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Thread: The Side of Gun Violence No One Talks About: Troubled Homes and Under-Reported Crimes

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    Unhappy The Side of Gun Violence No One Talks About: Troubled Homes and Under-Reported Crimes

    Sometimes the Truth Simply Doesn't Connect with Our Beliefs




    Most all of us are familiar with the concept of gun control. I myself have thrown in with the other faction: the gun owners, but paradoxically, I choose for personal reasons not to own a gun, and right now I don't think I can have one anyway because I am on probation. But either way, I support the right of the average American to keep and bear arms. Before you make your ultimate decision, please read this story.

    Sadly for some families, the eventuality of guns being placed in unworthy hands leads to unnecessary violence in the home. Even more damaging to the body and mind is the constant threat of violence that the ownership of said weapon underscores. I am familiar with this.



    My father was a gun owner. The rumor in the family is that he killed two men -- one drowned in a lake, and I didn't get the details on the other. All I know is that they didn't die because of guns. But they were killed by a gun owner -- where does that leave the rest of us?

    I can remember spending my twelfth Christmas in a place called Safe Harbor. It's a women's and family shelter. My father had threatened my mother, my sisters, me, and my grandparents with gun violence. He said that he was going to shoot us all. He blamed us kids for ruining his life, starting with me, and he told my mother that he was going to kill us all, then kill her parents. We fled to my uncle's house and called this shelter, and shortly thereafter, we were gone from his life -- for three days only.

    http://safeharborsc.org/

    I remember an evening my father got drunk and started in with the threats again. My mom piled us into the car, and out the rear window I saw my father holding a .22 rifle and watching us drive away. I wonder how close we came.

    ______________________________
    ______________________________



    This man, this gun owner, was a pet killer too. He threw a kitten against our apartment wall when I was a tiny infant. He killed between 30 and 50 dogs over the course of my childhood. I couldn't begin to count the number of cats, either. He killed most all of them. My friends, my companions, my familiar spirits, dead because of his guns. Where does that leave the rest of us?

    This man eventually died of a drug overdose (at least that is what I was led to believe), but before that happened, he had tried to commit suicide by means of (you guessed it) one of his guns. He took a .22 up the hill behind his house, but he took the wrong kind of bullet with him because he was drunk, and the weapon didn't fire. He almost killed himself with a rifle.
    ________________________________________
    ________________________________________



    My husband's friend was recently shot in the face and in the side by a gun owner. The friend was working at a coffee shop and this man just came in and shot him up, along with a bunch of other people in Seattle. No one else had a gun and no one was able to stop the rampage. The friend had to call 911 with his face blown apart. It was all a horrible mess. So where does that leave the rest of us, again I wonder?

    I still don't realllllly know deep deep down how I feel about guns. And that is why I don't own one. But do you think the real reason is, whatever is wrong with that person could be wrong with me too, and I am just afraid to own one?

    I don't think anyone should be forced into having or not having a gun. It's like worshiping the god damned nuclear bomb for chrissakes.

    /EndRant
    Last edited by Tesla_WTC_Solution; 9th February 2013 at 17:59.
    "I hear the horses thunder down in the valley below
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    Frank Herbert - The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future.

    John 1:5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

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    Default Re: The Side of Gun Violence No One Talks About: Troubled Homes and Under-Reported Crimes

    Thanks for sharing some personal insights with us. I can also relate to some of them. If you don't mind me saying, it sounds like your father was disturbed and had a major alcohol problem. I apologize if I am sounding too direct. Those problems probably predated his gun ownership. I think that it is most fortunate that you or other family members didn't fall victim (physically) due to his gun ownership.

    There are lot of people who shouldn't own guns that do. However, I can't blame the guns for being owned.
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    Default Re: The Side of Gun Violence No One Talks About: Troubled Homes and Under-Reported Crimes

    I listended to a radio program by Gary Null this morning. I made a thread on it that will probably die due to the rough start. It was susscint and revealing on many levels as to what is exactly happening in our nation.

    Moving women to the front lines in combat is just another staw on the camels back.

    Child abuse, wife abuse,husband abuse, amimal abuse and all kinds of abuse is only a reflection of the impact of violence that has permeated our culture in so many ways. Violence resides in the reptilian mind and it is promoted by our culture.. our media culture, our military culture, our pharmaceutical culture, our school culure, our gang culture and now it has signficantly seeped into our religous culture with alarming impact.



