The First Sin Was Making This Stuff Important

[jiminii]

Back There where we were just a broken piece off the Main body of Theta (static perpetual motion space time energy creator) .. we could create anything ... put a star there the size of any size and just spin it around and show someone what we made ... and maybe they just learned how to make a drum sound .. so everything was considerations ... and we kept creating this stuff until we start to create a perpetual space time energy creation and how did we do this ... we learned we can make things persist by moving them continuously ...so this means some kind of Time must be added to do this ... so we are still operating on Considerations ... we can make this stuff as fast as we can create it out of nothing and add some new things to it ... gravity, light, all the elements .. and work it ... but we are still are creating this out of considerations, ours and others ... then somewhere along the line where some of us became less able to create this stuff out of nothing ... so this stuff started to be IMPORTANT ... Wow .. where does this come from??? it comes from losing abilities and making this stuff (planets stars automobiles pizza) more and more important ... and the more we do this the more this stuff becomes solid ... to where it is controlling us .. not we are controlling it ... Postulates and considerations in the beginning was what we had ... endless possibilities ... and now this stuff is Soooooo solid we can't even remember we created it ... (after they knocked out our memory to trap us here) ... so what we have here is varying degrees of importance ... I could not travel and live with the people and get into all the cultures if I made this stuff important ... because If I built up a business that allowed me to travel, the business and cars, and taxes, and this stuff I acquired would be TOO important to allow me to go do my thing and be free to change my mind about anything on the whim ... I love the idea of American Indian ... can just make something simple ... a teepee .tent .. minimum clothes and just go live in nature. well .. can't have TV's and Computers .. can you? ... well I think you can ... I see this Eaglespirit can just take off and go do what is important to him ... and what is important to him is life and friends and family and freedom ... he doesn't make this stuff important .. only enough of it ... to keep him free to roam and create the life and love and ability to wake up to the higher spiritual realities ...
so I believe our first sin was making this stuff important

jim

[donk]

Nice post...I usually have a hard time connecting with your posts but this one really got me!

I would add that with the "importance" coming into play, so did the concept of ownership, the "value" we created and attached to the importance of "things"... or even ideas. We lie ourselves into believing we own our possessions (& minds), when more than not, it is the other way around...

[jiminii]

well ... I'm on the other side of the planet .. I guess by the time I write a post it is covered up by another 50 posts after me

him... how do I fix that???

[jiminii]

Posted by donk (here)
Nice post...I usually have a hard time connecting with your posts but this one really got me!

I would add that with the "importance" coming into play, so did the concept of ownership, the "value" we created and attached to the importance of "things"... or even ideas. We lie ourselves into believing we own our possessions (& minds), when more than not, it is the other way around...

the thing is this ... considerations and postulates are senior to all physical universe mechanics ... so we become the affect of our own creations and others .. by making this MEST (matter energy space and time) universe more important than we are ,..

our thoughts and considerations and postulates are the most senior because they are what we used to create this place ... now we think this place is creating us .. it is reversed

we get better control and more power by being ourselves .. and making our postulates and considerations senior to this stuff ... that doesn't mean you should not own anything .. but in my case .. I had to sell stuff so I could leave to another country .. couldn't take it with me...

so by making the stuff less important ... My considerations let me arrive to my destinations ,.. I can always buy the stuff again ,... and would be even faster and newer (like laptops)
hahaha

be balanced ... in my case .. I find getting friends somewhere else I can leave my stuff there ... and return for it in the future .. but not always ... because different countries I need to make new GOOO FRIENDS .. hahahah

and another thing .. just having that stuff somewhere else kind of attaches you to that place ... and cuts into your freedom .. in case you would go another place ,.. if I had a job as a writer .. maybe I would be able to be anywhere and take my stuff with me too ... but I find it more interesting to just give it away ... to the one who needs it .. and find newer and better stuff where I am going ...

this makes me more cause over my life and freedom ... my family???? well everyone of them lost their homes to the banks ... because in a 30 year loan the banks will do something like 'stop all loans to housing" to start the vietnam war ... and this broke my father ... all those contractors had loans on all the houses and lumber ... and he is getting an average of 3 bankrutcys a week .. and he being honest used his own money to pay off his debts .. but lost a lot in the process ... which was ok .. he bought a half mile by half mile farm on the top of the Rockies next to the unita mountains .. and we lived with the indians ... not bad for losing your shirt ...

eh ???? (jezzz ,, I'm laughing at all of it )

jim

[conk]

Ok oldtimer ( I can call you that, as I am "only" 61....) what do you study? Your info is so interesting. I've never heard Source called Theta, if indeed that is what you are referring to.

