+ Reply to Thread
Page 8 of 13 FirstFirst 1 8 13 LastLast
Results 141 to 160 of 243

Thread: What controls the hologram?

  1. Link to Post #141
    Scotland Avalon Member greybeard's Avatar
    Join Date
    17th March 2010
    Location
    Inverness-----Scotland
    Language
    English
    Age
    78
    Posts
    13,355
    Thanks
    32,618
    Thanked 68,860 times in 11,838 posts

    Default Re: What controls the hologram?

    Dear Observer
    A Course in Miracles (work book) also says that everything you think and see is not true. (The Hindus call this Maya)
    One lesson is "I want to see things as they are"
    One statement in the course says "Know that when you take up a position you are identifying with an illusion"
    The whole course is about correcting the error in thought that we ever left Home/separated from Creator?God any name you choose to use (Singularity)
    Duality---error in perception is brought about by the human ego which is separation device.
    The course is about removing this restriction called ego so that we can see, experience life as it rally is.
    Dr Eben the neuro surgeon, who, before he had his NDE, did not believe consciousness existed after death, that it was a mind function changed his thoughts on this and called the ego a limiter.
    He came to the conclusion that the ego has to be overcome/transcended/tamed for us to move forward as a caring compassionate human race.
    There is a book called A Conscious universe which explains a lot.
    I do not have the knowledge to debate the science and theories discussed here but my simple explanation is that the ego (excessive) is the controlling factor.
    However though this may appear off topic it is just another way of looking at the current human condition which up till now has been, mainly, somewhat self serving and lacking in the finer qualities which are inherent in human beings.

    Chris
    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

  2. The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to greybeard For This Post:

    Finefeather (21st March 2013), Hazel (21st March 2013), Hervé (21st March 2013), heyokah (21st March 2013), lookbeyond (21st March 2013), Marin (21st March 2013), Nanoo Nanoo (21st March 2013)

  3. Link to Post #142
    France Avalon Member araucaria's Avatar
    Join Date
    24th January 2011
    Posts
    5,400
    Thanks
    12,061
    Thanked 30,977 times in 5,003 posts

    Default Re: What controls the hologram?

    Quote Posted by Amzer Zo (here)

    But, even then, the scientific method runs into a big stumbling block:

    Quote Posted by Amzer Zo (here)
    There is a fundamental problem in the scientific method that's been expounded by Carmody and that is: the repeatability of an exact same result under identical conditions.

    The crux of scientific experiments on psychic phenomena reside on "identical conditions" since said conditions of the experiments involve duplicating the exact, identical mindsets around the experiment: THOUGHTS HAVE TO BE THE IDENTICAL SAME!

    If the experimenter has counter-thoughts to the results obtained by the experimentee, after a few attempts the experimentee/subject of investigation is gona end up subconsciously saying something like: "To hell with it!"

    In other words, the influence of the observer onto the observed.

    Hence... mind control...
    An alternative definition of madness comes to mind: conducting the same experiment over and over again and expecting the result to be... the same


  4. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to araucaria For This Post:

    Finefeather (21st March 2013), Hazel (21st March 2013), Hervé (21st March 2013), Nanoo Nanoo (21st March 2013)

  5. Link to Post #143
    South Africa Avalon Retired Member
    Join Date
    14th May 2012
    Location
    South Africa
    Age
    78
    Posts
    1,124
    Thanks
    5,043
    Thanked 7,472 times in 1,084 posts

    Default Re: What controls the hologram?

    Quote Posted by greybeard (here)
    David Sereda : Theoretical Physics & Spiritual Wisdom
    David Sereda Coast to Coast Published on 3 Mar 2013
    Hi Chris
    Got through the David Sereda talk with mixed feelings...and there is no way of verifying his maths and claims. I did get some ideas out of it which might be helpful in this thread.

    The most significant disappointment to me is that not once did he mention thought in his talk, and the fact that thought creates everything. There is not one thing which exists...in any dimension...which is not created by thought. In the 3D physical world thought is reduced to some action or 'solid' object...but in every case it starts off as a thought. Thought is the fundamental building block of existence.

    My view on the singularity is, that it is a state which can only truly be reached when nothing exist...because existence depends entirely on some objectivity.
    Objectivity is also misunderstood because we thing that it is only possible in the 3D physical realm.
    Our normal senses apply only up to the level at which we can determine some event, or object, and when. for example, we see a cloud disappear before our eyes, we think that there is nothing left.
    It is only the degree of our awareness, starting with our 5 senses, which determines objectivity.
    Clairvoyance, for example adds a 6th sense and to these people, objectivity is further enhanced...there are many higher states of objectivity...the word 'objective' the way we use it has been restricted to our narrow limitations.

    The disappearance of a quantum particle...or any object...from the objective world...we know...only means it has left our field of awareness...it does not mean it no longer exists. Then the next important thing we should keep in mind, is that the equipment we use to test and prove science, in laboratories, is only that which has been designed and constructed by the very people who are giving us the answers...how do they know there is not more to it than meets their objectivity?

    Overcoming duality does not mean entering or reaching a state of singularity...it means recognising the cause of our conflict and ceasing to treat it as a threat. We see that if there is an up then there must be a down...we see that were there is light there must be darkness...because without darkness there could be no light. The vision which is reached...is the whole...which is different from the singular. There is no consciousness in singularity...consciousness is born out of duality. David Sereda's idea of knowing ever thing in a state of singularity therefore makes no sense to me...including his idea of knowing all future events from this state.