    This significant increases in violence I believe are due to an agenda to feed the reptialian brain, instead of nourishing our higher center, being, selves, whatever you choose to call it.

    We have moved so into political correctness that we are not even allowed to really indepth discuss the issues at hand. I go first hand reprimand on this when I protested our movement into Iraq from those around me. I was not a patriot. Turns out Im probably a better patriot than any of them because I insist on adhering to truth, justice and the constitution. We have not had truth in our nation in a long time and the implications of this are ever mounting as more and more people are moved towards and support violence due to the brainwashing we receive.

    the greatest violence is the dissolution of the family and these days, even if a family is living in one house it has been broken up by our imposed needs to have bothe parents working and our children educated in a socialst education system that is disregarding our constitution and has eliminated any ethicall authority aside from what the illusion of poticial correctness brings forth

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    Default Re: The Side of Gun Violence No One Talks About: Troubled Homes and Under-Reported Crimes

    He did have a drug and alcohol problem, for sure, but I think the violent tendencies started somewhere earlier --
    and I am not sure if it was him being creative or being shown by others.

    Drugs and guns should never mix.

    As for guns being innocent, well for example, some people think the LHC at CERN is dangerous. The particle accelerator.
    A gun is just a bullet accelerator, useful for nothing other than smashing something apart, just like the LHC.

    We take our shot and look at the mess like little kids. I don't like guns very much at all any more.

    I guess it's getting to me.
    We'll never be free of them will we?

    edit: the stuff #2 poster above said about the reptilian brain is absolutely true.
    games like WoW, call of duty, etc.

    All those shooter kids played shooter games!

    Loughner, Brievik, Holmes, Donovan, etc. played violent games before they killed real people. it wasn't the drugs fault
    "I hear the horses thunder down in the valley below
    I'm waiting for the angels of Avalon, waiting for the eastern glow" ~ Led Zeppelin

    Frank Herbert - The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future.

    John 1:5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

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    Default Re: The Side of Gun Violence No One Talks About: Troubled Homes and Under-Reported Crimes

    Becasue that man murdered some 30 or 40 dogs and no one stopped him... that is where the source of violence resides. It is in the hands of those who knew and did nothing from the beginning.

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    Default Re: The Side of Gun Violence No One Talks About: Troubled Homes and Under-Reported Crimes

    Arrowind, how do you stop a guy with a gun who is most probably a nut head over and above? He may shoot you.

    You know what a Turk told me once: each culture has it own mean of violence and killing. We, the Turks, are used to poison, in North America, they shoot.

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    Default Re: The Side of Gun Violence No One Talks About: Troubled Homes and Under-Reported Crimes

    Notice: purging an unwanted memory. Graphic and unnecessary reading ahead!

    This thread reminded me of an incident when I was just a child. I don't remember all the details but I do remember the gory part now. A neighbors cat had kittens. This guy placed the kitties one at a time in a cloth bag and...

    I don't want to say.

    I remember screaming at the man to stop but he just smiled at me and slammed ...

    There was a pile of kitties...

    I can't say. I told my mom and she came rushing over and made the man stop by threatening to call the police.


    Damn, what a world this is.

    Guns don't solve anything but they sure can put a stop to things in a hurry.
    Be patient love, there is no hurry,
    Release your hurt, give up your worry.
    The guilty past, the future fear -
    Neither one holds meaning here.

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    Default Re: The Side of Gun Violence No One Talks About: Troubled Homes and Under-Reported Crimes

    Yes, my lovely loving and so cherished dog was killed by a man like this when I was young. Shot at twice. The first time he got his leg and we took care of him, the second time, well, he never came back. We knew he had been shot.

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    Default Re: The Side of Gun Violence No One Talks About: Troubled Homes and Under-Reported Crimes

    It surely is a dark world at times
    "I hear the horses thunder down in the valley below
    I'm waiting for the angels of Avalon, waiting for the eastern glow" ~ Led Zeppelin

    Frank Herbert - The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future.

    John 1:5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

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    Default Re: The Side of Gun Violence No One Talks About: Troubled Homes and Under-Reported Crimes

    Quote Posted by Flash (here)
    Arrowind, how do you stop a guy with a gun who is most probably a nut head over and above? He may shoot you.

