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Thread: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

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    Default Re: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by WEAREONE (here)
    It leaves me thinking if this is true, how can someone make such statements and have gained such knowledge and not be able to turn around and share the information in a clear manner that would allow the reader to better decipher message.
    My own answer to this same question is this:

    1) Someone new to this planet (or to a human body) might have a really naive, 'Noble Savage' kind of approach to communicating. If we regard Jim as an ET, for instance, he might find himself really bewildered about how to communicate effectively with Earthlings. And he certainly would be bewildered by a complex structure like an internet forum.

    2) The following is a situation I've encountered before. Someone can be really awake, aware, selfless, inspired -- and yet still be, for instance, dyslexic. That's partly (or maybe completely) 'hard-wired', and is not changed very much by spiritual development. You can do yoga for 50 years -- and it will not improve one's spelling or sentence construction. (A loose analogy, but you may get the point!)
    yes it is much easier for me to talk in electronics with electronics people and tech than talk in this social system people use . I understand what they are saying ... just don't understand how to use those kinds of words to answer them back

    jim

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    Default Re: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

    Quote Posted by Kano (here)
    Perhaps this has been asked, so please excuse the redundancy if so, but why does a Scientologist need someone to help them think (The auditing process. The term "auditing" still kills me.) or progress in their own lives? Isn't that like buying a self help book written by someone else? Do you see the irony? Isn't the purest path to enlightenment walked alone?
    Yes -- I fully understand. This is verbatim from one of CBR's (Bill Rpbertson's) major briefings (The name commonly given to it is Admin Briefing One).

    There is some jargon there (this was not a public lecture), but what he's saying is that eventually you have to erase all the emotional charge you might have accumulated through being dependent on someone else to assist you in your personal development. So your point is well taken, and agreed with.

    So anyway, what we are doing here is removing the tendency for the guy to go into a game and contract, because that's what makes a case. So you might say, that we are in the business of running ourselves out of business. If we audit everybody until they have this understanding at OT 40, there won't be any more business for auditors. Well, that is meaning that you have to take a bigger responsibility than just running yourself as being in the game of being an auditor.

    You see what I mean? You have to get out of that game as well, you see? And want a new game that's totally expanding. And I tell you something else: that Scientology ITSELF can be considered a game. The auditing part and so on. And Ron always said, on a tape or several times, he said that "in the end you will have to run out your track of Scientology auditing as well". Because it is that degree other-determined and is that degree of via through the MEST universe. You know you had to use a meter and you had sit in a room and the guy had to give you the time to be there and all that, and thus it's a bit...- even though you WANTED to do it, and even though you came WILLINGLY to do it – it still is a bit of a via and it's a bit other-determined, you see? So you DO. There is a point in the Super Static Rundown where – it's one of those little points in there – where you run out your track of auditing.

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    Default Re: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

    It is true that outsiders CLAIM that as the highest most secret of teachings...I am sharing a perspective in hopes you can clear it up (especially whilst people are discussing the details in the LRH thread, as if it is something to be discussed as a piece of true history).

    I don't disbelieve anything, just looking for clarity, sharing a view from the outside in hopes of being enlightened. I would appreciate anyone familiar's take on that particular teaching.

    Is it ramblings taken out of context?

    Is it Hubbard's "truth" once he was completely "clear"?

    Is there any divine or ET inspiration?

    Is there "levels", stepped teachings, to Hubbard's work? Or is that complete myth/bastardization?

    I have shared with you the info I was able to find--which is kind of the mainstream view, kindly share your interpretation/data? Thanks


    ADDED:

    I guess what gets me is this:

    Quote Thousands of people have reported that it works for auditing purposes, and all I can tell you is that people who run the processes get a great deal of expanded awareness and ability from it. And that's all that counts."
    If I interpret your original answer correctly, you are saying that not only is it not an important teaching, it is not even a story (which is how I read it). Instead it describes some "processes" that can be "run" to expand awareness and abilities? I am really lost now...what processes would that be?
    Last edited by donk; 21st May 2013 at 20:47.

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    Default Re: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

    Quote Posted by WEAREONE (here)
    Quote Posted by Finefeather (here)
    Quote Posted by WEAREONE (here)
    The bottom of my post is a smaller edited copy and paste of the threads I have been reading in the LRH (L. Ron Hubbard) thread. To keep it quick and to the point I copied and pasted the more unbelievable ideas that have caused me to not be able to fully embrace the message. UNFORTUNATELY, the message is so far out from my paradigm that I can't understand the message "JIM" is sharing.
    Hi WEAREONE
    I am not a Scientologist...all my awakening and inner understanding comes from years of meditation...self and world analysis...and my ability to serve others in the astral and other realms. Here is how I interpret a few of these points you have listed in your post. Although I do not see them with the same colorful rendering as Jim does...I actually have experienced and been shown a very similar idea...which tells me that there is actually some truth in what he is saying...albeit a little jumbled at times. The ones I have not attempted to tackle are too confusing to me...although I have a glimmer of what he might be trying to tell us...wish he would stop forgetting his medication (just a joke Jim...I do love you brother )
    Quote 80 trillion years ago there was a group of people call the peace bringers ... they were so powerful that everywhere they went they brought peace .. There was another group that were war mongers ... and they were a bit of trouble but the peace bringers thought that could train them and maybe they would change to the better ... but these war mongers decided to infiltrate and steal the tech and use is to try to take over the system ... and many wars happened
    There will always be 2 sides...this is basic duality...the perceived good and the perceived bad...life is a wave of duality and it could not be any other way...it really just depends which side of the wall you are standing on. In esoteric writings we are told of the struggle between dark forces and the forces of light. The forces of light are those which seek evolution...enlightenment...expansion...and thus greater awareness and consciousness. The forces of darkness are those who seek material comfort...stagnation...and seek to avoid evolution...which brings with it the knowledge of the brotherhood of man...which leads to love, peace, harmony and balance...as apposed to single mindedness, power mongering, greed and jeoulosy...which leads to wars etc.