    Just a though here for consideration:
    The current general human state of awareness is almost entirely reliant on the 5 senses. We see that there are more and more humans becoming more and more aware of other states, beyond our normal senses. These states are the ones which will lead us into the new awareness. This is what evolution is about...becoming more conscious of our surrounding...and thus opening our eyes to our current state of blindness.
    Just as was done in the past when we came to conclusions which today we laugh about, so too will we in another 1000 years time laugh at what we thought was real today. This does not mean that everything we know today is wrong...it only means that we don't yet have the full picture.

    So trying to come to conclusions about something we know little about is a sure way of causing conflict in our lives...because the objectivity of one is not the same as another. Generally speaking scientists are known to be objective...but their objectivity is based on proving something with proven means of verification...which they themselves have no way of comparing to what the real facts might be. This has been known to many famous scientist, like Einstein, who realised the importance which spiritual knowledge plays in the progress of science. To the unyielding objectivist life is about 'you get what you see' and there is nothing intrinsically wrong with that way of thinking...but it is the free spirit thinkers, the new breed of awakening humans, who will lead us to better thinking and better ideas and better answers.

    Take care
    Ray

  6. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Finefeather For This Post:

    CD7 (21st March 2013), Eram (21st March 2013), greybeard (21st March 2013), Hazel (21st March 2013), Hervé (21st March 2013)

  7. Link to Post #144
    Unsubscribed
    Join Date
    21st March 2010
    Location
    the foothills of le Massif Central, France
    Age
    77
    Posts
    1,352
    Thanks
    7,476
    Thanked 4,829 times in 1,059 posts

    Default Re: What controls the hologram?

    Quote Posted by greybeard (here)
    [....]

    ---error in perception is brought about by the human ego .....
    Dear Chris,
    Yes, this might be partially true.
    However mind control and conditioning through upbringing and the education system might be another reason we are identifying with this wonderfully detailed holographic illusion . How and why did we get there?

    Now that's exactly the question of this thread: What controls the hologram?.......


    Quote Posted by Amzer Zo (here)
    [...]

    That would be a good start since none of your so-called "objectivity" has ever been submitted and which, BTW, always end up to a subjective source of past witnesses ever since your interference on the Horus-Ra thread. Otherwise, we are going to end up with something similar to the "Tap on, Tap off" thread where nothing is being demonstrated.
    And let's beware not to end up in word-picking and ego-games unworthy of this forum.

    So again, let's concentrate on the question What controls the hologram?

  8. Link to Post #145
    Scotland Avalon Member greybeard's Avatar
    Join Date
    17th March 2010
    Location
    Inverness-----Scotland
    Language
    English
    Age
    78
    Posts
    13,355
    Thanks
    32,618
    Thanked 68,860 times in 11,838 posts

    Default Re: What controls the hologram?

    [QUOTE=heyokah;651631]
    Quote Posted by greybeard (here)
    [....]

    ---error in perception is brought about by the human ego .....
    Dear Chris,
    Yes, this might be partially true.
    However mind control and conditioning through upbringing and the education system might be another reason we are identifying with this wonderfully detailed holographic illusion . How and why did we get there?

    Now that's exactly the question of this thread: What controls the hologram?.......

    End quote

    Chris said

    "Accepting that control comes through culture conditioning the works.
    Spiritual teaching points out that the ego is the mechanism through which this conditioning control comes about.
    It also points out that this conditioning can be overcome--- perhaps the scientific would cll this deprogramming.
    The language is different but the end result is the same --freedom.
    We are not helpless, we can over ride the control.
    I accept that Operator has put a lot of thought, knowledge, wisdom into this and applaud him for this thread.
    Our way and understanding might be different Observer but we look for the same result, Freedom.

    One of my teachers the late Dr David Hawkins was very clear that we are programmed, manipulated through the mass media---gangster rap etc by the lower astral. The words used in the music is not that important but the frequencies used is---the music is only the carrier of this.
    He basically said "Don’t go there" The wolf in sheep's clothing etc."

    Chris
    Last edited by greybeard; 21st March 2013 at 16:55.
    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

  9. The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to greybeard For This Post:

    Eram (21st March 2013), Finefeather (21st March 2013), Hazel (21st March 2013), Heart-2-Heart (22nd March 2013), Hervé (21st March 2013), heyokah (21st March 2013), lookbeyond (21st March 2013)

  10. Link to Post #146
    South Africa Avalon Retired Member
    Join Date
    14th May 2012
    Location
    South Africa
    Age
    78
    Posts
    1,124
    Thanks
    5,043
    Thanked 7,472 times in 1,084 posts

    Default Re: What controls the hologram?

    Quote Posted by heyokah (here)
    So again, let's concentrate on the question What controls the hologram?
    Well I have been racking my brain to come up with an answer...but I always seem to end up in the objective/subjective trap which observer set for us.
    We have spent 8 pages...and I think we have concluded that the quantum double slit experiment is really of no importance when it comes to who or what controls the hologram.
    I am also not sure if we have actually determined that what we live in is in fact a hologram...in accordance with objective scientific understanding of a hologram.

