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    Default Re: Especially for women...

    @ aceninja: thanks for shedding another, important light to the debate. I agree with the framework you set, but not how you fill it in. Yes, it's important that men and women work together, that we step beyond stereotypes, and that we act selflessly.

    At the same time I would like to pose some counterquestions:
    - what can possibly be confrontational about a pregnancy or about naturally-shaped breast? Who has thrown the baby out with bath water, the one who instructs women (and men also but to a lesser degree) their bodies should look in a certain way, or the one who claims back her/his power?
    I do agree with one thing: once we (men AND women) claim back our power, we should be prepared for "negative" reactions from others, since by the very act itself we will be a threat to traditional structures. When you truly stand in your power, no reaction from anyone can bug you or harm you anymore.

    - isn't a pregnancy the most amazing sign of bringing forth a new life, and thus divine in itself and should be honored as such? And yes, this is beyond cliches - I know a man who just adores pregnant women and finds them even more attractive than non-pregnant women

    - concerning feminism: I think the only way to bring the balance back in families is stepping beyond the hunter-gatherer cliche, so that both mom and dad or both moms and both dads can take responsibility, financially, emotionally and in whatever other way as parent. So many configurations are possible (both parents working, one working, one stay at home) and the strength versus emotion paradigm i.m.h.o. is an old world classification that does not do justice to the capacities of each individual. Some men are more "ying" and some women are more "yang"...

    I'd like to close off with quote by Eckhart Tolle, from a "new earth", which gives us all something to think about from a historical perspective (which again, I think is shifting):

    "The suppression of the feminine principle especially over the past two thousand years has enabled the ego to gain absolute supremacy in the collective human psyche. Although women have egos, of course, the ego can take root and grow more easily in the male form than in the female. This is because women are less mind-identified than men. (...) The female form is less rigidly encapsulated than the male, has greater openness and sensitivity toward other life forms, and is more attuned to the natural world.
    If the balance between male and female energies had not been destroyed on our planet, the ego's growth would have been greatly curtailed. We would not have declared war on nature, and we would not be so completely alienated from our Being.
    Nobody knows the exact figure (...) but it seems certain that during a three-hundred-year period between three and five million women were tortured and killed by the "Holy Inquisition" (...). The sacred feminine was declared demonic, and an entire dimension largely disappeared from human experience. (...) Women's status was reduced to being child bearers and men's property. Male who denied the feminine within themselves were now running the world ... The rest is history or rather a case history of insanity. (...) What is it that suddenly made men feel threatened by the female? The evolving ego in them. It knew it could gain full control of our planet only through the male form, and to do so, it had to render the female powerless.
    In time, the ego also took over most women, although it could never become as deeply entrenched in them as in men. We now have a situation in which the suppression of the feminine has become internalized, even in most women. The sacred feminine, because it is suppressed, is felt by many women as emotional pain. In fact, it has become part of their pain-body, together with the accumulated pain suffered by women over millennia through childbirth, rape, slavery, torture and violent death." (p. 155-157)
    Interestingly, Tolle describes how this pain body become active before and during menstruation (hence, PMS)...

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    Default Re: Especially for women...

    Quote Posted by CdnSirian (here)
    .
    Women want bras for comfort - and there are so few! I mean after the hundred + years not one bra designer has tried to get them sold in halves so you can get the real size you want on each side.

    Oh yeah that's on that other planet.
    Why don't you design and market one? You can earn a very good living! I will be your first client. But please don't put any metal wires in it

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    Default Re: Especially for women...

    Quote Northstar: The most natural contraceptive method for me has been getting to know my body and its ovulation process.
    I think, for methods like this to work, as well as birth control through intent, which is one step further, you have to have a very close relationship with your body and the depths of your psyche. If you have any deep desires for getting pregnant, your body will respond to that and play 'tricks' that are hard to keep up with, even with all the measuring tools, such as the shifting of the ovulation, or even spontaneous ovulation. The body is capable of so many things, but will always respond to our mental instructions.

    which is why I think this method has not been found to be very safe in clinical trials...

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    Default Re: Especially for women...

