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Thread: Steven Greer's core team has apparently left him (long report by Alfred Webre)

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    Avalon Member jaybee's Avatar
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    Default Re: Steven Greer's core team has apparently left him (long report by Alfred Webre)

    .

    I always thought Alfred Webre was more than a bit iffy....and this hit piece has confirmed it for me.

    I think some disinformation pushers get themselves deeply embedded into the 'scene'... but are sometimes called upon to do a big 'hit' on a major player.

    To confuse and divide and rule...

    I consider Stanton Friedman's big hit on Bob Lazar to be in the same vein.


    If I had to chose between who to believe.... Webre or Greer...it would be Greer.


    Unless I'm being too kind about Webre and he has just been weak and duped...

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    Default Re: Steven Greer's core team has apparently left him (long report by Alfred Webre)

    Steven's ego won't allow him to admit he's lost control of the coke/reactions, because the drug addicted also ego, protects its source of supply.

    That's probably why he's observed other sites surviving by asking for a donation here or there, but to come out ask for funding and buy real estate with it, means the ego is materialistic also and feels superior enough to say: "I did this or that and, I deserve these things. If it wasn't for me, none of this would be happening."

    Prayers for stability and a new humble awareness. Steven will lose his ability to meditate, if the coke doesn't stop, and maybe already has. Ego/I/Separational duality, isn't allowed in the dimensions, is it?
    Get it together Steven, it's bigger than your ego, it's ALL there is. Hear this Steven, and know we love you, but the choices are yours to make, for good or bad intent. Lies and deceit, are but a bite of the apple/gateway, to the long road down in abyss.

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    Default Re: Steven Greer's core team has apparently left him (long report by Alfred Webre)

    did anyone consider this may all be set up to make ufo believers look like kooks? greer certainly had alot of press and momentum in his camp/campaign to bring so called truths to light, but now so typically human to fall in this manner, its all very interesting , i was a bit suspicious of him along with others but i did think he had a good thing going, now i just feel he may have bolstered his own mission a bit too far too fast and is like alot of us frustrated , not to mention i think his own self got to himself, basking in the light of popularity for a previous no-no subject. its a shame really, peace,dennis

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    Default Re: Steven Greer's core team has apparently left him (long report by Alfred Webre)

    I would like to add that my above post is my speculation, from my first gut response, my first impression from reading this thread, based on my 'limited perception'. All that I have read here, combined with my own thoughts to date. A burst of speculation, logical analysis of limited suppositions and my own inner perceptions. I hope others know how to deal with that, it amounts to what is known as... an opinion, highly speculative, I hope it fuels more thought and analysis. It is what it is.

    Against the backdrop of his lifetime of achievement ... this "article" that has all the potential of a "hit piece" (as much as I find Webre likable and even fascinating, he isn't exactly what I would call the epitome of pure reason, nor do I find him completely transparent either. Wasn't he previously a "lawyer"? I would like to hear more of Bill's take about him on that... (what'dya say gang!...


    That said, it is interesting to attempt to distill some common denominators that have been expressed. We seem to have the following (am I missing any?)

    "ego issue" - very broad and hard to qualify, as the word "ego" ALWAYS is... (since the word itself has never been properly defined imo, i.e. has multiple connotations... I find it a useful 'place marker' at best in analysing specific psychological contexts, it is a slippery but still a useful theoretical concept in my mind, one shouldn't underestimate the complexity of individual human souls, their psychology or philosophy )

    "multiple agendas" - a natural given the quantity and scope of achievement, the nature of his personality, the potential network of people (and aliens!) he may be in contact with, so it begs a lot of questions there...

    "alien/military/elite influence" - which brings into question, given such a wide scope 'variables' from every day CSETI wannabes to high powered elites and government officials, who may or may not have black op ties, to a self professed high level meditations as a form of "non local consciousness" type communications with 'other worldly entities'... it is well known that this type of altered state of consciousness DOES make one open to EXTERNAL influence, both alien, and who's to say they didn't build a special device just for the good Dr? especially after the failed first murder attempt... something more subtle perhaps? and all this against being in the public spotlight for so many years... (whew!...)


    It is certainly hard to now fully grasp 'the ultimate truth out there' that "ALL is ONE", that so many profess to know and understand. What does this all mean? Especially for someone like Dr Greer. Which brings up another obvious attribute by definition...

