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Thread: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

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    Default Re: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

    Quote Posted by rmauersr (here)
    [...]

    Does anyone know what the meter is responding to? Resistance, temperature, pulse rate, or something else more metaphysical?

    Is the power source batteries?

    Having spent some time in analog circuit design, I am curious.

    The basic design of the e-meter is a Wheatstone Bridge working on DC batteries (1,5 V) with a potentiometer to increase or decrease the voltage to equalize the circuit where one of the resistance (Rx) is the "PC's" body:


    Wheatstone bridge

    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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    Wheatstone bridge circuit diagram.


    A Wheatstone bridge is an electrical circuit used to measure an unknown electrical resistance by balancing two legs of a bridge circuit, one leg of which includes the unknown component. Its operation is similar to the original potentiometer. It was invented by Samuel Hunter Christie in 1833 and improved and popularized by Sir Charles Wheatstone in 1843. One of the Wheatstone bridge's initial uses was for the purpose of soils analysis and comparison.[1]


    The operation of the e-meter doesn't even care about the value of that resistance.

    The auditor only cares if the "PC's" body resistance suddenly increases or decreases...

    A "lie detector," like an e-meter, addresses the changes occurring within an individual in the here and now in reaction/response to questions.

    Trouble is, and for most people, the here and now contains everything from the past as well as the "automatic" future on top of the "now" (see Steve Richards). Hence a lie detector is unreliable since "reads/registers" can come from past lives, current life, automatic current future and future lives.

    People operating lie detectors neglect past and future thinking that any read can only be due to current life. Also, they do not differentiate between a past reality gone unconscious and a virtual, fictitious reality consciously imagined/"mocked up"/thought about by an individual in his/her thoughts.

    E-meter operators, up until jiminii, considered current life and past lives but neglected "futures" except as "intentions" in the present. However, e-meter operators do differentiate, between unconscious storage and conscious imagining of such, in determining whether a "read/register" is instant or not.

    Now, the e-meter kept being modified and became a "sophisticated" Wheatstone Bridge because there are a number of ways a "read/register" can occur.

    The two main ones being and addition or reduction of mass (ridge*) which modifies the overall resistance of the body (Rx) holding the "meter's" electrodes and/or an addition (feeding) or removal (sucking) of electrical energy in the Rx circuit by the "thetan" or by induction due to an electromagnetic "mass" moving around within the individual's field or, also, by electromagnetic signals from TV, radio, cell towers, cell phones, truck and cars passing by, etc...

    The "sophistication" in the e-meter is mainly due to the latter with additions of filters to eliminate environmental "parasites"/interferences. These are the "frequency filters" added to the basic Wheatstone Bridge of the e-meter circuit.

    The e-meter operator can only see what happens on the meter unless also "psychic" or a very keen observer able to notice subtle changes in the individual holding the meter's electrodes.

    LRH being both psychic and gifted with a very keen sense of observation, realized that most "auditors" weren't or wouldn't be either and threw the idea -- for anyone to grab on -- of being able to measure what was happening to "ridges"* in an individual's field when these "ridges" are re-activated ("looked" at or displaced) blown or vanished (as-ised).

    Mathieson grab the ball and ran with it and LRH being able to "see" what was happening in people's field as well as corroborate the subtle energy behaviour with physical observation of the "Rx" body holding the "cans"/electrodes was able to modify, suggest improvements and calibrate the e-meter down to what was only necessary to measure or "read" on its dial.

    So, being "In Session" and therefore being "interested in one's own 'case' and willing to talk to the auditor" rather than playing with one's energy field to "see" what it would do on the meter is the optimum condition for the use of an e-meter as a tool to help locate where a "ridge"* is causing troubles in one's life.



    * RIDGE,
    1. it's a standing apparent motionlessness of some kind or other, an
    apparent solidity, an apparent no-outflow—no-inflow, that's a ridge. Flows
    have direction. Ridges have location. (5904C08)

    2. a ridge is caused by two energy flows coinciding and causing an enturbulence of energy, which, on examination, is found to take on a characteristic which in energy flows is very like matter, having its particles in chaotic mixture. (Scn 8-80, p. 43)

    3. a ridge is formed from two [opposite] flows and these two flows hitting will pile things up. (PDC 18)

    4. a ridge is essentially suspended energy in space. it comes about by flows, dispersals or ridges impinging against one another with a sufficient solidity to cause an enduring state of energy. (Scn 8-8008, p. 18)

    5 . a solid body of energy caused by various flows and dispersals which has a duration longer than the duration of flow. Any piece of matter could be considered to be a ridge in its last stage. Ridges, however, exist in suspension around a person and are the foundation upon which facsimiles are built. (Scn 8-8008, p. 49)

    6 . facsimiles, or pictures, of motion. (Scn 8-80, p. 45)

    7 . areas of dense waves. (Scn 8-8008, p. 78)

    8 . electronic densities. (Scn Jour 6-G)




    Flow 1 (intention) --------------> X <------ Flow 2 (counter-intention)
    Ridge



    Most of the time, the counter intention to one's intention is long gone but the created ridge is still there. When, once again, one flows out such an intention (or "looks" at it as directed by a question), that intention "hits" the ridge and its initial "counter intention" is reactivated and confused as being in "present time." Conversely, when a similar "counter intention" is encountered, and although the "intention" is long gone, that "counter intention" also "hits" the ridge and the initial intention "wakes up"....

