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Thread: Their Mind and the Emotional Matrix that we create with it.

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    Default Re: Their Mind and the Emotional Matrix that we create with it.

    Quote Posted by ROMANWKT (here)
    Wake up to what Bob, we are awake and we still have to deal with the physical to correct the physical, we wake up and then what Bob??
    Not to be disrespectful, but I have already answered that, Roman, if you'll re-read my previous response. However, might I suggest that, rather than allowing yourself to be played by discursive mind, you actually give it a go, wake up yourself, rather than speculating about it, and then your questions will be undermined by what is true and obvious. Until then, you can run around with your questions and ponderings like a dog chasing its tail, and only end up with a mouthful of fur.


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    Default Re: Their Mind and the Emotional Matrix that we create with it.

    Damn. Twice now I've written out a long post and my computer has either crashed or Avalon has told me I'm not logged in (even though I was) and erased my post. Okay, I'll try again.

    The question, 9eagle, was whether or not you think it's possible for those of us who seem to need not much more teaching to unite even though we're using different languages? I mean, within the various teachings mentioned here, there are different languages - words mean specific things which "outsiders" don't know the meanings of. I don't speak scientology or ACIM, but through my own path which I will call "High Metaphysics" although it really has no name, I know what you're talking about even if I have to translate the words for myself. Most of the people on this thread seem to share core concepts, which is where we can intersect and unite -- if uniting is an objective? Maybe it isn't?

    I say that because most of the people I know who are outside the matrix to some degree or other - no matter by what route they got there - seem to be isolated. Is it an objective of the their-brain paradigm to keep us separated? What do you think?

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    Default Re: Their Mind and the Emotional Matrix that we create with it.

    Quote Posted by another bob (here)
    Quote Posted by ROMANWKT (here)
    Wake up to what Bob, we are awake and we still have to deal with the physical to correct the physical, we wake up and then what Bob??
    Not to be disrespectful, but I have already answered that, Roman, if you'll re-read my previous response. However, might I suggest that, rather than allowing yourself to be played by discursive mind, you actually give it a go, wake up yourself, rather than speculating about it, and then your questions will be undermined by what is true and obvious. Until then, you can run around with your questions and ponderings like a dog chasing its tail, and only end up with a mouthful of fur.

    I have the greatest respect for your knowledge in these matters, if I did not I would not be here asking from the depth of your mind and knowledge, that your doctrine purpose is to brake away from the wheels of this matrix life, my question is why? even knowing that we are nothing more than battery power to other powers, why, where do you think you are going after that my friend, that make this particular process a life long importance, why? what the goal outside of this??

    with the greatest respect Bob what is the actual deal here.

    roman

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    Default Re: Their Mind and the Emotional Matrix that we create with it.

    Quote Posted by ROMANWKT (here)
    ...what is the actual deal here.
    Freedom or slavery -- your choice.

    Perhaps we should take a step backward with this, however. For example, have you ever sat down and taken the time to inquire into what it is you really want out of life? What is your primal yearning? Unless you are clear about your fundamental motivation, you wil be filled with why's and yet never really amount to anything other than a dilletante of consciousness, tasting this or that morsel of borrowed wisdom, but never really getting the full meal.

    Most folks who approach these matters have never taken the time to inquire into their real motivation, and so just end up assuming second-hand attitudes they've borrowed from elsewhere. I can't provide you with motivation, Roman, it must come from your own longing to realize the truth for yourself. You must decide for yourself what the goal is, regardless of what I may suggest. If your goal is to improve your physical situation, fine -- there are many ways to do that, but is that your heart's most intimate desire?

    Do you know what that is? Truly? Have you gotten down with your own core longing? If so, you need not question me another moment, you will go straight for it. Most have not taken the time to really inspect themselves in that regard, and so are de facto vehicles for "their mind", the subject of this thread. I'll leave you with that for now. May it serve you!

    Blessings!

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    Default Re: Their Mind and the Emotional Matrix that we create with it.

    I have looked into every way possible from every angle and position possible from my mind not to proceed with the purpose of empowering people to their full potential that your doctrine hides from us all, I most defiantly understand the possible misdirection of people perusing of their full potential here on this plane which is a total no no from your doctrine as one may attach one self to deeply to free oneself from this cyclic existence, that is the reason for my questioning you for the reason why, and that would also be the reason why this knowledge is hidden from all by your doctrine, please stop me proceeding, again with the greatest respect,,,,why?

    roman

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    Default Re: Their Mind and the Emotional Matrix that we create with it.