    "Enigma" - Just these limited factors alone, all conspire to create a more complex personality than meets the eye. We are truly judging from our personal limitations and egos and limited biases. I really am not sure which side I fall on. I can honestly say it literally jumps back and forth in his case...

    But!... When I am confronted with such incredible ambiguity, which this certainly qualifies for... (complex ambiguity at that!) One has to be extremely cautious... by definition. There is both good and bad here. We are all "human" (whatever that turns out to be in the end) And damn him!... but he has accomplished a lot in this movement... whatever he is about, Dr Steven Greer is one resilient human being. I do want him to land on the right side, but I would like to see him 'grow' more as a human being too. Despite his greatness on the political and public side and his discipline of 'meditative practices' ... I would like to see him grow more spiritually. Not through his image on the big screen or his books, but inside, where no one else can see. I think there are major unresolved issues in there somewhere. His near death experience, Sherries death, the constant frustration and rejection of his mission, the failed murder attempt on himself. If he doesn't completely incorporate these things and comes to terms. He will divide himself against himself ultimately. I think that struggle may still be going on...

    There is still that all too universal human frailty issue. At the end of the day, he is just one man. I have learned one thing from being a "successful" weight trainer. Like all things. It is addictive. It can be a crutch. It engenders a lot of undeserved or misplaced respect, similar to the automatic license men give to sexy gorgeous blonds. I don't think he necessarily over pursues it excessively. And I never thought about it until now... the 'drug' issue did trigger this speculation and insight. The only sure observation is that it appears he has kept it up continuously all throughout his illustrious career. And for many good reasons I can imagine. That said, it is still indicative of a certain personality type, and creates the potential for a host of addictive traits, let's face it. It is about physical body identification, It is a form or excessive artificial stimulation relative to the actual external environment. It tends to promote constant identification with self nurturing, my body, my nutrients, my schedule, etc. There is a fine line here.

    I believe there is real physical and spiritual value in fasting, as one example, something completely the opposite of "weight training". It is can be good to 'fall out' of practice and occasionally experience "physical human weakness" once in awhile. It is very humbling, and will always expose you to certain truths you wouldn't experience otherwise... Especially if you wish to develop more subtle and spiritual values, just saying... I believe humility will open your perception to a whole other world. It's the hardest lesson, the one we all constantly have to re-align with. A discipline unto itself. The one we all fail. (I hope that isn't too 'un American')
    Last edited by sigma6; 19th June 2013 at 14:17.
    We shall not cease from exploration, and the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time
    By faith we understand things which are seen were not made of the things which are visible

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    Default Re: Steven Greer's core team has apparently left him (long report by Alfred Webre)

    Quote Posted by Ernie Nemeth (here)
    Honestly. One look at Greer's "stuff" and it is clear to see he hasn't got it "right". He's grasping at straws. That's why Sirius sucked. He's got nothing. This again should be obvious but we always like a good yarn. It's what us conspiracy nuts do - look for flys in the ointment.

    Matters not what side they are playing, we love to get into the dirt.

    Steve couldn't get the goods so he made most of it up. What's new? Look at his "dead man's switch", what a load of crap.

    Then again, I believe he believes...

    Quite like many of us , he's trying to prove things at all cost because He knows they exist , he's experienced them, he knows they are provable if we all tried and worked hard ( but we never will because we are so lazy ) .

    The problem is with the level of logic on where human civilisation is able to reclaim their connection to the Stars is a complex level of logic ,
    logic too has levels which is beyond grasp of many people unfortunately still struggling with how to get from A to B then C and back without mistake .

    Then you have millions of people , literally who think on more sophisticated levels embracing whole complexes of information at the same time and working along those lines which the ones in first group can not get right,
    in the same life time.

    ETc etc.

    So if we are to embark on this path of reconnecting mankind to their own history, their own extra-terrestrial origins, memory, abilities and so on,
    and to do this without gross mistakes and exodus of the civilisation,

    it takes ages of evolution, can be supported in certain ways but can not be forced .

    You can give information to people but not the intellect they need to proceed it. You can give them laws but they need to know their own conscience to be able to make use of laws good way.


    So any independent individual coming into this automatically gets to pickle because you can only explain truth to people on certain level,
    you can promise things will take good course ( but they may not be able to see it during their lifetime ),
    and when they start pushing you for 'proofs' and the proofs do not exist immediately on level of their understanding and they'd have to invest lots of effort to meet the criteria for acquiring proofs,
    you're called out .