    You know what a Turk told me once: each culture has it own mean of violence and killing. We, the Turks, are used to poison, in North America, they shoot.
    to stop him, we would have had to become what he is. a killer!

    we prayed, we talked, we told the authorities, but to stop him, well, we had no way to do that.
    he was not 100% to blame.

    for example once he asked for the money to detox and the family turned him down.
    sad world, no sense in it sometimes.
    "I hear the horses thunder down in the valley below
    I'm waiting for the angels of Avalon, waiting for the eastern glow" ~ Led Zeppelin

    Frank Herbert - The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future.

    John 1:5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

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    Default Re: The Side of Gun Violence No One Talks About: Troubled Homes and Under-Reported Crimes

    To understand the issue of gun control and its implications you also have to understand human psychology. The gun camps seem to be black and white. One side thinks gun ownership should be fully endorsed while the other thinks the civilian population has no business owning a gun. Usually both of these camps know nothing about human psychology so at best they can only make a few statements that are true, but which only address superficial symptoms.

    Brutality is not necessarily related to gun ownership. Historically humanity has been full of dark periods where people were abused, tortured and killed when guns didn't even exist, this is a fact. Logic dictates there must be deeper layers to be understood when it comes to human violence and we can find those in the realm of psychology.

    An individual who grows within an insane environment has a very high probability of going insane, the question is to what degree. There are various degrees of insanity which go from a normalized person who exhibits no violent behaviour (at leas on physical terms) to the extreme case of a serial killer. What is one of the most toxic environments on this planet? the family unit.

    The family unit is a sacred cow for many people, but the truth is that it has gone terribly wrong through the ages. I'm not saying the family is inherently evil, but historically it has provided an ideal environment for psychological toxicity and it still does to this day. Add to this the reality of the Myers-Briggs Type Indicator and you can find out that society has (to a degree) forced people with highly incompatible personalities to interact with each other for too long. An introverted person who has to spend most of their time within environments with highly extroverted people can only develop a feeling of alienation and will feel forced to fit in.

    This person will never truly fit in because at a core level he/she is not compatible with the extroverted people. Sure interactions are still possible, but keep this for too long and tensions will start to build within this person. Some people find themselves in these situations and some are unable to cope with it, let alone deal with it. So what happens? the people surrounding this person are clueless about psychology so they will never see the severity of the problem, after all these insane environments are deemed to be normal.

    So the person who is an outsider (because of his/her personality type) will start to develop a toxic cloud within their psyche. Since this person has no clue as to how to deal with it then this can go into different directions depending on the severity of the case:

    It could be that this person falls into depression, maybe becomes extremely anti-social, maybe they develop cancer... or they may even start to pour this toxicity into the outer world in acts of violence, these acts of violence can be minimal or extremely sadistic.

    The problem is that we live in a highly ignorant and stupid society who uses their education system to mask the fact that they are dumb and who will boast about their psychiatrists and pseudo-psychologists to mask the little understanding they have about the human psyche.

    You see all these gun debates only address symptoms while they ignore the root cause: A highly toxic society that has been and it's still creating breeding grounds for all kinds of insanity. The problem is that there are sacred cows which are there to prevent the critical mind from piercing through the veil of BS: From institutions to morality.

    The real debate is the human debate, the society debate, the family debate. Gun control is just something which could manifest in healthy or toxic polarities depending on the degree on insanity or sanity of the population.

    Gun control could give way to insane regulations where no one has a right to use a gun as a means of defense or it could become too permissive and allow extremely toxic people to arm themselves to the teeth. By either regulating or allowing the traffic of guns you virtually solve nothing, those regulations have to be accompanied by psychology and sociology. Otherwise it is all a bad joke where nothing gets solved and the best "solutions" are only masks to pretend we are actually solving problems when in reality we are digging our own graves at an alarming rate.
    Last edited by Reaver; 9th February 2013 at 18:43.

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    Default Re: The Side of Gun Violence No One Talks About: Troubled Homes and Under-Reported Crimes

    Quote Posted by Arrowwind (here)
    I listended to a radio program by Gary Null this morning. I made a thread on it that will probably die due to the rough start. It was susscint and revealing on many levels as to what is exactly happening in our nation.
    I suspect you're referring to this thread: 7000 U.S. Children Dead On Obama's Watch. I just made an effort to resuscitate it, by splitting off the distracting part (which left only your one opening post.)
    -- Formerly known as "ThePythonicCow", aka "Cow", "PCow", "TPC", "PC", "Mooster", ...