    Quote We are on a prison planet ... it took them billions of years to create this ... NO ONE ESCAPES from a prison planet ... NO ONE until Siddhartha Gautama Buddha did 2500 years ago ... any religion that tells you that you have no power and only god has power and any other power is the devil will never get you off this planet
    it takes a being with a lot of power to get off this planet ... and giving all your power to a god that someone says exists isn't going to get you off the planet
    .
    This in my view is quite acceptable and very true from an esoteric point of view. Call it what you like...”prison planet” is one...but we are here to break free from the bonds...the mistaken ideas...wrong thinking from years of indoctrination...loss of memory ..and much more...ALL...which comes naturally when first 'diving' into dense matter...the road is rocky and the fog is dense...our eyes are blinded and our ears are filled with mud. This has been going on for billions of years in our evolution. The time has now arrived for us to lift ourselves out of the darkness created by the forces of dense matter and rise up to meet the true man inside each one of us. The Buddha demonstrated freedom and Spiritual integrity by his enlightenment....Christ demonstrated Love and the need for knowledge to increase our consciousness and thus gain back our true power and legacy of being true Spiritual Beings...

    Love to all...be what you are...a Being of Light.

    Ray
    Thank you for the thoughtful reply. I am ok with this viewpoint of the above information, it makes sense. The view I hold that differs a bit is that the good and evil are one. The division an illusion. On the highest level I believe WEAREONE. But that is for another discussion and another thread

    The problem I seem to be having is that the discussion of information "JIM" is sharing is kind of hard to decipher where the information is coming from. It appears to be a bit more literal than an esoteric discussion on life and ascencion. It seems to be a bit more factual, full of personal experience. It is one thing to bring up ideas and discussions but is entirely different to say some of the things as fact that seem so "out there" and not really explain if the information is from personal experience, from an auditing session, from a book you read, from an astral journey, from an OOB experience. From meditation etc. For example


    these are control religions ... I went back to see Christ on the Cross .. and started running the session myself using the class 8 auditor and her meter to do it.

    I got back there ... Christ looked like he was in a very lot of pain ... I decided to go inside his body and see what was happening and a force a very big force was hitting me when I was in his body .. it was too much and I could not stay inside the body .. I got out and I saw a huge oval of gold light in front of him ... I thought he was making it .... I followed the light into the sky and it was a UFO ... and that UFO was hitting Christ with some kind of beam ... and it was flooding the crowd with pictures to create a future dark age ... I yelled ... it was a trick ... it was a trick ... it was a trick ..


    Is that message to be taken literally, if so how is that possible from an auditing session, or was that information gathered from an OOB experience, astral projection, perhaps my limited understanding of Scientology does not allow me to grasp how one can have such an experience. By using the tools of Scientology.

    It seems to me others have had the same issue with the information. It leaves me thinking if this is true, how can someone make such statements and have gained such knowledge and not be able to turn around and share the information in a clear manner that would allow the reader to better decipher message. It doesnt really matter how the information was gathered, but to just simply put it out there so casually seems odd. I would like to imagine If I was able to attain a level of mastery and knowledge of such important information I would be better able to convey my message to others. It appears that is not possible, so I will continue on my journey and will look into the tools of Scientology and will read books, watch videos and hopefully continue to grow and learn.
    the auditor did not know I was doing this on my own ... there was a guy who said he was audited and found out he was jesus christ ... and I was new in this scientology and we are not suppose to evaluate or invalidate but he is telling me that the marks of crusifixtion were on his hands .. sometimes appearing ... and then he flashes ... and says "you were one of the criminals on the cross and the other criminal was LRH and on those crosses we decided to salvage this planet ... well I was already in trouble with scientology because of the powers I had ... I could move my hands trying to explain something and the entire org speeded up and this person I was talking to rushed me out of the org ... she said, "I am OT3 and you should go back to the mission you came from) ... I got back to the mission and was told I disturbed the entire Sea Org base over there and they thought maybe I was on drugs... I asked what happened ... they said : it made everyone in the org move faster what ever I did .. .. so this guy talking about being christ ??? well I couldn't get the think he put in me out of my head and I was afraid to report him because he was in data division and I had no idea what would happen if I did report him ... i just didn't want what he said in my head ... so I took the chance in session to go back and and look and i stepped in both criminals and knew I had nothing to do with them ... but go into Christ body ... if felt like some huge piece of concrete was slamming up against me ... not me a body but me a spirit and that is a lot different feeling .. you can have something slam up against your body ... but only the body feels it ... this was hitting the being inside .. and I just had to get out ... so my cognition was they were trying to stop christ from finishing what he wanted to do ... some kind of spiritual awaking or something ... and this UFO was cloaked in gold and I saw they were radiating something out to the crowds .. which at first made me think that christ was sending some kind of light ..means spiritual awareness of some kind ... no .. that ufo was implanting the area ... so I yelled it was a trick ... I had no previous knowledge of Scientology other than the books I read so I didn't know people could have a "winning valance" ... valance means the assumed personality of someone else like you act like your father or mother sometimes .. a winning valance would be to take on the valance of some famous personality and believe you are him ... well you have to audit all these valences out to find the person himself ... but I didn't know that at the time

