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Thread: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

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    Default Re: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

    I would like to thank Bill for posting this book, which has been a revelation to me. Having just completed reading the book, I would like to share some of my views, so here goes.

    There is a Great Truth contained in this book, namely the truth of the existence of engrams. It was intuitively clear to me as I read the book that my own timeline contains areas of occlusion, and areas where my views and opinions are founded on very faulty logic and prejudices. Without attempting to investigate my past (until I have read ‘Self-Clearing’, by The Pilot) I can already see that my faculties are impeded, despite my best attempts to date at improved self-awareness. So I am enthusiastic about Dianetics. At the same time, however, the book raises a number of fundamental questions; first and foremost is the question of past lives.

    At the time of publication, Ron Hubbard stated that the timeline begins at conception. Therefore, no engrams could exist prior to this. At the same time the book gives the impression that there are large numbers of clears in his organization, and defines clears as people who have no remaining engrams (i.e., they are clear of engrams). Later, and I have so far found only sketchy details about how this change came about, it was revealed that engrams exist from past lives. As a Buddhist, I have no personal problem with this concept, however it troubles me that he could have been so wrong. This means that the people around him, who he stated were clear, were in fact not clear, because they had remaining engrams from past lives. How could he have missed this?

    Engrams appear to be closely linked to karma, as it is understood by Buddhists. They are not the same thing, because if they were, a Clear would also be an Arahant (a realized being) which they are not. However, they are a step closer to being realized because they have rid themselves of a whole series of errors (budd: unskillful behaviours), which are causing them to repeatedly generate karma. So, a Clear is not an Arahant, but an Arahant must be (among other things) Clear.

    Karma literally means actions, and is taken to represent the universal law of cause and effect, or as JC put it ‘as you sow, so shall you reap’. However, there is also the concept of the karmic seed, where the actions have effects which lay dormant for a long time (years or up to several lifetimes) until the conditions for their ripening are in place; then these karmic seeds sprout. This particular aspect of karma sounds very similar to the action of the engram.

    The struggle with which Buddhists are involved is the struggle to be mindful at all times. Whilst this is possible it is also difficult to maintain mindfulness throughout the day, and the concept of the engram gives a perfect explanation of why this is so. If the Analyzer is not in control under certain circumstances, it is not therefore possible to maintain mindfulness, and our spiritual discipline collapses as the reactive mind takes over.

    Now, if we accept that we have engrams from past lives, this leads to a further two possibilities: either:

    (a) that we have a ‘soul’ which continues in this body from life to life, taking with it the results of actions performed in previous lives which may be called karma, including engrams, further adding to this karma by our actions in our current life, or
    (b) that our engrams are passed to us genetically by our parents in cellular form in the zygote. Given what we now know about genetics, and cellular awareness, this is also very plausible. However, it means we will inherit engrams from both parents, and they will have inherited engrams from our 4 grandparents, who will have inherited engrams from our 8 great-grandparents and so on. Therefore, taking the average age for giving birth at 25, a new born baby now will inherit engrams from some 16 people in the last 100 years alone. We will also share engrams with thousands of our relatives- a good reason to avoid interbreeding!! Therefore either (i) our engram load is increasing continuously and has done so for thousands (millions?) of years, placing us in possession of millions of unresolved engrams, or (ii) engrams have a finite life, and tend to fade with the passage of time.

    According to Buddhism, the only thing which passes from birth through death to rebirth, is our karma. Buddhism cannot confirm (or deny) the existence of a ‘soul’ or any other entity which is not empty of form. Yet clearly, something continues. If this is our karma then an individual who is cleared would now be in advantageous position in that she could now be mindful 24 hours a day, in all situations, and therefore would be able to live without generating karma through her aberrated actions. Therefore, Clearing is a big step forward spiritually, and one which is entirely compatible with Buddhism, or any other spiritual way.

    These are just my thoughts on concluding the book Dianetics. I am sharing them in the hope that someone who is further along this path might have some related wisdom to share back. I also have some other queries I would like to share (later) relating to:
    1. Inheriting engrams from people who speak different languages;
    2. Awareness attained under the effects of psychedelic drugs, which is not unconscious, but is unattainable in our normal states of consciousness;
    3. Partial consciousness, and how this operates- sharing of consciousness between the analyzer and the reactive mind;
    4. The pros and cons of self clearing, as opposed to using an auditor.