    I think it is time for you observer to step in and offer some of your objective evidence...which has lead you to come to your conclusion.
    Ray

  11. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Finefeather For This Post:

    Beren (22nd March 2013), Eram (21st March 2013), Fred Steeves (21st March 2013), greybeard (21st March 2013), Hazel (21st March 2013), Hervé (21st March 2013)

  12. Link to Post #147
    France On Sabbatical
    Join Date
    7th March 2011
    Location
    Brittany
    Posts
    16,763
    Thanks
    60,315
    Thanked 95,891 times in 15,481 posts

    Default Re: What controls the hologram?

    Quote Posted by heyokah (here)
    [...]

    Quote Posted by Amzer Zo (here)
    [...]

    That would be a good start since none of your so-called "objectivity" has ever been submitted and which, BTW, always end up to a subjective source of past witnesses ever since your interference on the Horus-Ra thread. Otherwise, we are going to end up with something similar to the "Tap on, Tap off" thread where nothing is being demonstrated.
    And let's beware not to end up in word-picking and ego-games unworthy of this forum.

    So again, let's concentrate on the question What controls the hologram?
    That presupposes there is a hologram to be controlled which is the point of contention: is it a hologram that's being manipulated or the perception of whatever it is that's around; e.g. "The Third Man In The Room"?

    UFOs are one of the best example for such things when in a group of people some see something while others don't. Whose perception is being manipulated? The ones that see something or the ones that don't? This led a number of researchers of the UFO phenomena to conclude said UFOs phenomena to be at the boundary with psychic phenomena like Jacques Vallee.

    This to me leads to the the fundamental questions phrased differently by Chris or WF:

    Quote Posted by Amzer Zo (here)
    If you read the posts in the thread Bill linked to, it appears that most of the "reasons" deduced from the physical universe do not hold much water.. that is, they are decoys and obfuscating the actual reason or source of what sensitives are perceiving.

    My questions, then, are:

    Who or what is doing the perceiving?

    What exactly is being perceived?

    Where exactly is it perceived to be coming from?

    Because, between the telepathic wars amongst the different human and ET factions, the AI interferences by same from satellites and people's "angels" and "demons" as well as "hitchhikers/inserts," the field is pretty much muddied out.
    "La réalité est un rêve que l'on fait atterrir" San Antonio AKA F. Dard

    Troll-hood motto: Never, ever, however, whatsoever, to anyone, a point concede.

  13. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Hervé For This Post:

    Eram (21st March 2013), Finefeather (21st March 2013), greybeard (21st March 2013), Hazel (21st March 2013), heyokah (21st March 2013)

  14. Link to Post #148
    South Africa Avalon Retired Member
    Join Date
    14th May 2012
    Location
    South Africa
    Age
    78
    Posts
    1,124
    Thanks
    5,043
    Thanked 7,472 times in 1,084 posts

    Default Re: What controls the hologram?

    Hey Amzer
    I just noticed this line in your signature...

    “There is a condition worse than blindness, and that is, seeing something that isn't there.”

    At first I did not see it...maybe I was blind for just a moment...yet it was there to see all the time...now I glance at it...it reminds me of when I was blind...I am happy to see again.

  15. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Finefeather For This Post:

    greybeard (21st March 2013), Hazel (21st March 2013), Hervé (21st March 2013), Sebastion (21st March 2013)

  16. Link to Post #149
    Unsubscribed
    Join Date
    21st March 2010
    Location
    the foothills of le Massif Central, France
    Age
    77
    Posts
    1,352
    Thanks
    7,476
    Thanked 4,829 times in 1,059 posts

    Default Re: What controls the hologram?

    Quote Posted by Finefeather (here)

    [...]
    I am also not sure if we have actually determined that what we live in is in fact a hologram...in accordance with objective scientific understanding of a hologram.
    Dear Ray,
    Reading this confession of yours makes me believe you haven't taken the time to watch the 1 hour 22 min. video observer offered in his OP (post 1). Perhaps you stopped after the 5 minutes dealing with the double slit experiment?

    I advice you to watch the video right up till the end so your question will be answered. You will be surprised. It's worth watching.



    Then, if you have the power, watch the 1 hour 26 min video "The Holographic Universe (Thinking Allowed)" of Michael Talbot, which observer offered in his OP as well.

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=8-r3pW-G5BI

    If you think the video a bit too long, you can watch this version I posted earlier in this thread (post 94) and watch the other one later.



    Hope this will be of some help, perhaps to some other members posting in this thread as well

  17. Link to Post #150
    South Africa Avalon Retired Member
    Join Date
    14th May 2012
    Location
    South Africa
    Age
    78
    Posts
    1,124
    Thanks
    5,043
    Thanked 7,472 times in 1,084 posts

    Default Re: What controls the hologram?

    Quote Posted by heyokah (here)
    Quote Posted by Finefeather (here)
    [...]
    I am also not sure if we have actually determined that what we live in is in fact a hologram...in accordance with objective scientific understanding of a hologram.
    Dear Ray,
    Reading this confession of yours makes me believe you haven't taken the time to watch the 1 hour 22 min. video observer offered in his OP (post 1). Perhaps you stopped after the 5 minutes dealing with the double slit experiment?

    I advice you to watch the video right up till the end so your question will be answered. You will be surprised. It's worth watching.
    Hi heyokah
    I must say that my statement was not really a confession at all...in fact if you had read a previous post of mine, I said I had watched all the videos...and then some more! I was merely been courteous because I was not sure that everyone had come to the same conclusion as I did.,,let me explain better.