    jim

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    Default Re: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

    Quote Posted by donk (here)

    Is it ramblings taken out of context?

    Is it Hubbard's "truth" once he was completely "clear"?

    Is there any divine or ET inspiration?
    None at all -- it's all 'session data'. I realize that I might not have explained properly what that means -- and so if that wasn't clear, I apologize!

    Session data means the information (responses) you get when running a process. An invented example might be if you had a sense of being abandoned, and told the auditor about when no-one came to help when you fell out of a tree when you were a child.

    If that did not resolve when "running the incident" (and there are specific and exact techniques for that: see the 1950 Dianetics book I posted earlier on this thread) -- then the auditor will ask you if there is an earlier similar incident.

    At that point you might start getting images of (say) a dusty battlefield in France. (This could also be guided by 'reads' from the meter, using it as a kind of biofeedback device which let the auditor know when you are thinking a thought that has an emotional charge attached to it.)

    The auditor would ask you to tell him what you see in that scene, guiding you skillfully by asking questions -- and suggesting nothing. You might gradually realize you had fallen off a horse, and the horse was running away leaving you with a broken leg in the mud -- and no-one came to help.

    All that (the battlefield scene) is 'session data'. It doesn't matter whether it's "true" or not. We might never know. But if the emotional charge is released -- like no longer being scared of horses, or of heights, or of being abandoned -- then that's the goal. Do you see?

    It's not an archaeological dig for its own sake, or a time machine. It's a therapeutic process intended to assist you in becoming more able, confident and competent -- right now. The past is all gone, and is only relevant to the degree that it affects us in present time.

    Quote Is there "levels", stepped teachings, to Hubbard's work? Or is that complete myth/bastardization?
    There are 'levels' of progressing ability, or capability, or awareness, just as there are in Buddhism, for instance. The best presentation I've heard of it came from another Forum member, as it happens, just yesterday.

    (By the way, the concept of 'teaching' is never used. There is nothing 'taught' in that sense, at all, or nothing that one is urged to believe. If done right and applied ethically, it's all about personal sovereignty, and regaining one's own knowledge and certainty -- not that of anyone else.

    The dictum throughout is that what's real is what's real for you. Hubbard emphasized that all the time.)

    Back to topic. This very smart Forum member talked about levels of reality -- and then the auditing levels pretty much correspond to that: as one journeys through the auditing levels, those levels of reality are made more accessible.

    An analogy in another field (about which I have little personal experience) might be OBEs and astral traveling. I am told, if I understand it right, that there are 'levels' there, too. (Maybe Jake can confirm!)

    One's expertise, or level of expertise, then enables one to access different planes. This is nothing to do with auditing, but it's just a metaphor. There are also levels in Reiki, Meditation (so I'm told), Yoga, and in many other realms of acquired skill and ability. This is no different.

    Quote I have shared with you the info I was able to find--which is kind of the mainstream view, kindly share your interpretation/data?
    Done, as best I can.
    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 21st May 2013 at 21:07.

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    Default Re: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

    Quote Posted by donk (here)
    It is true that outsiders CLAIM that as the highest most secret of teachings...I am sharing a perspective in hopes you can clear it up (especially whilst people are discussing the details in the LRH thread, as if it is something to be discussed as a piece of true history).

    I don't disbelieve anything, just looking for clarity, sharing a view from the outside in hopes of being enlightened. I would appreciate anyone familiar's take on that particular teaching.

    Is it ramblings taken out of context?

    Is it Hubbard's "truth" once he was completely "clear"?

    Is there any divine or ET inspiration?

    Is there "levels", stepped teachings, to Hubbard's work? Or is that complete myth/bastardization?

    I have shared with you the info I was able to find--which is kind of the mainstream view, kindly share your interpretation/data? Thanks
    Bill will probably have a different answer than mine, however here is mine:

    The OT III materials are not "teachings," they represent one of the main stumbling block into which anyone, from planet Earth, on their way to "enlightment" runs into. The actual teachings of the applied philosophy that is Scientology are aimed to rehabilitate the abilities of a being/individual/spirit/thetan once past the main stumbling blocks inhibiting such recovering of abilities (see this post <---).

    The OT III materials were confidential for different reasons. One of them being that it could be very lethally harmful to someone unprepared when running into it.

    Another reason is probably that LRH didn't want the "enemy" to get the data and use those to further their mind-control programs.