[johnf]

It is hard for me not to go back to the factors, when I read about the real basic ideas in this stuff. I read through the axiom stuff you posted last night Jim, and it got me thinking, or unthinking, a lot of that was about the factors.
Now there is this idea of importances.
Here is a post on another forum that contains the factors.

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthrea...logy-s-Genesis

Importance is put on stuff by us, and in order to make stuff solid, real, intense, we had to, imagine (a less charged word than lie),
these inversions of what was important.
These are just some raw thoughts about after this excellent exchange between Jimini and Donk, above.

Pure being is important, the cause became more important.(Crazy idea here that they are different, but they feel different to me)
The veiwpoint is like a harmonic of pure static (Pure Being), but there is a high premium of over looking the poor lil dood, because to really spot a source to something at the higher levels makes the whole thing go poof.
and then after there is light, universes, all this great happy stuff, we had the idea that the veiwpoint can perish.
After the whole we can die thing we make up all sorts of importances about death, and how we can't take stuff with us etc. (you can't but you can allways recreate stuff)
There isn't a real explanation for what level this happened at.
Maybe you someone else has had this discussion about what the progression might have been?

Importances though are veddy important indeed!

jf

[johnf]

And ownership too, Thanks Donk.
Ownership comes before the invention of death, dun, dun dun.

jf

[donk]

Posted by johnf (here)
And ownership too, Thanks Donk.
Ownership comes before the invention of death, dun, dun dun.

jf

Only if you make them (death, ownership) important!! Experience (life, freedom) is all that "matters"

[jiminii]

Posted by conk (here)
Ok oldtimer ( I can call you that, as I am "only" 61....) what do you study? Your info is so interesting. I've never heard Source called Theta, if indeed that is what you are referring to.

it comes from the works of L Ron Hubbard

jim

[jiminii]

Posted by johnf (here)
It is hard for me not to go back to the factors, when I read about the real basic ideas in this stuff. I read through the axiom stuff you posted last night Jim, and it got me thinking, or unthinking, a lot of that was about the factors.
Now there is this idea of importances.
Here is a post on another forum that contains the factors.

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthrea...logy-s-Genesis

Importance is put on stuff by us, and in order to make stuff solid, real, intense, we had to, imagine (a less charged word than lie),
these inversions of what was important.
These are just some raw thoughts about after this excellent exchange between Jimini and Donk, above.

Pure being is important, the cause became more important.(Crazy idea here that they are different, but they feel different to me)
The veiwpoint is like a harmonic of pure static (Pure Being), but there is a high premium of over looking the poor lil dood, because to really spot a source to something at the higher levels makes the whole thing go poof.
and then after there is light, universes, all this great happy stuff, we had the idea that the veiwpoint can perish.
After the whole we can die thing we make up all sorts of importances about death, and how we can't take stuff with us etc. (you can't but you can allways recreate stuff)
There isn't a real explanation for what level this happened at.
Maybe you someone else has had this discussion about what the progression might have been?

Importances though are veddy important indeed!

jf

I am speaking from my own experience .... what I found was this .... I am suppose to agree ... if I get into scientology .. I must agree or I could be put in ethics .. the same with living in USA ... and any other part of this world ... but ... we are the creators .. we win when we disagree ... people say " you can't change the weather" and then when I change it by disagreeing to it ... then I win ... the physical universe tries to force you into to agreeing with it ... the more we agree the more we are trapped ... I can say from experience ... there is a lot of impingement scientology will use to force agreement .. like if I leave .. I can be put in a condition where I will not be allowed back .. and they will use all this impingement like "you will be losing your life because we have the only tech to freedom for the next trillion trillion years) ... so I broke those agreements ... why ... because I know how powerful I am ... and they need me more than I need them ... and in fact I can't operate if I can't change it ... and that means I have to be willing to lose my life .. (like they would say ... if I don't agree I am taking a chance of losing my life for eternity .. claiming they have the only answer to eternity) .. but I was right ... after all these years ... I believed in myself .. I knew I wasn't trapped to this prison and could leave .. without this freedom to make the decisions I had to make ... I couldn't have even opened up these abilities in their eyes to see for a fact .. what they have been trying to obtain as a being ... I came in already having that what they were trying to obtain ....

sounds complicated ... but most religions have their catches ... you will go to a fictitious hell created by the priest in the days of constintine to put in the persian ideas of heaven and hell .. so they can control the people .... i have to make my own choices .... whether i live with them or die from them ...