    It also simply shows certain hidden tendencies and characteristic features of the race/kind of entities intervening,
    we all have some weaknesses .


    I think, they always , in history as well ..tried to invent some proofs and enact icons so that people were happy while the real 'proofs' had to be hidden because they'd not be enough to satisfy anybody .

    Pros and cons


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    Default Re: Steven Greer's core team has apparently left him (long report by Alfred Webre)

    Speak for yourself. This type of spiritual battle calls for "ALL" to be on board. We ourselves are just beginning to learn, there is much more we don't know. WE need help, we've tried the vote and will continue, but some people like the cheerleading of the warmachomachine, and conquest like a warrior approach to running the world, more than they love us or the planet.

    NO turning back, to "perhaps if's." I asked Creator and God to make themselves known to these generations who are willing to do the right thing, but have been held back from using our God given freedoms or talents for the good of the world.

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    Default Re: Steven Greer's core team has apparently left him (long report by Alfred Webre)

    But don't you all see that it's about Disclosure getting blocked again....? Anyone involved with it is targeted in some way or another. Why should it be different with Greer? Maybe he IS being mind controlled and/or his tight circle's been infiltrated. Shut him up or shut him down.... The puppet masters don't want disclosure. Period.
    That's why Disclosure has to come from the ET's themselves because we're all caught up in the intrigues....

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    Default Re: Steven Greer's core team has apparently left him (long report by Alfred Webre)

    The human tendency for hero worship is natural. Natural enough to effect even highly educated people who pride themselves on making good queries and investigating on their own. We pick our favorites (experts) to tell other people about when making a point in a debate. We know full well that dis-info is the rule in most matters guberment, infiltrators gaming us is standard practice yet, we pick one or two we just know for sure are true blue and it's rare we don't get bit.

    I was excited about the disclosure project and used Mr. Greer's campaign as a doorway to bring the subject of UFOs up in new crowds. The 200 professionals beside him gave me the confidence to speak up more. Even though that first presentation was before the world in a respectable venue, it was really only people like us gathered here who knew about it happening. Then poof, 911 took over the news.

    The timing of it all was just too perfect imo.

    I think the UFO community was thrown a bone to gnaw on, perfectly timed with 911.

    Mr. Greer could be the most upstanding human on Earth and made to look like a fool quite easily by the same kind of people who could have arranged for his press club event to occur when it did.

    Personally, I don't care for the kind of ego many like him begin displaying once people begin thinking of them as an expert. The movement becomes all about them and they slap quite well at people who ask unpopular questions.

    For the sake of our credibility as a community, I hope he comes out as clean or at least innocent of ill intent. Any one of us can be duped.

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    Default Re: Steven Greer's core team has apparently left him (long report by Alfred Webre)

    .


    awwwww that nice man Alfred Webre [/sarcasm].....has got his hands on and

    released Greer's 'Dead Man's Trigger'..

    http://exopolitics.blogs.com/files/s...ns.trigger.pdf


    That begins...

    'This is Dr Steven Greer, and if you are hearing this, it is because I have either
    been killed or am missing, or I have illegally been imprisioned on some trumped up
    charges that have been confabulated by people who want to stop our work.'


    perhaps he should have added....


    or it is released into the public domain by a duplicitous double-dealer...



    It's sinking in a bit more now about what the premature release of this document
    means to Steven Greer.


    Never mind the baloney about ....

    Quote “The people who have left Greer's team are afraid for their lives. One of them had his brakes cut, etc.”

    The confidential Exopolitics.com source also stated that former Greer associate Dr. Jan Bravo had been threatened following her disaffiliation with Dr. Greer.

    “Jan Bravo said that she came home today to find on her front foyer some streaks of blood...and it didn't come from the dog. She considered it a warning and no more.”

    It is now Greer's life that is more at risk...???

    nice work Webre.....


    .


    .

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    Default Re: Steven Greer's core team has apparently left him (long report by Alfred Webre)

    Thanks for that, Agape. I have a friend who identifies herself as a positive Reptilian, not an easy person to understand, and very, very different from the norm.
    Their existence is something that gets sidelined all too often.
    And from what my friend says, the positive ones deserve a lot of credit for helping, at great personal cost, to keep the negatives from doing even more harm to what they consider to be "lesser" races, such as humankind.
    Not an easy thing to be, on Earth at this time, particularly one with a high profile.
    The way you describe him helps me to understand better why I sense that Greer is basically heroic, but has a very hard time understanding and operating in the human playing field he is on.
    He certainly appears to be on a steep learning curve in this lifetime.