    The other thing for the propaganda and flack against Scientology, LRH and OTs and why the CIA and KGB were after him, stem from this:

    Quote Posted by Amzer Zo (here)
    [...]

    From someone who's been there, done that... Ingo Swann in his book "Penetration":

    [...]

    The work (in developing remote viewing) was largely funded by the U.S. intelligence agencies. Because of this, many Washington types and many noted scientists visited SRI. Very many of them met only with my colleagues, and refused to meet little Moi, so much so that they would not even take lunch with me.

    The reason: “Jesús, he can read my mind! I can’t let him get anywhere near me.”

    This quote is NOT paraphrased.

    [...]


    That example gives also a clue as to why so much flack against LRH research and the rehabilitation of OT abilities because it triggers a phenomenon that's called "missing a withhold" whereby someone thinks another may have found out about some murky dealings said someone has been involved with and triggers a fury from hell [against the suspected discoverer] that pales the one from a scorned woman...

    Rockefeller's puppet, Henry Kissinger, however knew he had been found out about unleashing CIA's shady attacks against LRH and Scientology... LRH had Kissinger by the balls, so to speak:

    Quote I say "Rock Festival". It's not a musical event. It was a war, actually. That was when the American Embassy had tipped off the local Communist Party there that the 'Apollo' was a CIA ship. Portugal had just gone through the throes of its revolution, so at the time it was very 'left wing'.

    And the Communists formed a big mob with torches and stones and rocks and everything and they came down to burn the ship. About 250 of them. And we fought them off for two hours and finally the local maritime police showed up with machine guns and dispersed the mob after they had knocked the Harbor-Master nearly unconscious in front of our ship with a 'two by four'. And we took him on board, gave him First Aid and he called some tug-boats and took us out to anchor where we would be safe.

    At that point, LRH said - there was also some guys of our crew chased with knives down the street and so on - but still, no one got hurt from our side. Well, two people got knocked out by rocks, but they just didn't stay down. But none of the family was hurt. LRH was not hurt. Mary Sue was not hurt. Nobody else was hurt.

    And LRH decided then that it was time to leave this area. It was getting a little too bit agitated by these US Government people. When we traced back the lines it always came from the United States and that was when a guy named Henry Kissinger was the Secretary of State. The orders were coming from his office through the Embassies and CIA.


    So we went down to the Caribbean, through the Bahamas and so on. And finally the State Department of the United States with Kissinger at the wheel - you know Kissinger is one of the top SMERSH guys, as you know - a Public Relations man normally, although he opens his mouth a little bit too much most of the time - but he's one of the 'evil beings' on the planet.

    He then started telexing his Embassies and so on in Barbados and Curacao, and what's the name of that place with all the oil and stuff there? Oh yeah - I've got it written right here - Oh yeah, I know what it is. This goes into 1975, I've just got to bring you up a year. Barbados, Trinidad and Curacao. We had attacks in all those places.

    We were able to handle most of them because these countries are very small. We did get asked to leave a few ports and nobody could understand why, except it was some 'pressure' from the United States, they would "cut their foreign Aid" or something if they did (welcome us).

    We also captured some telexes directly from the State Department that gave these orders and these were used in a lawsuit that LRH asked to be brought against Kissinger, the State Department, and several other named Embassy and American consular officials. And it was filed in the United States. An 800 million dollar lawsuit against Henry Kissinger and other people in the State Department, who were in office at the time, by the way.

    Now, the United States Government went through a whole series of convolutions to keep this a secret. It never appeared in the press. And this suit will become important in the next years, so just remember that.

    That suit is now being pushed, pushed, pushed in 1975 through the courts in the United States, trying to get somebody to open it up, make it public, accept it, DO IT, see?

    (
    A DEBRIEF by CAPT. W. B. Robertson RA, Sector 9)
    Edit:

    Quote Bill will probably have a different answer than mine, however here is mine
    Ooopss... too slow
    Last edited by Hervé; 22nd May 2013 at 00:06.
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    Default Re: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

    Quote Posted by Sierra (here)
    Quote Posted by Nanoo Nanoo (here)
    The Nerve endings to the Pineal Gland is in the thumbs

    Naniu
    Well I'll be darned. The Buddhist meditation thumb positions suddenly make sense.

    Thanks Naniu.

    Sierra
    Yes Sierra

    The fingers and thumbs are like an old operators swith board, if positioned correctly can re route signals to better amplify certain parts of the brain. Mudras are much like this. Sensitives often feel who you are through the hand shake as this is a direct transfer of information from palm to palm.

    This why the E Meter uses the hands to read minute electrical impulses. Seeing that all questions posed to an auditee , regardless of what mode they are in , will stimulate the thymus gland in terms of creating a direct processor emission signal. The E meter is specifically attuned to read these and is obvious it would be in order to help read brain wave activity.

    Im not trying to take away from LRH's legacy. I dont have an opinion about scientology either way. I believe that with such a machine as the E Meter coupled with a person that is genuine and well trained in healing practice and using a subject who is in complete belief of the e meters effectiveness that " Healing " can most definitely be done.