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    Default Re: The Side of Gun Violence No One Talks About: Troubled Homes and Under-Reported Crimes

    Thanks for posting Tesla. Wretched to read and see a picture about senseless brutality against animals.
    Yes, gun ownership and cycles of violence are complex issues. It is the consciousness (in the human) and not the gun, however, which is responsible for the violence.

    Also, in response to Arrowind's thoughtful post,

    [I]Violence resides in the reptilian mind and it is promoted by our culture.. our media culture, our military culture, our pharmaceutical culture, our school culure, our gang culture and now it has signficantly seeped into our religous culture with alarming impact.[/I]

    I would venture to say that violence has never seeped into religion. Violence has always existed at the heart of religion. Crusades; Holy wars fought in God's name. The vengeful, wrathful Jehovah/Yahweh/Father up in the sky God.
    Our flesh eating ways and blood sacrifice.
    Violence and the predatory-nature archetype is a dense vibration. Perhaps this defines 3D reality.
    I choose to believe that we are waking up to another way of being/vibrating/ and hence our experience and creation of Reality.
    Depending upon where I focus, I believe this to be so.
    Some days I am not so sure.

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    Default Re: The Side of Gun Violence No One Talks About: Troubled Homes and Under-Reported Crimes

    I often find that the act of writing them down and telling others about bad memories/experiences lifts a big weight off us and makes us feel better. I think this is the kind of therapy Karl Jung encourages us to do to take away the SECRECY and POWER of the trauma. You're right about alot of violence is unreported and "covered-up" by families and neighbours, but people would still be violent with out guns - they'd use knives or poison, etc. Animals are beautiful and people should find humane ways to give-them-up e.g. take unwanted pets to the shelter instead of hurting them. When will people learn?
    “There is no coming to consciousness without pain. People will do anything, no matter how absurd, in order to avoid facing their own soul. One does not become enlightened by imagining figures of light, but by making the darkness conscious.” -- Carl Jung

    "To see the farm is to leave the farm."

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    Default Re: The Side of Gun Violence No One Talks About: Troubled Homes and Under-Reported Crimes

    Quote Posted by lunaflare (here)
    Thanks for posting Tesla. Wretched to read and see a picture about senseless brutality against animals.
    Yes, gun ownership and cycles of violence are complex issues. It is the consciousness (in the human) and not the gun, however, which is responsible for the violence.

    Also, in response to Arrowind's thoughtful post,

    [I]Violence resides in the reptilian mind and it is promoted by our culture.. our media culture, our military culture, our pharmaceutical culture, our school culure, our gang culture and now it has signficantly seeped into our religous culture with alarming impact.[/I]

    I would venture to say that violence has never seeped into religion. Violence has always existed at the heart of religion. Crusades; Holy wars fought in God's name. The vengeful, wrathful Jehovah/Yahweh/Father up in the sky God.
    Our flesh eating ways and blood sacrifice.
    Violence and the predatory-nature archetype is a dense vibration. Perhaps this defines 3D reality.
    I choose to believe that we are waking up to another way of being/vibrating/ and hence our experience and creation of Reality.
    Depending upon where I focus, I believe this to be so.
    Some days I am not so sure.
    I agree regarding your statements on religion, but things are amping up. way up as we become more and more desentized to violence though the efforts of our government and others as well.

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    Default Re: The Side of Gun Violence No One Talks About: Troubled Homes and Under-Reported Crimes

    I own several guns . . . handguns, rifles, shotguns . . . I know how to use everyone of them without even having to think about it.

    As I type this post I can look up above my door to the outside and see a pump action shotgun and over in the corner there is a .22 rifle with a scope.

    The 22 rifle is for coyotes and fox that come too close to the house, I shoot over them several times until they don’t get the message and then if they continue to threaten my chickens or cats . . . .I shoot them. I only shoot if I have no other choice and if I have a clear shot either to the head or just behind their front leg (heart).

    The pump action shotgun (12 gauge) is for the two-legged hairless varmints that come sneaking around. I had a police officer friend tell me that the only thing scarier than the sound of a shotgun being pumped is the sight of a woman pumping a shotgun.