    Stop press I have just finished listening to a utube interview with Mr Barrie Trower, Vital information for everyone. But with all the gems that are here one thing most relevant to this topic he states that microwaves that are present in the atmosphere do cause cancer and breast tissue is very susceptible to these waves Especially if they are WIRED BRAS as they accumulate these cancer causing waves.

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=iSBN4YxYORU
    Last edited by sheme; 12th April 2013 at 12:15.

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    Default Re: Especially for women...

    Haha beat this bra industry!

    BETTER OFF WITHOUT A BRA

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    Default Re: Especially for women...

    Having worked as a physical therapist, I can confirm that the majority of women, in the UK at least, wear the wrong size bra. I would sometimes be amazed at how anyone could continue wearing something so obviously the wrong size, couldn't they see or feel the bright red grroves in their bodies ? No one would walk around in shoes which were 4 sizes too small, would they ?

    Anyway, I recently was browsing for a bra for my girlfriend who is a Filipina, so I knew her size to be 34B, and being in China, where they use metric measurements, I simply converted 34 inches into centimetres (86) to get the European size, and therefore went looking for an 85B. I was bemused at how everything was much smaller than this. I was especially confused because I've always been able to judge a woman's size with one look, and I've been in China 5 years and know full well that the women, especially where I live, are in the 32 to 36 range. Anyway, I came back home and decided to check online for bra size conversion, where I discovered, not only that my naive assumption about converting from inches to centimtres was wrong, but that sizes in the UK, USA and Australia are all different !!!! The sizes in Europe are also different - how the hell is it that we can't get this right ? No wonder there are women wearing the wrong size !!! Would any of the British women here NOT assume that their bra size in the USA would be the same ? Here's a link to a conversion chart .....

    French scientist bemused by buzz over bra research

    As for the comments some of you have received from men (troglodytes is a better word), I'm speechless.
    Last edited by ThePythonicCow; 15th April 2013 at 02:17.

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    Default Re: Especially for women...

    Thought Id share this wonderful video of women in India standing in their power and changing societies view on women village by village.

    Last edited by Satkirn; 23rd June 2013 at 23:40.

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    Default Re: Especially for women...

    Oops it's not showing Satkirn.

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    Default Re: Especially for women...

    Quote Posted by Satkirn (here)
    Thought Id share this wonderful video of women in India standing in their power and changing societies view on women village by village.
    It looks like you forgot to put in the URL of the video, Satkirn . It does not show.
    My quite dormant website: pauljackson.us

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    Default Re: Especially for women...

    Quote Posted by Satkirn (here)
    Thought Id share this wonderful video of women in India standing in their power and changing societies view on women village by village.
    Link is not there, could you re-do please? : )

    edit: opps you beat me to the punch Paul
    Last edited by Sidney; 20th June 2013 at 15:17.

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    Default Re: Especially for women...

    don't need a bra .. not natural ... just take 2 half coconut shells ... and tape them on

    jim

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    Default Re: Especially for women...

    Quote Posted by jiminii (here)
    don't need a bra .. not natural ... just take 2 half coconut shells ... and tape them on

    jim
    Jiiminii,

    And I thought you were a serious dude!!!

    Coconut shells and tape would tear the delicate skin off, leading to bleed, infect and leave scars.

    Your very bright mind is not very practical when it comes to this subject.

    I wonder what you would recommend in place of jock straps.

    Anyhow, don't enlighten us on jock straps since this thread is not about that.

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    Default Re: Especially for women...

    [QUOTE=Vitalux;650509]
    Quote Posted by gracieuse (here)

    Funny story: once in summer, I went running with just a tank top. I ran by a group of workers in the street who were fixing the pavement, and one of them stopped and angrily shouted at me that I should put on a bra. Isn't this hilarious, that being braless can offend the male ego?

    If I had my wish I would have had that worker that shouted at you horse whipped.
    I believe wholeheartedly that women should be able to go braless, or even go topless in public.

    Why women subject themselves to bras, make-up and high heal shoes is kind of odd to me.
    If it was fashionable,or a social norm for women to wear a dead chicken on their head would they do it?

    I was bitching once about the veiled women in the Muslim world, from those wearing the scarf only (hijab) et those fully covered, saying they were in jail in their own body. My male friend then asked me: "tell me, what is the difference between a women wearing the scarf and long clothes versus the women having false breast, false teeth, false hair, not able to get out without make up, high heels (with back pain) and very uncomfortable tight clothes, which one is more in jail in her own body?" Good point. We should plainly learn to love ourselves.