    Love, bram
    May all living beings (including you and me) find true happiness and remain healthy; may they be wise and compassionate in their actions, may they find lasting peace, and may no harm come to them. May all beings find the patience and endurance to deal with disappointment and failure, may they be released from karma and may they find enlightenment. May loving kindness fill the hearts of all living beings, near and far.

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    Default Re: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

    Quote Posted by enfoldedblue (here)
    Thanks for your response Bill. I just had a personal aha moment . What I get is that LRH went as far as he could with his technology....but he was missing a key ingredient in the return to wholeness...HEART. Humility, compassion and the ability to let go and be, reside in the heart. I have found that when I allow myself to drop into my heart I feel connected to something much bigger than myself; in this space I no longer feel the need to push, to control, to be important, to dominate.

    Perhaps this is what Jiminii is missing as well. There is a child-like beauty to Jiminii (as Christine pointed out), but there is also a sense of being lost and somewhat confused (hi Jiminii love to you).

    Unfortunately, or really probably more likely fortunately , I do not think that heart connection is something that can be achieved through technology. I believe it starts from cultivating and nurturing a deep sense of love for oneself (not egotistical love, but real love accepting all...the good and the bad), and from there can extend out to everyone and everything.
    Hi enfoldedblue,

    Thank you for the honest transparency of your words. I know that when we speak from true self, from HEART we are connecting. I feel the same way you do about heart and humility. I am aware of three perceiving and receiving centers in my body, they reside in my mind, my heart and my solar plexus (body). When I am in harmony with these three identities of self then I am in flow, right flow, acting and speaking harmoniously with myself and my environment.

    I just want to add a small bit of my own experiential data and this happen just two days ago.

    I have had the acquaintance of a highly trained tech auditor for the past year and a half. Overcoming my own distaste for Scientology, the word technology and all the jargon that accompanies the subject I permitted myself to a few sessions. I still cringe at the word tech - maybe in the 1950's it sounded better than it does now.

    Any way my experience: I was looking at a problem that I was having with another person, I was aware that this wasn't a simple misunderstanding that something very deep was blocking my flow and was creating distrust in my living environment. Where I was went in my session was so far out that I will leave the details out, it is the result that counts. What happen was that I encountered an enormous being which I worked at freeing. On being set free my heart filled with the most beautiful golden light... warmth flowed through my whole being. My personal realization, or cognition was that it is that little by little through out our present time paradigm the heart energy has been captured, locked up and used to our own detriment, just as much as the mind. When the two are set free then I believe we will finally and fully return to our True Self.

    We just so often get locked into one aspect of our BEing at the expense of the other. The integration of Self is a journey... we are well on it.

    P.S. The person that I know is so tech oriented that you would think that they don't have a heart, until you see this amazing playful being come out from time to time. Similar to jiminii for sure!

    Personally I feel jiminii's heart energy burning so strong. His posts make me laugh and smile, nothing wrong with that.

    With heart,
    Christine

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    Default Re: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

    Bill, thank you so much for all the information shared here, it's very much appreciated.

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  6. Link to Post #164
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    Default Re: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    ------

    A little more in answer to seko above:

    • One can also do sessions with a distant auditor over Skype. (The meter can be with either person.)
    • When solo auditing, unless one is very experienced or highly qualified, one does need guidance on what to audit (i.e. what question-and-answer processes to 'run') from someone who is qualified and experienced and who understands what you're wanting to address.
    Are there theories that may explain how "The meter can be with either person." when the auditor may be far away during a Skype conversation?

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    Default Re: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

    Quote Posted by jiminii (here)
    Quote Posted by kirolak (here)
    Do you remember what was said about the wrong vs right way to operate the chakras? I'd be grateful if you could just say a few words about it!
    I think he said ... running them up or down ... I think he said you should run them up... not sure .. but running them down would do the opposite

    so that would be confusing ... wouldn't it ... I can try to google it
    I don't remember what book it was in ...


    jim
    im fairly new but ive been researching chakras, and via the book 'the wheel of life' by anodea (forget last name). if you go top down you can overcharge your chakras and cause imbalance.
    if you charge upwards, from the bottom, therefore by reaching and filling your solar plexus chakra the overflow then can flow upwards in balance.
    unite, alright :hippie:
    you know one thing about music? when it hits, you feel no pain!

