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Thread: The Vegetarian Myth

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    Default Re: The Vegetarian Myth

    If you don't want to read the whole book this article might be considered the "Reader's Digest" version:

    http://www.motherearthnews.com/natur...tarianism.aspx
    Before you speak, ask yourself, is it kind, is it necessary, is it true, does it improve on the silence?

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    Default Re: The Vegetarian Myth

    Sooo we mass produce cows which eat untold amounts of grains of which only 10 percent of the grain energy is passed on when we slaughter the cow. And vegetarians are causing problems with grains???

    Also you say you give more credit to the YouTube comments on the video then to the video itself.. ( because surely you tube comments on any thing vegetarian related are probably enlightening). But perhaps you can address some of the points that the awesome darian rider brings up and say why they are so rediculous. I found it to be quite the opposite

    Also I might point out that mr riders critique is of inconsistencies specific to the authors medical and other claims and is not in any way a direct or crass attack on non vegetarians. You however replied with a broad attack on vegetarians. Unrelated to the video.

    Your taking one from the page of us self righteous vegans
    Last edited by Abhaya; 15th August 2013 at 03:42.

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    Default Re: The Vegetarian Myth

    Quote Posted by Abhaya (here)
    You however replied with a broad attack on vegetarians.
    Where did I attack vegetarians?? I said they were in denial, hardly an attack.
    Before you speak, ask yourself, is it kind, is it necessary, is it true, does it improve on the silence?

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    Default Re: The Vegetarian Myth

    Anybody serious about expanding themselves spiritually, will not achieve any height with dead meat or lower consciousness within their body, dropping meat and other life forms from within yourself is part of your purification.

    Regards to all, and no I don't eat meat

    roman
    Last edited by ROMANWKT; 15th August 2013 at 06:35.

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    Default Re: The Vegetarian Myth

    Quote Posted by ROMANWKT (here)
    Anybody serious about expanding themselves spiritually, will not achieve any height with dead meat or lower consciousness within their body, dropping meat and other life forms from within yourself is part of your purification.

    Regards to all, and no I don't eat meat

    roman
    No offence my friend, but do you have ANY evidence to support that claim?

    Please note that responding with "some spiritual guru who wrote a book/blog or made a YT video told me so" will not be accepted as a legitimate form of evidence in this instance.

    Interested to see what you come up with here.......enlighten me
    Last edited by Sgt-Bones; 15th August 2013 at 10:00.

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    Default Re: The Vegetarian Myth

    Quote Posted by SGT-BONES (here)
    Quote Posted by ROMANWKT (here)
    Anybody serious about expanding themselves spiritually, will not achieve any height with dead meat or lower consciousness within their body, dropping meat and other life forms from within yourself is part of your purification.

    Regards to all, and no I don't eat meat

    roman
    No offence my friend, but do you have ANY kind of evidence to support that claim?

    Please note that responfing with "some spiritual guru who wrote a book/blog or made a YT video told me so" will not be accepted as a legitimate form of evidence in this instance.

    Interested to see what you come up with here.......enlighten me
    HI bones

    No offence ever taken, I am At work, will give info later

    regards

    roman

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    Default Re: The Vegetarian Myth

    Quote Posted by SGT-BONES (here)
    Quote Posted by ROMANWKT (here)
    Anybody serious about expanding themselves spiritually, will not achieve any height with dead meat or lower consciousness within their body, dropping meat and other life forms from within yourself is part of your purification.

    Regards to all, and no I don't eat meat

    roman
    No offence my friend, but do you have ANY kind of evidence to support that claim?

    Please note that responfing with "some spiritual guru who wrote a book/blog or made a YT video told me so" will not be accepted as a legitimate form of evidence in this instance.

    Interested to see what you come up with here.......enlighten me
    Agree with you there BONES, but wheres the evidence it doesn't?
    Goes both ways doesn't it?
    How about this, everyone eat what makes you feel good and healthy!
    And honestly Alamajo you need to get a grip my friend, saying all vegetarians are in denial is an absurd statement. Think a bit before you post such a statement..
    No one here is saying "All meat eaters hate animals"
    Thread is getting a wee bit off topic isn't it?

