Breakout Conversation: Mind and the Emotional Matrix Reloaded

[Arrowwind]

Posted by modwiz (here)

Posted by Arrowwind (here)

Posted by modwiz (here)

Posted by Arrowwind (here)
Chelly would still be here if she went about her work without being so dam obnoxious.
Obnoxiousness does not win favors nor teach. She failed as a teacher that she proposes herself to be.
And that is a shame for I believe she had insight.
Many teachers though history have lead others into difficult insights because they were talented in teaching
and did not use offense to try to drive a point home.
Although she may love to give attention to cute sick kitties she did not give condiderations
in kindness to those on the forum who chould not pace with her.

So, you decided to give a demonstration on obnoxiousness? You succeeded. You also demonstrated "their" mind.

Good Show .

Somebody has to call a thing by its name. Chelly certainly wouldn't consider that obnoxious. Its her style, to the point so much that it hurts.

Chelley didn't consider herself obnoxious, you did. You don't consider your self obnoxious. I do.

See how this works?

It's a sh!t circle so how about going into the unsubscribed thread and unloading? You will have company and generate a reasonable thanks response.

We of this thread know she is unpopular with some and why. You brought nothing new to the conversation. Even the obnoxious part is old.

Because Chelly is stuck in her own corner of the matix she couldnt comprehend her obnoxiousness perhaps. I clearly see mine, although obnoxiousness is not necessarily meanness. Obnoxiousness is a value judgement, subjective but generally something liable to censure because those who hear it cant handle it for whatever reason ... and Im stomping on no ones grave. Chelly is not dead. She has only been censured from Avalon and repeatedly.

Fact of the matter in personal communication with Chelly over a year ago that she said to me that she must be mean to get her point across and so she pursued that path. Thats when I dumped her and thats how she got herself dumped from here.

Its a dark corner of the matix that justifies abuse to gain an ends and this only fortifies the matrix and makes it stronger.

[Christine]

Posted by Arrowwind (here)

Posted by modwiz (here)

Posted by Arrowwind (here)

Posted by modwiz (here)

Posted by Arrowwind (here)
Chelly would still be here if she went about her work without being so dam obnoxious.
Obnoxiousness does not win favors nor teach. She failed as a teacher that she proposes herself to be.
And that is a shame for I believe she had insight.
Many teachers though history have lead others into difficult insights because they were talented in teaching
and did not use offense to try to drive a point home.
Although she may love to give attention to cute sick kitties she did not give condiderations
in kindness to those on the forum who chould not pace with her.

So, you decided to give a demonstration on obnoxiousness? You succeeded. You also demonstrated "their" mind.

Good Show .

Somebody has to call a thing by its name. Chelly certainly wouldn't consider that obnoxious. Its her style, to the point so much that it hurts.

Chelley didn't consider herself obnoxious, you did. You don't consider your self obnoxious. I do.

See how this works?

It's a sh!t circle so how about going into the unsubscribed thread and unloading? You will have company and generate a reasonable thanks response.

We of this thread know she is unpopular with some and why. You brought nothing new to the conversation. Even the obnoxious part is old.

Because Chelly is stuck in her own corner of the matix she couldnt comprehend her obnoxiousness perhaps. I clearly see mine, although obnoxiousness is not necessarily meanness. Obnoxiousness is a value judgement, subjective but generally something liable to censure because those who hear it cant handle it for whatever reason ... and Im stomping on no ones grave. Chelly is not dead. She has only been censured from Avalon and repeatedly.

Fact of the matter in personal communication with Chelly over a year ago that she said to me that she must be mean to get her point across and so she pursued that path. Thats when I dumped her and thats how she got herself dumped from here.

Its a dark corner of the matix that justifies abuse to gain an ends and this only fortifies the matrix and makes it stronger.

Trying to be a rudder on Avalon -

Time to put away childish games, hard feelings, bruised bottoms, and anything that remains in the realm of vindictive, there will be no good to come from this type of banter.

Or take it off stage if you must.

Which one of you will grow up first is the question.

[Bill Ryan]

Posted by Calz (here)
This will be sketchy going from memory ...