    I would not be surprised , depending on the integrity of the Auditor that one could make the auditee do and say anything as a result in the proportional belief and convition invested in the church and auditing system.

    All healing practice relies on a conviction of its process. The ailments within our mind is a program we put there with a propencity to repeat a thought process which in turn becomes a belief and then a program. This repetition process then ingrains its self in our bodies and organs. Just like writing the word Love on a bottle of water can change the waters crystaline structure , so too can this happen with repetitive thought on the cells of our bodies.

    Why is it so ? ( thank you professor Sumner Miller ) I believe that the word
    " Love " gains its power from the belief proportionally invested in the word which in turn makes it a symbol. When this Symbol is written onto a body that can resonate its vibratory emination, the body then picks up on this and depending on its propencity to believe and then absorb the emination, is then affected by the symbol in which case is Love and everything is stands for. It is a symbol because of the great investment of spiritual and scientific energy mass which is " thought " enhanced by " emotion " as a multiplier. The visulisation of this word is very much iof not always associated with a beneficial or caring moment., the pensive thought process during this moment in turn adds to the symbol of Love as an alive entitiy of its own right. Even when love causes pain it is a sweet pain which is always returned to or attributed to fondness of being.

    Reiki practitioners draw reiki symbols on their bodies to amplify their auric field. Ive seen them do it and they report being in a state of bliss. I have tried this and found the greater i practiced these symbols the more powerful they became with healing etc. I believe this is because of the proportional belief and repetitve programming invested in the practice that gave my mind the ability to chanel their intended purpose. The symbol is merely just that... its a switch for a correlated number of synaptic pathways that open when we believe in that symbol and what it represents. And that is intrinsically how we work.

    Holographically our inner sun and mind house the soul and the soul can be acessed by using the minds eye as a teleport for wherever we wish to travel.

    immagination
    kindness
    intention
    love
    forgiveness
    excitement

    these all direct your inner sun to good places which eminate similar frequencies.. like attracts like in this example.

    Naniu
    Last edited by Nanoo Nanoo; 26th May 2013 at 14:32.

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    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

    Quote Posted by RMorgan (here)
    Quote Posted by Fred Steeves (here)
    Is it a question that just shouldn't be asked? Is it a challenge to a claim or info given? Is it pointing out inconsistencies, discrepancies, or red flags, and asking how come? Is it an unconscious engram being restimulated, that simply needs to be audited? Is it wondering why the sudden avalanche of Scientology tech here, starting with the introduction of a previously unknown Scientology super hero? Is it wondering why we suddenly have to have a new leader figure to guide us young'uns out of the briar patch?
    Hey Fred,

    You know what really perplexes me?

    Well, it´s the undeniable fact that such subject gained that much traction here based on huge, unverifiable and unfounded claims made by someone who believes to be the second coming of Jesus or something close to it.

    This is really impressive; If there was an yearly gullibility award, PA would be a serious candidate to win it.
    Raf -- I really understand.

    But Simon Parkes claims experiences that can't be proved. Inelia told astonishing stories that can't be proved (including many that were never published: we edited them out of her interview because they were too sensational).

    Clif High's calculated predictions can't be proved. (Has anyone checked his math?!) David Icke can't prove his experience when he took ayahuasca in Peru a few years ago and listened to a discarnate women talking to him for many hours.

    I saw an ET physically appear in my bedroom in 1984. I can't prove that, either. Neither can Jake prove any of his OBEs.

    Henry Deacon can't prove he's been to Mars.

    In fact -- the world is FULL of astonishing personal experiences. Most of the most important experiences in anyone's life can't be 'proved'.

    But that doesn't mean that someone should not be frustrated or confused at all the bewildering claims. So that's why I understand.

    All people can do -- if they can find the courage -- is report their experience. It took over 20 years for me to summon the courage to report my ET experience to anyone other than a couple of friends.

    That's why Avalon is an exceptional community: because in the 50,000+ threads we have here, there are hundreds -- maybe thousands -- of personal posts where people have trusted the community enough to share their crazy unprovable stories.

    Raf, remember the spiders you 'saw'? That's one example of many. (I won't ask you to prove it! I do not believe you were lying or deluded. But by sharing that story, you actually helped many others who were trying to makes sense of their own experiences.) That's why this is important.

    We're all story-telling here, round the campfire -- and that is a time-honored, ancient tradition. Any student of traditional cultures knows that story-telling is a really important activity -- and is not trivial at all. If people learn from the stories... that's what is important.

    We do need to be scientists, and I have the deepest respect for you for that commitment within yourself -- but there's also much more to life and experience than just that. Sometimes, we may never know the truth... but can learn from it nonetheless.

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    Default Re: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

    Hello Bill,

    I very much appreciate your sharing with us for whom this is quite new - and years after the Dan Tops interview - something of your deep understanding of how the original scientology works

    To improve some aspect of my life I have often used a method or product recommended by some (hopefully genuine) expert to move beyond it. But it has soon become obvious that it wasn't going to work or perhaps I'd just hear the words: "It'll work for others, but not for you".

    The main theme of the other programme seems to be that, no matter how successful, competent, caring (or whatever) I at first seem to be in some new situation, I'll bugger it all up and prove that I'm just another of the 'sheeple'. As an example, I was allowed to do quite well in my French studies, but not long after I started teaching I had lost control in the classroom and so proved to people (again) that I was a failure in life.