I will not be a slave to anyones ideology ... I will look and see what works for me

that is what I do

jim

[donk]

... then I win ... the physical universe tries to force you into to agreeing with it ...

Isn't "winning" making something "important"? I don't think we should be "fighting" the physical universe, and I'm not certain I would agree that it is trying to win...but we perpetuate the limitations (of physicality) by engaging in battles or tug-of-wars or need for agreement.

There are a few ideas that seem to transcend that paradigm (or maybe just one), unconditional love...and all that implies. It doesn't need you to think it is important, it can JUST BE, no matter what we think...

[johnf]

Posted by jiminii (here)

Posted by johnf (here)
It is hard for me not to go back to the factors, when I read about the real basic ideas in this stuff. I read through the axiom stuff you posted last night Jim, and it got me thinking, or unthinking, a lot of that was about the factors.
Now there is this idea of importances.
Here is a post on another forum that contains the factors.

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthrea...logy-s-Genesis

Importance is put on stuff by us, and in order to make stuff solid, real, intense, we had to, imagine (a less charged word than lie),
these inversions of what was important.
These are just some raw thoughts about after this excellent exchange between Jimini and Donk, above.

Pure being is important, the cause became more important.(Crazy idea here that they are different, but they feel different to me)
The veiwpoint is like a harmonic of pure static (Pure Being), but there is a high premium of over looking the poor lil dood, because to really spot a source to something at the higher levels makes the whole thing go poof.
and then after there is light, universes, all this great happy stuff, we had the idea that the veiwpoint can perish.
After the whole we can die thing we make up all sorts of importances about death, and how we can't take stuff with us etc. (you can't but you can allways recreate stuff)
There isn't a real explanation for what level this happened at.
Maybe you someone else has had this discussion about what the progression might have been?

Importances though are veddy important indeed!

jf

I am speaking from my own experience .... what I found was this .... I am suppose to agree ... if I get into scientology .. I must agree or I could be put in ethics .. the same with living in USA ... and any other part of this world ... but ... we are the creators .. we win when we disagree ... people say " you can't change the weather" and then when I change it by disagreeing to it ... then I win ... the physical universe tries to force you into to agreeing with it ... the more we agree the more we are trapped ... I can say from experience ... there is a lot of impingement scientology will use to force agreement .. like if I leave .. I can be put in a condition where I will not be allowed back .. and they will use all this impingement like "you will be losing your life because we have the only tech to freedom for the next trillion trillion years) ... so I broke those agreements ... why ... because I know how powerful I am ... and they need me more than I need them ... and in fact I can't operate if I can't change it ... and that means I have to be willing to lose my life .. (like they would say ... if I don't agree I am taking a chance of losing my life for eternity .. claiming they have the only answer to eternity) .. but I was right ... after all these years ... I believed in myself .. I knew I wasn't trapped to this prison and could leave .. without this freedom to make the decisions I had to make ... I couldn't have even opened up these abilities in their eyes to see for a fact .. what they have been trying to obtain as a being ... I came in already having that what they were trying to obtain ....

sounds complicated ... but most religions have their catches ... you will go to a fictitious hell created by the priest in the days of constintine to put in the persian ideas of heaven and hell .. so they can control the people .... i have to make my own choices .... whether i live with them or die from them ...

I will not be a slave to anyones ideology ... I will look and see what works for me

that is what I do

jim

Well can we zero in on the process you go through?
You say you disagree, can you spot if you are actually duplicating the underlying considerations?
There is the whole counter creating an isness will just solidify it.
I have pretty much given up on it , and just concentrate on feeling as deeply as I can what is going on, including what I think I want out of a situation.
Occasionally I seem to lose false identities doing this.

Blowing charge and laughing out loud seem to be the only useful parts of this so far.

jf

[jiminii]

Posted by donk (here)

... then I win ... the physical universe tries to force you into to agreeing with it ...