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    Default Re: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

    Quote Posted by rmauersr (here)
    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    ------

    A little more in answer to seko above:
    • One can also do sessions with a distant auditor over Skype. (The meter can be with either person.)
    • When solo auditing, unless one is very experienced or highly qualified, one does need guidance on what to audit (i.e. what question-and-answer processes to 'run') from someone who is qualified and experienced and who understands what you're wanting to address.
    Are there theories that may explain how "The meter can be with either person." when the auditor may be far away during a Skype conversation?
    Yes -- although only esoteric ones! But those reading this may understand.

    The distant auditor (or specifically, their body) gets in 'resonance' with the client, and therefore is able to manifest the same reads on the meter at their end.

    But clearly, to do this, the auditor needs to be in significantly good shape, so that nothing of their own is reading at all, which would of course interfere and give false indications.

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  12. Link to Post #167
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    Default Re: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

    Quote Posted by jiminii (here)
    you can download a meter to run on the PC from free zone
    Translation:

    Here Jim means a 'virtual' meter, that runs on a computer screen on Windows.

    http://freezoneearth.org/allmeters

    (Never tried or used, it, as I have a Mac.)
    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 24th May 2013 at 13:55.

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    Default Re: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

    Quote Posted by teradactyl (here)
    Quote Posted by jiminii (here)
    Quote Posted by kirolak (here)
    Do you remember what was said about the wrong vs right way to operate the chakras? I'd be grateful if you could just say a few words about it!
    I think he said ... running them up or down ... I think he said you should run them up... not sure .. but running them down would do the opposite

    so that would be confusing ... wouldn't it ... I can try to google it
    I don't remember what book it was in ...


    jim
    im fairly new but ive been researching chakras, and via the book 'the wheel of life' by anodea (forget last name). if you go top down you can overcharge your chakras and cause imbalance.
    if you charge upwards, from the bottom, therefore by reaching and filling your solar plexus chakra the overflow then can flow upwards in balance.
    you got it

    jim

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    Default Re: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

    I was reading about IBM's Watson that won on Jeopardy! not too long ago.

    It crossed my mind whether a computer could be programmed to conduct the auditing process. From my understanding Hubbard's directions are pretty formulated and strict in their application. If someone with sufficient knowledge of programming and the clearing processes worked together, perhaps an internet site could be developed where people could be automatically audited?

    Or perhaps I've underestimated the human element that's required to conduct the auditing? Just a thought, figured I'd throw it out there.

    I hope everyone is doing well this day! : )
    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 24th May 2013 at 14:24. Reason: fixed timestamp after copying the post from another thread

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    Default Re: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

    Quote Posted by bram (here)
    [..cut..]
    Now, if we accept that we have engrams from past lives, this leads to a further two possibilities: either:

    (a) that we have a ‘soul’ which continues in this body from life to life, taking with it the results of actions performed in previous lives which may be called karma, including engrams, further adding to this karma by our actions in our current life, or
    (b) that our engrams are passed to us genetically by our parents in cellular form in the zygote. [..cut..] Therefore either (i) our engram load is increasing continuously and has done so for thousands (millions?) of years, placing us in possession of millions of unresolved engrams, or (ii) engrams have a finite life, and tend to fade with the passage of time.
    [..cut..]
    Hi Bram,

    I don't know about Scientology, but your question reminded me of Holographic Kinetics by Steve Richards (discussed elsewhere on the forum), so here's his answer in case your interested in correlating different practices:

    If they are talking about the same thing - in HK you among other things also look at issues that caused pain in this/past lives and blow that of your timeline - the engrams would come BOTH:
    - from your own soul/spirit timeline indefinitley, and
    - from your ancestors down to the seventh generation. (At least when I did a session only issues up to 7 generations down the timeline were considered, so I think that's it). No idea where that cut-off time comes from though

    Thanks for your thought-provoking questions, I never considered how these things might multiply if there was no cut-off date... I hope HK is right and there IS a cut-off date, otherwise the accummulation would be astronomical.
    Does this path have a heart?
    If it does, the path is good; if it doesn't, it is of no use.
    Both paths lead nowhere; but one makes for a joyful journey; the other will make you curse your life. - Don Juan

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    Default Re: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

    Quote Posted by iNtrPrsnL aLcHmSt --0-o-- (here)
    I was reading about IBM's Watson that won on Jeopardy! not too long ago.

    It crossed my mind whether a computer could be programmed to conduct the auditing process. From my understanding Hubbard's directions are pretty formulated and strict in their application. If someone with sufficient knowledge of programming and the clearing processes worked together, perhaps an internet site could be developed where people could be automatically audited?