    Accordingly, most people are kept in the "jails" of the past... whence prejudices, antagonisms, conflicts, etc. are kept alive... many a "gut's feeling" are borne out of those "ridges"....
    "La réalité est un rêve que l'on fait atterrir" San Antonio AKA F. Dard

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    Default Re: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

    a friend of mine said magnetism... but that i guess could b included in what u suggested, and i believe nanoo said it responding to his turning on and off of third eye
    Quote Posted by rmauersr (here)
    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    ------

    A little more in answer to seko above:

    • One can also do sessions with a distant auditor over Skype. (The meter can be with either person.)
    • When solo auditing, unless one is very experienced or highly qualified, one does need guidance on what to audit (i.e. what question-and-answer processes to 'run') from someone who is qualified and experienced and who understands what you're wanting to address.
    Does anyone know what the meter is responding to? Resistance, temperature, pulse rate, or something else more metaphysical?

    Is the power source batteries?

    Having spent some time in analog circuit design, I am curious.
    Last edited by thunder24; 24th May 2013 at 03:26.
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    Default Re: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

    Wheatstone was an Aetherist.

    Quick notes on duplication of a functional circuit. And best use, as a quick analysis on potential issues.

    Do not use any permeable materials in it's construction. Keep all circuitry away from any metals of any kind. (secondary effects).

    Check to see if any of the components, including the meter have permeable metals in their construction...use a small neodymium magnet to accomplish this. If you find steel, do not use that component.

    Your dilemma is that the meter will be the biggest fault in that chain, the meter using spring steel for the needle position mechanism. do your best to find batteries that are non-magnetic. Use batteries. Don't use plug in devices, except for charging batteries. Do not operate it on a metal table, for example.

    I can probably make a decent meter. I've got some tricks....
    Last edited by Carmody; 24th May 2013 at 03:45.
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    Default Re: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

    Quote Posted by rmauersr (here)
    Does anyone know what the meter is responding to? Resistance, temperature, pulse rate, or something else more metaphysical?

    Is the power source batteries?

    Having spent some time in analog circuit design, I am curious.
    Based on what some other members posted recently, I got the impression that the meter was a Wheatstone bridge ohmmeter with automatic gain control and frequency filters, to make it sensitive to -changes- in resistance, especially in some rough range (from my unreliable memory) of a few hertz to a few dozen hertz. Apparently there have been quite a few variations over the years, as improvements in economically available electronics enabled improving the power supply (going to battery - Bill says his meter has only needed one battery change in many years now) and in better filtering and gain control.

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    Default Re: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

    What are the 'cans' (electrodes) normally made out of? This is important.
    Last edited by Carmody; 24th May 2013 at 03:56.
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    Default Re: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

    The specs for the original "cans"/electrodes were that they be coated with tin. Hence the old tin cans for soups, asparagus, etc. were used in the old days.

    Then, the "standard" ones were tin platted copper.

    Now the "church" uses stainless steel cans, forgetting the initial LRH observation that tin has a stabilizing effect of keeping the individual being audited (PC) in present time, i.e. in the "now."
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    Default Re: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

    Quote Posted by Paul (here)
    Quote Posted by rmauersr (here)
    Does anyone know what the meter is responding to? Resistance, temperature, pulse rate, or something else more metaphysical?

    Is the power source batteries?

    Having spent some time in analog circuit design, I am curious.
    Based on what some other members posted recently, I got the impression that the meter was a Wheatstone bridge ohmmeter with automatic gain control and frequency filters, to make it sensitive to -changes- in resistance, especially in some rough range (from my unreliable memory) of a few hertz to a few dozen hertz. Apparently there have been quite a few variations over the years, as improvements in economically available electronics enabled improving the power supply (going to battery - Bill says his meter has only needed one battery change in many years now) and in better filtering and gain control.
    the meter reads the spirits viewpoints disagreements ...

    so if you did something wrong reads
    if something happened to you, it reads
    if something happened to others that effects you it reads
    if something you should have done and didn't do .. it reads
    it doesn't read pleasure

    jim
    Last edited by jiminii; 24th May 2013 at 04:12.

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    Default Re: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

    Quote Posted by Amzer Zo (here)
    The specs for the original "cans"/electrodes were that they be coated with tin. Hence the old tin cans for soups, asparagus, etc. were used in the old days.

    Then, the "standard" ones were tin plated copper.

    Now the "church" uses stainless steel cans, forgetting the initial LRH observation that tin has a stabilizing effect of keeping the individual being audited (PC) in present time, i.e. in the "now."

    Direct gold plated titanium would be....nearly optimal. Or, direct gold plated copper. Not inexpensive, but probably...notably more centered and responsive. 'Direct gold plated' means no inter-metallic between the gold and can material. Hollow, of course.

    Ron's comment on tin would have to be investigated.

    Titanium, for the most part, does not suffer from eddy current. This is fairly unique in the tble of elements, in the area of suitable materials.

    Gold has no oxide issue to screw up other aspects. (Sweat, humidity, etc)

    The combination of the two gives a much cleaner 'floor' for any given potential in measurement.
    Last edited by Carmody; 24th May 2013 at 04:20.
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    Default Re: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

    Quote Posted by Carmody (here)
    Wheatstone was an Aetherist.
    Do you say this to praise Wheatstone, or to bury him (my silly take-off on this quote) ? (Well, I'll guess neither ... that you're just tossing a stone into the pond, to see what sort of ripples result.)