    Quote Posted by Agape (here)
    Quote Posted by The Truth Is In There (here)
    i'm not surprised. james bartley already pointed out years ago that steven greer is a reptilian host.
    He is benevolent , what you call 'reptillian' ( it's not a graceful term considering but lets try to remain impartial ) who feels strong compassion for human race .
    He is a renegade , someone who refused to go with his society laws and convictions about not-interferring with human evolution ,
    the golden middle of their civilisation are not 'evil' , they're very advanced compared to current mankind, very proud of themselves though , very well organized .

    Disobedience to the collective is not tolerated . They do hold a level contempt for civilisations they perceive as barbaric and idiotic .

    So if Steven Greer is indeed, 'one of them' ..what he does on earth is at His own risks .

    No matter how well he was received in human society, and no matter his conscious efforts to improve and rise the awareness level on many fronts ..
    he won't be feeling totally comfortable to be with, for casual humans and has a difficulty to understand why do 'they function' the way they do.


    For Galactic Federation
    Each breath a gift...
    _____________

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    Default Re: Steven Greer's core team has apparently left him (long report by Alfred Webre)

    God forbid if anything like that came out in regards to David Icke. We all know how many people love him.Now that's going to be interesting to see what comes of his new venture.

    I used to donate a monthly amounts to Lloyd Pie until they asked for something like 5 million for a new research centre.For some the money train keeps going once they have reached a goal they set another one.We all know how important some things are but at what cost

    From now on i will follow my own path and leave a trail

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    Default Re: Steven Greer's core team has apparently left him (long report by Alfred Webre)

    Quote Posted by onawah (here)
    Thanks for that, Agape. I have a friend who identifies herself as a positive Reptilian, not an easy person to understand, and very, very different from the norm.
    Their existence is something that gets sidelined all too often.
    And from what my friend says, the positive ones deserve a lot of credit for helping, at great personal cost, to keep the negatives from doing even more harm to what they consider to be "lesser" races, such as humankind.
    Not an easy thing to be, on Earth at this time, particularly one with a high profile.
    The way you describe him helps me to understand better why I sense that Greer is basically heroic, but has a very hard time understanding and operating in the human playing field he is on.
    He certainly appears to be on a steep learning curve in this lifetime.

    Quote Posted by Agape (here)
    Quote Posted by The Truth Is In There (here)
    i'm not surprised. james bartley already pointed out years ago that steven greer is a reptilian host.
    He is benevolent , what you call 'reptillian' ( it's not a graceful term considering but lets try to remain impartial ) who feels strong compassion for human race .
    He is a renegade , someone who refused to go with his society laws and convictions about not-interferring with human evolution ,
    the golden middle of their civilisation are not 'evil' , they're very advanced compared to current mankind, very proud of themselves though , very well organized .

    Disobedience to the collective is not tolerated . They do hold a level contempt for civilisations they perceive as barbaric and idiotic .

    So if Steven Greer is indeed, 'one of them' ..what he does on earth is at His own risks .

    No matter how well he was received in human society, and no matter his conscious efforts to improve and rise the awareness level on many fronts ..
    he won't be feeling totally comfortable to be with, for casual humans and has a difficulty to understand why do 'they function' the way they do.


    For Galactic Federation
    the thing is they know what's on this planet ... some of the most powerful spirit beings in the universe are trapped here ... and they will do anything to keep them trapped ... because they know what will happen if any of them fully wakes up ... and that is why they will go all ends to keep us asleep


    jim
    Last edited by jiminii; 19th June 2013 at 15:48.

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    Default Re: Steven Greer's core team has apparently left him (long report by Alfred Webre)

    Let us focus on removing the mechanisms that may be implanted and see what comes of it.

    Can't hurt, and if it's true, it will be a warning to those who are doing this, that WE control our destiny and don't like our fellow humans getting harmed or "enslaved by technology."

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    Default Re: Steven Greer's core team has apparently left him (long report by Alfred Webre)

    I just wanted to say something about the general background to this. In particular, Steven Greer's "all aliens are friendly" assertion.

