Lets talk about Addiction...

[4Talismans]

Specifically, how does addiction play into the mess this world is in? And what spiritual techniques are the most successful at combating addiction?
I admit I have a selfish reason for asking. I'd like to quit smoking.

[greybeard]

That's a big question.
Almost everything you can think of you will find some one addicted to it.

Some people--me included, have an addictive nature.
That can be positive if you get interested in something positive.
The addictive nature tuned down a bit can be a driver to get positive results--you keep going when other run out of steam.

AA 12 step program works for me.

Drug and alcohol seemingly, temporally, can create a high experience similar to samadi (spiritual awakening)
This is because the normal inhibitions are not there and a sense of freedom not experienced in a sober state is felt.
Its not so much the drink-drug that is sought but the high.
The first ever high can not be found again and there is an on going search to find it again.

Stopping smoking --- I dont for long periods of time then because I know how to stop I will resume for several months.
Longest off was ten years.
I just say I wont have one just now---no big deal.
Moments become hours become days etc
That works for me.

Spiritual technique --I turn "whatever" over to God.
When I stopped drinking I imagined parcelling up the problem and giving it as a "gift" to God.
Any time I felt like a drink I say to myself. "You gave it as a gift to God--you dont ask for presents back"

Dr David Hawkins has a book out called "Letting go The path of surrender"
That is helpful.

Best wishes
Chris

[Sérénité]

I think addiction is something different to everyone, the addiction itself plus the reason behind it.
First I think we need to try work out the reason behind the specific addiction.
When did it start, was there a trigger? Peer pressure? Feeling low? Feeling too high? And so on.

For me, looking back to past addictions its been out of routine. The thing I became addicted to may have been a 'try it you might like it' scenario at first. Onwards from that stage it was always habit of routine.

For me in overcoming the habits I had to break the routine.
Instead of lighting up after a coffee or meal I would go draw or do something requiring both hands and full attention and no ashtray
For other issues it was stay away from certain places and people, distract my weekends from those old haunts with new more healthier options!

I think some people have addictive natures and some not so much, thankfully I'm the latter so quitting everything I feel I need to is, ok not easy, but easier than some may find it.

I don't think the world is in a state because of addictions, but more so that people are drawn to the escape and comforting routine of various addictions because of the state of the world!

Search for your reasons for the addiction starting in the first place and work from there.
But usually if you can break the routine you can beat the demons!

Good luck

[johnf]

18 years abstention from alchohol, 15 from tobacco, (2 1/2 packs/day).
Just two out of a long list, having a rough time with oreo and milk addiction.

Substance addictions have allways boiled down to avoiding feeling certain emotions.
They did this for me by suppressing them.
Alchohol suppressed fear and anxiety for me.
Tobacco supressed anger and frustration.
Marijuana suppressed depression.
When I quit smoking I tended to explode in rage for a while.
When the same reaction to situations keeps coming up I need to look at the pattern behind it.
That is the main thrust of the 12 step programs, to look at those internal habit patterns.
There are many other approaches to dealing with these patterns, also known as old ideas, but I had found that it is the unwillingness to feel the emotions in life that lead to these patterns, and I have to feel the emotions and look at the thoughts that come up when I look at my behaviors.
Good Luck with your project!

jf

[BrianEn]

Addiction is made up of three main components. Obsession, that thought that we need this to feel better or even good is the mental part of addition. Compusion, the inabilty to stop once we have started. Self-centeredness is the spiritual part of the disease. It's separates us from others in the task of getting what we need. Smoking may not seem as drastic but a very hard addiction to kick.

[4Talismans]

Well, what I meant by addiction in regards to the state the world is in today, is that I think addiction is one of the ways the masses stay "asleep". A constant chase after whatever substance or high one is addicted to leaves little time or room for awakening. And then there's the whole "war on drugs" which is really a tool of oppression but thats a whole other thread.

I don't really have an addictive personality. I've given up alcohol and marijuana at the drop of a hat. I've quit smoking 3 times in the past but this time I'm finding it much harder. I do think that Serenite is right about the routine component of it. I'll have to give some thought to changing that. And like John E I tend to explode in rage and that is just not acceptable. I'd rather smoke than do that. Last time I tried to quit I went off on a family member because a pillow was in the wrong place.

Self Centeredness as the spiritual part of it... that is very interesting. I need to contemplate that for awhile.

[greybeard]

There is an addiction to the status quo.
Many are frightened of the unknown--uncertainty.
They might complain about what is current but are not prepared to do what it takes to personally change.
We change personally (perception/ attitude) everything else changes.
The only thing constant apart from Self is change.
We hope there will be a better tomorrow and hope that circumstances will change but few initiate change.
So yes we are addicted to normality ie status quo. We think we understand and are relatively comfortable with this.

Chris

[4Talismans]

I could not agree more. Changing perception, in my experience takes looking at a few hard truths. But once done a cosmic flow is established.

Posted by greybeard (here)
There is an addiction to the status quo.
Many are frightened of the unknown--uncertainty.
They might complain about what is current but are not prepared to do what it takes to personally change.
We change personally (perception/ attitude) everything else changes.
The only thing constant apart from Self is change.
We hope there will be a better tomorrow and hope that circumstances will change but few initiate change.
So yes we are addicted to normality ie status quo. We think we understand and are relatively comfortable with this.

Chris

[Eagle Eye]

..........

[markpierre]

Posted by 4Talismans (here)
Specifically, how does addiction play into the mess this world is in? And what spiritual techniques are the most successful at combating addiction?
I admit I have a selfish reason for asking. I'd like to quit smoking.