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    Default Re: The Vegetarian Myth

    For what it's worth, I've yet to see a vegetarian vs. meat eater thread that didn't eventually devolve into a silly food fight.

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    Default Re: The Vegetarian Myth

    Can't we all just get along?
    "When you've seen beyond yourself, then you may find, peace of mind is waiting there." ~ George Harrison

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    Default Re: The Vegetarian Myth

    Quote Posted by Peace4all (here)
    Agree with you there BONES, but wheres the evidence it doesn't?
    Goes both ways doesn't it?
    Fair comment. Although, the difference here is that I haven't made any claims/statements one way or the other regarding the topic of discussion in this thread.

    I guess I just find it interesting how others have formulated such strong opinions/beliefs... perhaps they would benefit from questioning where those beliefs/opinions are coming from?

    Quote Posted by Peace4all (here)
    How about this, everyone eat what makes you feel good and healthy!
    Sounds like a good plan to me.

    Yeah... I think everyone should just run with that

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    Default Re: The Vegetarian Myth

    Quote Posted by SGT-BONES (here)
    Quote Posted by ROMANWKT (here)
    Anybody serious about expanding themselves spiritually, will not achieve any height with dead meat or lower consciousness within their body, dropping meat and other life forms from within yourself is part of your purification.

    Regards to all, and no I don't eat meat

    roman
    No offence my friend, but do you have ANY kind of evidence to support that claim?

    Please note that responfing with "some spiritual guru who wrote a book/blog or made a YT video told me so" will not be accepted as a legitimate form of evidence in this instance.

    Interested to see what you come up with here.......enlighten me


    'Spirituality' or 'spiritual advancement' is very fragile term as we all know but there's no spiritual advancement that does not include advancement in ethics and deepening of your consciousness .
    If you want to 'advance' in some direction, the presumption and common observation is that you need to walk there .. and to walk there, firstly, you need 'free legs' and 'free hands' ,
    in other words , you need to experience yourself as free being .

    The problem with your question is that it comes from the guts of society that depended on killing each other and animals for centuries ,
    earlier it were religions and their prophets who said 'thou shall not kill' ,
    nowadays , non-violence is considered valid part of every secular law system ( where it concerns human beings , AND some animal cruelty as well as you might noticed ) .
    You can't be a serial killer and treated as 'very spiritual ' at the same time . Though, in your own esteem , you may see yourself as such ..and there are many examples of perverted killers who considered themselves also 'great philosophers' , 'great leaders' and 'great spiritualists' though ,
    I think, no matter their smarts , commonly we do not consider killing act of truth and loving kindness . There may be exceptions to that rule but it's not what the topic is about anyway .

    The society that invented this question , is virtually dependant on killing each other ..and their animals and eating them fresh , and soon after they've been slaughtered , what you eat is corpses , and you call it meat ( and buy it in those nicely pre-packed wraps that remind you the least of the origin of what you eat ).

    There are millennia old biological reasons why you feel more like an animal who craves the flash and blood of other animals to survive . Your human ancestors had to be part of the food chain,
    they once had to defend themselves in wild nature and aggravated their aggression by endless victories over less intelligent but more barbaric animal species by consuming the attacker . Their bodies learned to digest the strangers proteins, enzymes , learned his tactics from his very DNA .
    So long as the other creature became inevitable part of their own blood and tactics, on their own evolution level and thus they won.

    What was once perhaps, in dark ages of human civilisation a necessity .. turned out to continue as bad habit, show of muscles , cruel enjoyment .

    The symbiosis went so far that some of our modern medicine teaches that you're not able to synthesise your own proteins anymore . Actually, it's not true , you pretty are and were more unless and until, you were fed by tons of animal proteins that damaged many of your organ functions to that level that they're not self sufficient anymore .

    However .. the process is reversible to a great deal and worth the trial . There's no one outside of you who can offer you proof validity of that experience other than your own body and mind .