    It is my opinion that Stephen Davis, creator of the video series, had already come to a conclusion before he even presented the facts to his audience...and uses cleverly contrived methods to herd the audience into believing his conclusions are correct...a subtle technique not unlike mind control...the question is...What did these highly respected scientists actually say. Did you take note of exactly what each one said?

    First of all Stephen Davis makes this statement:
    “Many highly respected quantum physicists are telling us, based on the latest research that we are living in a hologram....which is not real.....and is an illusion.”

    Here is just a quick flit through the respected scientists he uses to prove his theory...I have not used their full statements...just the words we should take note of...you can refresh your memory by watching the video again.

    1. Michael Ledwoth: resembles a hologram picture.
    2. David Bohm: believes that despite it's apparent solidity, the universe is at heart a phantasm – a giant and splendidly detailed hologram.
    3. Dr J Bekenstein: An astonishing theory called the holographic principle holds that the universe is like a hologram...the principle might be true.
    4. Brian Greene: ….a kind of hologram...maybe...
    5. Leonard Susskind: is the 3D world an illusion in the same sense as a hologram is – perhaps – yes..I am inclined to think yes...in a certain peculiar sense, the world is a hologram...wild idea...represented as a hologram.
    6. German Scientists...found a particular sound...one possibility is that the entire universe is a holographic illusion.
    7. Craig Hogan: -we are living in a giant hologram....this he says is an idea...

    Then he uses 2 movies to make the audience feel more comfortable with his idea...
    And finally he makes this bold conclusion.
    “Conclusion to Part 1
    Quantum physic is very clear...what we call “reality” is actually a holographic picture that only looks and feels real to us inside it.”

    There is NOT ONE of his respected scientists that have actually said the world is a hologram...end of search...conclusive fact...each one is subjectively giving his opinion....which make every scientist's testimony or statement, presented...null and void...according to the objective rules of the OP of this thread.

    Let me just conclude by giving a few brief statements on my understanding of this claim and where, in some way, the claim is correct, but NOT in the way the OP or the respected scientists think. Now I might just add that this is my own personal experienced objectivity...which is not acceptable for use in this thread...it is also the exact same as many other esoteric writings...so handle it in the way you feel is best...this is no claim.

    The fact that everything is just a vibration has been known since the dawn of time...only now are our scientists beginning to come close to the truth...well done to them. I would say thank you to those scientist who appeared on this video...despite the incorrect claims by Stephen Davis, creator of the video series, who in my opinion has jumped the gun. I do however feel that his intention is noble and if you continue with his workshop to the end he has set an important seed into motion albeit a little imaginative right now...in time he will want to re address some of his ideas.

    The illusion which we read about in esoteric writings is actually referring to the fact that we are not the body and that the real Spiritual Man is separate from the 3D body and actually lives in, and originates from, a much finer state of vibration. The part of the human being which we are familiar with, which we might call the personality, is in fact a composite of a physical creation and a higher state of intelligence, which uses it for it's own purpose. The thing that few understand is that we as Spiritual Beings have been through an entire cycle or journey in various forms...starting in the world of gross matter and working our way up the order into the plant kingdom and the animal kingdom. We have now arrived in the final stage of physical 3D manifestation...we are young and we have a way to go yet to realise that we are in fact part of a far greater intelligence and Being than we could imagine. Our current and general thinking is still that we are separate and must fight for our survival, like we did in the animal kingdom...this is the cause of the state of the world in all it's many evils and beauty. We are now heading down the home stretch were realisation is fast taking place...we have those who have been through this entire journey, before, coming in their droves to lead us on to the final goal...which will return us...with all the knowledge and wisdom we have gained along the way...back to our source....the one who never left us in the first place...it is only our blindness which has caused our pain and our despair...it is our awakening which will cause peace and love to return.

    Just a short word on the hologram. What we see around us...the stage of our life which has been around since the beginning of time is a creation of highly intelligent and advanced beings who's sole task is to create and manifest the physical universe. They are known in the realms as the Lords of Flame. What we as intelligent beings have done along our long journey...is change it...improved it in many cases...abused it often. Just as our bodies are born out of a seed of quantum potential so is every planet and galaxy born and formed with the help of the great builders...they are the 3rd aspect in the trinity...called the Holy Ghost by Christians and called The Lords of Active Intelligence in esoteric writings.

    The fact of some of us being controlled by others is simply the evidence of the ignorant and arrogant and 'evil' state of the minds of those doing the controlling...and the lack of spiritual understanding and awareness and willingness to be what we are, of those who allow themselves to be controlled.

    Take care and love to all
    Ray

  18. The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to Finefeather For This Post:

    Beren (22nd March 2013), CD7 (22nd March 2013), Delight (22nd March 2013), Eram (22nd March 2013), Hervé (22nd March 2013), lookbeyond (22nd March 2013), Sebastion (22nd March 2013), Swan (22nd March 2013)

  19. Link to Post #151
    Unsubscribed
    Join Date
    21st March 2010
    Location
    the foothills of le Massif Central, France
    Age
    77
    Posts
    1,352
    Thanks
    7,476
    Thanked 4,829 times in 1,059 posts

    Default Re: What controls the hologram?

    OK Ray, this first video I put up was for you perhaps the wrong one, reading your negative ideas about Stephen Davis' intentions .....
    But he's not the only one writing about the holographic universe. Read the work of David Bohm or Michael Talbot for instance.

    Maybe I should have put up the Micheal Talbot video first.