    For a Wikipedia presentation of what it means to be an Aetherist (if I understand Carmody right), the interested reader might consider Lorentz ether theory (Wikipedia) or Aether Theories (Wikipedia).

    Personally my own intuitions, though quite less well formed by genius, study or experiment than the giants of the late 1800's, tend more toward the inclusion of some sort of aether, and toward a local, real view, than that supported by present day "accepted" physics. The trick, that I have in no way mastered yet, is explaining away the results of various Bell inequality and Hardy-Jordan experiments, which purport to demonstrate the essential validity of a non-real, non-local quantum mechanics (Bohr's Copenhagen Interpretation.)
    Last edited by Paul; 24th May 2013 at 04:20.

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    Default Re: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

    Quote Posted by Amzer Zo (here)
    ...


    The two main ones being and addition or reduction of mass (ridge*) which modifies the overall resistance of the body (Rx) holding the "meter's" electrodes and/or an addition (feeding) or removal (sucking) of electrical energy in the Rx circuit by the "thetan" or by induction due to an electromagnetic "mass" moving around within the individual's field or, also, by electromagnetic signals from TV, radio, cell towers, cell phones, truck and cars passing by, etc...

    The "sophistication" in the e-meter is mainly due to the latter with additions of filters to eliminate environmental "parasites"/interferences. These are the "frequency filters" added to the basic Wheatstone Bridge of the e-meter circuit.

    The e-meter operator can only see what happens on the meter unless also "psychic" or a very keen observer able to notice subtle changes in the individual holding the meter's electrodes.

    LRH being both psychic and gifted with a very keen sense of observation, realized that most "auditors" weren't or wouldn't be either and threw the idea -- for anyone to grab on -- of being able to measure what was happening to "ridges"* in an individual's field when these "ridges" are re-activated ("looked" at or displaced) blown or vanished (as-ised).

    Mathieson grab the ball and ran with it and LRH being able to "see" what was happening in people's field as well as corroborate the subtle energy behaviour with physical observation of the "Rx" body holding the "cans"/electrodes was able to modify, suggest improvements and calibrate the e-meter down to what was only necessary to measure or "read" on its dial.

    So, being "In Session" and therefore being "interested in one's own 'case' and willing to talk to the auditor" rather than playing with one's energy field to "see" what it would do on the meter is the optimum condition for the use of an e-meter as a tool to help locate where a "ridge"* is causing troubles in one's life.



    * RIDGE,
    1. it's a standing apparent motionlessness of some kind or other, an
    apparent solidity, an apparent no-outflow—no-inflow, that's a ridge. Flows
    have direction. Ridges have location. (5904C08)

    2. a ridge is caused by two energy flows coinciding and causing an enturbulence of energy, which, on examination, is found to take on a characteristic which in energy flows is very like matter, having its particles in chaotic mixture. (Scn 8-80, p. 43)

    3. a ridge is formed from two [opposite] flows and these two flows hitting will pile things up. (PDC 18)

    4. a ridge is essentially suspended energy in space. it comes about by flows, dispersals or ridges impinging against one another with a sufficient solidity to cause an enduring state of energy. (Scn 8-8008, p. 18)

    5 . a solid body of energy caused by various flows and dispersals which has a duration longer than the duration of flow. Any piece of matter could be considered to be a ridge in its last stage. Ridges, however, exist in suspension around a person and are the foundation upon which facsimiles are built. (Scn 8-8008, p. 49)

    6 . facsimiles, or pictures, of motion. (Scn 8-80, p. 45)

    7 . areas of dense waves. (Scn 8-8008, p. 78)

    8 . electronic densities. (Scn Jour 6-G)




    Flow 1 (intention) --------------> X <------ Flow 2 (counter-intention)
    Ridge



    Most of the time, the counter intention to one's intention is long gone but the created ridge is still there. When, once again, one flows out such an intention (or "looks" at it as directed by a question), that intention "hits" the ridge and its initial "counter intention" is reactivated and confused as being in "present time." Conversely, when a similar "counter intention" is encountered, and although the "intention" is long gone, that "counter intention" also "hits" the ridge and the initial intention "wakes up"....

    Accordingly, most people are kept in the "jails" of the past... whence prejudices, antagonisms, conflicts, etc. are kept alive... many a "gut's feeling" are borne out of those "ridges"....
    ridges is what I can feel in my fingers .. move my hands near the body without touching and I can feel little bumps in my fingers ... a person hits his fingers and then resist the paint so the blood circulation slows way down and the finger swells up and all of the communications to the finger is pulled down ... so I can find the ridges all over the body ,.. move my fingers there and blow the ridges and the circulation starts up and next morning all the swelling in gone ..like a Japanese had a motorcycle accident and had swelling on face and hands ... after running if tor about half hour no change was visible but I could feel all the ridges blow and told him should be ok by morning ... next day all the swelling was gone and everyone was completely surprised ... you can do other things with intentions too to heal the body .. but I haven't learned them all

    jim
    Last edited by Paul; 24th May 2013 at 04:45. Reason: Trim quoted material

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    Default Re: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

    Quote Posted by kirolak (here)
    Do you remember what was said about the wrong vs right way to operate the chakras? I'd be grateful if you could just say a few words about it!
    I think he said ... running them up or down ... I think he said you should run them up... not sure .. but running them down would do the opposite

    so that would be confusing ... wouldn't it ... I can try to google it
    I don't remember what book it was in ...


    jim
    Last edited by jiminii; 24th May 2013 at 04:44.