    Meat eating , especially the way as 'practised ' today, an mass , way beyond what is natural and necessary for healthy functioning, exerts great deal of biological pressure on your metabolism, each time you do that .
    Unlike with vegetables , you force your pancreas, liver, intestines and so forth, to work on 200% , produce number times more enzymes than is natural for them,
    exercise them to become bigger and stronger ..well till they collapse ..
    your hormonal system is screaming for more enhancement side with this,
    but this is NOT AN EVOLUTION !

    This is generation slow degeneration of your biological system that gives you some immediate advantages in form of increased functions , strenght and perhaps even thinking power but it's the way how you allow your animal prey win over you in very discrete way and turn you to their image.

    You can put addiction to violence, obsessive behaviors , many uncontrollable patterns of human physiognomy and pathology , dysfunctional metabolism and tons of civilisation disease on one side ..where you share yourself with the corpses of your animal 'brothers n sisters' .

    You call that free will but you aren't free unless you are able to say NO to killing, NO to being part of that particular food chain, NO to taking in their bio-codes, their bacteria , viruses and so and so forth. Their hormones, their enzymes , their metabolic residues shaping you according to their pattern .


    Their fears of being a sheeple, being bred for meat, food waiting to be slaughtered .

    Being fed enzymes to look like mountain of meat to be the best stale mate .



    If you want to be free .. be free . If you feel that it is compulsory to be a part of the well bred stock, it's your free choice as well .


    Last edited by Agape; 15th August 2013 at 10:03.

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    Default Re: The Vegetarian Myth

    Beautifully and eloquently put, Agape. In answer to your question SGT BONES I would suggest the evidence is self evident. In other words, if you make the change and go down this path the claims that ROMANWKT makes will become apparant to you personally.

    Experiential evidence will always trump data on a page no matter how genuine the research.
    Last edited by Akasha; 15th August 2013 at 10:36.

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    Default Re: The Vegetarian Myth

    Quote Posted by Wind (here)
    Can't we all just get along?
    Are you including the animals in that question? I definitely see them within the "we". Bearing that in mind does "get along" include eating each another?

    But in answer to how I think you intended the question to be perceived, speaking for myself, yes.

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    Default Re: The Vegetarian Myth

    Quote Posted by Agape (here)
    Quote Posted by SGT-BONES (here)
    Quote Posted by ROMANWKT (here)
    Anybody serious about expanding themselves spiritually, will not achieve any height with dead meat or lower consciousness within their body, dropping meat and other life forms from within yourself is part of your purification.

    Regards to all, and no I don't eat meat

    roman
    No offence my friend, but do you have ANY kind of evidence to support that claim?

    Please note that responfing with "some spiritual guru who wrote a book/blog or made a YT video told me so" will not be accepted as a legitimate form of evidence in this instance.

    Interested to see what you come up with here.......enlighten me


    'Spirituality' or 'spiritual advancement' is very fragile term as we all know but there's no spiritual advancement that does not include advancement in ethics and deepening of your consciousness .
    If you want to 'advance' in some direction, the presumption and common observation is that you need to walk there .. and to walk there, firstly, you need 'free legs' and 'free hands' ,
    in other words , you need to experience yourself as free being .

    The problem with your question is that it comes from the guts of society that depended on killing each other and animals for centuries ,
    earlier it were religions and their prophets who said 'thou shall not kill' ,
    nowadays , non-violence is considered valid part of every secular law system ( where it concerns human beings , AND some animal cruelty as well as you might noticed ) .
    You can't be a serial killer and treated as 'very spiritual ' at the same time . Though, in your own esteem , you may see yourself as such ..and there are many examples of perverted killers who considered themselves also 'great philosophers' , 'great leaders' and 'great spiritualists' though ,
    I think, no matter their smarts , commonly we do not consider killing act of truth and loving kindness . There may be exceptions to that rule but it's not what the topic is about anyway .

    The society that invented this question , is virtually dependant on killing each other ..and their animals and eating them fresh , and soon after they've been slaughtered , what you eat is corpses , and you call it meat ( and buy it in those nicely pre-packed wraps that remind you the least of the origin of what you eat ).