    Quote Posted by Finefeather (here)
    It is my opinion that Stephen Davis, creator of the video series, had already come to a conclusion before he even presented the facts to his audience...and uses cleverly contrived methods to herd the audience into believing his conclusions are correct...
    Isn't this common for people who want to show what they believe is true (or could be true), from the world of physicists to the world of esoteric masters?


    Quote What did these highly respected scientists actually say.....

    {....}

    1. Michael Ledwoth: resembles a hologram picture.
    2. David Bohm: believes that despite it's apparent solidity, the universe is at heart a phantasm – a giant and splendidly detailed hologram.
    3. Dr J Bekenstein: An astonishing theory called the holographic principle holds that the universe is like a hologram...the principle might be true.
    4. Brian Greene: ….a kind of hologram...maybe...
    5. Leonard Susskind: is the 3D world an illusion in the same sense as a hologram is – perhaps – yes..I am inclined to think yes...in a certain peculiar sense, the world is a hologram...wild idea...represented as a hologram.
    6. German Scientists...found a particular sound...one possibility is that the entire universe is a holographic illusion.
    7. Craig Hogan: -we are living in a giant hologram....this he says is an idea....

    {....}

    There is NOT ONE of this respected scientists that have actually said the world is a hologram...end of search...conclusive fact...each one is subjectively giving his opinion....which make every scientist's testimony or statement, presented...null and void.......
    That's how it goes with official statements about revolutionary theories ........

    An adjusted quote I posted before, post 110,

    "the physicists, do NOT say it––or if they do say it, they only whisper it, and in private––furiously blushing as they mouth the words. True, yes; politically correct, hell no!”


    Love to all.

    Yoka - shamanistic yogini with pagan tendencies


    ****

    ADD


    I'm not good at writing lengthy posts because I'm not a native speaker, nor a good writer.
    So my posts will not show an appropriate style nor is my intended meaning expressed very eloquently.

    But I comfort myself with J.W. Von Goethe's quote:

    "in der Beschränkung zeigt sich erst der Meister"
    Last edited by heyokah; 22nd March 2013 at 17:38.

  20. Link to Post #152
    Avalon Member Delight's Avatar
    Join Date
    12th January 2012
    Posts
    6,081
    Thanks
    8,692
    Thanked 39,308 times in 5,717 posts

    Default Re: What controls the hologram?

    Quote Posted by Finefeather (here)
    Quote Posted by heyokah (here)
    Quote Posted by Finefeather (here)
    [...]
    I am also not sure if we have actually determined that what we live in is in fact a hologram...in accordance with objective scientific understanding of a hologram.
    Dear Ray,
    Reading this confession of yours makes me believe you haven't taken the time to watch the 1 hour 22 min. video observer offered in his OP (post 1). Perhaps you stopped after the 5 minutes dealing with the double slit experiment?

    I advice you to watch the video right up till the end so your question will be answered. You will be surprised. It's worth watching.
    Hi heyokah
    I must say that my statement was not really a confession at all...in fact if you had read a previous post of mine, I said I had watched all the videos...and then some more! I was merely been courteous because I was not sure that everyone had come to the same conclusion as I did.,,let me explain better.

    It is my opinion that Stephen Davis, creator of the video series, had already come to a conclusion before he even presented the facts to his audience...and uses cleverly contrived methods to herd the audience into believing his conclusions are correct...a subtle technique not unlike mind control...the question is...What did these highly respected scientists actually say. Did you take note of exactly what each one said?

    First of all Stephen Davis makes this statement:
    “Many highly respected quantum physicists are telling us, based on the latest research that we are living in a hologram....which is not real.....and is an illusion.”

    Here is just a quick flit through the respected scientists he uses to prove his theory...I have not used their full statements...just the words we should take note of...you can refresh your memory by watching the video again.

    1. Michael Ledwoth: resembles a hologram picture.
    2. David Bohm: believes that despite it's apparent solidity, the universe is at heart a phantasm – a giant and splendidly detailed hologram.
    3. Dr J Bekenstein: An astonishing theory called the holographic principle holds that the universe is like a hologram...the principle might be true.
    4. Brian Greene: ….a kind of hologram...maybe...
    5. Leonard Susskind: is the 3D world an illusion in the same sense as a hologram is – perhaps – yes..I am inclined to think yes...in a certain peculiar sense, the world is a hologram...wild idea...represented as a hologram.
    6. German Scientists...found a particular sound...one possibility is that the entire universe is a holographic illusion.
    7. Craig Hogan: -we are living in a giant hologram....this he says is an idea...

    Then he uses 2 movies to make the audience feel more comfortable with his idea...
    And finally he makes this bold conclusion.
    “Conclusion to Part 1
    Quantum physic is very clear...what we call “reality” is actually a holographic picture that only looks and feels real to us inside it.”

    There is NOT ONE of his respected scientists that have actually said the world is a hologram...end of search...conclusive fact...each one is subjectively giving his opinion....which make every scientist's testimony or statement, presented...null and void...according to the objective rules of the OP of this thread.

    Let me just conclude by giving a few brief statements on my understanding of this claim and where, in some way, the claim is correct, but NOT in the way the OP or the respected scientists think. Now I might just add that this is my own personal experienced objectivity...which is not acceptable for use in this thread...it is also the exact same as many other esoteric writings...so handle it in the way you feel is best...this is no claim.