The angriest post I remember *ever* from Bill was when another member was trying to pull in "pyschic" confirmation (via something similar to David R. Harkins kinesiology method). He suggested "honesty values" (levels of consciousness) to be attributed to some of the interview participant from Bill and Kerry. Again from memory ... I believe what made Bill upset was one such reference to someone Bill knew personally and had already passed (hence not available to defend himself).

Good memory! All in this post:

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...ll=1#post90159

Extract:

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
You are arrogant and infantile. I have never before said that to an Avalon member, but I'm saying it now.

You have no idea at all what courage is. And absolutely no idea how to measure it. You should be ashamed.

Do read the rest.

Member tone3jaguar (who quit the forum, after I'd correctly called him 'stupid', which was accurate) had used his dowsing technique to assess the accuracy of some of the Camelot witnesses. One of them, 'Mr X', was my friend, and had died -- very probably for his courage. tone3jaguar was a fool. (That's accurate, too.)

I subsequently wrote:

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)

Posted by Wood (here)
Bill, you own this forum and you have the right to show the door to any member. I think, however, that your choice of words in this case has been poor. We are your guests here, and there are many eyes watching you.

T3J quit. He's not been banned.

I chose all my words carefully (I always do), and they're accurate and justifiable. Every one of them. Work through the logic and see.

It's one thing to call someone stupid as an insult. It's another thing to call someone stupid when it's true.

T3J insulted four friends of mine (at least) with internet-published smears. I defended them, and stated reasons. That's honorable. Not cheap.

Meanwhile, what I heard in response was justification, not apology - or even the tiniest admitted possibility that his work might have been mistaken, ill-judged, or in need of some re-evaluation.

It's okay to be angry sometimes, in appropriate circumstances. That's a sign of maturity - not immaturity. I usually choose my moments. One does not have to play nice to someone who needs to hear feedback. T3J can't hear it now, but he might one day when reflecting on this.

I'm a teacher. Not an executioner. The two are different.

And then:

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)

Posted by John (here)
It was an opinion construed as a slap in the face.

It was neither. It was a smear.

Here's what I mean. T3J has no 'opinion' on Wade Frazier (11%). He doesn't even know who Wade is. If he did know, he'd never have published the asinine figure of 11%. I will not tolerate this kind of stupidity.

If someone thinks that Wade Frazier may be a disinfo agent, then that person can explain why and we can debate it intelligently. But no, here a pendulum makes the verdict, T3J states it as unassailable fact, and claims no responsibility.

There is zero opportunity for rational debate. And meanwhile, the smear stands, justified by 'objectivity'. That's insane by any definition.

It's worse that following New Age Priests. It's divination of 'truth' from chicken entrails. Please go do that on another forum. Not here.

[modwiz]

Posted by Arrowwind (here)

Posted by modwiz (here)

Posted by Arrowwind (here)

Posted by modwiz (here)

Posted by Arrowwind (here)
Chelly would still be here if she went about her work without being so dam obnoxious.
Obnoxiousness does not win favors nor teach. She failed as a teacher that she proposes herself to be.
And that is a shame for I believe she had insight.
Many teachers though history have lead others into difficult insights because they were talented in teaching
and did not use offense to try to drive a point home.
Although she may love to give attention to cute sick kitties she did not give condiderations
in kindness to those on the forum who chould not pace with her.

So, you decided to give a demonstration on obnoxiousness? You succeeded. You also demonstrated "their" mind.

Good Show .

Somebody has to call a thing by its name. Chelly certainly wouldn't consider that obnoxious. Its her style, to the point so much that it hurts.

Chelley didn't consider herself obnoxious, you did. You don't consider your self obnoxious. I do.

See how this works?

It's a sh!t circle so how about going into the unsubscribed thread and unloading? You will have company and generate a reasonable thanks response.

We of this thread know she is unpopular with some and why. You brought nothing new to the conversation. Even the obnoxious part is old.

Because Chelly is stuck in her own corner of the matix she couldnt comprehend her obnoxiousness perhaps. I clearly see mine, although obnoxiousness is not necessarily meanness. Obnoxiousness is a value judgement, subjective but generally something liable to censure because those who hear it cant handle it for whatever reason ... and Im stomping on no ones grave. Chelly is not dead. She has only been censured from Avalon and repeatedly.