It plays no part. It's a distraction. We're all addicted to associating with bodies,
and proving their weaknesses.
Guilt will kill you far quicker and thoroughly than tobacco will.

There's a reward in smoking. Sometimes it's guilt, but it can be anything.
A moment where you don't have to decide anything. I'll have a smoke and put off that decision.
What you're putting off could be devastating as exemplified by past decisions, or it could be beautiful.
The more devastating it is, the more potentially beautiful it could be. There's the rub.
Have you fully accepted the purpose and growth in past devastation?
See if you can find what that reward might be, and decide if the reward vs the delay, is worth it to you.

[4Talismans]

Really beautifully said. And that Rumi quote is one of my two all time favorites.

Posted by markpierre (here)

Posted by 4Talismans (here)
Specifically, how does addiction play into the mess this world is in? And what spiritual techniques are the most successful at combating addiction?
I admit I have a selfish reason for asking. I'd like to quit smoking.

It plays no part. It's a distraction. We're all addicted to associating with bodies,
and proving their weaknesses.
Guilt will kill you far quicker and thoroughly than tobacco will.

There's a reward in smoking. Sometimes it's guilt, but it can be anything.
A moment where you don't have to decide anything. I'll have a smoke and put off that decision.
What you're putting off could be devastating as exemplified by past decisions, or it could be beautiful.
The more devastating it is, the more potentially beautiful it could be. There's the rub.
Have you fully accepted the purpose and growth in past devastation?
See if you can find what that reward might be, and decide if the reward vs the delay, is worth it to you.

[johnf]

I changed my 12 packs a day to 2. I woulda if I coulda!

jf

[ghostrider]

one won't quit smoking until you really want to quit... I quit smoking for ten yrs, got a divorce, a year later my father died, six months later my grandmother, six months later my grandfather, then I went back to smoking from stress .. life is too short, I will enjoy my tobbaco , even if it's bad for me... tommorrow could be my last day on earth, I will be happy and free ... the way I quit , when I ran out, I simply didn't buy them anymore ...you can't smoke em , if you don't have em ...thats all I can say about that ... good luck , you can do it ...

[mgray]

I was told early on that an addict is an egomaniac with low self esteem. It's true in my case, think about it

[markpierre]

Posted by mgray (here)
I was told early on that an addict is an egomaniac with low self esteem. It's true in my case, think about it

Think about that it was true in your case? Sure. Whatever you say.

That it's a rule, would have come from an egomaniac,
probably with low self esteem.

[Zephyr]

I'm a former Heroin addict and I've been 100% clean for nearly four years. Addiction and myself work too well together. That said, I now help other addicts who WANT help and those that're helping THEMSELVES. I used to think I could change people, I really thought I was that great that I could change the way people think.

Wow, I couldn't have been more wrong....

Your closest family members and best friends/lovers will lie to your face just to appease you so that you won't bother them about their problem/addiction; I know, I was a damn good liar myself.

Then one gets so tired from the pain of withdrawals, all the lies we've told that we cannot possibly remember, and then some of us get sick and tired of being sick and tired.

A very small number of us make it out alive, we pull ourselves together before we've lost everything, we conquer the beast.

Addiction is such a complicated, tough road. I beat Heroin, I will never beat addiction.

[Jake]

Posted by Zephyr (here)
I'm a former Heroin addict and I've been 100% clean for nearly four years. Addiction and myself work too well together. That said, I now help other addicts who WANT help and those that're helping THEMSELVES. I used to think I could change people, I really thought I was that great that I could change the way people think.

Wow, I couldn't have been more wrong....

Your closest family members and best friends/lovers will lie to your face just to appease you so that you won't bother them about their problem/addiction; I know, I was a damn good liar myself.

Then one gets so tired from the pain of withdrawals, all the lies we've told that we cannot possibly remember, and then some of us get sick and tired of being sick and tired.

A very small number of us make it out alive, we pull ourselves together before we've lost everything, we conquer the beast.

Addiction is such a complicated, tough road. I beat Heroin, I will never beat addiction.

Wow! Thank you for that brave post. Heroin is an ugly beast!! You must be an amazing person. To face down addiction, means to face down ones own self. Saying that you will never beat addiction is quite wise, in my opinion. One can never stop facing themselves, and to say that you have beat ADDICTION is saying that you will no longer endeavor to challenge yourself to be true to who you are! The human condition is alive and well with folks who cannot face themselves. I believe it goes to the very core of the situation on our planet today!! No matter how much information gathering occurs, one must gather the courage to embrace truths at this level. And that requires a commitment to 'inner searching'. That is why INSPIRATION, and living with joy are two of our most potent weapons in life. Many folks have no idea what it is that they believe, or what they want, or how they see themselves... I believe this to be a problem. If one has dialed in what they believe, what they want, what direction they want their lives to take, one will be less likely to become addicted. Or, more likely to conquer an addiction.

Thank you for your post. You are not alone!!

Jake.

[witchy1]

Thanks for sharing Zephyr. What Jake said and what a journey to take

A very brave soul and mighty warrior indeed



PS - Ibogaine for addictions. There is a thread here about it.
https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...light=ibogaine

[Cognitive Dissident]

This is a great thread. Lots of great advice and sharing.
Good luck to 4Talismans (I know that is not the right phrase - I mean "lots of support to you") - please let us know about your success in quiting.
I don't have any great advice, apart from that getting the right nutrition and vitamins, etc., is going to be even more important during this time.
If I was a nutritionist, I would be able to do tell you the exact things you need to take, but unfortunately... (If had some ham, I'd make ham and eggs, if I had any eggs )
Any nutritionists in the house?

[778 neighbour of some guy]

Ibogaïne, do your own research, I'll leave this thread with that, good luck, you will be just fine.