    The fact that everything is just a vibration has been known since the dawn of time...only now are our scientists beginning to come close to the truth...well done to them. I would say thank you to those scientist who appeared on this video...despite the incorrect claims by Stephen Davis, creator of the video series, who in my opinion has jumped the gun. I do however feel that his intention is noble and if you continue with his workshop to the end he has set an important seed into motion albeit a little imaginative right now...in time he will want to re address some of his ideas.

    The illusion which we read about in esoteric writings is actually referring to the fact that we are not the body and that the real Spiritual Man is separate from the 3D body and actually lives in, and originates from, a much finer state of vibration. The part of the human being which we are familiar with, which we might call the personality, is in fact a composite of a physical creation and a higher state of intelligence, which uses it for it's own purpose. The thing that few understand is that we as Spiritual Beings have been through an entire cycle or journey in various forms...starting in the world of gross matter and working our way up the order into the plant kingdom and the animal kingdom. We have now arrived in the final stage of physical 3D manifestation...we are young and we have a way to go yet to realise that we are in fact part of a far greater intelligence and Being than we could imagine. Our current and general thinking is still that we are separate and must fight for our survival, like we did in the animal kingdom...this is the cause of the state of the world in all it's many evils and beauty. We are now heading down the home stretch were realisation is fast taking place...we have those who have been through this entire journey, before, coming in their droves to lead us on to the final goal...which will return us...with all the knowledge and wisdom we have gained along the way...back to our source....the one who never left us in the first place...it is only our blindness which has caused our pain and our despair...it is our awakening which will cause peace and love to return.

    Just a short word on the hologram. What we see around us...the stage of our life which has been around since the beginning of time is a creation of highly intelligent and advanced beings who's sole task is to create and manifest the physical universe. They are known in the realms as the Lords of Flame. What we as intelligent beings have done along our long journey...is change it...improved it in many cases...abused it often. Just as our bodies are born out of a seed of quantum potential so is every planet and galaxy born and formed with the help of the great builders...they are the 3rd aspect in the trinity...called the Holy Ghost by Christians and called The Lords of Active Intelligence in esoteric writings.

    The fact of some of us being controlled by others is simply the evidence of the ignorant and arrogant and 'evil' state of the minds of those doing the controlling...and the lack of spiritual understanding and awareness and willingness to be what we are, of those who allow themselves to be controlled.

    Take care and love to all
    Ray
    I am pretty sure that this is a hologram and we are in a science project. Here is an interesting statement about the "imbalance" that is unreal to creates the illusion we necessary for an experience.
    Quote If the universe is all that is and there is nothing outside per say, then all movement is contained within. If all movement is contained within, and all movement has an equal and opposite reaction than the sum of all energies always equals zero. if you were floating in the dark of space, and all you had was a medicine ball. You could flail, and gyrate, and move, but you would never get anywhere. You would supposedly create lots of movement, but the sum of it would always be a net of zero. You might even think to throw the ball, now it will head off in one direction with a quanta of energy, and you the other direction with a quanta of energy, both equal and opposite, so both add to zero. This shows that energy really can never be gained nor lost, but simulated. This means that from rest all things come and to rest all things return, and that mathematically the sum all all is nothing. http://www.energeticforum.com/80511-post32.html
    So, maybe the hologram is controlled by the Supreme Imbalance (Chaos) and that is a good and precious gift.......

    I used to worry about "Someone or something" controlling me. I had no trust in anything. I was terrified and contracted. I believe the "physics" of this state is what feels like victimization.

    Now I feel totally different. My intention is to experience a cooperation with Creator. I still don't understand much at all but I feel very confident about the potential I have to be a working partner in "whatever" this life really is about. And because I feel this way, my life is changing.

    This is in part because I have started living uncomfortably by not going along with the "collective" idea of what I am to be accomplishing. I EXPECT that by taking the stand to be illumined, I am illumined more and more.

    Walter Russell may be beyond my mental capacity but I hear something in what he writes that feels absolutely TRUE... not "illusion". We are meant to express newness and refreshment out of the illusion. Then we have contributed to the whole.



    I have been comparing the work to Russell.... It resonates as something kindred.


    Check out

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/118557131/...by-Aaity-Olson

    Also this is really fascinating to me because it looks like Russellian pictures..



    I now see trust as a choice we have to give to "the greater" Self out of the repetitive arrangement of matrix. Trust in our "Selves" as god sounds almost religious but is not... the truth was taken by religion etc and used against us. Cooperation in love and willingness to change are impossible without trust in a larger state... At least for me. Maggie

  21. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Delight For This Post:

    Eram (22nd March 2013), Finefeather (22nd March 2013), gardunk (22nd March 2013)

  22. Link to Post #153
    South Africa Avalon Retired Member
    Join Date
    14th May 2012
    Location
    South Africa
    Age
    78
    Posts
    1,124
    Thanks
    5,043
    Thanked 7,472 times in 1,084 posts

    Default Re: What controls the hologram?

    Quote Posted by heyokah (here)
    OK Ray, this first video I put up was for you perhaps the wrong one, reading your negative ideas about Stephen Davis' intentions .....
    But he's not the only one writing about the holographic universe. Read the work of David Bohm or Michael Talbot for instance.
    Maybe I should have put up the Micheal Talbot video first.
    Hi heyokah
    Thank you for your critique and reply.
    I have watched Michael Talbot as well...so I don't think I am missing anything which would change my thinking...thanks for your efforts to enlighten me.

