being that's burried under the piles of wounds and to get that being back on its feet before it can, itself, lick its own wounds.

That was the mistake of Dianetics as compared to Scientology: Dianetics keeps addressing the bank/"their"/reactive mind and kept neglecting the being... and was going nowhere as far as improvement of the being went. Hence, Scientology as designed to bypass the bank/"their"/reactive mind and directly addressing the being, i.e. "spirit" and restoring its self-confidence, competence and abilities to handle its own bank/"their"/reactive mind.

Hitting the bank/"their"/reactive mind upfront and all one gets is a reaction. So, one has to bypass it and increase the being/spirit self-confidence and abilities on a gently sloped gradient... if the gradient is too steep, the being calls upon its ser-fac of "can't do it" and calls back "their" mind to function in the place of "it," the being/spirit. The lack of a gradient approach is then mistaken as a lack of compassion or empathy or "love"... whereas it was just a miscalculation of which gradient to take to approach each individual being/spirit. Hence it cannot be applied to a group, only to individuals, one by one.

So, yes, that's a tremendous task!

I disagree. Dianetics did not have it wrong. There is a difference between fresh off the battlefield or accident and the walking wounded. When you speak of piles of wounds, you refer to layering. This is like piles of unwashed clothes left there by an irresponsible person. Adults owe it to each other to show up in good shape, to take care of themselves. If one gets into trouble we will gladly pick up the slack while they get well. There is no excuse for piles of wounds. This is the sign of a "poor me" energy sucker. One of the four types of energy sucking described so brilliantly in the Celestine Prophecies. The process you speak of is a trap. One where we get sucked into dysfunction because we are compassionate. Sometimes we imagine ourselves in the others place and are care-taking ourselves. I say, do not project such a pathetic, weakened, useless vision of oneself into the future. Instead create oneself vibrant and managing challenges as they come instead of allowing piles of them to accumulate. I do not subscribe to a Darwinian survival of the fittest. I do subscribe to a Gaian survival of the fit. Like poor crops, the realities of the field will see some crops wither and die. Such genetics are better off not passed on.

I apologize if I somehow read your post incorrectly and misunderstood it, Amer Zo, my mind is a little distracted. You are a member of great worth and contributions.

[Flash]

Posted by Amzer Zo (here)

Posted by modwiz (here)
[...]

Our worst adversaries are not in offices, but in our homes and workplaces. They are the walking wounded.

I finally realized -- too late, sorry Chelley -- that in order to heal the wounded, the professional victim, one needs to address the overwhelmed being that's burried under the piles of wounds and to get that being back on its feet before it can, itself, lick its own wounds.

That was the mistake of Dianetics as compared to Scientology: Dianetics keeps addresing the bank/"their"/reactive mind and kept neglecting the being... and was going nowhere as far as improvement of the being went. Hence, Scientology as designed to bypass the bank/"their"/reactive mind and directly addressing the being, i.e. "spirit" and restauring its self-confidence, competence and abilities to handle its own bank/"their"/reactive mind.

Hitting the bank/"their"/reactive mind upfront and all one gets is a reaction. So, one has to bypass it and increase the being/spirit self-confidence and abilities on a gently sloped gradient... if the gradient is too steep, the being calls upon its ser-fac of "can't do it" and calls back "their" mind to function in the place of "it," the being/spirit. The lack of a gradient approach is then mistaken as a lack of compassion or empathy or "love"... whereas it was just a miscalculation of which gradient to take to approach each individual being/spirit. Hence it cannot be applied to a group, only to individuals, one by one.

So, yes, that's a tremendous task!

Really Amer zo, you are really on target here. This is the way to reach people and reach victims as well. And development is then on gradient. I truly liked the intervention or Ray on another thread who would rather retire from a thread instead of susciting controversy. The result were that the one making it controversial turned around since and saw its mistakes. Which would have never happend would there have been polarisation through controversy. And it is even more than to avoid the reactive mind to wake up, but to allow for the tissu to repair correctly (inner repair of course). The process needs to be assimilated and it is slow. I would have much to say about victim hood, having lived its status and studied it in depth, through experience as well as through research, but right not I have no time.

However, I would very much like to take the time for this:

I just learn that 9e9 has been unsuscribed. I am truly sorry for this. This is a very great loss to this forum and it makes it more difficult for Chelley to do her task as well. One has to work hard on a rough sea, but learning is also faster: learn to handle it or sink

Of course, a strong forum with strong people will bring attacks of all kinds. THIS IS TO BE EXPECTED and DEALT WITH. Members are inclusive in this dealing, not to be exculded, imo, mostly when they are strong to start with, they should be enlisted for help. This is my opinion. At this point, and i may be wrong, it sound more that the forum has been dealt with once again imo. Handling it, period, could have been more efficient.