    Quote Posted by ROMANWKT (here)
    I have looked into every way possible from every angle and position possible from my mind...


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    Default Re: Their Mind and the Emotional Matrix that we create with it.

    Quote Posted by another bob (here)
    Quote Posted by ROMANWKT (here)
    I have looked into every way possible from every angle and position possible from my mind...

    I then presume from that answer above that you will not explain why, one should not totally empower oneself, and deal with power with the powers that interfere with humanity, is that acceptable from you??

    regards

    roman

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    Default Re: Their Mind and the Emotional Matrix that we create with it.

    Yeah we don't really need a unified language, we all understand what the other is although the terminology is different. One says ego mind, reactive mind, their mind, personal demons but we all seem to understand the Core. In spite of the terminology we understand the core concept and share it.

    Their mind depends on programmed languages where words are redefined easily and no longer mean what they mean.

    It is yes an objective of 'their' mind to keep us separated. Several right minds together is a dangerous thing. Suddenly everyone notices their mind at work. They keep us separated by crazy language that says we are all one, when on an individual basis, we are, right from the starting gate, divided within ourselves. Divided people don't understand that, so flog the we are one ticket, flog the impossibly dead horse that was never alive in the first place because they don't realize (or care) their mind is divided.


    Quote Posted by doodah (here)
    Damn. Twice now I've written out a long post and my computer has either crashed or Avalon has told me I'm not logged in (even though I was) and erased my post. Okay, I'll try again.

    The question, 9eagle, was whether or not you think it's possible for those of us who seem to need not much more teaching to unite even though we're using different languages? I mean, within the various teachings mentioned here, there are different languages - words mean specific things which "outsiders" don't know the meanings of. I don't speak scientology or ACIM, but through my own path which I will call "High Metaphysics" although it really has no name, I know what you're talking about even if I have to translate the words for myself. Most of the people on this thread seem to share core concepts, which is where we can intersect and unite -- if uniting is an objective? Maybe it isn't?

    I say that because most of the people I know who are outside the matrix to some degree or other - no matter by what route they got there - seem to be isolated. Is it an objective of the their-brain paradigm to keep us separated? What do you think?

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    Default Re: Their Mind and the Emotional Matrix that we create with it.

    Hi Roman,
    Are you referring to the Karmic Wheel, that general model of the reincarnation concept? If so, my understanding is the same as yours, which is basically to avoid any attachments to this existence. I wouldn't mind hearing what another bob has to say about that either, but I'm also afraid this might be derailing 9e9's thread just a bit...
    Mercy, forgiveness, and compassion are the most virtuous forms of love
    Let your heart not be hardened by injustice and tribulation

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    Default Re: Their Mind and the Emotional Matrix that we create with it.

    Quote Posted by ROMANWKT (here)
    Quote Posted by another bob (here)
    Quote Posted by ROMANWKT (here)
    I have looked into every way possible from every angle and position possible from my mind...

    I then presume from that answer above that you will not explain why, one should not totally empower oneself, and deal with power with the powers that interfere with humanity, is that acceptable from you??

    regards

    roman
    On the contrary, I would suggest yet again that, unless you find out who and what you really are, you are in no position to empower anyone else, much less yourself. Furthermore, your insistence on using your mind to liberate your mind is like giving the thief a key to your house, while expecting not to be robbed. Good luck with that!


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    Default Re: Their Mind and the Emotional Matrix that we create with it.

    Im not very articulate at the moment but here goes.
    Im with Bob.

    The question is what do you accept as true?
    I accept 1000s of years of enlightened souls saying the same thing.
    There is no personal self that's an illusion.
    Modern thinking talks of a conscious universe --of holographic universe etc
    There is no duality -- no separation.
    The question to ask is "What is asking the question?"
    After some time the questioner drops away and the question is redundant.