    Or perhaps I've underestimated the human element that's required to conduct the auditing? Just a thought, figured I'd throw it out there.

    I hope everyone is doing well this day! : )
    Yes, this is possible, and I know someone who experimented with that (writing a simple program) to run a particular process. I believe (Paul? Carmody?) in geek-speak this is called "an Expert Program". Computer training programs, that offer feedback on your answer, and then guide you to the next step (all a simple tree diagram in the software), are an example.

    I'd see the use of this as a simple guidance template to help keep you (the 'client') on track with the process you're running. You could have a text message, or even a voice, that you would trigger by pressing <Enter>, and then it'd say [something like]:

    THANK YOU. HAS THE INCIDENT ERASED?

    (response: NO)

    OKAY. DOES IT SEEM TO BE GETTING LIGHTER?

    (response: YES)

    GOOD. GO BACK TO THE BEGINNING OF THE INCIDENT, JUST BEFORE YOU REALIZED SOMETHING WAS GOING TO HAPPEN, AND RUN IT THROUGH ONE MORE TIME TO THE END. THEN LET ME KNOW WHEN YOU'RE THERE BY PRESSING <ENTER> AGAIN.

    (etc, etc)

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    Default Re: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

    Quote Posted by iNtrPrsnL aLcHmSt --0-o-- (here)
    I was reading about IBM's Watson that won on Jeopardy! not too long ago.

    It crossed my mind whether a computer could be programmed to conduct the auditing process. From my understanding Hubbard's directions are pretty formulated and strict in their application. If someone with sufficient knowledge of programming and the clearing processes worked together, perhaps an internet site could be developed where people could be automatically audited?

    Or perhaps I've underestimated the human element that's required to conduct the auditing? Just a thought, figured I'd throw it out there.

    I hope everyone is doing well this day! : )
    you need a communication cycle to do this .. the Pre Clear needs an acknowledgement and what are you going to do when he is sitting there in an incident where he is in freezing water where the ice broke and he's desperately trying to get out ... and tries to blow the session ... means run away before he completes the session ... you need an auditor to hold him and prevent him from leaving the session while you keep in your attention on him so you can get him through the incident

    when he gets to clear he can solo audit by himself

    jim

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    Default Re: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by iNtrPrsnL aLcHmSt --0-o-- (here)
    I was reading about IBM's Watson that won on Jeopardy! not too long ago.

    It crossed my mind whether a computer could be programmed to conduct the auditing process. From my understanding Hubbard's directions are pretty formulated and strict in their application. If someone with sufficient knowledge of programming and the clearing processes worked together, perhaps an internet site could be developed where people could be automatically audited?

    Or perhaps I've underestimated the human element that's required to conduct the auditing? Just a thought, figured I'd throw it out there.

    I hope everyone is doing well this day! : )
    Yes, this is possible, and I know someone who experimented with that (writing a simple program) to run a particular process. I believe (Paul? Carmody?) in geek-speak this is called "an Expert Program". Computer training programs, that offer feedback on your answer, and then guide you to the next step (all a simple tree diagram in the software), are an example.

    I'd see the use of this as a simple guidance template to help keep you (the 'client') on track with the process you're running. You could have a text message, or even a voice, that you would trigger by pressing <Enter>, and then it'd say [something like]:

    THANK YOU. HAS THE INCIDENT ERASED?

    (response: NO)

    OKAY. DOES IT SEEM TO BE GETTING LIGHTER?

    (response: YES)

    GOOD. GO BACK TO THE BEGINNING OF THE INCIDENT, JUST BEFORE YOU REALIZED SOMETHING WAS GOING TO HAPPEN, AND RUN IT THROUGH ONE MORE TIME TO THE END. THEN LET ME KNOW WHEN YOU'RE THERE BY PRESSING <ENTER> AGAIN.

    (etc, etc)
    sorry bill .. I didn't know that ... I guess you can test it out ... and have some way to keep the PC in session

    jim

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    Default Re: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

    The greatest "meter" is when, your senses are more acute, the world is brighter, more colorful and clear, taste is magnified, sight is fully focused, hearing is intensified, feeling is awesome, sex is better, your skin is softer, hair is richer, sleep is restful and you need less of it...and the mind is clearer as the synapses actually rewire themselves, hormones rebalance, insights flood the mind, old beliefs disappear and are transmuted, destructive habits disappear, the ego vanishes, compassion and empathy arises, the subtle psychic senses arise and are noticed...

