GM food - is it really a problem?

[blufire]

Posted by Sidney (here)
I have merged the "GM Foods, are they really a problem" thread, with this one.

I object strongly to the other thread being merged with mine. They are in no way compatible. Please remove all related posts to another gmo thread that is similar in content.

Unless of course merging this thread with mine has other motives.

[ThePythonicCow]

Posted by blufire (here)

Posted by Sidney (here)
I have merged the "GM Foods, are they really a problem" thread, with this one.

I object strongly to the other thread being merged with mine. They are in no way compatible. Please remove all related posts to another gmo thread that is similar in content.

Unless of course merging this thread with mine has other motives.

I moved all posts that had been made today on the merged thread back to this separate "GM food - is it really a problem?" thread.

This reverse merge wasn't perfectly clean, as perhaps a few posts fit better on your original Personal, controversial view of Monsanto, Globalists and Technology, but it seemed close enough.

[blufire]

Posted by Paul (here)

Posted by blufire (here)

Posted by Sidney (here)
I have merged the "GM Foods, are they really a problem" thread, with this one.

I object strongly to the other thread being merged with mine. They are in no
I
way compatible. Please remove all related posts to another gmo thread that is similar in content.

Unless of course merging this thread with mine has other motives.

I moved all posts that had been made today on the merged thread back to this separate "GM food - is it really a problem?" thread.

This reverse merge wasn't perfectly clean, as perhaps a few posts fit better on your original Personal, controversial view of Monsanto, Globalists and Technology, but it seemed close enough.

Thank you Paul.

[Sidney]

Posted by blufire (here)

Posted by Sidney (here)
I have merged the "GM Foods, are they really a problem" thread, with this one.

I object strongly to the other thread being merged with mine. They are in no way compatible. Please remove all related posts to another gmo thread that is similar in content.

Unless of course merging this thread with mine has other motives.

I see this was already taken care of. I assure you Bluefire, my only motive was to tidy up the forum, as it appeared to me the SAME subject matter was in both threads. Your accusation was not necessary, and since I am a moderator in training, I think you COULD have given me the benefit of the doubt. Peace

[conk]

Here's a tasty bit, GMOs radically alter the DNA of our gut bacteria. Probably THE single most important aspect of our health, being compromised. Just one note in a whole songbook.

[Octavusprime]

I will give my take on this subject although I know I will probably get flogged for it. Just as a preface I graduated with a degree in plant breeding and genetics from a reputable AG school that I shall not name.

The OP is quite correct in that humans have been modifying the genomes of plants and animals for thousands of years. Often without knowing it.

This was and is important for civilization and for the plants themselves. We need food to support our population that can resist draught, resists pests and diseases as well as bear fruitful bounties of delicious food. The plant also benefits by being propagated thus ensuring the survival of its species. In fact in some ways the plants are using us for their own means, which is dispersion and proliferation. Symbiotic relationship in its truest form.

Genetically modified food is not inherently dangerous or harmful IF done responsibly. In essence you are inserting DNA that expresses a protein. For this reason the hatred towards all GMO foods is ridiculous IMO. We aren't playing God but as with all technologies it takes careful considerations to ensure we don't do more harm than good.

Technically one could find the gene or genes responsible for say hairy stems from one tomato plant that deters an insect pest and put it into another tomato cultivar that lacks this trait. I see nothing wrong with this. Normally that would take 8+ generations of crosses to find and then stabilize the hairy gene while still keeping the characteristics of the delicious cultivar.

Now if we want to talk about BT and Roundup ready GMOs, then I agree that these should not be used. BT is a toxin and is shown to be decimating our bees populations. Roundup ready plants introduce an herbicide to our diets which can't be healthy. Not to mention these are now cross pollinating and spreading into heirloom varieties.

So in my opinion GMO crops can be used as another weapon to provide food for our growing population. There needs to be tighter restrictions on what can be modified. Anything that puts toxins into our food should be banned.

Our biggest issue is the current monoculture agriculture system. It lacks diversity in species and cultivars which sets us up for large crop failure. See the Irish potato famine for an example. In order to keep up with demand we need to continue to evolve our crops and GMOs may have a roll.

Changes to the way we farm would have huge benefits to reducing pesticide and herbicide usage. Not to mention less water usage. 50 acres of a single species of corn, grown year after year in the same area destroys the soil and invites the proliferation of insects and diseases.

I could go on but this is slowly turning into a novel so I'll stop.

[Corncrake]

I have been following this thread and wanted to contribute but it is such an immense subject I have ended up deleting my posts because it is such an enormous topic. To start I am vegetarian, I forage and I grow some of my own food. I eat organic when I can but I realise we are an expanding population and that a large percentage of the world suffers from malnutrition. I believe that - with proper robust scientific study and transparency - there could be a place for GM foods. However, as the industry stands at the moment I wouldn't knowingly touch them. There are many corporations involved in research and production but the one I have investigated the most is Monsanto. It is all down to the integrity of the corporations promoting it. Monsanto's track record is awful. Just for starters examine what they did with recombinant bovine somatotropin (rBST). This artificial hormone was licensed for general use by the USFDA in 1993 after questionable research. When Monsanto tried to get it licensed in Canada six researchers rebelled saying they were being forced to approve it before its safety had been established. The licence was not approved and the researchers were later victimised. In animals treated with rBST mastitis has increased by 39% which has to be treated with large amounts of antibiotics which end up further down the food chain. There is much more to the story but this should suffice for starters. Similar stories abound with Monsanto's involvement with Aspartame.