    This has kind of been the nub of a lot of the controversy ever since the famous Camelot interview with him. But I think we are falling into the classic trap of the old "binary" thinking that programs most of us from birth.

    Think of a jungle - there is all kinds of life in a Jungle. From pond life, plant life and cell life to snakes lions and tigers. Nowadays, although the latter 3 are considered predatory and a danger to humans, we don't actually think of them as "evil" or "wanting to do us harm". It's a question of understanding and familiarity with the species rather than one of judgement.

    I always think that that metaphor of the jungle is a good way to think of the unknown in general. We can see it in different ways:

    [1] - from the macroscopic perspective of human zoological interest it's an example of wilderness, nature, diversity, harmony and something to be cherished and conserved. All species are equally important and respected. There are no "good / evil" species even though some are predatory - its a question of survival and natural balance.

    [2] - from the microscopic perspective of a heard of wilderbeast, a nearby pack of hungry lions most definitely is malevolent and to be avoided at all costs

    If we now switch to the concept of (potential) alien visitations and just reflect for a moment on how utterly vast that whole concept is, it's not surprising that there will be a huge range of views as to how that concept if perceived. As the example above shows, those views don't necessarily need to be consistent for them all to have validity.

    My conclusion is to take things at face value. I've watched a lot of Greer stuff and it has informed me. I'm not sitting there thinking "is he trying to dupe me" or anything - because I read loads of sources not just him. As far as I'm concerned, Greer's entitled to his perspective of because I can resolve the conflict between him and Kerry (or at least "his view and Kerry's") in my own mind by labelling his view a Case [1] above and Kerry's a Case [2].

    I mean, surely we can consult our own intuition about this. Saying "all Lions are good" has a philosophically valid ring to it because they are creatures of nature, well understood by humans and generally live in harmony with their environment. On the other hand, you'd probably take a different perspective if you were on the wrong side of a hungry one 10 feet away. It's all relative.

    If Greer's been caught with his hands in the till then that should just be dealt with like any other regular case - innocent until proven guilty. It's not exactly uncommon

    Meanwhile, I don't think this should become the next OJ Simpson "show trial" of the exopolitics community, otherwise it really will derail the agenda.

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    Default Re: Steven Greer's core team has apparently left him (long report by Alfred Webre)

    To Pete's comment, I think the analogy has to factor in the level of consciousness...so jungle where a lion (or other "animal") is on "top of the food chain" doesn't really apply...because the important aspect that gets lost in that discussion is awareness and amount of information.

    That is why a cattle anaology would work better. Or factoring into the jungle, humans that can impose their will on the jungle anyway they choose: Harvest the resources (at the expense of the already existing life their), manipulate the choice animals to their desires, for fun or to have some creatures love/depend/do tricks for them, to directly take their energy, benignly observe and study, or even protect it--if some external or even internal threat was introduced.

    To not incorporate a "top of the food chain" more advance than we are is a folly. Yes we are animals, but we are animals with more information and awareness (we've eaten from the tree of knowledge) of the creative power of our consciousness (and the destructivness that comes with it). A domesitc animal is as manipulable as we are, maybe more so, once removed from the "wild", and introduced to the reality we impose on it. I find these observations always get lost when I have this discussion in real life, and just wanted to interject it to prevent that from happening here.

    I've always had an issue with Greer's insistence of only peaceful and benign watchers and protectors, to make humans the most "advanced" conscious beings capable of doing harm to "lesser" beings. I think the programming is deep with that idea...
    Last edited by donk; 19th June 2013 at 17:26.

  29. Link to Post #56
    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Steven Greer's core team has apparently left him (long report by Alfred Webre)

    Quote Posted by jaybee (here)
    .

    I always thought Alfred Webre was more than a bit iffy....and this hit piece has confirmed it for me.
    But suppose what Webre reports is true?

    I know Todd Hathaway (he used to be an Avalon member, btw). He stated to me quite a while back that he had been unfairly and potentially publicly smeared by Greer's "Dead Man's Trigger" document.

    The PDF was not publicly available at that time. Now it's been released (as compiled scanned images of the pages), and many people will have downloaded it, we have that in black and white. Download the document here, and what Greer writes about Todd Hathaway begins on the second page of the text (the third page of the PDF).

    And how did Webre get that document, unless someone who is or was in Greer's team gave that to him? And if so, why would they have done that?