Fact of the matter in personal communication with Chelly over a year ago that she said to me that she must be mean to get her point across and so she pursued that path. Thats when I dumped her and thats how she got herself dumped from here.

Its a dark corner of the matix that justifies abuse to gain an ends and this only fortifies the matrix and makes it stronger.

You spelled dam(n) wrong in your first post. I know, that was obnoxious.

Now without any rancor. Chelley spoke her truth to you about believing her abrasive nature is required. She honestly believes this. She stands in her truth. That is her integrity. However unpalatable she may be for many, her integrity is untouched. I am in the same household as her, I could raise my voice now and have her hear me, if I desired. There is no moping or bitching about her banning. There is no giving me information to post or things to say. She is gone and accepts that. She knew it was inevitable, it was a race against the clock. She is who she is and she accepts the consequences of it. Without complaint.

Why you felt compelled to come into this thread and post is a mystery for me, but I ask you to let it remain one, so that you can be done here.
This thread is on life support right now. Please let those of us who found nutrition and wisdom here to make what we can of it.

[Curt]

I have to feel like engaging in critical discussions about a member who isn't here to speak for herself is bad form.

Also, it's enflaming tensions at a time when members are trying to cool down and move on from what has happened.

More than just that, opinions on 9eagle's character or style or technique aren't relevant to the thread.

Can moderation help to return us to the original purpose of this thread?

[Sebastion]

I will not comment on the posts after my last one save to say that its pointless to attack the messenger and ignore the message of this thread. To ignore the message is their mind in action, let us continue with the message delivered.........

And for the record, I cannot see any basic difference between the matrix, the dark matrix and "their mind". If there is one, I would appreciate being informed as to what the differences might be, as to my mind they are all part and parcel of the same thing.

[ulli]

In the search for effectiveness it can become a trap to go too far the other way, if one approach does not work.
Controversy sells, or has done, until recently.

What I do when I find a certain approach not working, I imagine the opposite approach and examine it.
But I already know it would only be another side of the same coin, another extreme.
So from that position I look for the middle path, which might need new language, but at least can accommodate a wider spectrum of people seeking for answers and a way out of today's mess.

So far this method has served me well. It came straight out of my Gurdjieff training....
Affirming, denying, reconciling.
Plus, minus, neutral.
Positive, negative, neutral.
Or One, Two, Three.
Third force...the middle way, the Win Win way.
It's really a thinking tool, and one needs to give up all fixed ideas re. spontaneity being the best way, or just repeating the older teachings.
It works well where there are outside manipulative forces at work, trying to interfere with our minds and forcing us into extreme positions of duality.

If everyone would study some of these dialectic methods, one might have a better awareness of what is going on in the whole classroom and participate in a dialogue that will bear fruit.

[Sebastion]

Again this thread is not about chelley, she was the messenger........

Posted by ulli (here)
In the search for effectiveness it can become a trap to go too far the other way, if one approach does not work.
Controversy sells, or has done, until recently.

What I do when I find a certain approach not working, I imagine the opposite approach and examine it.
But I already know it would only be another side of the same coin, another extreme.
So from that position I look for the middle path, which might need new language, but at least can accommodate a wider spectrum of people seeking for answers and a way out of today's mess.

So far this method has served me well. It came straight out of my Gurdjieff training....
Affirming, denying, reconciling.
Plus, minus, neutral.
Positive, negative, neutral.
Or One, Two, Three.
Third force...the middle way, the Win Win way.
It's really a thinking tool, and one needs to give up all fixed ideas re. Spontaneity being the best way.
It does not work where there are outside manipulative forces at work, trying to interfere with our minds.

If Chelley would just study some of these dialectic methods, she might have a better awareness of what is going on in the whole classroom and participated in a dialogue that would bear fruit.

[Christine]

Posted by CurtisW (here)
I have to feel like engaging in critical discussions about a member who isn't here to speak for herself is bad form.