    AND this is just by clearing the first chakra survival issues! Just think how great it would be to be a fully charged and electrified soul in a body...travel into the etheric and astral any time you want, see anything in your minds eye, think a thought and actually create it right in front of you?

    This is all possible.
    Last edited by gripreaper; 24th May 2013 at 14:57.
    "Lay Down Your Truth and Check Your Weapons
    The Next Voice You Hear Will Be Your OWN"
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    Default Re: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

    Quote Posted by hohoemi (here)
    Quote Posted by bram (here)
    [..cut..]
    Now, if we accept that we have engrams from past lives, this leads to a further two possibilities: either:

    (a) that we have a ‘soul’ which continues in this body from life to life, taking with it the results of actions performed in previous lives which may be called karma, including engrams, further adding to this karma by our actions in our current life, or
    (b) that our engrams are passed to us genetically by our parents in cellular form in the zygote. [..cut..] Therefore either (i) our engram load is increasing continuously and has done so for thousands (millions?) of years, placing us in possession of millions of unresolved engrams, or (ii) engrams have a finite life, and tend to fade with the passage of time.
    [..cut..]
    Hi Bram,

    I don't know about Scientology, but your question reminded me of Holographic Kinetics by Steve Richards (discussed elsewhere on the forum), so here's his answer in case your interested in correlating different practices:

    If they are talking about the same thing - in HK you among other things also look at issues that caused pain in this/past lives and blow that of your timeline - the engrams would come BOTH:
    - from your own soul/spirit timeline indefinitley, and
    - from your ancestors down to the seventh generation. (At least when I did a session only issues up to 7 generations down the timeline were considered, so I think that's it). No idea where that cut-off time comes from though

    Thanks for your thought-provoking questions, I never considered how these things might multiply if there was no cut-off date... I hope HK is right and there IS a cut-off date, otherwise the accummulation would be astronomical.

    From what I understand, the part of Holographic Kinetics that works is all based on Dianetics, repackaged in a slightly different format.

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  30. Link to Post #176
    United States Avalon Member
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    Default Re: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

    Quote Posted by gripreaper (here)
    The greatest "meter" is when, your senses are more acute, the world is brighter, more colorful and clear, taste is magnified, sight is fully focused, hearing is intensified, feeling is awesome, sex is better, your skin is softer, hair is richer, sleep is restful and you need less of it...and the mind is clearer as the synapses actually rewire themselves, hormones rebalance, insights flood the mind, old beliefs disappear and are transmuted, destructive habits disappear, the ego vanishes, compassion and empathy arises, the subtle psychic senses arise and are noticed...

    AND this is just by clearing the first chakra survival issues! Just think how great it would be to be a fully charged and electrified soul in a body...travel into the etheric and astral any time you want, see anything in your minds eye, think a thought and actually create it right in front of you?

    This is all possible.
    yes I was just starting to read about chakras but ... I ended up here ,,, would be nice to align them and get out of the body so I can see what I am doing

    jim

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  32. Link to Post #177
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    Default Re: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by jiminii (here)
    you can download a meter to run on the PC from free zone
    Translation:

    Here Jim means a 'virtual' meter, that runs on a computer screen on Windows.

    http://freezoneearth.org/allmeters

    (Never tried or used, it, as I have a Mac.)
    Hi Bill, I might be wrong, but all I am seeing is E-meters for sale. Am I missing something?
    Last edited by Limor Wolf; 24th May 2013 at 15:43.

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  34. Link to Post #178
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    Default Re: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

    Quote Posted by WEAREONE (here)
    The bottom of my post is a smaller edited copy and paste of the threads I have been reading in the LRH (L. Ron Hubbard) thread. To keep it quick and to the point I copied and pasted the more unbelievable ideas that have caused me to not be able to fully embrace the message. UNFORTUNATELY, the message is so far out from my paradigm that I can't understand the message "JIM" is sharing.