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    Default Re: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

    Quote Posted by Carmody (here)
    [...]


    Direct gold plated titanium would be....nearly optimal. Or, direct gold plated copper. Not inexpensive, but probably...notably more centered and responsive. 'Direct gold plated' means no inter-metallic between the gold and can material. Hollow, of course.

    Ron's comment on tin would have to be investigated.

    Titanium, for the most part, does not suffer from eddy current. This is fairly unique in the tble of elements, in the area of suitable materials.

    Gold has no oxide issue to screw up other aspects. (Sweat, humidity, etc)

    The combination of the two gives a much cleaner 'floor' for any given potential in measurement.
    The thing about the operation of the meter is that one doesn't need an exact measurement but only a relative one for one "sitting"/session. Hence, besides radio waves or trains, trucks, cars passing by which could simulate a read, the relative quality of measurements taken into account dispenses with the rest of indesirable interferences; except when a PC plugs in one of his/her own electronic circuits into the meter-body circuit.

    Simply because the "reads" an auditor takes into account are the changes in resistance -- a drop or a rise in resistance -- not the absolute value before or after the change. That's only the transient that's taken into account. The drop in resistance is equated to a "ridge"/resistor has suddenly lost a bit of its mass and became less resistant or, conversely, it could also be due to a ridge/capacitor emitting/generating a small amount of current when "hit" and therefore re-activated/restimulated (see bottom diagram and comment of post # 141 above).
    Last edited by Hervé; 24th May 2013 at 05:11.
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    Default Re: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

    Quote Posted by Paul (here)
    Quote Posted by Carmody (here)
    Wheatstone was an Aetherist.
    Do you say this to praise Wheatstone, or to bury him (my silly take-off on this quote) ? (Well, I'll guess neither ... that you're just tossing a stone into the pond, to see what sort of ripples result.)

    For a Wikipedia presentation of what it means to be an Aetherist (if I understand Carmody right), the interested reader might consider Lorentz ether theory (Wikipedia) or Aether Theories (Wikipedia).

    Personally my own intuitions, though quite less well formed by genius, study or experiment than the giants of the late 1800's, tend more toward the inclusion of some sort of aether, and toward a local, real view, than that supported by present day "accepted" physics. The trick, that I have in no way mastered yet, is explaining away the results of various Bell inequality and Hardy-Jordan experiments, which purport to demonstrate the essential validity of a non-real, non-local quantum mechanics (Bohr's Copenhagen Interpretation.)
    Just making a comment on his reported background, no meaning one way or another.
    Interdimensional Civil Servant

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    Default Re: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

    Quote Posted by Limor (here)
    Quote Posted by Tangri (here)
    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    -------

    To Tangri (above):

    So ..
    • Simon Parkes (who claims he's been abducted countless times) should be in a psych ward.
    • Anyone who tries to help another person who says they're affected by negative entities is insane.
    • Anyone who is driven to attempted suicide should be under psychiatric medication.
    • Supernatural powers do not exist and are a delusion.

    Right?
    Isn't that number is high for 2,5 million city population (Izmir- Turkey) population.
    for surrender? If they were mistakenly (worths with black opp) taken in, then humanity is in real danger, even doomed we lost almost all rescue team

    your 3rd Q's answer is definitely Yes. First they must be taken an observation(auditing) then medical support.
    Supernatural power might be exist but on the other hand delusion is definitely exist.
    If you want to find about delusion this can help you

    Greyhound killer believed man he beheaded was an alien

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manito...-manitoba.html

    It must be observed for clear distinction , in knowledge,/information pollution by experienced eyes.

    Hello Tangri, We seem to be neighbors, Turkey and Israel are not that far : )


    Quote Originally posted by Bill Ryan: " Anyone who is driven to attempted suicide should be under psychiatric medication?"
    Quote Originally posted by Tangri: "your 3rd Q's answer is definitely Yes. First they must be taken an observation(auditing) then medical support"
    I wish you could consider this pretty resolute determination of yours. In our world today, many people come to the point where they are forced to rummage the garbage cans, to fight disease and infection, to live within war zones, to discover that the systems around them are collapsing, maybe discover that there is really no one who cares for them as they thought there is. We all mostly live within low energy atmosphere. The soul in such cases is making itself heard loud and clear. If someone would hit you and cause you an injury, It is unprobable that you would have been considering to arrest yourself. Societiy's attitude towards the soul as opposed to the physical organ in the body is so discriminatory.

    In addition there are other factors in this not so boring place that we live in, and there are quite a lot of outside interventions which effect our psych, whether we are aware of it or not. I have spent two years of my life under heavy depression in my twenties, I did not attempt to take my own life at any one point , but I wished someone or something else would have done that for me. It reached to a level that I was crossing the street deliberately slowly to try and get hit by a car. All the while I knew that something strange is happening with me that I could not explain. As a person my head is very well placed on my shoulders and my feet are firmely planted in the ground, but then I was recieving thoughts that were not my own. In 2006 these same thoughts (now I know were radiated to my brain), together with some health issues and a severe lack of sleep (insomnia) made me go and do something that under no other circumstances I would do and which was absolutely against my own character. I could have get away with it, but stubbornly decided to wait for the police in what was my own personal attempt to stop these thoughts and get myself out of this unexplainable state of mind. I later took responsibility on what I done although I was taken to a police station, and had to give my finger prints like a criminal. Let me give you my absolute promise that I am not one.