Also, it's enflaming tensions at a time when members are trying to cool down and move on from what has happened.

More than just that, opinions on 9eagle's character or style or technique isn't relevant to the thread.

Can moderation help to return us to the original purpose of this thread?

I am working on it Curtis. It takes all of us though.

[Curt]

Ulli,

This is probably great advice. And you've expressed it respectfully and diplomatically. But, it may not be the best time or place to have this conversation, i.e., this thread.

It's sort of a fresh wound for some members. Not to mention, this is not really the ideal place for discussions of 9Eagle9's style or method.

Perhaps another space.

It would be serving for all members if we can return this thread to its purpose.

Posted by ulli (here)
In the search for effectiveness it can become a trap to go too far the other way, if one approach does not work.
Controversy sells, or has done, until recently.

What I do when I find a certain approach not working, I imagine the opposite approach and examine it.
But I already know it would only be another side of the same coin, another extreme.
So from that position I look for the middle path, which might need new language, but at least can accommodate a wider spectrum of people seeking for answers and a way out of today's mess.

So far this method has served me well. It came straight out of my Gurdjieff training....
Affirming, denying, reconciling.
Plus, minus, neutral.
Positive, negative, neutral.
Or One, Two, Three.
Third force...the middle way, the Win Win way.
It's really a thinking tool, and one needs to give up all fixed ideas re. spontaneity being the best way, or just repeating the older teachings.
It works well where there are outside manipulative forces at work, trying to interfere with our minds and forcing us into extreme positions of duality.

If Chelley would just study some of these dialectic methods, she might have a better awareness of what is going on in the whole classroom and participated in a dialogue that would bear fruit.

[ulli]

Posted by Sebastion (here)
Again this thread is not about chelley, she was the messenger........

Posted by ulli (here)
In the search for effectiveness it can become a trap to go too far the other way, if one approach does not work.
Controversy sells, or has done, until recently.

What I do when I find a certain approach not working, I imagine the opposite approach and examine it.
But I already know it would only be another side of the same coin, another extreme.
So from that position I look for the middle path, which might need new language, but at least can accommodate a wider spectrum of people seeking for answers and a way out of today's mess.

So far this method has served me well. It came straight out of my Gurdjieff training....
Affirming, denying, reconciling.
Plus, minus, neutral.
Positive, negative, neutral.
Or One, Two, Three.
Third force...the middle way, the Win Win way.
It's really a thinking tool, and one needs to give up all fixed ideas re. Spontaneity being the best way.
It does not work where there are outside manipulative forces at work, trying to interfere with our minds.

If Chelley would just study some of these dialectic methods, she might have a better awareness of what is going on in the whole classroom and participated in a dialogue that would bear fruit.

She is still here, as far as Im concerned, as all the old teachers are still here, including the ones who are no longer in the physical.
Anyway, I agree with her message in principle, and it's being advocated in slightly different language all over the world,
many teachings abound which are designed to free people from the grip of the dark side.

If one gets too attached to any one messenger is also a way of falling back into the same trap.
Independence from all indoctrination, and an investigative approach, and one will eventually get there.
The goal is to be free.

[Curt]

I understand. And I appreciate that. Any help you can offer to keep us on track and help get us back into the flow of the thread and away from these other issues would be very appreciated.

Posted by Christine (here)

Posted by CurtisW (here)
I have to feel like engaging in critical discussions about a member who isn't here to speak for herself is bad form.

Also, it's enflaming tensions at a time when members are trying to cool down and move on from what has happened.

More than just that, opinions on 9eagle's character or style or technique isn't relevant to the thread.

Can moderation help to return us to the original purpose of this thread?

I am working on it Curtis. It takes all of us though.

[Christine]

Yes, lets turn this collective corner together. There is too much going on right now in real time to continue down the personality course.

[Calz]

Posted by Christine (here)


I am working on it Curtis. It takes all of us though.

I did all I could *before* the *last* incident prior to banning (yes long time coming I understand).


I *REALLY* really hope we can come together without any more "casualties".

Chelley is fine ... I "suspect" this and the "boots on the ground" confirm.

Okay???

Do we need a superbowl outage moment to calm things down???