I like much better to read thread like this one here (in which no troll can come and sustain itself, not having the capacity) than read a thread for a moron holding an autistic kid in a cave surrounded by the police, and soaking in the gossipy mud - regular tv serves me enough of it, i do not want to find it here too. We are talking here like light years apart in terms of quality and efficiency in regards to reality on the planet.

The worst invasion of the forum was brought by Charles, not 9e9, and it is still brought in by the same group. The path is different. Period. In my opinion. Of course, I always keep in mind that I do not have the whole picture, but who does, really?

Vivek going away too makes it a still greater loss. This may be a knee jerk reaction Vivek, please, consider this. I would plea with Vivek not to go. We do need these informations you bring and these resulting awakenings, otherwise we just put our sword in water, not much results at the end. Humanity has been doing that for ages.

Ouf, i must just say plainly that I am disapointed at 6h30 on Saturday morning. I am tired to things taking off in my life, on the forum, anywhere, and falling flat all of a sudden. Now a whole student day at University is awaiting me, so I have to go.

Love to you Chelley, truly. Your path is a difficult one seen from my perspective. And Vivek, gros toutou, gros bisous sur les deux joues - big kisses on both cheeks and stick around hey!

[SKAWF]

Posted by Finefeather (here)
Unconditional love is the key to world peace...Courage, Patients and Love is the way.

i agree.

ironically i learned unconditional love from being around animals.

[Flash]

Posted by modwiz (here)

Posted by Amzer Zo (here)

Posted by modwiz (here)
[...]

Our worst adversaries are not in offices, but in our homes and workplaces. They are the walking wounded.

I finally realized -- too late, sorry Chelley -- that in order to heal the wounded, the professional victim, one needs to address the overwhelmed being that's burried under the piles of wounds and to get that being back on its feet before it can, itself, lick its own wounds.

That was the mistake of Dianetics as compared to Scientology: Dianetics keeps addressing the bank/"their"/reactive mind and kept neglecting the being... and was going nowhere as far as improvement of the being went. Hence, Scientology as designed to bypass the bank/"their"/reactive mind and directly addressing the being, i.e. "spirit" and restoring its self-confidence, competence and abilities to handle its own bank/"their"/reactive mind.

Hitting the bank/"their"/reactive mind upfront and all one gets is a reaction. So, one has to bypass it and increase the being/spirit self-confidence and abilities on a gently sloped gradient... if the gradient is too steep, the being calls upon its ser-fac of "can't do it" and calls back "their" mind to function in the place of "it," the being/spirit. The lack of a gradient approach is then mistaken as a lack of compassion or empathy or "love"... whereas it was just a miscalculation of which gradient to take to approach each individual being/spirit. Hence it cannot be applied to a group, only to individuals, one by one.

So, yes, that's a tremendous task!

I disagree. Dianetics did not have it wrong. There is a difference between fresh off the battlefield or accident and the walking wounded. When you speak of piles of wounds, you refer to layering. This is like piles of unwashed clothes left there by an irresponsible person. Adults owe it to each other to show up in good shape, to take care of themselves. If one gets into trouble we will gladly pick up the slack while they get well. There is no excuse for piles of wounds. This is the sign of a "poor me" energy sucker. One of the four types of energy sucking described so brilliantly in the Celestine Prophecies. The process you speak of is a trap. One where we get sucked into dysfunction because we are compassionate. Sometimes we imagine ourselves in the others place and are care-taking ourselves. I say, do not project such a pathetic, weakened, useless vision of oneself into the future. Instead create oneself vibrant and managing challenges as they come instead of allowing piles of them to accumulate. I do not subscribe to a Darwinian survival of the fittest. I do subscribe to a Gaian survival of the fit. Like poor crops, the realities of the field will see some crops wither and die. Such genetics are better off not passed on.

I apologize if I somehow read your post incorrectly and misunderstood it, Amer Zo, my mind is a little distracted. You are a member of great worth and contributions.

Modwiz, I truly have some thinking on that but no time for now. Will come back tomorrow.