    We have a lot of outside influences. And of course this may not be true to all occurances and not to all cases but from what I understand and it's legitimate to have all various of opinions here, contary to what you claim, Tangri, psychiatric drugs are not able to change the situation and provide a complete recovery, it provide concealment, while the problems themselves are not being approached and the real understanding that the many reasons that our soul is sometimes crying for help is not recieving any real reference from the esteblishment, even though some good intentioned people are certainly working there.

    A few weeks ago I came across on the web in an excrept from a TV show where an inteligent, wise and sensetive person who now works as a rehabilitation guide (assisting other people with mental illness) was interviewd and had an extraordinery story to tell, in a certain period in his life he was hearing voices and was thinking that he is the head of the Israeli "mossad", he was leaving his house and heading for the knesset in Jerusalem. I had the urge to call him, I located his number and we had a brief and pleasent talk where I promised to send him some new information for his consideration. we agreed that this kind of thing often interestingly occur with people who are more sensetive and more inteligent than the average person. Not much else was talked about other then that.

    In our world today there are so many cases that can be considered as 'delusional', certainly some of them is exactly that, in some of the occurances it can be the tapping of one into another reality, in others it can be an outside intervention, and in some of the cases it can simply be the soul stating that it is hurting. But in all the cases without exception there's the one thing that characterizes our world today and that is the lack of love. If you want to heal this long list of patient, Tangri, give them love and compassion. Look them in the eye. Not one psychiatric drug can provide that, and no one medication can heal the world as much as love and some real understanding can


    ~^&*~^&*

    Limor
    LRH talked about the insane .. he gave a psychiatrist the tech that could heal their patients .. then the psychiatrist came back and said, "it worked ... I found exactly what was wrong with the patient." LRH said "so how is the patient?" .. the psychiatrists, "oh he is insane" LRH asked him what he did and he said, "well when I found out what was wrong with him I told him why all this was effecting him."
    this is a break in the auditors code ... you don't evaluate for the patient or person you are auditing ... he must get his own cognition's and another thing is this ...
    the patient is mixing pieces of the time track ... so he SEES the snakes coming through the walls ... and the psychiatrist say "that is an illusion there are no snakes" ... so the person is unable to sort out the time track and get back to present time ...
    violation of the auditors code ..,. do not invalidate what they say .., just run the incidents ... no evaluation .. no invalidation and the patient will come out of it
    \
    he said the best way to handle the insane was give them a mild sedative and put him in a completely safe environment so he can destimulate and come back to present time
    a psych ward isn't a safe space for any patient since so many insane is in constant restimulation

    jim

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    Default Re: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by enfoldedblue (here)
    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by enfoldedblue (here)
    Hi Bill,

    I will be honest I am approaching this with extreme caution. I have an open mind and am aware of how easily the baby can be thrown out with the bathwater. I understand the concept of 'clear' and feel that I have been doing a good job of working towards a similar goal. The approach I have taken however is much more organic and does not involve technology (and is not derived from anything related to the teachings of LRH). My teacher is the universe.

    However, that being said I am very aware that there are many roads and do not automatically discount the one promoted by Hubbard. The problem I have however is that when I research Hubbard (the person who one would think would be in the best position to benefit from the effects of the technology)...I find endless evidence that suggest that what he practiced differed very greatly from what he preached. There are family members, and many who worked closely with him who suggest that rather than an archetype of balance and purity, he was instead psychologically disturbed.

    What are your thoughts on this.

    Thanks
    Yes, Hubbard himself was clearly not a perfect human being. He had extraordinary positive qualities: determination, creativity, brilliant insight, extraordinary perception, energy, inspiration, leadership, organization, even genius. But he was also very stubborn, egotistical, and controlling.

    This is not denied by anyone. The same might be said of most CEOs of major organizations -- which is what the 'Church' became, even before it was taken over.

    Here are some mitigating factors which I invite anyone to consider. In proposing these, my stance is still totally that most great men (and women) are flawed, sometimes in direct proportion to the battle which they feel they're fighting in every moment of their lives.

    We know that Hubbard was attacked in every which way by the authorities from the moment they judged he was a threat. (This is why the therapy was founded as a 'Church' -- for legal protection. Scientology was never a religion.)

    Diana Hubbard, his daughter, stated on record that the first manuscript of her father's 1950 book (which he wrote in six weeks flat), Dianetics, the Modern Science of Mental Health, was stolen by the Russians. And... has anyone reading this ever been affected by psychic attacks? One might speculate on what Hubbard was enduring all those years -- all the time researching how to combat these same phenomena.

    I am a very minor public figure indeed, and yet I've been through the mill backwards, upside down, inside out and sideways. I've been attacked, discredited, smeared, pilloried, misquoted, misrepresented, disappointed, stolen from, irradiated, let down, lied to, and psychically affected in numerous ways, including several times having experienced beings trying to attack me in my dreams and sleep.