    It appears others more familiar and learned in this subject find the "Jim" message as not too far out and are able to tolerate the sometimes jumbled message. Also, the numerous use of acronyms and insider slang has made it difficult to understand for begginers in the subject. I think it is unfortunate many on Avalon seem to not be able to see that the tools in Scientology can be beneficial, it seems as though many can not differentiate the Church/Religion/Cult with the tools. How can we not think bieng "Clear" is not a good thing for all people. From Wiki-- Clear in Dianetics and Scientology is one of two levels a practitioner can achieve on the way to personal salvation. A state of Clear is reached when a person becomes free of the influence of engrams, unwanted emotions or painful traumas not readily available to the conscious mind. Scientologists believe that human beings accumulate anxieties, psychosomatic illnesses, and aberration due to receiving engrams throughout their lives. By applying dianetics, every single person can reach Clear....Sounds good to me, I want to be clear.

    It would help me greatly if we can have links to websites that can teach the tools, suggestions of books to read, websites to visit, youtube videos to watch, etc And perhaps the most beneficial thing is to condense all this info into one post as you did so well with the "Essential reading for all Avalonians post". It would be a good way to allow interested people to have access to the benefits and in a way weed through all the noise. Thanks again to you and all the Mods and fellow Avalonian members who keep this forum moving along.



    80 trillion years ago there was a group of people call the peace bringers ... they were so powerful that everywhere they went they brought peace .. There was another group that were war mongers ... and they were a bit of trouble but the peace bringers thought that could train them and maybe they would change to the better ... but these war mongers decided to infiltrate and steal the tech and use is to try to take over the system ... and many wars happened


    We are on a prison planet ... it took them billions of years to create this ... NO ONE ESCAPES from a prison planet ... NO ONE until Siddhartha Gautama Buddha did 2500 years ago ... any religion that tells you that you have no power and only god has power and any other power is the devil will never get you off this planet
    it takes a being with a lot of power to get off this planet ... and giving all your power to a god that someone says exists isn't going to get you off the planet
    .

    these are control religions ... I went back to see Christ on the Cross .. and started running the session myself using the class 8 auditor and her meter to do it.

    I got back there ... Christ looked like he was in a very lot of pain ... I decided to go inside his body and see what was happening and a force a very big force was hitting me when I was in his body .. it was too much and I could not stay inside the body .. I got out and I saw a huge oval of gold light in front of him ... I thought he was making it .... I followed the light into the sky and it was a UFO ... and that UFO was hitting Christ with some kind of beam ... and it was flooding the crowd with pictures to create a future dark age ... I yelled ... it was a trick ... it was a trick ... it was a trick ...


    by the way ... the force fields that trapped us to this planet have been removed ... by the andromedians . ... if you die this time you can go home ... where ;ever that was .... so future?? ... i am staying here ... this place will be the new beginning for the entire universe and when it is safe for them to come down they will teach us and we will be new light of this universe ... why because we were the gods they sent here and to them we are still looked at as royalty and they are trying to free us
    Thanks for putting it as clear as you did. Many of us are on the same page as you are.

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  36. Link to Post #179
    United States Avalon Member
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    Default Re: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by hohoemi (here)
    Quote Posted by bram (here)
    [..cut..]
    Now, if we accept that we have engrams from past lives, this leads to a further two possibilities: either:

    (a) that we have a ‘soul’ which continues in this body from life to life, taking with it the results of actions performed in previous lives which may be called karma, including engrams, further adding to this karma by our actions in our current life, or
    (b) that our engrams are passed to us genetically by our parents in cellular form in the zygote. [..cut..] Therefore either (i) our engram load is increasing continuously and has done so for thousands (millions?) of years, placing us in possession of millions of unresolved engrams, or (ii) engrams have a finite life, and tend to fade with the passage of time.
    [..cut..]
    Hi Bram,

    I don't know about Scientology, but your question reminded me of Holographic Kinetics by Steve Richards (discussed elsewhere on the forum), so here's his answer in case your interested in correlating different practices:

    If they are talking about the same thing - in HK you among other things also look at issues that caused pain in this/past lives and blow that of your timeline - the engrams would come BOTH:
    - from your own soul/spirit timeline indefinitley, and
    - from your ancestors down to the seventh generation. (At least when I did a session only issues up to 7 generations down the timeline were considered, so I think that's it). No idea where that cut-off time comes from though

    Thanks for your thought-provoking questions, I never considered how these things might multiply if there was no cut-off date... I hope HK is right and there IS a cut-off date, otherwise the accummulation would be astronomical.