    Despite my having over the last 15-20 years made use of numbers of different therapies and therapists, including a lot of NLP, none of them really worked for me.

    Actually, the only tools to have ever produced lots of pleasant changes in my life are those offered by Pleiadians Plus (Barbara Marciniak), that I've been using for some 18 months. I also still use a couple of techniques from James.

    En passant, it's taken me close on two hours to put together these few sentences.. But I don't give up easily - so a question or two for you, Bill.

    As I too want auditing to "cut through my life junk like a knife through butter", would I be wise in arranging for a more experienced auditor through the Ron's Org at Bristol rather than via the (apparently) new Org at Milton Keynes. I live in central west London (Kensington-NottingHill)? Or is there someone competent in London itself? Or just choose anyone they suggest?

    Sincerely,

    Stephen

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    Default Re: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

    My 5 cents ... I have noticed that the Scientology theme has basically took over the topics here on project avalon ... Perhaps, it is the old divide-conquest tactics being played so we put our efforts on discussing it, I am not saying it is not worth to discuss it but as I learned so far reading all the posts, isn`t there a third party on this subject that want us all loose our focus on other current issues ? Anyway, not judging but just questioning.
    Peace to all.

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    Default Re: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

    Quote Posted by Azt (here)
    ....that want us all loose our focus on other current issues ? Anyway, not judging but just questioning.
    Peace to all.
    Azt, I totally respect your position and understand it. The problem with dianetics tech, at least for me has been with the dianetics book itself, which should be and is a good start but it’s not a bloody easy read! Ideally, you would find someone else with whom to co-audit. That was the whole objective of the book: to get people to apply the simple techniques to one another. Besides, it is fair to say that 50% of the gains to be made from the Scientology tech comes from the learning and the training. The other 50% comes from the processing (auditing). Another LRH book which would be useful, as a first step, is called Self-Analysis. As the title implies, it is auditing that one does to oneself. It basically helps to unlock your memories along with all the perceptics (visual, audio, smell, touch, etc.) and to dissipate any negative emotional energy connected with them. It might also help to revive some lost abilities...
    And when you begin to experience some of the things that Jim is talking about, you’ll come to understand that there is much more to you than what I call the “exterior noise”. And at that point, your opinion changes as your reference point is different.
    The ultimate ignorance is the rejection of something you know nothing about and refuse to investigate.
    – Dr. Wayne Dyer

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    Default Re: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

    Quote Posted by jiminii (here)
    in the beginning it was a game ....but very often people will invalidate it ... I would try to sincerely try to show people that they could do these miracles ... there are many ... like moving my hand near someones toothache and suddenly the toothache disappears ... or when I knew cathy at the health food store she was rolling over in pain on the floor ... and we both tried to follow the rules of healing by auditing like don't mix practices ... but she is on the floor screaming .. so I asked her if it is ok if I can help her my way and she said ok .. I moved my hand near her side between ribs and hips and the pain just blew and she jerked a bit.
    ...
    I haven't dropped that postulate .. but I don[t fight with weather anymore .. jim
    yes we can do these things ... healers do it, i've healed a toothache, but not instantaneously, it took more time. come to think of it, i can remember a time that i influenced the weather ...

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    Default Re: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

    ok so I have been reading the Dianetics book, skimming mainly because it is a lot. I have to be honest, it is putting me to sleep literally. I am coming into this with an open mind, because I will not deflect anything until i know what it is I am looking at. I am going to be honest, it seems kinda like brainwashing to me, almost kind of creepy, the whole repeating phrases over and over. Obviously I am a total dianetics illiterate. I get that. LOL
    I also think that when you get into middle age, to start something like this, could literally take hundreds of hours, not to mention thousands of dollars.
    I believe Jim stated something like , and I will paraphrase "if you read the Phoenix Lectures, you can be enlightened, (or maybe he said, you can change your whole life" something like that, anyway, I tried to find the post, I had asked ,for a beginner, if he could recommend one book, which would it be, and his answer was that, about the Phoenix lectures.
    So (sorry for the long post),,, My questions.
    1. is it possible to do this work without an auditor, or by self auditing. I am assuming no, because it seems very similar to hypnosis, where you are in an altered state of consciousness.
    2. When done properly, I am sure it is safe, however it does seem, that there is no going into this type of practice without risk. Am I correct?
    3. I found the material very technical (which I realize it is suppose to be), but very difficult to keep my attention on. Am I missing something, or is there a crash course available for middle aged people with short attention spans.
    4. Ok I had a fourth question, but I forgot what it was.

    Just want to add, I mean no disrespect by this at all, as I do believe when done, and done correctly, can be very beneficial. But, OMG, it really seems like a tremendous about of time and energy (and money). Who has all that?