    And I'm not the only one, by any means. Sometimes this kinda gets to you (seriously: it really does); and one might forgive someone trying to do a good job which is not in the interests of the ruling elite, who occasionally snaps and does not operate at his or her finest... or (beyond that) might end up making some bad or unwise decisions.

    For these reasons, I look at his work, and that I regard as the real measure of the man.
    Thanks Bill,

    For some reason I was under the impression he was supposed to be 'clear', are you saying he was not?
    Many thanks, and this is an important question. The issue of 'Clear' is easily (and forgivably) misunderstood.

    'Clear' is a technical term meaning (as a very loose summary) that you don't have any more engrams. See the 'Dianetics Picture Book', reposted below, for details. Hubbard's description in his early 1950 book 'Dianetics, The Modern Science of Mental Health' was too optimistic in practice, though he was definitely aware of and striving for something real. 'Clear' does absolutely NOT mean that you're a perfect human being, or are not affected by other things.

    Erasing all your engrams is a very valuable threshold to cross. But it's just a step along the way. It's not at all the end of the road. There's a LOT else in terms of unfinished business, accumulated through the millennia, that can drag one down and affect attitudes, beliefs, goals, behavior, your body, and just about everything else.

    http://projectavalon.net/Dianetics_Picture_Book.pdf


    For various reasons too complex to go into here, after reaching 'Clear' as a threshold, one can then audit oneself rather than being dependent on another person to audit you. Although it's still nice, and sometimes easler, to talk to another person when figuring things out! But after 'Clear', 'solo auditing' becomes possible, and is encouraged.

    One of the reasons why 'Clear' is not the end of the personal development road is that Planet Earth is absolutely crawling with entities of various kinds which stick to our souls and our bodies -- either directly, or attached at a kind of influencing distance. (All unsavory, but true.) There are two remedies for this:
    1. Bolster ourselves up so that we are not affected by these external influences (and they are external, inasmuch as they are not within ourselves as beings).
    2. Handle and free the entities that are focused on ourselves. (And, if we wish, we can free the entities that are focused on others. This is a kind of part of the Bodhisattva function. If we can help to liberate others, then some people choose to do so.)

    Some people maintain that the entity situation on the planet isn't real, and hold a viewpoint of denial about this entire edifice of stuff -- the reality of which any shaman worth their salt over the last several thousand years knows a great deal about, and can confirm. The Buddhists know all about it, too: they call them "Angry Ghosts". It's a good term.

    But if someone does deny it, the entities don't care. (Or in some cases, they'll be delighted!) They'll go after you anyway -- especially if you're trying to change things on this planet, and help out a little. Hundreds of Avalonians know this well.

    Hubbard himself spent quite a number of years chasing down the subject of 'Clear' - and famously made one or two wrong turns, and announcements that were too premature -- but after that was all straightened out, he discovered there was a lot more 'on the other side'.

    Arguably, that was when his personality really started to change -- and it did, sometime in the 1960s. Now aware of what he was really up against (think of all the legions of Angry Ghosts in existence, and there are a lot of those!), he went into battle mode and took the 'Church' with him.

    And, my personal opinion is that he made some bad decisions, and didn't handle it very well. But his research continued, and -- as I've said elsewhere, pretty much -- tens of thousands of others have benefited hugely because he was willing to do the trial-and-error experimental work on himself.
    I went to this place where they do healing with the hands sending light into the person ... and they would sometimes find a person with 3rd degree burns all over them and while running the light the entity shows up that doesn't like the light and this person doing the light gets in communication and finds out that she is causing the burns because in the previous life she was set on fire by the person receiving the light ... so the person tries to get the them to forgive each other so the spirit attached to her would leave and start her life all over

    I can't see the ghost but ... I don't invalidate it either

    jim

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    Default Re: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

    Quote Posted by Padmé (here)
    Sorry, not trying to find fault and I promise not to enter this discussion anymore... I would however like to point out that I've only been a member since 23rd August 2012... not quite the over two years that you state... anyway... carry on... I wont disrupt for thread any longer.
    To Padme,

    http://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post678093

    Sierra

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    Default Re: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

    Quote Posted by enfoldedblue (here)
    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by enfoldedblue (here)
    Thanks Bill,

    For some reason I was under the impression he was supposed to be 'clear', are you saying he was not?
    Many thanks, and this is an important question. The issue of 'Clear' is easily (and forgivably) misunderstood.

    'Clear' is a technical term meaning (as a very loose summary) that you don't have any more engrams. See the 'Dianetics Picture Book', reposted below, for details. Hubbard's description in his early 1950 book 'Dianetics, The Modern Science of Mental Health' was too optimistic in practice, though he was definitely aware of and striving for something real. 'Clear' does absolutely NOT mean that you're a perfect human being, or are not affected by other things.

    Erasing all your engrams is a very valuable threshold to cross. But it's just a step along the way. It's not at all the end of the road. There's a LOT else in terms of unfinished business, accumulated through the millennia, that can drag one down and affect attitudes, beliefs, goals, behavior, your body, and just about everything else.

    http://projectavalon.net/Dianetics_Picture_Book.pdf


    For various reasons too complex to go into here, after reaching 'Clear' as a threshold, one can then audit oneself rather than being dependent on another person to audit you. Although it's still nice, and sometimes easler, to talk to another person when figuring things out! But after 'Clear', 'solo auditing' becomes possible, and is encouraged.

