To my knowledge there are no real Free Energy devices

[RMorgan]

Posted by eaglespirit (here)
it is about to turn around and the monopolized mess we are in is about to implode.

I really hope so. Really.

[sdv]

There is much awesome discussion about 'free' energy on PA.

What do we define as 'free' energy?

The following definitions just confuse me (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/free+energy):

free energy
n.
1. A thermodynamic quantity that is the difference between the internal energy of a system and the product of its absolute temperature and entropy.
2. A thermodynamic quantity that is the difference between the enthalpy and the product of the absolute temperature and entropy of a system. Also called Gibbs free energy

free energy
(Physics / General Physics) a thermodynamic property that expresses the capacity of a system to perform work under certain conditions See Gibbs function, Helmholtz function

free energy
A thermodynamic quantity that is the difference between the internal energy of a system and the product of its absolute temperature and entropy. Free energy is a measure of the capacity of the system to do work. If its value is negative, the system will have a tendency to do work spontaneously, as in an exothermic chemical reaction. Free energy is measured in kilojoules per mole. Also called Gibbs free energy.

And from wikipedia:

Free energy may refer to:

In economics:
Energy from sources that do not require an input which has to be paid for, e.g. solar energy, wind energy - (usually a sub-set of renewable energy)

In science:
Thermodynamic free energy, the energy in a physical system that can be converted to do work, in particular: Helmholtz free energy, the energy that can be converted into work at a constant temperature and volume
Work content, a related concept used in chemistry
Gibbs free energy, the energy that can be converted into work at a uniform temperature and pressure throughout a system

Variational free energy, a construct from Information theory that is used in Variational Bayesian methods

In pseudoscience:
Free energy device, a hypothetical device that creates energy in a hypothetical isolated system, i.e. without any external input, thereby contradicting the laws of thermodynamics

In popular culture:
Free energy suppression, a conspiracy theory that advanced energy technologies are being suppressed by special interest groups

In music:
Free Energy (band), a 5-piece rock band on DFA Records

Do we define free energy in terms of financial costs (more for paying less), enviromental costs (more for less impact on the environment) or sustainability costs (more that will last longer), and is the 'more' necessary?

We already have the technology for energy devices that are more environment friendly, more sustainable and, in the long run, cost less money, but ... Perhaps we can only define free energy and transform to using free energy devices when we have transformed how we think about money, the environment and sustainability?

For now, I would really appreciate an attempt to find consensus on definitions for free energy and alternative energy.

Peace and hugs

[RMorgan]

Posted by sdv (here)

For now, I would really appreciate an attempt to find consensus on definitions for free energy and alternative energy.

Peace and hugs

Hey mate,

In my opinion, free energy isn´t about financial costs.

A free energy device is an over unity device, which means, it´s a device that produces more energy than the energy it needs to operate. It gives more than it takes.

An ideal free energy device is the one which, once triggered, will output energy without taking none from external sources, like stars.

Of course, a free energy device is also clean, because once it´s manufactured, it doesn´t produce any waste like most of our current energy sources. So, it doesn´t cause any environmental impact despite the extraction of the materials needed to build it.

Financially, if such device is built in large scale, lets say to supply an entire state, independently if it´s highly expensive, it would pay for himself very quickly and the energy costs would be heavily reduced. Of course, people would still need to pay for maintenance costs of the grid and the whole structure behind it, but the costs would be minimal, diluted to a whole city.

If such device is available in small scale, to supply single houses, once the initial cost is covered, one would have no energy bills for the rest of his life.

Free energy doesn´t mean the device itself will be free of charges, of course.

The biggest plus isn´t even financial at all. It´s environmental. It would break the oil industry, which is clearly the biggest responsible for the ongoing destruction of our planet.

Raf.

[eaglespirit]

Some of You may find David's explanation of the energy of the device he created from Ed Leedskalnin's (Coral Castle) work
rather enjoyable and interesting..
This energy is being tapped by many secret and hidden government entities, imho!

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post616435

[Tesseract]

Anyone know of a free energy device that actually uses it's own output as the input power source?

[eaglespirit]

Posted by Tesseract (here)
Anyone know of a free energy device that actually uses it's own output as the input power source?

Hello Tesseract, Wishing You Well!

I believe David's simple device of Ed Leedskalnin's (Coral Castle) work is doing just that in some ways.
David's explanation video of this device is in the link of my above post.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=bMMFMz-ZUMg

[RMorgan]

Posted by Tesseract (here)
Anyone know of a free energy device that actually uses it's own output as the input power source?

Well, nothing like output=input/input=output, otherwise the device would achieve perpetual motion state, which, so far, has been proved impossible.

However, there are many devices who use only part of their wasted output energy as input. As an example, there are electric vehicles that use the energy released while braking, converting the kinetic energy back to electricity. This system is called regenerative braking. The Toyota Prius and the Tesla Roadster use this system.