    Our opinions and reactions about whether something feels 'iffy' or not may not be relevant. Sometimes, we find ourselves supporting someone out of our belief system, or what we feel comfortable with, or what makes us secure and gives us hope. And then later, we realize that our hope and trust was misplaced.

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    Default Re: Steven Greer's core team has apparently left him (long report by Alfred Webre)

    The weirdest thing about Greer (to me) is the fact that he goes on and on and on about meditation and the Vedas, both of which essentially necessitate as well as cause, a dissolution of our ego-mind state of being. Greer isn't exactly the poster boy for that, but more like a scary reminder of how bad things can get when your ego is in charge of you entirely. It's almost like a priest in a gold-adorned church praying to the congregation that no rich man will ever enter the kingdom of heaven...


    Edit: Someone on this thread asked why he never contacts or speaks about Keshe. If what this guy says is true, and who knows if it is, then the fact that the country of his birth has a somewhat difficult standing in the US and with Greer's alleged backers/ handlers. Just a thought, but could be a contributing factor. Why would they try to get this out and let someone from that country be the hero or even sit on the table for that matter
    Last edited by Soulboy; 19th June 2013 at 17:44.

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    Default Re: Steven Greer's core team has apparently left him (long report by Alfred Webre)

    Quote Posted by donk (here)
    I've always had an issue with Greer's insistence of only peaceful and benign watchers and protectors, to make humans the most "advanced" conscious beings capable of doing harm to "lesser" beings. I think the programming is deep with that idea...
    Fair enough. Regarding the "farming" and jungle manipulation aspects of your remarks, I accept those but the point I was really making is that I don't think there's a need to make so much out of the fact that he says they're all friendly.

    I mean people shouldn't be hanging on his every word to such an extent that they they see it as an "absolute" and get upset if he's wrong. They are free to make up their own minds as he has made up his.

    Ultimately it's our own consciousnesses that keep us imprisoned, not a bunch of aliens. If the sheep on a farm woke up one day and decided they were being "kept" and that they didn't like it there wouldn't be much the farmer could do about it.

    Similarly, the hypothetical relationship between humans and aliens will be characterised by our relative levels of consciousness, not by whether they are good / evil, malevolent or benevolent.

    P
    Last edited by indigopete; 19th June 2013 at 17:50.

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    Default Re: Steven Greer's core team has apparently left him (long report by Alfred Webre)

    But to take away the awareness part...that's huge. Instead of jungle, how about society: the tigers and gorillas are the top people we are allowed to "see", bill gates and W and such...you want to dismiss the presence of black ops or puppet masters? You don't think they can manipulate our consciousness/reality? And are above using a Greer to do it?

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    Default Re: Steven Greer's core team has apparently left him (long report by Alfred Webre)

    Quote Posted by donk (here)
    But to take away the awareness part...that's huge. Instead of jungle, how about society: the tigers and gorillas are the top people we are allowed to "see", bill gates and W and such...you want to dismiss the presence of black ops or puppet masters? You don't think they can manipulate our consciousness/reality? And are above using a Greer to do it?
    Ah !! Excellent point. We're seeing the same thing but from a glass half empty / half full perspective on who has the power.

    According to the original teachings of the great Ickemeister in residence, the Gates / Rockefeller type "manipulators" are not there because they're manevolent, they're there because we want them there. i.e. they are a symptom of our aggregate consciousness-deficiency in the area of wanting to take control over our own personal lives. If millions of us suddenly did that in a small way, the manipulators would disappear in an instant - a bit like a flock of starlings that can change direction in a millisecond.

    Think of it another way - if you leave your garden alone for a few weeks, weeds will grow. From the perspective of consciousness thinking, you can look at that 2 ways:

    [1] - as an unconscious absence of will (to clear the weeds)

    [2] - as a conscious presence of will (to allow the weeds to grow)

    People will interpret your actions in one of those 2 ways and both will be equally valid.

    You might see it as [1] and feel that you "forgot" to weed the garden. On the other hand, if you were looking after the garden on behalf of a friend, they will probably take option [2] and want to clober you.

    Similarly, the wisdom of "great Ickedome on high" has it that the "elite" have simply floated into the blank space of our collective consciousness. If we want them to go away we don't need to fight them, just become conscious of them and they'll disappear immediately.

    Not a bad deal if you can get it

    (I agree with him b.t.w.)
    Last edited by indigopete; 19th June 2013 at 18:12.

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