    One of the reasons why 'Clear' is not the end of the personal development road is that Planet Earth is absolutely crawling with entities of various kinds which stick to our souls and our bodies -- either directly, or attached at a kind of influencing distance. (All unsavory, but true.) There are two remedies for this:
    1. Bolster ourselves up so that we are not affected by these external influences (and they are external, inasmuch as they are not within ourselves as beings).
    2. Handle and free the entities that are focused on ourselves. (And, if we wish, we can free the entities that are focused on others. This is a kind of part of the Bodhisattva function. If we can help to liberate others, then some people choose to do so.)

    Some people maintain that the entity situation on the planet isn't real, and hold a viewpoint of denial about this entire edifice of stuff -- the reality of which any shaman worth their salt over the last several thousand years knows a great deal about, and can confirm. The Buddhists know all about it, too: they call them "Angry Ghosts". It's a good term.

    But if someone does deny it, the entities don't care. (Or in some cases, they'll be delighted!) They'll go after you anyway -- especially if you're trying to change things on this planet, and help out a little. Hundreds of Avalonians know this well.

    Hubbard himself spent quite a number of years chasing down the subject of 'Clear' - and famously made one or two wrong turns, and announcements that were too premature -- but after that was all straightened out, he discovered there was a lot more 'on the other side'.

    Arguably, that was when his personality really started to change -- and it did, sometime in the 1960s. Now aware of what he was really up against (think of all the legions of Angry Ghosts in existence, and there are a lot of those!), he went into battle mode and took the 'Church' with him.

    And, my personal opinion is that he made some bad decisions, and didn't handle it very well. But his research continued, and -- as I've said elsewhere, pretty much -- tens of thousands of others have benefited hugely because he was willing to do the trial-and-error experimental work on himself.
    Thanks for your response Bill. I just had a personal aha moment . What I get is that LRH went as far as he could with his technology....but he was missing a key ingredient in the return to wholeness...HEART. Humility, compassion and the ability to let go and be, reside in the heart. I have found that when I allow myself to drop into my heart I feel connected to something much bigger than myself; in this space I no longer feel the need to push, to control, to be important, to dominate.

    Perhaps this is what Jiminii is missing as well. There is a child-like beauty to Jiminii (as Christine pointed out), but there is also a sense of being lost and somewhat confused (hi Jiminii love to you).

    Unfortunately, or really probably more likely fortunately , I do not think that heart connection is something that can be achieved through technology. I believe it starts from cultivating and nurturing a deep sense of love for oneself (not egotistical love, but real love accepting all...the good and the bad), and from there can extend out to everyone and everything.
    the auditor is trained to be interested in the client ... called PC pre clear ... without interest the person being audited will not get interested in his case as much
    we are giving a communication course where we have to confront another person 3 feet in front of us ... without reacting to anything ... like laughing and moving lips .. anything that is not just BEING THERE is flunked and you have to start again ... we have to do this for 2 hours ... then we do another 2 hours called bullbait ... means we try to push any button we can to get a reaction ... make them angry sad laugh anything ... when the person can be there bullbaited for 2 hours he passes\
    then we have do do each part of a communication cycle ... ask a question and get the PC to answer .. if he does anything but not answer the question .. he repeats the question ... if the PC answers the question then he acknowledges by saying "thank you" .. we have to do about 4 steps to learn how to do a communication cycle that doesn't ARC break the PC .. ARC means affinity reality communication ... if you ARC break someone you have a break in affinity or reality or communication ,. for example .. a wife talks to her husband but he never acknowledges her .. so she never thinks he is listening to her ... so she gets more and more angry because she feels he is ignoring her .. things like this happen when you don't do the communication cycle the right way

    now if someone communicates with you and says something that upsets you ... then NO communication happens .. so we call this confront each other .. a kind of flattening all the buttons so you can communicate about anything to anyone ..

    now when you have someone sitting back in an incident you are trying to run out ... and he is in the battle with nepolian and he's sitting there right in the battle and you see him all so emotional you can not react to this and go off and do something else .. you must confront it so he can get through the engram ...

    hope this better explains what it takes to be an auditor

    jim

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    Default Re: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

    Quote Posted by CdnSirian (here)
    Jiminii said "in the last few days I have experience auditing coming from somewhere ."

    Jiminii who was auditing you? Was this a channelling experience? Meaning, was this a physical person or an entity from another dimension, or off planet, or a voice in your head?

    What is base 2 auditing? Thanks.
    I get the idea that he is auditing himself from base 2 ... this means that he is auditing his other timelines now where ever base 2 is in the time track maybe 300 years after now, in the spirit world there is no time ... so he is 300 years ahead of me in a different part of this 3d movie ... but the spirit being is in the same time we are now .. so he can communicate to me directly ... try to get the concept that there is 20 spirits that have created this aquarium out of nothing ... but they are not inside the aquarium .. they are outside it creating it ... then these spirits create a viewpoint to go inside the aquarium they created to see what is going on .. it could be the viewpoint without a body or a viewpoint running a body from outside the body the natural way or someone has trapped the viewpoint inside the body .... with only the memories of the body created from birth not the memories of the viewpoint before he got trapped in the body (fish) in this example
    so he audits something and at night I look up there through something and this all started when I was working at FSO flag service org ... LRH was getting into communication to blow any upset I had .... it would blow blow blow .. and then the upset was that I couldn't use an emotion to dramatize my upset .. I came to PT present time and said, "Ron are you here?" ... ok so I look through this same communication through space of some kind and all these pictures start to blow in me and I get huge body reactions of emotions blowing off and huge long exaggerated yawns ... so I know he is auditing me and sometimes he would do this in the day when I was working on something and it made it dangerous for me ... so now he waits or picks up when I want to communicate with him and he responds to the communication ..

    that is kinda how I see it

    jim

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    Default Re: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

    Quote Posted by Carmody (here)
    Wheatstone was an Aetherist.