    Adyashanti says that " What you are waking up from is the me"
    The ego/me cant wake up because its just a bundle of thoughts/self definition that we temporarily give value to.
    What you held to be true yesterday does not hold water today--- the mind pulls this way and that.
    The I is constant, unchanging and is not affected or influenced by these thoughts.
    The I witnesses what is happening--- it observes.
    Action may take place or not.
    The I can be very intimate with a situation, have great compassion yet see that is is passing and has only a temporary reality.
    What is true must be true at all times and in all situations.
    The I is permanent truth.
    Einstein said more or less "You will not solve a problem with the same energy which created it"
    For thousands of years people have tried to combat violence with violence---the same mind set.
    Gandhi came with a different mind set and see what happened there.
    So by raising spiritual vibration/energy above that which caused the situation --the situation can be resolved harmoniously.

    Chris

    Ps the important question is What am I?
    Last edited by greybeard; 13th January 2013 at 22:49.
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    Default Re: Their Mind and the Emotional Matrix that we create with it.

    Quote Posted by another bob (here)
    Quote Posted by ROMANWKT (here)
    Quote Posted by another bob (here)
    Quote Posted by ROMANWKT (here)
    I have looked into every way possible from every angle and position possible from my mind...

    I then presume from that answer above that you will not explain why, one should not totally empower oneself, and deal with power with the powers that interfere with humanity, is that acceptable from you??

    regards

    roman
    On the contrary, I would suggest yet again that, unless you find out who and what you really are, you are in no position to empower anyone else, much less yourself. Furthermore, your insistence on using your mind to liberate your mind is like giving the thief a key to your house, while expecting not to be robbed. Good luck with that!

    Understood, you have brought upon your self to judge who and who isn't, further more I could not empower a match stick, one has to empower one self, I see that you had to use that mind of yours to answer me, what the difference??

    Regards as ever

    roman

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    Default Re: Their Mind and the Emotional Matrix that we create with it.

    Quote Posted by greybeard (here)
    Im not very articulate at the moment but here goes.
    Im with Bob.

    The question is what do you accept as true?
    I accept 1000s of years of enlightened souls saying the same thing.
    There is no personal self that's an illusion.
    Modern thinking talks of a conscious universe --of holographic universe etc
    There is no duality -- no separation.
    The question to ask is "What is asking the question?"
    After some time the questioner drops away and the question is redundant.

    Adyashanti says that " What you are waking up from is the me"
    The ego/me cant wake up because its just a bundle of thoughts/self definition that we temporarily give value to.
    What you held to be true yesterday does not hold water today--- the mind pulls this way and that.
    The I is constant, unchanging and is not affected or influenced by these thoughts.
    The I witnesses what is happening--- it observes.
    Action may take place or not.
    The I can be very intimate with a situation, have great compassion yet see that is is passing and has only a temporary reality.
    What is true must be true at all times and in all situations.
    The I is permanent truth.
    Einstein said more or less "You will not solve a problem with the same energy which created it"
    For thousands of years people have tried to combat violence with violence---the same mind set.
    Gandhi came with a different mind set and see what happened there.
    So by raising spiritual vibration/energy above that which caused the situation --the situation can be resolved harmoniously.

    Chris

    Ps the important question is What am I?
    Thank you Chris for that and contrary to others belief I had understood what you had said, but you're herding people towards breaking out of the matrix cycle, its a clear question,,,why

    Most grateful Chis and thank you

    roman

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    Default Re: Their Mind and the Emotional Matrix that we create with it.

    Quote Posted by ROMANWKT (here)
    Understood, you have brought upon your self to judge who and who isn't....
    No judgment required on my end, by your questions you reveal yourself.



    Quote I see that you had to use that mind of yours to answer me, what the difference??
    Using the mind to participate in conversation is its natural function. It is only when it tries to grasp itself that it become a tail-chaser. Even a clear mind can only bring you to the threshhold, it cannot take you through the door. For that, something else is necessary, and the rational mind will never provide that something else. It can't, because that is not its function, nor does it want to relinquish its throne.

    This is what you will never understand, as long as you insist on relying on discursive mind. I truly feel for you, and all who are so bound, but there is a way beyond that, an as yet untried option, which is letting go of the struggle, as counter-intuitive as that might seem. Again, nothing I can say will give you the necessary motivation to let go, only when all your other options, schemes, and strategies have revealed their futility will you become available, and only then can something happen.

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    Default Re: Their Mind and the Emotional Matrix that we create with it.

    Quote Posted by another bob (here)
    Quote Posted by ROMANWKT (here)
    Understood, you have brought upon your self to judge who and who isn't....
    No judgment required on my end, by your questions you reveal yourself.