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    Default Re: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

    Quote Posted by Christine (here)
    Quote Posted by CdnSirian (here)
    Jiminii said he is the viewpoint of Maitreya - how does one take that?
    I cant' answer that for anyone but myself, and I would say with a grain of salt. If I were able to be face to face with Jim and get to know him much better I maybe could form an opinion. A far as I go is to understand that we can take on the view point of another, I have found myself in such a situation where momentarily I became the other. Other than that I am not sure.
    Perhaps, this can help... Something from Chris Thomas' writings

    "...There is a new 'Meritrea', 'he' is contained within each and every one of us, the soul. We no longer need to look outside of ourselves to find the answers we need for our lives. They are already available, we just have to ask." -- Chris Thomas


    turiya
    Last edited by Paul; 22nd May 2013 at 12:54.

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    Default Re: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

    Quote Posted by Wantsthetruth74 (here)
    ok so I have been reading the Dianetics book, skimming mainly because it is a lot. I have to be honest, it is putting me to sleep literally.

    [...]
    You might want to have a look at this post <--- especially the third one... the reason why all scientology books have a warning about not going past a word the reader doesn't understand. The latter makes one yawn and feeling sleepy.

    So, if you just skimmed through the book... you might have accumulated quite a number of those

    One thing to remember, the language used in the Dianetics book was the current, common daily language in the 50s. Hence, if one finds it complicated or using Shakespeare's language... you know what to blame... US's "dumbing down" of its education level... so that one would need the MSM and "news" to do the "'splaining."
    "La réalité est un rêve que l'on fait atterrir" San Antonio AKA F. Dard

    Troll-hood motto: Never, ever, however, whatsoever, to anyone, a point concede.

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    Default Re: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

    Hi Bill,

    I will be honest I am approaching this with extreme caution. I have an open mind and am aware of how easily the baby can be thrown out with the bathwater. I understand the concept of 'clear' and feel that I have been doing a good job of working towards a similar goal. The approach I have taken however is much more organic and does not involve technology (and is not derived from anything related to the teachings of LRH). My teacher is the universe.

    However, that being said I am very aware that there are many roads and do not automatically discount the one promoted by Hubbard. The problem I have however is that when I research Hubbard (the person who one would think would be in the best position to benefit from the effects of the technology)...I find endless evidence that suggest that what he practiced differed very greatly from what he preached. There are family members, and many who worked closely with him who suggest that rather than an archetype of balance and purity, he was instead psychologically disturbed.

    What are your thoughts on this.

    Thanks

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    Default Re: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

    Quote Posted by turiya (here)
    Quote Posted by Christine (here)
    Quote Posted by CdnSirian (here)
    Jiminii said he is the viewpoint of Maitreya - how does one take that?
    I cant' answer that for anyone but myself, and I would say with a grain of salt. If I were able to be face to face with Jim and get to know him much better I maybe could form an opinion. A far as I go is to understand that we can take on the view point of another, I have found myself in such a situation where momentarily I became the other. Other than that I am not sure.
    Perhaps, this can help... Something from Chris Thomas' writings

    "...There is a new 'Meritrea', 'he' is contained within each and every one of us, the soul. We no longer need to look outside of ourselves to find the answers we need for our lives. They are already available, we just have to ask." -- Chris Thomas


    turiya

    I am not the viewpoint of LRH .. and I am not the viewpoint of Siddhartha Gautma Buddha ... though I ran all their pictures through my head. LRH took 3 days .. Siddhartha Gautame took only a minute or so
    we have different memories and different timelines ... but we all come from the same spirit called metteyya ... that I know ... some say he was disturbed ... but I never saw that ... but I do have the viewpoint that he could have had some disturbances ... in the Sea Org especially Flag Service Org was very rough on me ,.. because they had all those infiltrators ... but I will tell you what happened ... I went outside the base and looked at the building and decided to handle all the counter intention .. I spotted this ... this .. and this .. some kind of something in the space ... and suddenly something entered my mind like saying "what do you want to do with that?" ... this time I thought " hit it " .. next day 3 people RPFed ..means rehabilitation project force .. which is where people who are destructive to the org are given a chance to change ... they do cleanup work on the buildings or something like it ... and get auditing everyday to remove this counter intention ..
    ok I went out every night .. if I found 4 spots in space .. the next day 4 people are RPFed ..every time the exact number I spotted the night before ...more than 100 were RPFed then the space was clean ... I don't know who was in communication with me spiritually .that would do all the RPFing ... but I wrote of a letter to my OFO .. ORG Flag Officer ... we are given to tell them if we have any problems ..I said, "well the space is pretty clean ... Now we need to bring those people off the RPF because we are going over the hump ... and we will need them ..." in the next 3 or 4 days almost 90 % of about a hundred of them were coming out of the RPF and given a different post than the one they were destructive with ... I never heard this happen in the Sea Org before .. usually they would have to stay in the RPF until they were cleaned ... but that many coming all at once ???? I was surprised .. it seemed they were following my orders and I am just basically a very new recruit .... then I wrote a letter to LRH and it said, "Highest evers GI gross income this week " .. we got highest evers GI since 1979" ... now I can not see who is somehow communicating with me and they did my suggestion .. and it happened ... and so from their end ... I have no idea what was happening

    because of these things and they never gave me auditing since 1971 ... I was really confused as to who I am and why they follow my suggestions...

    the other things that happened there are this ,... 3 ethics officers came down to see me ... and said "jim we want you to write more letters "
    i said. "why?" ... they said, "everyone you're writing to is coming in" ..
    I said "why don't you get the others here writing too" .. (writing to people is something everyone is suppose to do but it is not my main job)
    they said .."they don't write as good as you."
    now is it my writing that is bringing them in .. are my intention ...