Not that they are using their output as input literally. They just convert potentially wasted kinetic energy back into electric energy.

Electric bicycles and F1 cars use similar systems as well.

Regular cars use alternators to convert the the rotational force provided by the engine into electrical energy, keeping the battery charged.

A device who supposedly used his output energy to entirely supply itself would be equal to output=input, or, in other words, 100% energetic efficiency.

There are no 100% efficient energy converters so far. If there are, they are kept secret from the public.

Every energy converter loses energy in the conversion process, mostly by heat, mechanical friction and electrical resistance. So, input>output.

Raf.

[meat suit]

I agree Raf,

most of the devices on demo have a battery somewhere in the chain, the device is charging the battery and taking power to run from the battery.
the operator then has a couple of volt meters rigged up to prove that the device is suppying more power to the battery than it takes.

I think even Rossis E cat device wouldnt run without a massive generator running in parralel last year... sorry avent got time to find the links...

[witchy1]

Electrophorous

The Electrophorous has something of the perpetual motion machine about it. When writing to Joseph Priestly in 1775 Allesandro Volta (1745-1827) noted that it was a device that "electrified but once, briefly and moderately, never loses its electricity." The modern form of the electrophorous is shown at the right. This example, in regular use at Kenyon College, from the first quarter of the 20th century, has a hard-rubber dielectric plate 29 cm in diameter. The plate is first charged (negatively) by rubbing it with rabbit fur, and the plate laid atop it. The presence of the negative charge causes a separation of charge in the plate, with the positive charge being held on the bottom of the plate. Touching the top of the plate with the finger allows the un-bound negative charge to disappear into the body, a charge reservoir. The positively-charged plate is then lifted by its handle. and a spark drawn from it. In my own demonstrations I use a large neon glow lamp or a small fluorescent tube to indicate the passage of charge.


http://physics.kenyon.edu/EarlyAppar...rophorous.html

Now I know exactly Nothing about electricity. But I do read old medical books.
From 1888 - Annual of the Universal Medical Sciences there is a chapter on Electro therapeutics by A L Ranney MD, who worked on his own Holtz device and modified it for therapeutic purposes.

He talks about galvanic cells Holtz machines, electro motive force, galvanometers, Ohm's law, static machines and all those other electric things.

He does say that the Holtz induction machine will produce 52,000 volts (52,000 times greater than the Daniel cell) - not effected by velocity of rotation. The quantitiy generated is proportionate to the velocity of rotation and the number of wheels employed. (not even sure that is important)

Its a faciniating read and shows that a bit of cat skin and ebonite will start these machines and they keep going. They made from glass and paper

You all probably know about them anyway. The above picture is the earliest one I could find.

Very effective in medicine at the time. Cures contractures, headaches baldness etc..... (even dare I say terminations of pregnancy)

Anyway - its free electricity as far as I can tell.

The picture below looks a bit like what he was talking about. However the Holtz inductor only had one revolving and one stationary plate, both circular. Had paper collectors glued to the stationary plate.....metal combs wer used as terminal attachments..... He vamped his static machine up somewhat to get a spark of 11 1/2 inches from a wheel of 12 inch radius. He ran his continuously
(He talks that he could not discuss the cheaper Toepler model, as it was clearly inferior to the "modified Holtz model)

The book has lots of diagrams in it and is very clear about how to start them (clearly not everyone had the knack) He covers off 47 pages about it. (that I dont understand)

He states that in all induction machines the charge is practically constant when once established, provided the mechanism be perfect and plates kept absolutely dry. He describes the use of chloride of calcium for this purpose, where to put it etc.

This picture, from Huston's "Lessons on Electricity" (1903) shows a big Holtz machine being used for electric "therapy."

http://physics.kenyon.edu/EarlyAppar...z_Machine.html

I really believe we need to go back - we arent making progress going forward. The same with medicine. Go read the really really old books.

Happy to provide more info if of any value. Just thought it might be useful information :-)
K

[Shade]

Posted by RMorgan (here)
(Reply for the above post, about Bedini circuit)

Cool, but what moves that super-heavy coil array?

It´s only a free energy device if the energy input required to move the device is smaller than the resulting energy output.

free energy= input<output

So far, I´ve never seen any functional over unity/free energy device, and I´ve researched a lot about it.

Want to show me a functional over unity/free energy device? Show me clear energy input and output measurements, not cool gadgets.

The guy from e-cat showed the proper measurements, but his device was wrapped up in tin foil during the demonstration, so there´s no way to know if it was rigged or not...I guess only time will tell.

Clearly, supposed free energy devices, such as the Bedini, that require that amount of mechanical interaction, coils and wiring wouldn´t work without room temperature superconductors, because the amount of energy lost with resistance and friction are simply too big, and even with room temperature superconductors the most it could get would be input=output.

Really, free energy isn´t subjective metaphysics. We need practical proof, and, so far, I haven´t seen any proof that such devices actually exist.