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    Default Re: Especially for women...

    Quote Posted by gracieuse (here)

    I'd like to close off with quote by Eckhart Tolle, from a "new earth", which gives us all something to think about from a historical perspective (which again, I think is shifting):

    "The suppression of the feminine principle especially over the past two thousand years has enabled the ego to gain absolute supremacy in the collective human psyche. Although women have egos, of course, the ego can take root and grow more easily in the male form than in the female. This is because women are less mind-identified than men. (...) The female form is less rigidly encapsulated than the male, has greater openness and sensitivity toward other life forms, and is more attuned to the natural world.
    If the balance between male and female energies had not been destroyed on our planet, the ego's growth would have been greatly curtailed. We would not have declared war on nature, and we would not be so completely alienated from our Being.
    Nobody knows the exact figure (...) but it seems certain that during a three-hundred-year period between three and five million women were tortured and killed by the "Holy Inquisition" (...). The sacred feminine was declared demonic, and an entire dimension largely disappeared from human experience. (...) Women's status was reduced to being child bearers and men's property. Male who denied the feminine within themselves were now running the world ... The rest is history or rather a case history of insanity. (...) What is it that suddenly made men feel threatened by the female? The evolving ego in them. It knew it could gain full control of our planet only through the male form, and to do so, it had to render the female powerless.
    In time, the ego also took over most women, although it could never become as deeply entrenched in them as in men. We now have a situation in which the suppression of the feminine has become internalized, even in most women. The sacred feminine, because it is suppressed, is felt by many women as emotional pain. In fact, it has become part of their pain-body, together with the accumulated pain suffered by women over millennia through childbirth, rape, slavery, torture and violent death." (p. 155-157)
    Interestingly, Tolle describes how this pain body become active before and during menstruation (hence, PMS)...
    That is sooo interesting, particularly the part about women having built their ego as well, suppressed their feminine and when the feminine express itself, it is felt in the pain body, as emotional pain.

    This, from my own personal experience, cannot be more true. I have been raised using my brain for studies, and then always worked in a male world. Therefore, I had to suppress emotions and inner feelings (they take more time to process and in a male world, action is prime, not time for processing).

    I ended up at the other end of my career extremely dissatisfied by work experiences and mostly, having very difficult time with women in management whose suppression of the feminine in their attitude was worst than mine. I must say that I was/am in total emotional pain regarding work. This has nothing to do with the challenges and interests in the work itself, it was/is very stimulating, this has to do with suppression of the feminine 8 hours plus a day.

    Furthermore, when I was pregnant, with a daughter, I was very sad. Someone asked me "why?" and my answer was "because I know she will have a much more difficult life than any boy would have", and I do not wish that for her. Right or wrong, it does not matter, what matters is that I was expression my emotional body pain about suppression of my own feminine.

    I truly love her by now, 16 years later, she is really beautiful and does impose herself as feminine yet decisive. I hope she will make me wrong on the difficulties women encounter versus men.

    A little à côté: I always feel like my feminine is suppressed while reading or exchanging with some very male energies here, such as Bill (my own confession), sometimes Paul, and others. I am however very much knowing that those are my own perception in regard to my own supressions of feminine. It really feels like when I communicate with someone from another culture, who does not know mine, and where I am the one making all the effort to adapt and translate cultural concepts, here being translating different cultural (feminine) point of views and having to make one sided efforts all along.
    Last edited by Flash; 20th June 2013 at 18:28.

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    Default Re: Especially for women...

    [QUOTE=Flash;690797]
    Quote Posted by Vitalux (here)
    Quote Posted by gracieuse (here)

    Funny story: once in summer, I went running with just a tank top. I ran by a group of workers in the street who were fixing the pavement, and one of them stopped and angrily shouted at me that I should put on a bra. Isn't this hilarious, that being braless can offend the male ego?

    If I had my wish I would have had that worker that shouted at you horse whipped.
    I believe wholeheartedly that women should be able to go braless, or even go topless in public.

    Why women subject themselves to bras, make-up and high heal shoes is kind of odd to me.
    If it was fashionable,or a social norm for women to wear a dead chicken on their head would they do it?