Another point - just from an ethical point of view - Monsanto tried to patent a GM variety of Indian wheat. Farmers were not allowed to collect the seeds as they had done for generations but had to purchase them afresh from Monsanto each season. Farmers were killing themselves. This was made to sound like producing more food for the world whereas it was all about more profit for Monsanto. Check out Vandana Shiva and the wonderful work she has done on behalf of Indian farmers.

[Octavusprime]

I agree the current conglomerate Monsanto seems hell bent on pushing products regardless of the safety concerns.

I understand the desire to keep and make money over intellectual rights but damn. When I heard they were going after small farmers who's crops had unintentionally picked up "monsantos" gene due to cross pollination, I just about had a conniption.

Their poor form and horrendous PR destroys the chance of using GM products in truly great ways.

I got out of plant breeding long ago. Mostly due to the fact that people want round red tomatoes that ship well with high disease resistance. What you get is a hard bland fruit with little variety in the super market.

I dreamed of purple stripped tomatoes with amazing acidity and the flesh of a perfectly cooked filet mignon. But I digress..

[Another1]

Changes to the way we farm would have huge benefits to reducing pesticide and herbicide usage. Not to mention less water usage. 50 acres of a single species of corn, grown year after year in the same area destroys the soil and invites the proliferation of insects and diseases.

We were taught this stuff in grade school back in the 60s - they called it crop rotation back then.
It's funny to see how it's called a 'great idea' now and people should try it.
(That is the advice published in our local newspaper, small town Oklahoma last spring.)

[Octavusprime]

Posted by Another1 (here)

Changes to the way we farm would have huge benefits to reducing pesticide and herbicide usage. Not to mention less water usage. 50 acres of a single species of corn, grown year after year in the same area destroys the soil and invites the proliferation of insects and diseases.

We were taught this stuff in grade school back in the 60s - they called it crop rotation back then.
It's funny to see how it's called a 'great idea' now and people should try it.
(That is the advice published in our local newspaper, small town Oklahoma last spring.)

It's amazing how soon we forget the lessons of the past. Remember the dust bowl! This has been around for much longer than that even. Farmers still rotate crops and use fallow fields to replenish nitrogen in the soil but in many cases the amount of crops being rotated are few. I know one farm near me that has been planting corn in the same place for many years. They must be fertilizing heavily. No wonder our ground water is full of nitrates.

I was thinking more of mixed crop planting like the native americans used to do. The three sisters: Corn, squash and climbing beans. The corn provided a structure for the beans to climb. The beans provided nitrogen to the soil. The squash with its large leaves would block the ground from sunlight and naturally prevent weeds from growing as well as keep the soil moist.

Of course this makes harvesting by machine difficult but there must be creative ways that we can pack more into less area while at the same time reducing the herbacides, pesticides, fertilizers and water usage.

[Corncrake]

Remember the dust bowl! This has been around for much longer than that even. Farmers still rotate crops and use fallow fields to replenish nitrogen in the soil but in many cases the amount of crops being rotated are few.

I found this wonderful documentary called Green Gold on Nomadguy's Food Foresting thread - it demonstrates how 'dust bowl' areas and desertification can be re-greened.


https://youtube.com/watch?v=YBLZmwlPa8A

[Octavusprime]

Posted by Corncrake (here)
Remember the dust bowl! This has been around for much longer than that even. Farmers still rotate crops and use fallow fields to replenish nitrogen in the soil but in many cases the amount of crops being rotated are few.

I found this wonderful documentary called Green Gold on Nomadguy's Food Foresting thread - it demonstrates how 'dust bowl' areas and desertification can be re-greened.


https://youtube.com/watch?v=YBLZmwlPa8A

Amazing documentary. Thank you!

[Referee]

Quite simply yes the food is poison. I suppose if there were good people at the top It may be okay after time and a lot of open long term testing. However right now the have weaponized it. GM food has the ability to insert foreign DNA into our DNA, no Joke This is a part of the Trans-humanist agenda.

[Octavusprime]

Posted by Referee (here)
Quite simply yes the food is poison. I suppose if there were good people at the top It may be okay after time and a lot of open long term testing. However right now the have weaponized it. GM food has the ability to insert foreign DNA into our DNA, no Joke This is a part of the Trans-humanist agenda.

The thought that GMO foods can insert DNA into our DNA seems based in poor science and exaggerated to fit peoples agenda. Can you provide a link describing this phenomena from a technical perspective? What is the mechanism for the DNA transfer?