    At no time should you get the impression that I am trying to debunk the hologram concept as pure non sense...I am not...I am just saying that there is no scientific absolute proof yet of the theory in the way they are proposing it...and I think there never will be...but it does not end there.
    Stephen Davis seems to think it does...and makes that statement quite clear and that is not true...so from my point of view he is assuming a phenomena, and selling this as fact...so it must be subjective.
    My point is that scientists and video presenters can give subjective comment...and be used as evidence...but others cannot...why would that be so? Because there is no evidence yet.

    Why can't we just see this and move on?...to where?

    This is a really intense subject and I have experienced it most of my life...albeit in another way...and I know it cannot be properly described on a forum post...let along a video series. We are talking about the very essence of life here...humans are far away from being able to understand the real mechanics...we just don't have the brain capacity yet.

    Briefly...I would state that the hologram principle that is being presented is false...because a hologram is a light phenomena and life in the 3D world is primarily a matter phenomena.
    In fact if you enter the higher dimensions, the higher you go the more it resembles a hologram as we know it...I have experienced this thousands of times. In these realms we are light...in the 3D world this light has been stepped down to matter...inside every particle of matter is light.
    Everyone on this planet constantly creates patterns and thought forms, which I have seen many times, in the realms just out of our sensory perception.
    The 'Field' or 'Unified Field' which science talks about certainly exists but it too has numerous levels of manifestation...and what they are detecting is merely the physical plane level of this phenomena...there are many more. We think we have cracked the code to the universe by getting to the point where quantum particles disappear...this is a great step for us...but life does not end there.
    Quantum particles are huge in comparison to what lies in the higher dimensions. There are many many much smaller particles but we will never see them because they are out of our range.

    Where this concept, of the hologram, being presented, comes close to the real deal, is the fact that objects are materialized out of the standing wave of matter which is only present in this dimension. Matter is essentially energy that has undergone focused alignment, by thought. The hologram we are discussing here is about light...you can put your hand through light but not through matter in this dimension.
    When you play around in the higher planes you can walk right through walls. I have walked right through my bedroom wall many times.

    If you read my last paragraphs I am clearly not negative about this advancement we are making.
    I am very happy to see that science is finally realising what metaphysics has been telling them for ages. Out of this hologram theory will come the real truth and so to me this is good. I salute all forward thinking scientists who bravely force the evolution of the stuff the die hards expect us to believe. The holographic principle will lead to greater discoveries...it is however, IMO, one that will stagnate unless we scientifically prove life after death, and out of body capabilities...from this will come rapid evolution.

    Quote Posted by heyokah (here)
    Isn't this common for people who want to show what they believe is true (or could be true), from the world of physicists to the world of esoteric masters?
    Yes it is...unfortunately...although I have not noticed such blatant assumption from esoteric masters...do you know one who has stated an unproven fact?

    Take care and much love
    Ray

  23. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Finefeather For This Post:

    conk (19th July 2013), Eram (22nd March 2013), Hervé (22nd March 2013), heyokah (22nd March 2013), lookbeyond (22nd March 2013)

  24. Link to Post #154
    Avalon Member gardunk's Avatar
    Join Date
    5th January 2011
    Location
    upstate new york, usa
    Age
    73
    Posts
    213
    Thanks
    428
    Thanked 341 times in 128 posts

    Default Re: What controls the hologram?

    What is that physical evidence? Perception/ perception thru technologies? You still seem to be trying to be objective with and thru subj constructs which is and endless debate and not that pertinent to me. Another stumbling block for me is your insinuation that what you term quantum physics is any less subjective. If you look at Larsens stuff or any that have shown the cracks in quantum theory I would suggest a differeny argument to get to your desired destination/ aether physics would be my suggestion...
    I see I missed a few pages and this may not be relevant to where this discussion has gone but thanks to all of you for all the input/ it unveils issues that are all over the board and sadly seems to leave more questions than answers....
    Last edited by gardunk; 22nd March 2013 at 19:06. Reason: additional comment

  25. The Following User Says Thank You to gardunk For This Post:

    Beren (24th March 2013)

  26. Link to Post #155
    Avalon Member gardunk's Avatar
    Join Date
    5th January 2011
    Location
    upstate new york, usa
    Age
    73
    Posts
    213
    Thanks
    428
    Thanked 341 times in 128 posts

    Default Re: What controls the hologram?

    Not to detract but I think the concept of a singularity is a problem and a thought construct by itself/ like the argument of black holes as if it all ends there and is not a fluid system that connects to a white hole and all phenomena of the aether/ guys like Hawking use the singularity to create walls around their math functions and I believe the same is true for quantum theory/

  27. The Following User Says Thank You to gardunk For This Post:

    Finefeather (22nd March 2013)

  28. Link to Post #156
    Scotland Avalon Member greybeard's Avatar
    Join Date
    17th March 2010
    Location
    Inverness-----Scotland
    Language
    English
    Age
    78
    Posts
    13,355
    Thanks
    32,618
    Thanked 68,860 times in 11,838 posts

    Default Re: What controls the hologram?

    This may or may not be helpful.

    From a deep spiritual teaching point of view there is a lot of anecdotal evidence that in the enlightened state there is to time, no space, no linear time, therefore no sequence, everything (past present future) happened at the same eternal moment. The human mind, in order to experience, puts a seeming cause and affect and therefore sequence to everything.
    The unenlightened cant get this, the mind cant, there is no reference point for it.