Isn't "winning" making something "important"? I don't think we should be "fighting" the physical universe, and I'm not certain I would agree that it is trying to win...but we perpetuate the limitations (of physicality) by engaging in battles or tug-of-wars or need for agreement.

There are a few ideas that seem to transcend that paradigm (or maybe just one), unconditional love...and all that implies. It doesn't need you to think it is important, it can JUST BE, no matter what we think...

what I mean by win is that I free myself from more lies that keep me here ... like ..many of you will try to disagree with being trapped in the body and will do all these methods used by others to get OUT of your body spiritually .. this gives you much more awareness of yourself and frees you from the bondage of only being in a body .. now .. they setup the planet to be a prison with every trick in the book they have created for billions of years ... (as to just 50 years or 100 ..here how fast did our technology advance) .. and escaping from a prison like this ???? if we don't disagree to this entrapment we can't free our self ... this is what those big beings like Metteyya had to decide 50,000 years ago .. to find a way to free our friends from these prisons created by low life to trap us ... so as Siddhartha Gautama (Buddha) became the first to free himself from this planet ... of course we used tricks ... we had to ... we had Gautama here trying to free from this prison while another Gautama is in another body in the stars .. guiding him .... but we did find a way and that way was and still is .. getting you free from the body ... Out Of Body is the entire thing ... that is what takes the Buddhist 15 years to do ... and you obtain a key'd out clear ... means you have destimulated the charge that locked him in the body ... has NOTHING TO DO WITH .. the philosophy ... just that one thing .... started it all .. we had found a way to get people free .. so from the time of Gautama we studied and tested how we can do this and bring this tech back to this planet .. and free everyone ... it was done on 2 planets ... base 1 and base 2 ... both were prison planets ... base 2 (which is in the future is really base 1) had already succeeded and is sending missions all over this universe now ... this one (is really base 2 but the call it base 1) ... actually we are doing a rerun .. this could be base 1 since base 2 is in the future ...

ok anyway both bases 1 and 2 are in the future ... but we are rerunning this base again ...

by disagreeing we are finding ways to salvage this sector of the universe that is like a desert

we are doing it

jim

[johnf]

Posted by donk (here)

... then I win ... the physical universe tries to force you into to agreeing with it ...

Isn't "winning" making something "important"? I don't think we should be "fighting" the physical universe, and I'm not certain I would agree that it is trying to win...but we perpetuate the limitations (of physicality) by engaging in battles or tug-of-wars or need for agreement.

There are a few ideas that seem to transcend that paradigm (or maybe just one), unconditional love...and all that implies. It doesn't need you to think it is important, it can JUST BE, no matter what we think...

Factors again
14 Many dimension points combine into larger gases, fluids or solids. Thus there is matter. But the most valued point is admiration, and admiration is so strong its absence alone permits persistence.

There was a whole class of processes based on admiration.
According to one guy I talked with a lot he was able to alleviate anything by admiring it.
Maybe unconditional love is admiration, till you add a desire for outcome in there.
The unfindable inquiry stuff talks about this alot.
Just look at it and see if you can find it, anything else that comes up is a distraction so you just look through that too.
I like that activity a lot because it remeinds me to look at the conditions I am secretly putting on stuff.

jf

[donk]

Posted by johnf (here)

Posted by donk (here)

... then I win ... the physical universe tries to force you into to agreeing with it ...

Isn't "winning" making something "important"? I don't think we should be "fighting" the physical universe, and I'm not certain I would agree that it is trying to win...but we perpetuate the limitations (of physicality) by engaging in battles or tug-of-wars or need for agreement.

There are a few ideas that seem to transcend that paradigm (or maybe just one), unconditional love...and all that implies. It doesn't need you to think it is important, it can JUST BE, no matter what we think...

Factors again
14 Many dimension points combine into larger gases, fluids or solids. Thus there is matter. But the most valued point is admiration, and admiration is so strong its absence alone permits persistence.

There was a whole class of processes based on admiration.
According to one guy I talked with a lot he was able to alleviate anything by admiring it.
Maybe unconditional love is admiration, till you add a desire for outcome in there.
The unfindable inquiry stuff talks about this alot.
Just look at it and see if you can find it, anything else that comes up is a distraction so you just look through that too.
I like that activity a lot because it remeinds me to look at the conditions I am secretly putting on stuff.

jf

OK, I'm struggling to "admire" your post, so the search for meaning of it persists (for me). Care to indulge me with a few more nuggets to chew on?