    I was bitching once about the veiled women in the Muslim world, from those wearing the scarf only (hijab) et those fully covered, saying they were in jail in their own body. My male friend then asked me: "tell me, what is the difference between a women wearing the scarf and long clothes versus the women having false breast, false teeth, false hair, not able to get out without make up, high heels (with back pain) and very uncomfortable tight clothes, which one is more in jail in her own body?" Good point. We should plainly learn to love ourselves.
    Flash,

    I get your point and I respect it.

    What bothers me about seeing Muslim women who are covered from head to toe is that they are robbed of their identity. It's a uniform which states that she doesn't own herself.

    In the Western world, we have a choice (in most cases) as to whether we want to enhance or change our natural looks or not. Those Muslim women do not have a choice. They have to submit to religious traditions and the dictates of their men. We can choose how we want to look, to a degree, of course.

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  24. Link to Post #96
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    Default Re: Especially for women...

    Quote Posted by Anchor (here)
    Quote Posted by gracieuse (here)
    Funny story: once in summer, I went running with just a tank top. I ran by a group of workers in the street who were fixing the pavement, and one of them stopped and angrily shouted at me that I should put on a bra.
    What a freaking spoilsport. I hope you told him to buzz off ... As a male, I do not support his position.

    Here, I have a collection of skipping ropes I would like you to try out

    (Sorry I am just so immature )
    Or tell them to wear jack straps....

    Just read a few posts from the thread right now and realized I might have been too serious with my previous two posts.

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    Default Re: Especially for women...

    Quote Posted by Flash (here)
    Quote Posted by gracieuse (here)

    I'd like to close off with quote by Eckhart Tolle, from a "new earth", which gives us all something to think about from a historical perspective (which again, I think is shifting):

    "The suppression of the feminine principle especially over the past two thousand years has enabled the ego to gain absolute supremacy in the collective human psyche. Although women have egos, of course, the ego can take root and grow more easily in the male form than in the female. This is because women are less mind-identified than men. (...) The female form is less rigidly encapsulated than the male, has greater openness and sensitivity toward other life forms, and is more attuned to the natural world.
    If the balance between male and female energies had not been destroyed on our planet, the ego's growth would have been greatly curtailed. We would not have declared war on nature, and we would not be so completely alienated from our Being.
    Nobody knows the exact figure (...) but it seems certain that during a three-hundred-year period between three and five million women were tortured and killed by the "Holy Inquisition" (...). The sacred feminine was declared demonic, and an entire dimension largely disappeared from human experience. (...) Women's status was reduced to being child bearers and men's property. Male who denied the feminine within themselves were now running the world ... The rest is history or rather a case history of insanity. (...) What is it that suddenly made men feel threatened by the female? The evolving ego in them. It knew it could gain full control of our planet only through the male form, and to do so, it had to render the female powerless.
    In time, the ego also took over most women, although it could never become as deeply entrenched in them as in men. We now have a situation in which the suppression of the feminine has become internalized, even in most women. The sacred feminine, because it is suppressed, is felt by many women as emotional pain. In fact, it has become part of their pain-body, together with the accumulated pain suffered by women over millennia through childbirth, rape, slavery, torture and violent death." (p. 155-157)
    Interestingly, Tolle describes how this pain body become active before and during menstruation (hence, PMS)...
    That is sooo interesting, particularly the part about women having built their ego as well, suppressed their feminine and when the feminine express itself, it is felt in the pain body, as emotional pain.

    This, from my own personal experience, cannot be more true. I have been raised using my brain for studies, and then always worked in a male world. Therefore, I had to suppress emotions and inner feelings (they take more time to process and in a male world, action is prime, not time for processing).

    I ended up at the other end of my career extremely dissatisfied by work experiences and mostly, having very difficult time with women in management whose suppression of the feminine in their attitude was worst than mine. I must say that I was/am in total emotional pain regarding work. This has nothing to do with the challenges and interests in the work itself, it was/is very stimulating, this has to do with suppression of the feminine 8 hours plus a day.

    Furthermore, when I was pregnant, with a daughter, I was very sad. Someone asked me "why?" and my answer was "because I know she will have a much more difficult life than any boy would have", and I do not wish that for her. Right or wrong, it does not matter, what matters is that I was expression my emotional body pain about suppression of my own feminine.