    From what I understand, the part of Holographic Kinetics that works is all based on Dianetics, repackaged in a slightly different format.
    if you are a natural clear you don't have engrams
    if you do then you acquired them in this lifetime .and it would be the GE that would have recorded them .. natural clears don't record pictures, they just KNOW .... means you are a star child from the future with no automatic record mechanism ... you need a recording mechanism attached to the viewpoint (thetan the I AM that runs the body) to store engrams ... the only thing that can hit you from the past is pictures you recorded ... if you don't have these pictures they can't effect your life

    jim

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  38. Link to Post #180
    United States Avalon Member
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    Default Re: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

    Quote Posted by Camilo (here)
    Quote Posted by WEAREONE (here)
    The bottom of my post is a smaller edited copy and paste of the threads I have been reading in the LRH (L. Ron Hubbard) thread. To keep it quick and to the point I copied and pasted the more unbelievable ideas that have caused me to not be able to fully embrace the message. UNFORTUNATELY, the message is so far out from my paradigm that I can't understand the message "JIM" is sharing.

    It appears others more familiar and learned in this subject find the "Jim" message as not too far out and are able to tolerate the sometimes jumbled message. Also, the numerous use of acronyms and insider slang has made it difficult to understand for begginers in the subject. I think it is unfortunate many on Avalon seem to not be able to see that the tools in Scientology can be beneficial, it seems as though many can not differentiate the Church/Religion/Cult with the tools. How can we not think bieng "Clear" is not a good thing for all people. From Wiki-- Clear in Dianetics and Scientology is one of two levels a practitioner can achieve on the way to personal salvation. A state of Clear is reached when a person becomes free of the influence of engrams, unwanted emotions or painful traumas not readily available to the conscious mind. Scientologists believe that human beings accumulate anxieties, psychosomatic illnesses, and aberration due to receiving engrams throughout their lives. By applying dianetics, every single person can reach Clear....Sounds good to me, I want to be clear.

    It would help me greatly if we can have links to websites that can teach the tools, suggestions of books to read, websites to visit, youtube videos to watch, etc And perhaps the most beneficial thing is to condense all this info into one post as you did so well with the "Essential reading for all Avalonians post". It would be a good way to allow interested people to have access to the benefits and in a way weed through all the noise. Thanks again to you and all the Mods and fellow Avalonian members who keep this forum moving along.



    80 trillion years ago there was a group of people call the peace bringers ... they were so powerful that everywhere they went they brought peace .. There was another group that were war mongers ... and they were a bit of trouble but the peace bringers thought that could train them and maybe they would change to the better ... but these war mongers decided to infiltrate and steal the tech and use is to try to take over the system ... and many wars happened


    We are on a prison planet ... it took them billions of years to create this ... NO ONE ESCAPES from a prison planet ... NO ONE until Siddhartha Gautama Buddha did 2500 years ago ... any religion that tells you that you have no power and only god has power and any other power is the devil will never get you off this planet
    it takes a being with a lot of power to get off this planet ... and giving all your power to a god that someone says exists isn't going to get you off the planet
    .

    these are control religions ... I went back to see Christ on the Cross .. and started running the session myself using the class 8 auditor and her meter to do it.

    I got back there ... Christ looked like he was in a very lot of pain ... I decided to go inside his body and see what was happening and a force a very big force was hitting me when I was in his body .. it was too much and I could not stay inside the body .. I got out and I saw a huge oval of gold light in front of him ... I thought he was making it .... I followed the light into the sky and it was a UFO ... and that UFO was hitting Christ with some kind of beam ... and it was flooding the crowd with pictures to create a future dark age ... I yelled ... it was a trick ... it was a trick ... it was a trick ...


    by the way ... the force fields that trapped us to this planet have been removed ... by the andromedians . ... if you die this time you can go home ... where ;ever that was .... so future?? ... i am staying here ... this place will be the new beginning for the entire universe and when it is safe for them to come down they will teach us and we will be new light of this universe ... why because we were the gods they sent here and to them we are still looked at as royalty and they are trying to free us
    Thanks for putting it as clear as you did. Many of us are on the same page as you are.
    actually I would like to clean up all my post too ... there are so many ... if I can collect them into one .. but then the answering of questions but going through my whole track isn't going to answer all the questions .. it will give it all but really not all ... i already saw that from the questions .. telling a history doesn't answer all the questions ... but if we came up with a list of questions that are already asked .. then I can go through all of them at a time and clean it up ,,, I see you people know how to get parts out of the post and not the whole post ... but I don't know how to do that yet

    need someone to teach me ... let the site keep going while I learn it ., and only answer the most important posts

    jim

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