    Quote I see that you had to use that mind of yours to answer me, what the difference??
    Using the mind to participate in conversation is its natural function. It is only when it tries to grasp itself that it become a tail-chaser. Even a clear mind can only bring you to the threshhold, it cannot take you through the door. For that, something else is necessary, and the rational mind will never provide that something else. It can't, because that is not its function, nor does it want to relinquish its throne.

    This is what you will never understand, as long as you insist on relying on discursive mind. I truly feel for you, and all who are so bound, but there is a way beyond that, an as yet untried option, which is letting go of the struggle, as counter-intuitive as that might seem. Again, nothing I can say will give you the necessary motivation to let go, only when all your other options, schemes, and strategies have revealed their futility will you become available, and only then can something happen.
    Understood, thank you.

    Regards

    roman

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    Default Re: Their Mind and the Emotional Matrix that we create with it.

    ...


    It seems that few people truly understand what this guy said a few 1000s years ago:

    Quote "Don't blindly believe what I say. Don't believe me because others convince you of my words. Don't believe anything you see, read, or hear from others, whether of authority, religious teachers or texts. Don't rely on logic alone, nor speculation. Don't infer or be deceived by appearances."

    "Do not give up your authority and follow blindly the will of others. This way will lead to only delusion."

    "Find out for yourself what is truth, what is real. Discover that there are virtuous things and there are non-virtuous things. Once you have discovered for yourself give up the bad and embrace the good."

    - The Buddha
    Another guy more recently said something similar:

    Quote "What is true for you, is what is true"
    L Ron Hubbard
    Which basically means that until, and unless, one can make it one's own, own it for having experienced it, whatever "it" stands for, and KNOW it for what it is; well, it ain't true!

    That's that!
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    Troll-hood motto: Never, ever, however, whatsoever, to anyone, a point concede.

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    Default Re: Their Mind and the Emotional Matrix that we create with it.

    Thank you Chris for that and contrary to others belief I had understood what you had said, but you're herding people towards breaking out of the matrix cycle, its a clear question,,,why

    Most grateful Chis and thank you

    roman

    Hi Roman
    im just sharing what I have found to be helpful and debating.
    If a question is asked or something I share requires clarification--I look at my own take on it and may modify a seeming statement.
    Its not my responsibility to herd or even to guide--- in a way Im talking to myself, in writing I clarify my position.
    Which quickly brought to mind--- "The moment you take up a position know that you are identifying with an illusion" Thats a quote from A course in Miracles.
    So im self monitoring to remove all belief systems and concepts---I never had dogma as the path of enlightenment is not a religion, has no dogma, is not an experience, is not a belief system---- a belief is not a reality---enlightenment is the natural state so not a belief.
    There are paradoxes in this but that’s the essence.
    Why have I spent 30 years on this?
    I am devoted to discovering/uncovering the Truth.
    Yes I am guided by those who trod the path before me and discovered that they are the Truth--- One without a second.
    The totality all of it.

    Regards
    Chris
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    Default Re: Their Mind and the Emotional Matrix that we create with it.

    Chris gonna have to tell you the same thing I mentioned to Abob, I appreciate what you say, I know where you are coming from but


    There is not even a personal self when people have two minds in their psyche. A personal self is a desirable state compared to what is being discussed here. I'm sorry but there is duality. Real duality, self created duality, illusionary duality, what else could a person have if they are of two minds?

    It must exist otherwise there would be no need for ACIM. That is a solution therefore the problem it addresses must have exist some place in our perceived reality. Maybe not in the ultimate reality but we can't find our arse with both hands right now let along go to the 'ultimate' reality place.

    That is REALITY to people and just saying 'there is no personal self' just doesn't make it so. One has to be given the tools to comprehend HOW there is no personal self.

    Just repeating to people who do not have the MEANS of understanding this is ....1) frustrating to them 2) counterproductive, and then eventually verges on abusive--their mind at work.

    People who are caught in an illusion can comprehend that they are in an illusion, they see evidence of it but while the illusion maker is still running the projector its little use to tell them about reality or goals.

    Telling an alcoholic to 'just stop drinking and alcohol is only an illusion' does little to help them stop drinking. It seems pretty real to them at the time. It's pretty personal. Alcoholics do not stop drinking because they are informed there is not 'personal' self.