No ... of course not.

Let the thread continue on as it was intended ... anything else goes ... elsewhere.

Rocket science???

Don't flatter me.

[Curt]

Good idea, Calz. Is there anyway the recent back and forth concerning eagle's departure, as well as the conversation surrounding her methods, etc can be moved to a completely new space?

It would be great to move it to an appropriate space so we can continue the valuable discussions begun here.

[Christine]

Posted by Sebastion (here)
And for the record, I cannot see any basic difference between the matrix, the dark matrix and "their mind". If there is one, I would appreciate being informed as to what the differences might be, as to my mind they are all part and parcel of the same thing.

I use that term "dark matrix" to differentiate the "results of the matrix mind" we are having our current experience in.

In terms of physical realities the Matrix is the projected reality, it is made of all the same "stuff".

Matrix refers to the womb - back to the feminine aspect of creation. They have co opted (infiltrated) our mind to project into our world the reality they want.

I am being called into the physical world. I am not sure how I got to this thread today but I am happy to be here.

[gripreaper]

I don't know if this is appropriate here, but it ties into the hive mind and the matrix. I was first introduced to kinesiology back in the 90's when Bob William's was doing Psych-K seminars around the country. His seminar was coupled with Bruce Lipton's book, "The Biology of Belief". David Hawkin's book "Power v Force" was also new on the scene at the time.

Bill William's approach was to subjectively change subconscious beliefs by muscle testing certain phrases to determine if such a belief is imbedded into the subconscious, and to then change the belief. I took the Psych-K course, and what was abundantly clear, is that bias comes into the equation and it is very difficult to isolate the conscious mind from the kinistetic readings.

David Hawkin's book, which I read, had a scale from 1 to 1000 which attempted to identify the different levels of consciousness, and through muscle testing, one could determine where one was on the scale. Trying to "read" the subconscious of another to determine their level of consciousness, it totally fallacious and cannot be done. Reading one's own needs to be done with someone who is unbiased and has no skin in the game. Even then, the readings were not 100% accurate.

It's psuedo science at best, and charlatanistic opportunism at worst. Although I did learn about the subtle energies and my own energy field, and was able to process certain stuck energies for my own personal benefit, the efficacy of such an approach does not go beyond this usefulness. Suffice it to say, I don't muscle test anything and haven't for probably 15 years.

It much easier and more effective to put myself into the theta or delta brain wave frequency while conscious, and let the truth of my subconscious come forth in meditation. This is how to develop one's inner core and how to access one's own inner truth.

What level of consciousness you are on takes care of itself.

[sdv]

Posted by CurtisW (here)
I understand. And I appreciate that. Any help you can offer to keep us on track and help get us back into the flow of the thread and away from these other issues would be very appreciated.

Posted by Christine (here)

Posted by CurtisW (here)
I have to feel like engaging in critical discussions about a member who isn't here to speak for herself is bad form.

Also, it's enflaming tensions at a time when members are trying to cool down and move on from what has happened.

More than just that, opinions on 9eagle's character or style or technique isn't relevant to the thread.

Can moderation help to return us to the original purpose of this thread?

I am working on it Curtis. It takes all of us though.

That emotional matrix (whatever it is ... and many brave souls on this forum delve deep to try to understand it) is seductive and pervasive and persistent. There are self-help gurus and spiritual gurus aplenty, but do they actually change anything? Maybe this is my paranoia but I wonder if some of these gurus are not in service of that prison-like emotional matrix (suffering is about learning lessons, you chose this pain to learn a lesson, and so on). 'They' are the evil ones and we just need to defeat them? That kind of thinking does not work for me. Fighting 'them' just feeds the toxicity of the emotional matrix? Elevating one person in this huge interconnected matrix as a messiah or special messenger is just feeding the toxicity of the matrix? I am still here because I believe that by questioning and digging we commit ourselves to freeing ourselves from this toxic emotional matrix.

Their mind? We are a part of that mind so it is also ours, otherwise we would not be here on this forum?