[Limor Wolf]

Hi, I might be a 'persona non grata' here, but I would like to read this thread from top to bottom (that may take some time) and see what you are all talking about, there are always new things to learn and see if I am missing anything. regards, Limor

[aikisaw]

Once again the strong get sacrificed to protect the weak. And then it is lamented that nothing changes. How could it.

There is a big hole in this forum where you once stood 9eagle9. You are already missed.

[modwiz]

Posted by Limor (here)
Hi, I might be a 'persona non grata' here, but I would like to read this thread from top to bottom (that may take some time) and see what you are all talking about, there are always new things to learn and see if I am missing anything. regards, Limor

Persona non grata would be truly uncaring. Please, do not mistake disagreement with lack of caring. That is a big theme here. Love sometimes comes with a pink bow, and sometimes as a splash of cold water. I would hold out my hand in welcome, Limor.

[SKAWF]

Posted by Limor (here)
Hi, I might be a 'persona non grata' here, but I would like to read this thread from top to bottom (that may take some time) and see what you are all talking about, there are always new things to learn and see if I am missing anything. regards, Limor

i hope you find some value in it.

then you might understand what we have lost.

[aikisaw]

Posted by SKAWF (here)

Posted by Limor (here)
Hi, I might be a 'persona non grata' here, but I would like to read this thread from top to bottom (that may take some time) and see what you are all talking about, there are always new things to learn and see if I am missing anything. regards, Limor

i hope you find some value in it.

then you might understand what we have lost.

The thanks button wasn't enough.

What SKAWF said.

[Limor Wolf]

I appreciate it, Modwiz, I never have hard feelings, but I do tend to adopt a more of a disattachment about how others percieve me, (depends how much I value their oppinion)
I always identified with Chelley when she said that. I hope you don't mind me saying it. about cold showers, I recieved those most of my life from different factors, and many of us here do, I appreciate the warmth of Avalon and expect at least a lukewarm water, the battles should stay outside where we have plenty to excersice on, not here. There is one participant who I trust his line of thought, if he knows it or not, and that is Amzer zo. I will reside now in the thread pages and for the next couple of days, time permitted.

[Hervé]

Posted by modwiz (here)
[...]

I disagree. Dianetics did not have it wrong. There is a difference between fresh off the battlefield or accident and the walking wounded. When you speak of piles of wounds, you refer to layering. This is like piles of unwashed clothes left there by an irresponsible person...

No disagreements there, so I'll try to put it in other words.

Dianetics is a great tool to uncover burried Hypnotic or hypnotic-like commands/order from the unconscious/bank/"their"/reactive mind. That's what it does. But it doesn't address the being/spirit which turned itself into a professional victim due to lack of confront or to succumbing to fear. The being/spirit, via its own ser-fac, calls engrams into action to "prove" its inability to cope because of some kind of disability. Dianetics handle the disability, the being puts it back in place because it -- the being/spirit -- needs those engrams to be re-activated to keep proving it still can't cope.

Hence, how does one in good shape handle one's environment from turning into a witch-hunting ground? One needs to "educate" the professional victim beings/spirits and get them to gradually increase their confront/responsibility whether via Scientology, Holographic Kinetics or any other workable methods that would disentangle those beings from past agreements with themselves or others as well as undo mistaken decisions and/or conclusions which are still extent into the present as to their influence.

If you listened to the second interview of Steve Richards with Randy Maugans and Annalie, Steve ran into that same problem with Annalie who afterwards had a falling out with Steve just because of that.

Unless this "education" takes place on some appropriate gradient, one's environment won't change one iota or will be back to the usual after some period of time. I guess that's what I am trying to convey. And, yes that would be layering from lack of confront/responsibility from those beings and they won't change it by themselves since, from their survival point of view, it is very safe. How to get them out of that state is what Scientology deals with; by progressively helping them increase their confront and sense of responsibility. Any other method that does the same is as valuable.

Hope this clarifies what I am trying to express in a condensed form?

[modwiz]

Posted by Amzer Zo (here)

Posted by modwiz (here)
[...]

I disagree. Dianetics did not have it wrong. There is a difference between fresh off the battlefield or accident and the walking wounded. When you speak of piles of wounds, you refer to layering. This is like piles of unwashed clothes left there by an irresponsible person...

No disagreements there, so I'll try to put it in other words.

Dianetics is a great tool to uncover burried Hypnotic or hypnotic-like commands/order from the unconscious/bank/"their"/reactive mind. That's what it does. But it doesn't address the being/spirit which turned itself into a professional victim due to lack of confront or to succumbing to fear. The being/spirit, via its own ser-fac, calls engrams into action to "prove" its inability to cope because of some kind of disability. Dianetics handle the disability, the being puts it back in place because it -- the being/spirit -- needs those engrams to be re-activated to keep proving it still can't cope.