[johnf]

It says the most valued point is admiration.
I am trying to brainstorm on what that is ,
and I see a definite connection to it, and unconditional love.

jf

[johnf]

I am contemplating admiration as the energy of undoing, and not doing, if that helps.

jf

[Billy]

Posted by jiminii (here)
so this stuff started to be IMPORTANT ... Wow .. where does this come from???

so I believe our first sin was making this stuff important

jim

Posted by donk (here)
Nice post...I usually have a hard time connecting with your posts but this one really got me!

I would add that with the "importance" coming into play, so did the concept of ownership, the "value" we created and attached to the importance of "things"... or even ideas. We lie ourselves into believing we own our possessions (& minds), when more than not, it is the other way around...

I agree that it is the attachment to the importance of the stuff that we created that is the issue.

Not the stuff we created or even the importance of that stuff.

But our emotional attachment to the importance of the stuff.

But Jim is saying the same when he said "our first sin was making this stuff important"

When we make something important we have become attached to the importance.

Does that make sense

[johnf]

I found the mention of freedom from the body very interesting.
Especially in the light of this importance being such a tricky thing, discussion.
My "obe" experiences are of the no physicality type, I don't see the room my body is in , or any part of the physical universe.
however the very last one of these I had were an experience of KNOWING I was in an infinite space, with very little sense of self.
But I saw a large face, that looked like mine, very menacing, and I knew that was what was keeping me from just going off into infinity, and not coming back.

So the stuff behind the body,(and behind any energy body that one might experience) we are still hanging on to, haven't resolved, maybe projects left incomplete, and misassigned importances, and ownership, are the real things to look at that will change EVERYTHING.

The point Billyji makes about our MAKING it important is a very important point(omg).

The forum format is a little frustrating it would be really cool if we got this voip program up and running.
I really think we would have some interesting results in a voice group on THIS subject.

I wish we had a resident TAOist type to further help blow the word barriers here.
Taoism seems to come close to the factors and axioms, it is the basic ideas behind their practices(in my poor understanding of Taoism).

jf

[jiminii]

Posted by johnf (here)
I found the mention of freedom from the body very interesting.
Especially in the light of this importance being such a tricky thing, discussion.
My "obe" experiences are of the no physicality type, I don't see the room my body is in , or any part of the physical universe.
however the very last one of these I had were an experience of KNOWING I was in an infinite space, with very little sense of self.
But I saw a large face, that looked like mine, very menacing, and I knew that was what was keeping me from just going off into infinity, and not coming back.

So the stuff behind the body,(and behind any energy body that one might experience) we are still hanging on to, haven't resolved, maybe projects left incomplete, and misassigned importances, and ownership, are the real things to look at that will change EVERYTHING.

The point Billyji makes about our MAKING it important is a very important point(omg).

The forum format is a little frustrating it would be really cool if we got this voip program up and running.
I really think we would have some interesting results in a voice group on THIS subject.

I wish we had a resident TAOist type to further help blow the word barriers here.
Taoism seems to come close to the factors and axioms, it is the basic ideas behind their practices(in my poor understanding of Taoism).

jf

well just getting free from the body doesn't complete it ... because if you are a cannibal .. you will become a much more powerful cannibal ... hahaha

well back to here (had to sleep) ..

so part of the processes is getting rid of all the stuff that got you here ,... all your disagreements ... that is what reads on a meter ...

because since Buddha ... the technology for entrapment became more worked ... into their systems ,.

so I suppose if you really want to be free you have to concentrate on a spot outside earth and decide to be there .. but how much protection would you have in the stars ... ????

if you don't have a group to go with you ... it won't be long before you are back here ,...

so the things that read on a meter ... will be the spirit beings disagreements ... the things he should have done ,,, will read .. the things he shouldn't have done will read

when you run them all out ,.. (don't recommend you go to Church of Scientology ... it has been infiltrated by the mob, cabal, elite for money only .. not only is is expensive .. they make it hard to complete anything soon ,.. they want to pull every dime anyone has forever) ... so you can download all the tech from the freezone .. and learn it yourself ...

if you could let go ... of all these disagreements .... .. just let them go .. don't make them important ... and just free yourself from this automatic recording mechanism ... you could be free ...

jim