The following are my current understandings of how foreign DNA can get into us. Anytime DNA is inserted into the genome there is a small risk it can be inserted in the middle of a gene sequence thus disrupting it. However our body is generally good at detecting these "mutations" and correcting them.

It has been shown that the bacteria in our gut has the unique ability to pull DNA from it's environment (our food). This can happen with any food we eat. The chances that it will pull the recombinant DNA from a GMO food is equal to the chances it pulls non recombinant DNA. Now I agree if this gut bacteria happened to pull the gene for BT expression then we could possibly see a strain of gut bacteria evolve that starts spitting out BT toxin. That would be horrible.

It has been shown that virus' can also steal DNA and then insert it into our DNA. This has been going on for millions of years. Much of our DNA is actually viral DNA. The recombinant genes are in most cases not dangerous as they are just sequences of DNA that express a protein. As long as this protein does not cause harm to humans than we are not increasing a risk to humans.

Anyway, my stance is that not all GM foods are evil. Unfortunately the poor ethics of monsanto to put BT into our food has ruined the image of a revolutionary method of gene transfer. There is much disinformation against biotechnology but people have the right to raise concern about the food we eat.

These foods should have to be tested for efficacy just as drug manufactures have to go through rigorous drug trials before going to market.

My main point is that it is important to understand the protein or group of proteins that are being expressed. Testing and verification that these are safe for humans is essential. Adding toxins to our food source is very irresponsible but the science itself is not evil. Those corporations that put greed and money above public safety should be held accountable.

[william r sanford72]

this goes beyond greed.

[Octavusprime]

Posted by william r sanford72 (here)
this goes beyond greed.

Perhaps. I have no love for monsanto. They have bought out many a good biotech company and ended some great Science research just to keep their money making, dependency creating products going.

[Referee]

Posted by Octavusprime (here)

Posted by Referee (here)
Quite simply yes the food is poison. I suppose if there were good people at the top It may be okay after time and a lot of open long term testing. However right now the have weaponized it. GM food has the ability to insert foreign DNA into our DNA, no Joke This is a part of the Trans-humanist agenda.

The thought that GMO foods can insert DNA into our DNA seems based in poor science and exaggerated to fit peoples agenda. Can you provide a link describing this phenomena from a technical perspective? What is the mechanism for the DNA transfer?

The following are my current understandings of how foreign DNA can get into us. Anytime DNA is inserted into the genome there is a small risk it can be inserted in the middle of a gene sequence thus disrupting it. However our body is generally good at detecting these "mutations" and correcting them.

It has been shown that the bacteria in our gut has the unique ability to pull DNA from it's environment (our food). This can happen with any food we eat. The chances that it will pull the recombinant DNA from a GMO food is equal to the chances it pulls non recombinant DNA. Now I agree if this gut bacteria happened to pull the gene for BT expression then we could possibly see a strain of gut bacteria evolve that starts spitting out BT toxin. That would be horrible.

It has been shown that virus' can also steal DNA and then insert it into our DNA. This has been going on for millions of years. Much of our DNA is actually viral DNA. The recombinant genes are in most cases not dangerous as they are just sequences of DNA that express a protein. As long as this protein does not cause harm to humans than we are not increasing a risk to humans.

Anyway, my stance is that not all GM foods are evil. Unfortunately the poor ethics of monsanto to put BT into our food has ruined the image of a revolutionary method of gene transfer. There is much disinformation against biotechnology but people have the right to raise concern about the food we eat.

These foods should have to be tested for efficacy just as drug manufactures have to go through rigorous drug trials before going to market.

My main point is that it is important to understand the protein or group of proteins that are being expressed. Testing and verification that these are safe for humans is essential. Adding toxins to our food source is very irresponsible but the science itself is not evil. Those corporations that put greed and money above public safety should be held accountable.

Soory it took so long to get back to you been working a lot. Dr. Bill Deagle is one excellent source on this material. This is a good place to start not Deagle but an explination of what I am talking about here is a link. It is important to realize that we are dealing with breakaway technology. It is far out and advanced GM food is combined with ELF frequency from Gwen towers and Doppler stations, Chemtrails, Radiation, Word Alchemy and more and yes it has the ability to reprogram our DNA.

[161803398]

What I understand is that the way the herbicide works is that it targets a nutrient in the weed...say magnesium. That way the weed dies. If we consume the plant that has been sprayed then the magnesium in our bodies to some degree is being targeted as well and we might end up with a magnesium deficiency. Further, the herbicide targets the magnesium in the bodies of the little squigly things that live in the soil...killing them off as well and creating an imbalance in the soil. I understand that one little entity was found in soil that would normally be rare because it is kept in check by the other little soil entities...so rare that it was not known what it actually was. The last I heard it was this little soil being that got into the food and was responsible for causing sterility.

[Corncrake]

I recently came across this article regarding rBGH which supports my earlier post on the subject : 'Strangely like Fiction: Sponsored Academics Admit Falsely Claiming Dairy Hormone Safety Endorsements".

http://independentsciencenews.org/ne...y-endorsement/

There is an urgent need for [I]all[I] clinical trials to be reported otherwise we see only what we are allowed to see.