Hence, how does one in good shape handle one's environment from turning into a witch-hunting ground? One needs to "educate" the professional victim beings/spirits and get them to gradually increase their confront/responsibility whether via Scientology, Holographic Kinetics or any other workable methods that would disentangle those beings from past agreements with themselves or others as well as undo mistaken decisions and/or conclusions which are still extent into the present as to their influence.

If you listened to the second interview of Steve Richards with Randy Maugans and Annalie, Steve ran into that same problem with Annalie who afterwards had a falling out with Steve just because of that.

Unless this "education" takes place on some appropriate gradient, one's environment won't change one iota or will be back to the usual after some period of time. I guess that's what I am trying to convey. And, yes that would be layering from lack of confront/responsibility from those beings and they won't change it by themselves since, from their survival point of view, it is very safe. How to get them out of that state is what Scientology deals with; by progressively helping them increase their confront and sense of responsibility. Any other method that does the same is as valuable.

Hope this clarifies what I am trying to express in a condensed form?

Thank you. I will confess to being a bit emotional today. I will self monitor and be careful to not post while muddled.

[greybeard]

Thinking of you Modwiz.
As always respect for you
Regards Chris

[Belle]

Well, it's over...all the created drama, the manipulation, the justification...

It really was over when the safety thread started...a read through clearly shows 'their' mind at work...creating a case out of thin air to protect the programmed and triggering emotional reactions and drama to achieve the goal.

So now the forum rules have changed...again, it's ambiguous, and can be used against those who challenge the programming while letting others slide...all in the name of 'safety'...another trap for those who can see.

I have to admit, I'm angry. I don't like being played. I don't like that the fearful are protected while the fearless are disposed of...teachers banished while victims of their own ignorance are coddled and reassured that they don't ever have to grow up or stand up on their own two feet.

I don't get attached to people...still working on that layer of myself. But I am attached to eagles words of wisdom, no matter how they were delivered. They made me sit up and pay attention...'aha' moments that fostered growth...and when I slip up and fall back to 'their' mind, her words are there to help me pick myself up and get back on track. May they do the same to others who may stumble across her posts and find truth in them.

[greybeard]

Its true that the moment you have a thread that starts with "Do you feel *******" you are going to get a varied emotional, feeling, response.
Its a forgone conclusion that strongly held opposing belief systems come into play.
(That duality as opposed to unity consciousness.)
Then of course it becomes personal---its actually quite predictable---we all run programmed until we become aware of this then start to delete the software---the hard drive---our true Self is unaffected, but we cant access it till the viruses--- and unnecessary software is identified and removed.

Chris

[SilentFeathers]

This thread really is a bit "different" with eagle gone now, the dynamics have changed......

[Debra]

Posted by 9eagle9 (here)
ypically, people cry for help when they ask you to empathize with something -- they are misunderstanding how to be empathetic. They are really asking you to wallow in an emotion with them, they want you to bleed with them, or bleed for something. This is not necessary, and it appears that many people are inadvertently doing this. They want to see if you will bleed, and when you refuse to bleed it is misinterpreted as being callous or insensitive. In this way, this method is manipulative and it is commonly unacknowledged as being such. Offense may or may not be taken, but defense surely is. This is evident through deflecting -- protecting some aspect of yourself that wants to bleed, it wants you to give away your energy and to get others to do the same. Reinforcing these habits is not a good thing.


Big lesson for me recently...I had no idea that so many people claiming to seek their power want to be victims. They don't feel safe unless they are a victim and are treated like one. I know that there are people who are victims. But it was not until recently that I realized that is where people feel safe at being the victim.... and if you are not a victim....they don't feel safe. But the flyer mind is essentially a victim/abuser relationship so looking at it from that angle....it makes sense. But if you don't re-inforce those behaviors you are seen as the abuser.

Most of rightfully cannot see ourselves doing something so damaging as to wallow in each other's wounds. That is why I got out of one and one healing with people. They wanted wound wallowing, for us to fall to the floor and thrash in each other's misery and I can't do that. There is an essential dignity to becoming a whole person and its not present in those sorts of situations.

I come away more alarmed than ever at the state of humanity but ..I would imagine that is what the 'their' mind would want.

Again by our choice.

I just had to bump this. It is so refreshing, gets to the core, just brilliant.