    I truly love her by now, 16 years later, she is really beautiful and does impose herself as feminine yet decisive. I hope she will make me wrong on the difficulties women encounter versus men.

    A little à côté: I always feel like my feminine is suppressed while reading or exchanging with some very male energies here, such as Bill (my own confession), sometimes Paul, and others. I am however very much knowing that those are my own perception in regard to my own supressions of feminine. It really feels like when I communicate with someone from another culture, who does not know mine, and where I am the one making all the effort to adapt and translate cultural concepts, here being translating different cultural (feminine) point of views and having to make one sided efforts all along.

    Flash; I dont think it is only your perceptions of the feminine. It is really the conditioning women have had during the centuries of the patriarchal era. I can understand why your emotional body reacted so when you had a daughter even more so if you think about all the past lives we have all had being women in a very suppressed society and the things we have had to do to other women. These are all things we all have to process through to in a way state that we dont agree with them and stop them from taking energy from us. I think its great that your taking a look at this and going deeper because everyones process on this literally affects everyone elses, in a way its all like a big network, if we unplug one by one from it and stand up to our real empowerment then it becomes easier to other women who see the example.

    Thank you for sharing and I dont think your posts was "too serious" funny and serious comments are both very welcome

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    Default Re: Especially for women...

    .

    Great thread....thanks to the OP and all contributors...

    I generally go without a bra unless I'm at work...I breast-fed my daughter for three years and I know that when a lot of women stop breast-feeding their boobs shrink.

    The opposite happened to me and they grew bigger!! And now they're huge lol.

    I am so much more comfortable without a bra and I found the info about the health issues about bras in this thread very informative....cheers.


    On the subject of breast-feeding...


    When my daughter was a tiny baby (she's 26 now)...I was having a pub lunch, in a small lounge, (not in the main bar)...I was feeding her while wearing a baggy top and she was inside the baggy top. Not an inch of flesh was on display.

    The pub manager asked me to stop because it could upset the other customers!!

    So I stood up (baby still sucking away), and asked everyone in the room if me feeding my baby was a problem. Everyone was supportive and said it wasn't a problem. But the pub manager wouldn't have it, got annoyed and told me to leave.

    On my way out I saw that behind the bar was a large calendar with a picture of a topless Samantha Fox on display. I drew the managers attention to the calendar. But they got even more annoyed.

    Talk about double standards....


    That was a long time ago...and I would like to think it would be different now. But you hardly ever see a woman breast-feeding in public. Well I don't anyway.





    .

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    Default Re: Especially for women...

    Agree that it is also for men to be living examples of what they agree with and don't agree with through their actions, this tedx is a good example.
    Cheers to all the Men who live it and all the women who enable their sons (and the men in their lives) to do so.



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    Default Re: Especially for women...

    Quote Posted by Daughter of Time (here)
    Quote Posted by jiminii (here)
    don't need a bra .. not natural ... just take 2 half coconut shells ... and tape them on

    jim
    Jiiminii,

    And I thought you were a serious dude!!!

    Coconut shells and tape would tear the delicate skin off, leading to bleed, infect and leave scars.

    Your very bright mind is not very practical when it comes to this subject.

    I wonder what you would recommend in place of jock straps.

    Anyhow, don't enlighten us on jock straps since this thread is not about that.
    just kidding ... I know it is a problem ... but ... I have no solution... so i just try to say something funny ... maybe it is not funny for a girl but I DON" T see this as a problem in asia .. most asian girls are naturally small can fit in the palm of the hand ... but since all this chemicals in the air and in our food .. I can see where women can get extra large ... but I don't see the beauty in it ... it is probably all just endless PR ... BIG IS BETTER ... no I think natural slim and slender is more natural and more easy to manage ... can probably even play volleyball without a bra ... for me I have same problem .. if I don't have something down there to keep it from flopping all over the place I probably can't play volleyball either ... so how to solve it .????

    make the breast of a women go in instead of out .. (makes the man have to hunt for them) and make the man's spring loaded ... .. stays all the way inside until the demand is needed ....

    what do you think?

    jim
    Last edited by jiminii; 24th June 2013 at 17:17.

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