    There are millennia old biological reasons why you feel more like an animal who craves the flash and blood of other animals to survive . Your human ancestors had to be part of the food chain,
    they once had to defend themselves in wild nature and aggravated their aggression by endless victories over less intelligent but more barbaric animal species by consuming the attacker . Their bodies learned to digest the strangers proteins, enzymes , learned his tactics from his very DNA .
    So long as the other creature became inevitable part of their own blood and tactics, on their own evolution level and thus they won.

    What was once perhaps, in dark ages of human civilisation a necessity .. turned out to continue as bad habit, show of muscles , cruel enjoyment .

    The symbiosis went so far that some of our modern medicine teaches that you're not able to synthesise your own proteins anymore . Actually, it's not true , you pretty are and were more unless and until, you were fed by tons of animal proteins that damaged many of your organ functions to that level that they're not self sufficient anymore .

    However .. the process is reversible to a great deal and worth the trial . There's no one outside of you who can offer you proof validity of that experience other than your own body and mind .

    Meat eating , especially the way as 'practised ' today, an mass , way beyond what is natural and necessary for healthy functioning, exerts great deal of biological pressure on your metabolism, each time you do that .
    Unlike with vegetables , you force your pancreas, liver, intestines and so forth, to work on 200% , produce number times more enzymes than is natural for them,
    exercise them to become bigger and stronger ..well till they collapse ..
    your hormonal system is screaming for more enhancement side with this,
    but this is NOT AN EVOLUTION !

    This is generation slow degeneration of your biological system that gives you some immediate advantages in form of increased functions , strenght and perhaps even thinking power but it's the way how you allow your animal prey win over you in very discrete way and turn you to their image.

    You can put addiction to violence, obsessive behaviors , many uncontrollable patterns of human physiognomy and pathology , dysfunctional metabolism and tons of civilisation disease on one side ..where you share yourself with the corpses of your animal 'brothers n sisters' .

    You call that free will but you aren't free unless you are able to say NO to killing, NO to being part of that particular food chain, NO to taking in their bio-codes, their bacteria , viruses and so and so forth. Their hormones, their enzymes , their metabolic residues shaping you according to their pattern .


    Their fears of being a sheeple, being bred for meat, food waiting to be slaughtered .

    Being fed enzymes to look like mountain of meat to be the best stale mate .



    If you want to be free .. be free . If you feel that it is compulsory to be a part of the well bred stock, it's your free choice as well .


    Some interesting comments there, although, it's difficult to tell just how much was based on fact and how much was based on your own programmed/conditioned understanding/knowledge of the topic at hand.

    Just like everyone else I'm sure you've formulated your "belief/s" based on the knowledge and experience gained whilst travelling your own path/s here... and that's about all any of us can really do.

    At the very least it is clear you've put a lot of thought into this subject matter, and why not, what we choose to put into our bodies is pretty important.

    Personally, I think everybody should just do whatever they think is right for them.... life is a journey and ALL experiences are valid/purposeful.

    At the end of the day, I don't think there are necessarily any "right" or "wrong" answers to the questions being debated on this thread.

    We each must make our own choices and more importantly be prepared to take responsibility for them (when the time comes).

    Personal accountability is the key here... so it really is in our best interest to choose wisely.
    Last edited by Sgt-Bones; 15th August 2013 at 11:06.

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    Default Re: The Vegetarian Myth

    Quote Posted by SGT-BONES
    .... life is a journey and ALL experiences are valid/purposeful.
    If I killed you the experience might be "valid/purposeful" to me in the sense that I would hopefully learn remorse etc... but you'd still be dead!

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    Default Re: The Vegetarian Myth

    Quote Posted by Akasha (here)
    Quote Posted by Wind (here)
    Can't we all just get along?
    Are you including the animals in that question? I definitely see them within the "we". Bearing that in mind does "get along" include eating each another?

    But in answer to how I think you intended the question to be perceived, speaking for myself, yes.
    We all are part of the same creation, no doub about it. Even rocks are made by intelligent design.

    In this particular case I just meant the humans here on Avalon as you might know. Debating might be entertaining for a while, but ultimately it doesn't lead to anywhere. Personally I care about animals a lot and that's why I'm mostly a vegetarian. I too feel a lot better without meat, it's just a matter of choice. I just feel that it's not my business to cricize others for their choices. I criticize and affect the system by my own individual choices.
    "When you've seen beyond yourself, then you may find, peace of mind is waiting there." ~ George Harrison

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    Default Re: The Vegetarian Myth

    Quote Posted by ROMANWKT (here)
    Anybody serious about expanding themselves spiritually, will not achieve any height with dead meat or lower consciousness within their body, dropping meat and other life forms from within yourself is part of your purification.
    Plants are life forms -- are you a fruitarian?
    Before you speak, ask yourself, is it kind, is it necessary, is it true, does it improve on the silence?

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    Default Re: The Vegetarian Myth

    Quote Posted by SGT-BONES (here)

    Some interesting comments there, although, it's difficult to tell just how much was based on fact and how much was based on your own programmed/conditioned understanding of the topic at hand.

    Just like everyone else I'm sure you've formulated your "belief/s" based on the knowledge and experience gained whilst travelling your own path/s here... and that's about all any of us can really do.

    At the very least it is clear you've put a lot of thought into this subject matter, and why not, what we choose to put into our bodies is pretty important.

    Personally, I think everybody should just do whatever they think is right for them.... life is a journey and ALL experiences are valid/purposeful.

    At the end of the day, I don't think there are necessarily any "right" or "wrong" answers to the questions being debated on this thread.

    We each must make our own choices and more importantly be prepared to take responsibility for them (when the time comes).

    Personal accountability is the key here... so it really is in our best interest to choose wisely.

    Wish I grow a beard soon.. ( it's improbable and i don't really wish that being fe-male entity ) so I could also nod my head 3 times now and say 'you're right Son' ,
    it really does not make much difference .

    The intriguing thing in your post , is question posed without real quest .. which inevitably leads you around to the same place where you came from , mentally,

    i.e. not being able to follow logic of explanation and putting it all down to some level of obsession with what we 'put to mouth'

    and doubting my thinking process is in fact programmed /copied from somewhere /someone else ?


    Allow me to laugh but understanding comes with practise


    P.S. It's a real problem . To communicate to people who like you, are basically pre-programmed, base their opinions on believes ( call it scholarly knowledge in more advanced cases ) and presume that everyone is the same .

    I wonder, if you ever , i mean ever enjoy the experience of your intelligence exploring, experimenting with the grounds of life , mind and matter , arriving at conclusions ( no matter how inconclusive they are ),

    if you ever enjoy being you, rather than good copy of someones else's findings ?


    Can you answer that question to Your Self ?



    Last edited by Agape; 15th August 2013 at 11:20.

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    Default Re: The Vegetarian Myth

    Quote Posted by ROMANWKT (here)
    Anybody serious about expanding themselves spiritually, will not achieve any height with dead meat or lower consciousness within their body, dropping meat and other life forms from within yourself is part of your purification.

    Regards to all, and no I don't eat meat

    roman
    I understand where you're coming from.

    But do you care if the production of those plants is destroying the planet?

    ¤=[Post Update]=¤

    Quote Posted by Peace4all (here)
    alamojo, are you saying vegetarians consume more grains then people who eat meat?
    Of course not -- please don't turn this into an "us versus them" thing. Please re-read my very short post, it was very clear.
    Before you speak, ask yourself, is it kind, is it necessary, is it true, does it improve on the silence?

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    Default Re: The Vegetarian Myth

    Quote Posted by Peace4all (here)
    And honestly Alamajo you need to get a grip my friend, saying all vegetarians are in denial is an absurd statement. Think a bit before you post such a statement..
    No one here is saying "All meat eaters hate animals"
    Thread is getting a wee bit off topic isn't it?
    I never said "ALL". The fact that not a single vegetarian has commented on grain agriculture supports my comment on them being in denial.

    ¤=[Post Update]=¤

    Quote Posted by Fred Steeves (here)
    For what it's worth, I've yet to see a vegetarian vs. meat eater thread that didn't eventually devolve into a silly food fight.
    It's sad -- I found the book so very interesting and not a single vegetarian here will read it or discuss it. :-(
    Before you speak, ask yourself, is it kind, is it necessary, is it true, does it improve on the silence?

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