    I have only used a shotgun once on a human and it was a guy that would not stop stalking me. I had reported him to the police and told him to stop and all that useless nonsense. The last time he came down into my driveway (2:30 am) I ran around the front of the house to cut him off . . . . stood right in front of his car . . . aimed the shotgun right at him, made sure he got the message, and then pulled up and shot over his car . . . .never heard from him again. Period . . . done.

    I grew up with guns and was taught to respect guns at all times. My weapons protect me, my family, and my livestock. They also will protect the people who will come under my care and responsibility when the shtf. More than likely some will be those who hate guns and think the people who own them are evil . . . . and that’s okay with me . . . I respect and honor their position and would never expect them to adopt my view or expect them to learn to use a weapon. But, I have no doubt that when poop is flung everywhere that they will appreciate and even expect someone to take care of them by what ever means. Everyone has their strengths.

    My dad was a patriarch in the county we lived in as I was growing up. In the county next door the sheriff’s name was Buford Pussor . . .as in Walking Tall fame. He was one of my dad’s best friends and was in our house often. At the same time Buford had death warrants out on his life, my Dad had them on him as well. At the same time Buford’s and his wife were being stalked and shot at my Dad was shot twice . . . once with me in the room with him. I pulled my Dad over in the corner, covered his back with towels and waited for them to come back and finish us off. I kept a .45 aimed at the door until the ambulance came. There was no doubt in my mind if they had come through the door that I would have shot them . . . I was fifteen.

    So those of you who are against guns and think the people who use them are evil and that ‘violence should not be met with violence”, what should I have done both with the stalker and with my Dad being shot? My Dad taught us to take care of ourselves and this is what I do.

    If I had a neighbor who was killing cats and dogs for no reason such as in the OP, you can bet at the point I found out this insanity would have stopped. And no I would not have shot him . . . .but there are more than one way to “skin a cat” so to speak and therefore more than one way to stop a disturbed human.

    There is no doubt in my mind that as a woman living alone, secluded out in the country that it is for the pure fact that the community is well aware that I armed and capable that I have absolutely no problems with break-ins or vandalism or any other stupid s**t.

    So there . . . . you have heard from an Avalon member who is in full support of weapons and would absolutely use them if and when it comes to that point . . . after else all other logical choices fail. Don’t judge by idiots with guns . . . judge by those of us who are trained and capable and understand the guns are a tool to be used and level the playing field for all involved.

  32. Link to Post #17
    Avalon Member Flash's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Side of Gun Violence No One Talks About: Troubled Homes and Under-Reported Crimes

    Bluefire, I have been raised in the country, my mom was often alone with us, my dad working far and coming on week ends, and she was armed and did have to show it at least once. There is very good reasons to have guns. The problems is not the gun but the nut cases and the families being under a nut case dad using his guns on them.

    We could not protect my dog though even if my mom could shoot..

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    Default Re: The Side of Gun Violence No One Talks About: Troubled Homes and Under-Reported Crimes

    I think my dad did object to the manner in which the local pet control people disposed of unwanted animals.

    But he should never have done it to our pets. They should have been "given away" or something -- he didn't have to tell us the details.


    I feel a bit like guns are a cheap way out of confrontation.

    Just like the nuke.

    I don't know when it will end. But gov't enforcing disarmament shouldn't happen either.
    "I hear the horses thunder down in the valley below
    I'm waiting for the angels of Avalon, waiting for the eastern glow" ~ Led Zeppelin

    Frank Herbert - The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future.

    John 1:5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

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    Avalon Member Flash's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Side of Gun Violence No One Talks About: Troubled Homes and Under-Reported Crimes

    This is entirely true `Tesla, guns and wars are cheap way out of confrontation or of negotiation.

    Learning to manage ones emotions and learning to communicate is the real way, but it demands more energy at first glance and also good will.

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    Default Re: The Side of Gun Violence No One Talks About: Troubled Homes and Under-Reported Crimes

    Quote Posted by Flash (here)
    This is entirely true `Tesla, guns and wars are cheap way out of confrontation or of negotiation.

    Learning to manage ones emotions and learning to communicate is the real way, but it demands more energy at first glance and also good will.
    hence the roadblocks on the way to the "new age" so many people are wanting.
    "I hear the horses thunder down in the valley below
    I'm waiting for the angels of Avalon, waiting for the eastern glow" ~ Led Zeppelin

    Frank Herbert - The concept of progress acts as a protective mechanism to shield us from the terrors of the future.

    John 1:5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

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