    The enlightened state is testified to be non-locational-- where ever intention is focused that where the "experience" is.
    In essence everything is of the same One. The I am is everywhere.
    The "I am That" is the space in which everything including the human experience occurs.
    in I am That is contained everything and I am contained in everything--there is only One self and that Self is within every stone blade of grass the sparrow the Sun the Cosmos all One entity expressing It Self in billions of ways, each way unique.

    So Chris is the hologram and so is everything else--the smallest atom within me which is 99.5% empty space (Dark Matter= God) contains absolutely everything--- I can not see that I, in the essence of One, is controlled---what is separate from One without a second to control anything?

    So that's my current understanding--- Im not saying Im right.

    Chris
    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

  29. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to greybeard For This Post:

    Beren (24th March 2013), conk (19th July 2013), lookbeyond (22nd March 2013)

  30. Link to Post #157
    Avalon Member gardunk's Avatar
    Join Date
    5th January 2011
    Location
    upstate new york, usa
    Age
    73
    Posts
    213
    Thanks
    428
    Thanked 341 times in 128 posts

    Default Re: What controls the hologram?

    So we question the noun hologram
    and we question the verb control
    What is in both questioning= WE
    Therefore I propose that WE control the hologram
    Yet the hologram and our control only exist in our awareness....

  31. The Following User Says Thank You to gardunk For This Post:

    greybeard (22nd March 2013)

  32. Link to Post #158
    South Africa Avalon Retired Member
    Join Date
    14th May 2012
    Location
    South Africa
    Age
    78
    Posts
    1,124
    Thanks
    5,043
    Thanked 7,472 times in 1,084 posts

    Default Re: What controls the hologram?

    Hi Maggie...excellent video...watching the whole series...thanks, Ray

  33. The Following User Says Thank You to Finefeather For This Post:

    greybeard (22nd March 2013)

  34. Link to Post #159
    Scotland Avalon Member greybeard's Avatar
    Join Date
    17th March 2010
    Location
    Inverness-----Scotland
    Language
    English
    Age
    78
    Posts
    13,355
    Thanks
    32,618
    Thanked 68,860 times in 11,838 posts

    Default Re: What controls the hologram?

    Cleve Baxter Primary perception worth looking into.
    Everything is connected to everything else and at some level aware of everything else.


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleve_Backster
    Primary perception

    His study of plants began in the 1960s, when he reported observing that a polygraph instrument attached to a plant leaf registered a change in electrical resistance when the plant was harmed or even threatened with harm. He argued that plants perceived human intentions, and as Backster began to investigate further, he also reported a finding that other human thoughts and emotions caused reactions in plants that could be recorded by a polygraph instrument. His work was in part inspired by the research of Sir Jagadish Chandra Bose,[3] who claimed to have discovered that playing certain kinds of music in the area where plants grew caused them to grow faster.

    He termed the plants' sensitivity to thoughts "primary perception," and published his findings from the experiments in the International Journal of Parapsychology.[4] The article was met with wide criticism of his research methods. However Backster gained the interest of other researchers and expanded his experimental range to test for primary perceptions in other life forms such as yogurt, bacteria and human cells.

    Since then Backster has presented his work at numerous scientific meetings including those of the Institute of Noetic Sciences (IONS), founded by astronaut Edgar Mitchell, and the Institute for Transpersonal Psychology in Palo Alto, CA.

    Ingo Swann tested positive in these plant tests, and went on to help develop Remote Viewing at Stanford University with Dr Hal Puthoff.
    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

  35. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to greybeard For This Post:

    Finefeather (23rd March 2013), Hervé (23rd March 2013), heyokah (23rd March 2013)

  36. Link to Post #160
    Unsubscribed
    Join Date
    21st March 2010
    Location
    the foothills of le Massif Central, France
    Age
    77
    Posts
    1,352
    Thanks
    7,476
    Thanked 4,829 times in 1,059 posts

    Default Re: What controls the hologram?

    Quote Posted by greybeard (here)
    Cleve Baxter Primary perception worth looking into.
    Everything is connected to everything else and at some level aware of everything else.


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleve_Backster
    Primary perception

    His study of plants began in the 1960s, when he reported observing that a polygraph instrument attached to a plant leaf registered a change in electrical resistance when the plant was harmed or even threatened with harm. He argued that plants perceived human intentions, and as Backster began to investigate further, he also reported a finding that other human thoughts and emotions caused reactions in plants that could be recorded by a polygraph instrument. His work was in part inspired by the research of Sir Jagadish Chandra Bose,[3] who claimed to have discovered that playing certain kinds of music in the area where plants grew caused them to grow faster.

    He termed the plants' sensitivity to thoughts "primary perception," and published his findings from the experiments in the International Journal of Parapsychology.[4] The article was met with wide criticism of his research methods. However Backster gained the interest of other researchers and expanded his experimental range to test for primary perceptions in other life forms such as yogurt, bacteria and human cells.

    Since then Backster has presented his work at numerous scientific meetings including those of the Institute of Noetic Sciences (IONS), founded by astronaut Edgar Mitchell, and the Institute for Transpersonal Psychology in Palo Alto, CA.

    Ingo Swann tested positive in these plant tests, and went on to help develop Remote Viewing at Stanford University with Dr Hal Puthoff.

    This is a version of the classic and rare 1979 documentary.

    The Secret Life of Plants



+ Reply to Thread
Page 8 of 13 FirstFirst 1 8 13 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts