Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

[Bill Ryan]

Posted by novus (here)
Bill,

Many thanks for this thread. This is the most intelligent, most literate, Scientology and related studies discussion, I have encountered on the internet. I like your open minded approach and the way you don't try to hog tie, or force the reader into a belief. You also leave room for the reader to cognate and contribute to the discussion.

I haven't done anything in Scientology since about 1985. My experiences with Scientology were positive. I completed the level of OT-3. It was a nice place to perch, and that's were I have been every since.

I do want to post some comments and questions on this thread, and will do so, once I assimilate the links and all. Some of the personalities you've mentioned on this thread and on the provided links, such as, Jim Humble, Peter Green, and others, I have known in the past.

I look forward to commenting soon.

Thank you -- and Welcome.

I think you may find yourself at home here at Avalon. The members are pretty articulate, experienced, and well-informed. Debate is usually intelligent and well-referenced. There's a sincere alliance in questing to understand whatever the truth is (in many areas).

There's also a high tolerance for different views and experiences (and some members have experienced some very weird things indeed!) -- as long as the views are sincerely expressed. Once or twice, members can get a little over-excited, but that's because they really care, and they're all very much united in that as well.

I know what you mean about OT 3 being a good place to 'perch', and watch the world from. One of my closest friends is an inactive scientologist whose last level was OT 3. He's in wonderful shape, and hasn't done (or needed to do) anything more in the subject for 20 years. It's sometimes when the Church levels of OT 5 and 7 are opened up that the real tangle can start.

[webyourstuff]

Posted by jiminii (here)

At Flag service org FSO i got so frustrated because no one wanted to do the game ... or do only what they have to ,,, like send letters out ,... suddenly the being in me ran all these seems like little gold balls in a circle around the head ... like bip bip bip bip bip ,.. and all the GI and people coming into the org stopped ,.. I thought oh my god ,.. I must have undone all of my postulates .... suddenly they were telling everyone ... this is an emergency .... we have to get letters out ... and they were pulling all the files from central files out giving them to everyone and everyone started to write letters ... I was practically laughing in hysteria inside me ,,, and thought "i guess this is one way to get them to write letters " .. then i put back in my postulates and the statistics went back up again ,,

but this does prove one thing we are creating it all ..
Jim

"This is an emergency" is a tool they used. It effectively got people working working working while bypassing the person's self determinism and creativity. In other words, turned people into slaves.

'Nough said.

[webyourstuff]

Posted by kirolak (here)
Do you remember what was said about the wrong vs right way to operate the chakras? I'd be grateful if you could just say a few words about it!

Me too. :-)

[novus]

Bill,

I have a question. Forgive me it's already been answered elsewhere?

As mentioned before, I completed Scientology OT-3. I am quite satisfied with the results. However, I have also made gains in the none Advanced Levels to. Most worthy of mention, was Scientology Ethics handling. Which is something done as a precursor (if needed) to actual Scientology auditing.

My question is, does Rons Org, or, the Free Zone, have something similar to Scientology Ethics handling?

[Bill Ryan]

Posted by novus (here)
Bill,

I have a question. Forgive me it's already been answered elsewhere?

As mentioned before, I completed Scientology OT-3. I am quite satisfied with the results. However, I have also made gains in the none Advanced Levels to. Most worthy of mention, was Scientology Ethics handling. Which is something done as a precursor (if needed) to actual Scientology auditing.

My question is, does Rons Org, or, the Free Zone, have something similar to Scientology Ethics handling?

The Free Zone (as opposed to Ron's Org) sometimes tends to be a little lax on Ethics -- still wary, to some degree, about of how the subject has been significantly abused in the Church in recent years.

In Ron's Org, Ethics is correctly judged as being a cornerstone. Mary Freeman, in Coeur d'Alene, Idaho, has become famous for her Ethics Program (sometimes called the Integrity Program, or even simply "Mary's Ethics") which has been reported to have transformed many lives. (Mary is an 'old-timer' who knew LRH personally before she left the Church in the 80s.)

http://highintegrityliving.com

'Captain' Bill Robertson ('CBR') also stressed the correct application of Ethics. His "Applying Conditions in Life" seminar (which I attended in 1990, and later transcribed personally) is here:

http://projectavalon.net/Improving_C...minar_1990.pdf

[webyourstuff]

Posted by rmauersr (here)

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
------

A little more in answer to seko above:

• One can also do sessions with a distant auditor over Skype. (The meter can be with either person.)
• When solo auditing, unless one is very experienced or highly qualified, one does need guidance on what to audit (i.e. what question-and-answer processes to 'run') from someone who is qualified and experienced and who understands what you're wanting to address.

Does anyone know what the meter is responding to? Resistance, temperature, pulse rate, or something else more metaphysical?

Is the power source batteries?

Having spent some time in analog circuit design, I am curious.

There is measurable electrical energy in the vicinity of the being and/ or body. That's what is being read by the meter. The energy is the charge built up by some incident the person is not experiencing.

Example: Person fell off horse as child. Couldn't experience it fully, so built up charge. Later, when asked on a meter about horses, this charge is pulled out of the space around him, and impinges on the body. This causes the meter to read.

[jiminii]

Posted by jiminii
all of this was done in the future ... and we were sent to this time ...

OK. Thank you for the info. Glad our comm cycle is producing TA and cogs.

I read your original post. I have a limited reality on future track returnees. But I agree that LRH set up miscavage and the taken over church intentionally.
Best info I have is that LRH went to/is at Galactic Central to warn of implanter plans.
Are there others like you from the future to assist with your mission? It can't be just you.

this is sent to me by the OT 33 on course at ron's org ... verifying what I said,

it only allowed me to look better and I saw what happened and why he didn't pick David Miscavige ... he was heavily drugged and from out of body he became aware of David miscavige and gave him the instructions and all the rest to divert the church away from the enemy ... they found 12 needle marks in him ... so do you think he should trust those who did this to him?

it is a viewpoint someone can look at and check if this is right or not

jim

[jiminii]

Posted by jiminii (here)

Posted by jiminii
all of this was done in the future ... and we were sent to this time ...

OK. Thank you for the info. Glad our comm cycle is producing TA and cogs.

I read your original post. I have a limited reality on future track returnees. But I agree that LRH set up miscavage and the taken over church intentionally.
Best info I have is that LRH went to/is at Galactic Central to warn of implanter plans.
Are there others like you from the future to assist with your mission? It can't be just you.

this is sent to me by the OT 33 on course at ron's org ... verifying what I said,

it only allowed me to look better and I saw what happened and why he didn't pick David Miscavige ... he was heavily drugged and from out of body he became aware of David miscavige and gave him the instructions and all the rest to divert the church away from the enemy ... they found 12 needle marks in him ... so do you think he should trust those who did this to him?

it is a viewpoint someone can look at and check if this is right or not

jim

and yes more have been sent ... I have found a natural clear on this website ... and we sorted it out and he is Native State ... this means he is the original state a spirit being is before he gets messed up in this universe .. means he came right out of the static like me and inelia

this is just more proof to me ...

of course you can go looking anywhere you like ...

but understand this ... the prophecy of Buddha ... said it would be Meitreya (in sanscript) or Metteyya (in pali) that will come 2500 years after Buddhs's death .., and no one gets ...

metteyya IS the spirit of Buddha

mettayya IS the spirit of LRH

Metteyya IS the spirit of me

we do not have the same personalities or the same timeline ... we are separate viewpoints of the same spirit

jim

[CdnSirian]

" we are separate viewpoints of the same spirit" Does that not apply to us all? Whatever you call It?

[novus]

I agree that every worthwhile spiritual betterment movement, has been infiltrated to weaken it.. Your example of Christianity being infiltrated is spot on. What is currently being passed off as, "Christianity" is NOT what it was originally. You have to follow something back to it's origin (before it was infiltrated) to know what it was all about. For this reason, I agree with Bill Ryan that, earlier Scientology books and materials might be more useful than the, "modern" ones?

[jiminii]

Posted by CdnSirian (here)
" we are separate viewpoints of the same spirit" Does that not apply to us all? Whatever you call It?

each person would have to find the spirit they are .... like Inelis is a viewpoint of gaia
but I think she also said she has other timelines
means she has other viewpoints created from the same spirit

so yes .. this is how I see it

jim

also I look at David Miscavige ... some say he acts like a spoiled child

what I see is he can't get the production he wants ,.. and tries to force it
this is also a problem of being newly made out of the static from the future .. we have no experience .. even though he has been trained from the future ... he doesn't get the stats I got by practicing how to use my spiritual abilities ,.. I could do it by intention and holding the intention and bouncing all the counter intention off my space ,, and the stats went exactly as I wrote it to LRH

but I also looked at this. if I would have stayed there maybe i could have changed it with all that infiltration ,.. but it is rough .. and they can knock out my anchor points ,.. by hitting on my poor hearing and other body outpoints ... (anchor points are the points a spirit sets up around him that puts his space out there to make something happen in the MEST matter energy space and time universe) .. which was really an outpoint .. wasn't it?... they can't tell anyone what I do ,. they can't validate me except by inviting me to the CMO office and more or less acknowledging me (CMO is commadore's messenger Org) ..and I think only LRH knew ... I don't think CMO knew ... they only relay the message .. at the same time the boss I work under is trying to get me out of the sea org because of my poor hearing .. rather than change my post (job) .. and the staff was on staff freeze .. no one could change posts ,... so it is almost an impossible situation .. for me. I could take it ,. but not with my Japanese wife up at INT (international Org) sending me a note that she (learned how to lie on the meter) ... and she hadn't been able to get through ONE course since she has been there because they have NO IDEA on how to handle a japanese .. that doesn't have future tense in the language and doesn't have prepositions .. but has postpositions .. the word that modifies comes after the word it modifies in japanese ,, and doesn't have adverbial or adjective phrases ,. so I had to get out to go get her before they ruin her saying "WE KNOW BEST " .. and they DON'T ...

so their own rules can also stop them

jim

[webyourstuff]

Posted by Paul (here)
Personally my own intuitions, though quite less well formed by genius, study or experiment than the giants of the late 1800's, tend more toward the inclusion of some sort of aether, and toward a local, real view, than that supported by present day "accepted" physics. The trick, that I have in no way mastered yet, is explaining away the results of various Bell inequality and Hardy-Jordan experiments, which purport to demonstrate the essential validity of a non-real, non-local quantum mechanics (Bohr's Copenhagen Interpretation.)

I had an aha moment once which may or may not be related to this. I was watching a James Randi video. In case this name is not familiar to you, he's the guy who offers a million dollars to anyone who can actually demonstrate any sort of psychic phenomenon. He wants to prove it is all lies. Many have tried, none (to date) have succeeded.

Anyway, I was watching one of his videos, and I notice something. Randi controls the space! The psychic is NOT in normal universe space. He is in Randi's space. In Randi's space, psychic phenomenon doesn't work. Because he has so determined. To win this prize, one would have to figure out how to maintain their own space while working with him.

[webyourstuff]

Posted by jiminii (here)

also I look at David Miscavige ... some say he acts like a spoiled child

what I see is he can't get the production he wants ,.. and tries to force it
this is also a problem of being newly made out of the static from the future .. we have no experience .. even though he has been trained from the future ... he doesn't get the stats I got by practicing how to use my spiritual abilities ,.. I could do it by intention and holding the intention and bouncing all the counter intention off my space ,, and the stats went exactly as I wrote it to LRH

but I also looked at this. if I would have stayed there maybe i could have changed it with all that infiltration ,.. but it is rough .. and they can knock out my anchor points ,.. by hitting on my poor hearing and other body outpoints ... (anchor points are the points a spirit sets up around him that puts his space out there to make something happen in the MEST matter energy space and time universe) .. which was really an outpoint .. wasn't it?... they can't tell anyone what I do ,. they can't validate me except by inviting me to the CMO office and more or less acknowledging me (CMO is commadore's messenger Org) ..and I think only LRH knew ... I don't think CMO knew ... they only relay the message .. at the same time the boss I work under is trying to get me out of the sea org because of my poor hearing .. rather than change my post (job) .. and the staff was on staff freeze .. no one could change posts ,... so it is almost an impossible situation .. for me. I could take it ,. but not with my Japanese wife up at INT (international Org) sending me a note that she (learned how to lie on the meter) ... and she hadn't been able to get through ONE course since she has been there because they have NO IDEA on how to handle a japanese .. that doesn't have future tense in the language and doesn't have prepositions .. but has postpositions .. the word that modifies comes after the word it modifies in japanese ,, and doesn't have adverbial or adjective phrases ,. so I had to get out to go get her before they ruin her saying "WE KNOW BEST " .. and they DON'T ...

so their own rules can also stop them

jim

So... Jim... did you get your wife out???? Or did she chose to stay there?

[webyourstuff]

Posted by bram (here)

Now, if we accept that we have engrams from past lives, this leads to a further two possibilities: either:

(a) that we have a ‘soul’ which continues in this body from life to life, taking with it the results of actions performed in previous lives which may be called karma, including engrams, further adding to this karma by our actions in our current life, or
(b) that our engrams are passed to us genetically by our parents in cellular form in the zygote. Given what we now know about genetics, and cellular awareness, this is also very plausible. However, it means we will inherit engrams from both parents, and they will have inherited engrams from our 4 grandparents, who will have inherited engrams from our 8 great-grandparents and so on. Therefore, taking the average age for giving birth at 25, a new born baby now will inherit engrams from some 16 people in the last 100 years alone. We will also share engrams with thousands of our relatives- a good reason to avoid interbreeding!! Therefore either (i) our engram load is increasing continuously and has done so for thousands (millions?) of years, placing us in possession of millions of unresolved engrams, or (ii) engrams have a finite life, and tend to fade with the passage of time.


Love, bram

Both. You can audit engrams from the theta line (past lives) and you can audit engrams from the genetic line.

My understanding is auditing genetic engrams is less important unless the being is stuck in one. I think I ran one (maybe two) genetic engrams in all my auditing. You don't run ALL the theta-line engrams either. That would take forever. Just enough to stably move the being out of his case.

Basically, there is ONE engram (called basic-basic) that you need to get. You spoon off enough charge to view basic-basic. Then erase that, then you are done.

[Hervé]

Actually...

... there are 3 lines which can be audited:

• the protoplasmic/biological line
• the interface/mind/body intelligence/genetic entity line
• the theta/spirit line

Of these three lines, the spirit/theta line is the one that is "boss," that is, it is the one that can handle the other two to align with itself in health or illness.



This is stated otherwise as "Consideration is the highest capability of life, taking rank over the mechanics of MEST: Matter, Energy, Space and Time."

[jiminii]

Posted by webyourstuff (here)

Posted by jiminii (here)

also I look at David Miscavige ... some say he acts like a spoiled child

what I see is he can't get the production he wants ,.. and tries to force it
this is also a problem of being newly made out of the static from the future .. we have no experience .. even though he has been trained from the future ... he doesn't get the stats I got by practicing how to use my spiritual abilities ,.. I could do it by intention and holding the intention and bouncing all the counter intention off my space ,, and the stats went exactly as I wrote it to LRH

but I also looked at this. if I would have stayed there maybe i could have changed it with all that infiltration ,.. but it is rough .. and they can knock out my anchor points ,.. by hitting on my poor hearing and other body outpoints ... (anchor points are the points a spirit sets up around him that puts his space out there to make something happen in the MEST matter energy space and time universe) .. which was really an outpoint .. wasn't it?... they can't tell anyone what I do ,. they can't validate me except by inviting me to the CMO office and more or less acknowledging me (CMO is commadore's messenger Org) ..and I think only LRH knew ... I don't think CMO knew ... they only relay the message .. at the same time the boss I work under is trying to get me out of the sea org because of my poor hearing .. rather than change my post (job) .. and the staff was on staff freeze .. no one could change posts ,... so it is almost an impossible situation .. for me. I could take it ,. but not with my Japanese wife up at INT (international Org) sending me a note that she (learned how to lie on the meter) ... and she hadn't been able to get through ONE course since she has been there because they have NO IDEA on how to handle a japanese .. that doesn't have future tense in the language and doesn't have prepositions .. but has postpositions .. the word that modifies comes after the word it modifies in japanese ,, and doesn't have adverbial or adjective phrases ,. so I had to get out to go get her before they ruin her saying "WE KNOW BEST " .. and they DON'T ...

so their own rules can also stop them

jim

So... Jim... did you get your wife out???? Or did she chose to stay there?

I found SOCO INT .. NOW IS CALLED ABLE .. SOCO is social coordination international ... changed name to ABLE
I got her transfered to SOCO INT ... and then this Sue Embeck OT 5 was trying to get her to go to open up an org in Japan ,. she had a japanese husband
she can't speak japanese and he can't speak english ... I tell her what I can do with STATS and she thinks I am nuts ... even if I prove it 4 times they will think you are nuts if you say it ... the Public Officer at SOCO was mad at me because when I transfered her it was on an agreement that we would be sent to do a mission in japan and she was getting his stats up and so he was constantly 3rd partying me to Sue Embeck (sue embeck told me) .. and my japanese wife was changed from SOCO INT to work with sue on her business before she goes to japan ... she comes and gets my wife and moves her to her house and doesn't let me see her ,... she just steals the wife ...

she thinks this is ok

jim

[jiminii]

Posted by jiminii (here)

Posted by webyourstuff (here)

Posted by jiminii (here)

also I look at David Miscavige ... some say he acts like a spoiled child

what I see is he can't get the production he wants ,.. and tries to force it
this is also a problem of being newly made out of the static from the future .. we have no experience .. even though he has been trained from the future ... he doesn't get the stats I got by practicing how to use my spiritual abilities ,.. I could do it by intention and holding the intention and bouncing all the counter intention off my space ,, and the stats went exactly as I wrote it to LRH

but I also looked at this. if I would have stayed there maybe i could have changed it with all that infiltration ,.. but it is rough .. and they can knock out my anchor points ,.. by hitting on my poor hearing and other body outpoints ... (anchor points are the points a spirit sets up around him that puts his space out there to make something happen in the MEST matter energy space and time universe) .. which was really an outpoint .. wasn't it?... they can't tell anyone what I do ,. they can't validate me except by inviting me to the CMO office and more or less acknowledging me (CMO is commadore's messenger Org) ..and I think only LRH knew ... I don't think CMO knew ... they only relay the message .. at the same time the boss I work under is trying to get me out of the sea org because of my poor hearing .. rather than change my post (job) .. and the staff was on staff freeze .. no one could change posts ,... so it is almost an impossible situation .. for me. I could take it ,. but not with my Japanese wife up at INT (international Org) sending me a note that she (learned how to lie on the meter) ... and she hadn't been able to get through ONE course since she has been there because they have NO IDEA on how to handle a japanese .. that doesn't have future tense in the language and doesn't have prepositions .. but has postpositions .. the word that modifies comes after the word it modifies in japanese ,, and doesn't have adverbial or adjective phrases ,. so I had to get out to go get her before they ruin her saying "WE KNOW BEST " .. and they DON'T ...

so their own rules can also stop them

jim

So... Jim... did you get your wife out???? Or did she chose to stay there?

I found SOCO INT .. NOW IS CALLED ABLE .. SOCO is social coordination international ... changed name to ABLE
I got her transfered to SOCO INT ... and then this Sue Embeck OT 5 was trying to get her to go to open up an org in Japan ,. she had a japanese husband
she can't speak japanese and he can't speak english ... I tell her what I can do with STATS and she thinks I am nuts ... even if I prove it 4 times they will think you are nuts if you say it ... the Public Officer at SOCO was mad at me because when I transfered her it was on an agreement that we would be sent to do a mission in japan and she was getting his stats up and so he was constantly 3rd partying me to Sue Embeck (sue embeck told me) .. and my japanese wife was changed from SOCO INT to work with sue on her business before she goes to japan ... she comes and gets my wife and moves her to her house and doesn't let me see her ,... she just steals the wife ...

she thinks this is ok

jim

sue embeck was deliberately auditing out the marriage and 3rd partying me to her ... to be able to steal her ... so we were for the first time getting in arguments constantly .. and i knew it was coming from sue .. but my wife would never tell me what sue was telling her.

they wanted people to join the ship project .. the OT ship that will open up OT 8 ... so I joined ... and got to FSO again ... and same thing happens .. someone will run me out because of the hearing problems

jim

[jiminii]

I am thinking I could get more results in my next life ... if I mock up wings in the womb of my mother .. then people will definitely listen to me ,.. they won't know where the wings came from ,.. and they would believe anything I say ..
hahahaha

there is only one problem with this ... someone might get jealous and shoot me out of the sky ...


jim

[johnf]

Posted by jiminii (here)
I am thinking I could get more results in my next life ... if I mock up wings in the womb of my mother .. then people will definitely listen to me ,.. they won't know where the wings came from ,.. and they would believe anything I say ..
hahahaha

there is only one problem with this ... someone might get jealous and shoot me out of the sky ...


jim

Oh, dude you're right about that, you don't wanna grow wings.
Even if they don't shoot you the message will get garbled.
Or you'll get dissected or something.
There's kind of a metaphor here for not appearing to be too different.
Look what happened to the son of god, lol.

[johnf]

I have a question concerning the works of L. Kin. (again with the L!)

Has anyone here studied these, or know anyone who has studied these
and gotten themselves or others through these levels?

http://www.freezoneearth.org/lkin/