    Same thing here.


    This is what i mean about higher spiritual concepts being turned into something de-humanizing. Institutionalized. Because they are reduced to just concepts if the avenues of experiencing them are not given to people. There is real suffering and people who are told 'oh just be' get angry. They have no common frame of referenc to know non personal self states and personal self states. You can tell me that when I get my panties in a wad and I can go there. But if everyone were like that, we'd have them there. Then we wouldn't be here.

    People have to first be provided the means of comprehending reality. If they did not, none of this would require any sort of discussion.


    Then reality the goal becomes an inhabited construct. Only an idea with some energy behind it, not a state of being. The state of being becomes institutionalized. Then the goal and reality begins to lose credibility before people can even begin to realize it.

    What you are talking about is the goal. What I'm talking about is the means to the goal. You have the horse and I have the cart. I can't even get people to acknowledge the cart . People have to have the means to the goal in order to reach the goal. This conversation is square one, a comprehensive understanding of why we can't even have a personal self let alone what you describing. If you can understand what I mean. At this point in time a personal self would be a vast improvement over the conditions most people experience. It would be a collective leap for humanity if people were even aware they could have a personal self.

    I understand that people who post 'the goal' are well meaning but it turns into abuse when we repeatedly ask people to do what they are quite incapable of doing without having some basic understanding of what is preventing them from attaining the goal.

    Dear Albert, the problem was created by the stagant, do everything the same way over and over again, their mind. We are going to attempt to resolve that by now moving into our right minds. It has an entirely different energy.

    I'm not disagreeing with what you are saying but when we ask people or imply that people reach a place, repeatedly, that they can not achieve because a basic groundwork has not been achieved then it becomes abusive.

    Before that it becomes counter productive.

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    Default Re: Their Mind and the Emotional Matrix that we create with it.

    Quote Posted by Amzer Zo (here)
    ...


    It seems that few people truly understand what this guy said a few 1000s years ago:

    Quote "Don't blindly believe what I say. Don't believe me because others convince you of my words. Don't believe anything you see, read, or hear from others, whether of authority, religious teachers or texts. Don't rely on logic alone, nor speculation. Don't infer or be deceived by appearances."

    "Do not give up your authority and follow blindly the will of others. This way will lead to only delusion."

    "Find out for yourself what is truth, what is real. Discover that there are virtuous things and there are non-virtuous things. Once you have discovered for yourself give up the bad and embrace the good."

    - The Buddha
    He also said that life is dukkha -- unsatisfactory, stressful, suffering. In fact, this was the first "noble truth" that he proclaimed, after his awakening. For the next forty years, he did nothing but offer a path to freedom from suffering. So, here is the motivation: we can examine our own lives and see that, whether things are going along smoothly or maybe not so smoothly, there is still a persistent element of dissatisfaction to it. The closer we look, the more we recognize how this sense of dis-ease is in fact a superimposition, a foreign installation, since it is not natural to our original being. It represents a chronic contraction of our energy, in body, mind, and emotion. Do we need any more motivation to relieve ourselves of this? Do we need to fish around for some rationale for emancipation, when we finally begin to realize the extent to which we have cooperated in our own enslavement?


    more here:

    http://theconsciousprocess.wordpress...-of-happiness/

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    Scotland Avalon Member greybeard's Avatar
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    Default Re: Their Mind and the Emotional Matrix that we create with it.

    hi 9eagles9
    as you probably know I am a recovering alcoholic.
    So the parallel is that others showed me that there was another way and set an example even gave me twelve steps.
    So its the same with the spiritual --others further along the path wrote the books-- I was given choice.
    Now I do the same--- I share what was given me--- it was my choice to pick it up.
    More and more people are picking up and looking for identification with what is spontaneously happening,
    Kundalini spontaneously woke within me ---if I did not have acces too people more knowlegable than m I would have thought I was loosing my mind.

    Frustration and all things will be experienced whether a person is seeking or not.
    My personal experience is the slowly but surely the me starts to leave centre stage, the mind become quieter peace prevails, thats something of value to share as is AA.
    Naturally the persona remains but that's not the same as being driven by wants needs and desires.

    Regards Chris
    A charity to help African Children become self sufficient. :attention:

    http://www.learningtoolsforselfdevelopment.co.uk/

    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

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