    I have no idea what I am doing

    then at night we are off work and they ask us to do volunteer work so I was sending out mail grams
    they asked me to send out more mail grams
    the same reason ... all the people are coming in ...

    so I am not him
    he is a different timeline and different personality than me ... and I have different ideas than he does ...

    so please ... I am not a viewpoint of him.. I just went in to do my mission and see what came out of it ... I am more like an observer for those in the stars .. possibly from base 2

    jim
    Last edited by Paul; 22nd May 2013 at 12:56. Reason: fix quoting

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    Default Re: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

    Quote Posted by RMorgan (here)
    Quote Posted by Fred Steeves (here)
    Is it a question that just shouldn't be asked? Is it a challenge to a claim or info given? Is it pointing out inconsistencies, discrepancies, or red flags, and asking how come? Is it an unconscious engram being restimulated, that simply needs to be audited? Is it wondering why the sudden avalanche of Scientology tech here, starting with the introduction of a previously unknown Scientology super hero? Is it wondering why we suddenly have to have a new leader figure to guide us young'uns out of the briar patch?
    Hey Fred,

    You know what really perplexes me?

    Well, it´s the undeniable fact that such subject gained that much traction here based on huge, unverifiable and unfounded claims made by someone who believes to be the second coming of Jesus or something close to it.

    This is really impressive; If there was an yearly gullibility award, PA would be a serious candidate to win it.

    You know, after all those years keeping myself informed about what goes on in the Alternative Media, my conclusion is that people simply like to hear stories; the crazier the better. The more fantastical, nonsensical and unfounded a story is, the more traction and repercussion it gets in websites such as this one.

    Next step is to set up a few interviews with Jim and make him the next alternative media celebrity of the month. He surely fits all requirements.

    Come on folks...Are you serious? Perhaps this is just a social experiment and you forgot to warn me about it?

    I´m sorry if I may sound disrespectful, but these things need to be said.

    Raf.
    I am also sorry and don't want to sound disrespectful, but(t)
    Can we at the very least go back to one of the most interesting and the most read Threads on this forum - the Horus Ra Thread... as a point of reference.
    If there is one thing most of us can kind of agree on it is that these entities(and there are many), rituals and beliefs exsist.

    If "jim" is clear then I am glad I am not "that kind of clear", he has no idea WHO he IS!
    (Respectfully and with love and kindness I appreciate what you are going through, I mean you no disrespect whatsoever. )
    Hoping in the body of Jesus, called himself possible the Marietta, a Budha like being, etc even Hubbard then not Hubbard because he then decieded Hubbard had it in for him etc - and then often states he just does. not. know.
    Come on!! We as a community should be able to rise above this "test"
    This is one big ass entity with a puppet on a string MHO

    Bill I ask you - Do you think there could be one seriously intelligent and coniving entity at play here and part of the play could be a "hook" to Inella and your attachment to her and also this forum?
    I am not blaming you nor accusing you, just stating a possibility...
    I can tell you these things are as squirrely as all get out these days
    There is something here that feels completely off!
    No need to warn me for my caution (negativity) I am taking a self imposed break, in the hope that this blows over.
    Last edited by heysoulsister; 22nd May 2013 at 07:32.

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    Smile Re: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

    . and said "jim we want you to write more letters "
    i said. "why?" ... they said, "everyone you're writing to is coming in" ..
    I said "why don't you get the others here writing too" .. (writing to people is something everyone is suppose to do but it is not my main job)
    they said .."they don't write as good as you."

    now is it my writing that is bringing them in .. are my intention .


    Thats a good one.

    On a more serious note,,any ideas why this topic generates so much anger. Is it fear as yoda once said

    “Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.”

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    Default Re: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

    Quote Posted by WEAREONE (here)
    On a more serious note,,any ideas why this topic generates so much anger. Is it fear as yoda once said
    Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.”
    It is unimaginable... how this drastic step was taken by people who had all the good intentions in the world... you may not have suspected, even... What has destroyed Love?

    It is the continuous teaching of Love that has destroyed it...
    Hate is still pure... Love is not. When you hate, your hate has an authenticity. And when you love, it is only hypocrisy.

    This has to be understood:
    For thousands of years, all the religions, politicians, pedagogues, etc., have been teaching one thing... and, that one thing is 'Love'.
    Love your enemy... Love your neighbor... Love your parents... Love god...
    Why in the beginning, they started this strange series of teachings about Love?

    They were afraid of your "authentic" Love... because the "authentic" Love" is beyond your control. Your are possessed by it, you are not the possessor, you are the possessed. And, every society wants to be in control. The society is afraid of your wild nature. It is afraid of your natural-ness.

    So, from the beginning it starts cutting your wings. And the most basic thing, which is dangerous in you, is the possibility of Love. Because, if you are possessed by Love, you can go, even, against the whole world. -- Osho
    SOURCE
    Last edited by turiya; 22nd May 2013 at 11:30.

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