    Quick notes on duplication of a functional circuit. And best use, as a quick analysis on potential issues.

    Do not use any permeable materials in it's construction. Keep all circuitry away from any metals of any kind. (secondary effects).

    Check to see if any of the components, including the meter have permeable metals in their construction...use a small neodymium magnet to accomplish this. If you find steel, do not use that component.

    Your dilemma is that the meter will be the biggest fault in that chain, the meter using spring steel for the needle position mechanism. do your best to find batteries that are non-magnetic. Use batteries. Don't use plug in devices, except for charging batteries. Do not operate it on a metal table, for example.

    I can probably make a decent meter. I've got some tricks....
    you can download a meter to run on the PC from free zone

    jim

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    Default Re: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

    I don't know if this is in anyway helpful, but there is a great deal of correlation between LRH teachings and the esoteric teachings of the ancient mystery schools.

    There is also a specific reason why LRH insisted on "In studying Dianetics and Scientology be very, very certain you never go past a word you do not fully understand". Words reveal their power only when, the one who speaks them, fully understands their full meaning both in the etymological but also in their symbolic aspect.

    1. Thetan comes from greek lettere theta .. that means thought or spirit .. the closest thing we can relate to is thought

    The greek letter theta "Θ" was original written like this "⊕" a circle with a cross in it. This symbol is well known as the symbol of creation. It is also the symbol for the Orphic egg, where it encompasses all of creation both physical and spiritual planes. Being the 9th letter of the alphabet (originally) denotes the 9 universal laws that govern all of creation, in which everything manifested (matter and spirit) must obey. The masonic symbols of Square and Compass also denote the tools for creation or the letter Theta.
    9 is also the number of Hermes, who in his dual property a) is the messenger from Gods to Human and v.v. and b) is the guide of the soul between the incarnated and the spiritual world.

    2. scientology (literally: "the science of knowing how to know")
    It comes from the Latin SCIO and the Greek LOGOS.
    Science in Greek is called "ΕΠΙΣΤΗΜΗ"
    In its esoteric sense it means that faith has transformed into internal knowingness

    Ε - ΠΙΣΤΗ - ΜΗ.

    E(ν) meaning eso - internal - inside
    ΠΙΣΤΗ - loosely translated "faith", what i fell or believe without scientific evidence - the internal but not yet mental belief
    ΜΗ - means I in the broader sense, not just the EGO part.

    LOGOS - ΛΟΓΟΣ in the most esoteric sense, the ineffable (word) principle. It denotes the "starting point" from which everything spawn (both spiritual and material).

    So in "the science of knowing how to know" we must add, what is that we seek to know, and that is the creation itself. Only then we are restored to our original capacity.

    The path from total ignorance (slavery) to apotheosis (fully functioning spirit) can be easily seen in Plato's cave allegory, in very specific steps. I am sure that LRH understood those steps in the highest degree. (I can post a comparison of those later, if anyone is interested)

    3. DIA-NETICS from DIA NOUS and means no more and no less than through mind.

    NOUS - Greek ΝΟΥΣ, it is translated, "the mind" but this is only part of its meaning. NOUS is the ability to think, to be self aware, consciousness, to access your memories both local (incarnated) and remote (past) etc. It is a three-fold link between body - soul - spirit.

    On the other hand DIA - ΔΙΑ - ΔΙΑΣ is the other name for Zeus ΖΕΥΣ.
    DIAS is used within the created universe and Zeus as the state above that.

    In short DIANETICS means to gain or to achieve the Mind of Zeus, God of Gods -> the true free state of the spirit.

    4. Man - Anthropos ΑΝΘΡΩΠΟΣ.
    Any descent dictionary will tell you that Anthropos means he/she who looks up, denoting that man, for some forgotten reason, always looks up in the heavens.
    The hidden part is that, in the esoteric teachings, Anthropos truly means he who has the ability to regain his memories.
    This is very very very important. Only when you remember, you can remove the obstacles and become whole.

    For those who watch DaVinci's Demons, there is a phrase used by the sons of Mithra, to recognize each other "I am a son of earth and starry heaven... Give me something to drink from the fountain of memory."

    Although this is much much older than the Mithraic mysteries (from Orphic Mysteries - instructions for the departed to afterworld), the message is clear: Only if you retain (or regain) your memories you will become whole.

    I believe if anyone carefully studies the teachings of LRH, he will reveal a lot of ancient knowledge that was hidden for i don't know how long... And I intend to study it.


    Keep up the great work.

    Stavros
    Truth will not set you free. Knowledge will...

  40. The Following 19 Users Say Thank You to sdafnom For This Post:

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