I am sorry that some people were so offended and disturbed by what 9eagle9 posted that they could not tolerate her being here anymore. As Viveck said, it is so easy to simply activate the ignore function on this forum. Can we not agree from now on to use this facility to ignore those people we don't want in our space rather than to reject them? I would like that!

Warm hugs, whatever that means in this emotional matrix that we are all connected to and are struggling to understand and change.

[aikisaw]

Posted by Christine (here)

Posted by modwiz (here)

Posted by Christine (here)

Posted by modwiz (here)

Posted by Sebastion (here)
Methinks this is what 9eagle9 did when she started this thread. She exposed "their mind" and the matrix. Disregard the ad at the end!

https://youtube.com/watch?v=R706isyDrqI

She sure did. Notice she is not around to continue the exposure. Avalon moderation was in a Pontius Pilate position. Unenviable position, to be sure.

The Matrix is very efficient with the world currently still largely asleep. She got some work done. Every little bit helps. The world is not ready. It's just how it is. It's a very old story. Jefferson spoke of it at the formation of this country. He saw the same organized criminal elite ruling the masses throughout history. It was always because people, as a whole, are not emotionally or intellectually competent enough to manage themselves.

Small pockets of competence get swallowed up. I am sure there has been many a town or village that would have thrived if left unmolested. The Mongols, Kurgans, Romans chewed their way through many of them and installed a Matrix in their place. The Romans etc called the Matrix, Pax Romana.

We can have fun making believe this is not the case though. Everyone likes a good story.

You know modwiz, I really like your wit and intellect, well sometimes.

But you are playing both sides of the game here.

As a person, as a moderator on Avalon and as I warrior in my own right I would have preferred a different outcome. No body put 9eagle9 on the cross except herself. Ask me how its done, I have done it a thousand times before.

Small pockets of truth get swallowed up because we wage war with each other. Please don't throw the whole Roman thing on Avalon.... it is such a corruption of truth. What motivates you here? Please let us know.

Peace to us all!

Christine, it was the people, not the governor who wanted blood. That was my point. Pilate had a people to govern and they wanted something done. I am basing this on the conversations that got posted about the "timid" members who wanted the mods to do something about Chelley.
Hence my unenviable comment.

Thanks for the clarification. But that isn't the whole story. It wasn't just the timid members, if you pull that one comment out of context with everything that was going on of course you will miss the big picture. That is what the mass media does... ... focus the attention where you want it to go.

This was and still is an incredibly complex chain of events that played out on many dimensions, to see the truth of what went down we could use your sharp unbiased intellect. There are many shadows in the Matrix, a lot is still unrevealed. This thread was doing a good job of taking off some layers but the work isn't finished.

The difficulty I am having with all of this is, your words do not align with your actions. On one hand you would have me believe that this forum is under attack from dark entities, a dark matrix and host of mean nasty things we do not understand. I agree with you, in part, on this.

Your actions are to get rid of one of the strongest members of this forum and certainly the leader of this thread. By your actions.... you have lost other strong members of this forum and weakened this forum against these dark matrix forces.

If you really thought that the forum was in danger......real danger. You would have set up phone trees, email chains, all hands on deck to all former forum members (yes even those banned before ) and let it be exposed.

It seems to me that you let the forum down, and 9eagle9 flawed as she is, stood by the forum.

I am trying to see another side to this..... but I do not right now.

[Bill Ryan]

Posted by aikisaw (here)
(replying to Christine above)

The difficulty I am having with all of this is, your words do not align with your actions. On one hand you would have me believe that this forum is under attack from dark entities, a dark matrix and host of mean nasty things we do not understand. I agree with you, in part, on this.

Your actions are to get rid of one of the strongest members of this forum and certainly the leader of this thread. By your actions.... you have lost other strong members of this forum and weakened this forum against these dark matrix forces.

If you really thought that the forum was in danger......real danger. You would have set up phone trees, email chains, all hands on deck to all former forum members (yes even those banned before ) and let it be exposed.

It seems to me that you let the forum down, and 9eagle9 flawed as she is, stood by the forum.

I am trying to see another side to this..... but I do not right now.

9eagle9 was playing her own game, and in no way "stood by the forum". But that's not the point. Please read this, and I hope this will explain more.

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post629415