I challenge anyone to show me a free energy device that actually works, with the proper energetic measurements, of course.

Raf.

Hi Raf,

This stuff is interesting:
http://www.i-b-r.org/ir00020b.htm#3.1.E.%20PART%20III
http://www.i-b-r.org/docs/Fuels-Magn...-Structure.pdf

this tech transforms waste into energy and the magnereactor has already been built.
In a round about way, this is giving more than it's taking, as such.

[donk]

However you define it, I think the most important concept to it being a positive thing is the resource needed to produce it...not to forget Jevon's Paradox

I always thought free energy meant tapping into that 99.99% of existence (energy) that we don't consider "matter" and efficiently (without toxic waste) turning into something usable?

[donk]

Net energy return on investment is a concept I thought was exclusive of "free energy"? To me that deals more with economics...since fossil fuels fit the definition suggested.

Once it takes more than a barrel of oil to extract one, TPTB will have to release the next (inefficient, meter-able) technology to keep us enslaved.

But careful what you wish for (see Jevon's paradox link above)...I think that technology requires a level of spiritual/emotional maturity of the populous that uses it, otherwise it's easy to destroy itself

[eaglespirit]

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post617088

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post617263

[Barrett]

Hi everyone,

This is a subject that I'm very interested in. I've done a fair amount of research into it, and although I have no electrical or mechanical engineering background or experience (so actually building one of these devices is probably beyond me) I can understand them from a logical/intellectual/spiritual viewpoint.

As many of you will already know, one of the first people to discover "free" (personally I prefer referring to it as "zero point" for various reasons, a few some have already pointed out here) energy, or radiant energy, was Nikolai Tesla. He discovered a way of, a) drawing energy from the void and b) transmitting it wirelessly! At the time his research was being funded by J.P Morgan who, as many will also know, was one of the banking elite and held monopoly in many of the industrial sectors. One such sector being the cabling sector (laying all the electrical cables across the USA). Shortly after Tesla reported his findings to Morgan, his funding was withdrawn and his laboratory was burned to the ground. You can draw your own conclusions as to why this happened.

As discussed in other areas of this forum (so I won't go into it too much here) most areas of modern day life are controlled by an elite group - these areas include education, science, mainstream media, pharmaceuticals etc etc - and as such a plethora of information has been specifically suppressed to further their own financial gain and control mechanisms.

This action has gone much further in preventing zero point energy devices from becoming commonplace, because as my research has uncovered, many (if not all) these devices work on principles and laws of quantum physics/mechanics, and require a field of conciousness that accepts these laws in order to function correctly. Modern science teaches that you can't get more out than what you put in - this is deliberate! Many of the people who have invented these devices have had no problem getting them to work in their own workshops, but as soon as they invite others who are sceptical (or those who still believe what they were taught in science class ie: most people!) their devices do not function as intended! What I'm getting at here is that in order for these devices to become the norm and function correctly, a mass overhaul of conciousness needs to happen.

I found a free eBook on the subject. It contains hundreds of plans for various devices, and a full explanation of why they work. It's a pretty hefty book - approx 2500 pages and can be downloaded from here

I hope what I've said here has given some of you a different perspective on the matter - and hopefully in the very near future we can all benefit from these devices!

Love, Light and Oneness

Barrett

[Cristian]

Welcome to the forum Barrett Thank you for the pdf link as I am looking for simple projects that will allow me to toy with some concepts discussed in this thread .

[eaglespirit]

John Searl

http://searlsolution.com/

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=qPPBkhjp1fY

[RMorgan]

Posted by eaglespirit (here)
John Searl
http://searlsolution.com/

Again, the same problems.

First, we haven´t seen it working with the proper input/output measures. Would you buy something without seeing it working and without testing it? I wouldn´t.

Second, as I stated before, (considering they are indeed genuine) magnetic engines are limited because they use natural/passive magnets which produce very limited magnetic fields, so they can´t be used in large scale. To solve this problem one would have to use electromagnets, which require high energy input to work, and, consequently, would defeat the whole purpose.

Raf.

[eaglespirit]

Raf....if You keep it up I gonna fly down Your way and You and I and Friends are gonna do it : )

Make one that works the way YOU want it to!!!

I personally don't give a hoot about measurements...I'll leave that to the calibrators.

I just wanna 'hook-up' a small home and show it being done and doing!

It IS already here...let's allow it by allowing it : )

[RMorgan]

Posted by eaglespirit (here)

I just wanna 'hook-up' a small home and show it being done and doing!

That´s all I want as well, my friend! I really want it! Seriously!

The problem is finding one that works...

[eaglespirit]

Posted by RMorgan (here)

Posted by eaglespirit (here)

I just wanna 'hook-up' a small home and show it being done and doing!

That´s all I want as well, my friend! I really want it! Seriously!

The problem is finding one that works...

We Shall! : )