Chemtrails: Fact, Or New Age Myth?

[Fred259]

Posted by Paul (here)

Posted by Cidersomerset (here)
Thanks Fred I think chemtrails are real and there are various reasons for them. I
have posted many times and ex pilot Fred 239 ? ...

That would be Fred259.

That's right that would be me.....

Hello Cow...long time no speak. However we do seem to me making a little progress with this controversial subject although I do find the poll results incredibly scary.

Here is a very good video that explains what happens when you throw boiling water from a pan into the air where the outside air temp is -40C. It doesn’t have to be -40C, it could equally be -10C so some of you folks in the Mid West and Canada will be able to try this experiment in a few months time for real...... go on give it a try......

It is exactly the same in a jet engine. The inner engine temp is circa +600C (three times hotter than your kitchen oven), the temp at the back end of the engine mightbe +200C and the exhaust is being ejected into the atmosphere where its -50C on average. Think about that for a moment from +200C to -50C, think of the shock cooling.......

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=KE1CeL6n7Ps

https://youtube.com/watch?v=KE1CeL6n7Ps

In the video towards the end they are talking about contrail cirrus with is being caused by the increasing volume of moisture being injected into the atmosphere by wide-body aircraft with monster engines. Part of the problem is that people think back to the old days when we had DC9 aircraft and Pratt & Witney 20,000lb trust engines. Today the General Electric GE-90 engine that powers the B777 for example is rated at 125,000 lbs of thrust a 6.25 fold increase in deliverable trust and power compared with the DC9 and the PWJD9 engine from the 1970's.

The contrail cirrus they are talking about in the BBC video is due to the vast amount of power or thrust that is being produced that in turn produces vast amounts of contrails to put it bluntly.

Here is a video of the Airbus A350 maiden flight in June this year. I post this up in good faith however what will happen is that some idiot will get hold of it and edit out what the video is all about and turn this into a chem-trial “Proof video” Don’t be dumb. Its the maiden flight of the A350. The reason I’m posting it up is to point out at 1.31 into the video the engineer goes down the back and we see rows and rows of what looks like drums or tanks. In the past those who try and confuse you have attempted to suggest that these are chemical tanks. Nonsense, the tanks are used to change the centre of gravity fore and aft of a datum point by pumping the water inside the tanks fore and aft. That's what the engineers are doing. That is the purpose of this flight.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=nA7L51j9OlI

https://youtube.com/watch?v=nA7L51j9OlI

The data sheet below is for the Rolls Royce XWB engines that power the Airbus A350 and the Boeing 777 300ER. These engines are rated at 75,000 to 97,000 stonking lbs of thrust! These are huge monsters that are sucking in 1,440kgs of airflow per second. Now stop! Think...for one moment that is nearly 1.5 tonnes of air being sucked into each engine per second. Appreciate what that might look like. If you stop and stare at contrail for let's say 5 minutes, instead of thinking about the nonsense you have been reading on conspiracy theory websites, think with a clear head and think logically. The 5 minutes that you have watched the aircraft disappear over the horizon with it long jet trail is in reality 300 seconds. Therefore 300 seconds x 1.4 tonnes of air per second x 2 (because the aircraft has 2 engines) is a staggering 840 tonnes of air that the engines have sucked in and compressed through the engines in the short 5 minutes that you were staring and wondering.



How do we know this? Again the problem is you must appreciate what 500kts speed is really like. 500Kts is 500 nautical miles per hour, so if we divide the 500 nautical miles by 60 minutes we get 8.3 nautical miles per minute. That is the distance the aircraft travels over the ground in one minutes of time. Just trust me with this,,, one nautical mile is 6,080feet, therefore 8.3 nautical miles x 6,080 feet is 50,464 feet in horizontal distance travelled per minute. If we then divide the 50,464 feet per minute by 60 seconds we get 841 feet per second.

Therefore when you look up and see the aircraft pulling a trail it is moving through the air at 841 feet per second, which is how they achieve the 1.4 tonnes of air compressed through the engines /per second per engine in order to produce the 97,000 lbs of thrust that’s required. The technology has moved on from the 1970's and that is what you aren’t told on the conspiracy websites.

Go now outside your home and walk your dog from your house door for 841 feet or 256 metres and then stop and look back at your home. That is how far the aircraft travels over the ground in one second. In that one second the engines will consume or compress 2.8 tonnes of air. Look at the distance to your home again. The 2.8 tonnes of air go through the engine in less than one second thus producing the huge contrail. In the Rolls engine Nozzle Guide Vanes direct the gas from the combustion chamber onto the turbines are a staggering 2,500 feet per second. It's not like the garden hose. They are monsters...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolls-Royce_Trent_XWB

Here is another way of looking at this problem. Those of you who live in mid or northerly latitudes have no excuse for not understanding this. You folks from Australia and equatorial regions won't experience this problem so you are excused! Here is the question.

Why is it, in winter when you take the car from the garage and drive down the road, and especially when parked up at traffic lights you can physically see the exhaust smoke coming from the exhaust pipe of the car.?

And why is it when in the same car that came from the same garage in summer, while parked at the same traffic lights, why is it you can't see the exhaust smoke from the exhaust pipe of the car?

In summery, in winter you can see the exhaust smoke, while in summer you cant. Why is this?

[Whiskey_Mystic]

Lots of good info and videos on this thread.

I'm confused by the title of the thread. If chemtrails were a myth, what would that have to do with the new age spiritual movement? What would be the connection there?

[Fred259]

What is going on here I wonder. Are these chemtrails? Is this Rothschild and the NWO spraying the ocean!

Why is it clear in the forground , while behind the baldes its mist and then fog.

PS These are naturally produced condensation trails, just like the aeroplanes.

[Whiskey_Mystic]

Fred, do you have any idea where these are located? I know that California seeds mercury iodide, but I've never heard of them doing it from windmills and they usually do it on mountaintops.

Also wondering if this could be a natural phenomenon.

[Whiskey_Mystic]

I live in northern California. Chemtrails have become normal here every day and people have gotten used to it. I've been here long enough to remember that the sky was once different.

My father was career Air Force and moved to Shasta a few years ago. Soon after he moved he began telling me about odd patterns and activity in the sky. My father is a very conservative guy and laughs at any and all conspiracy theories. I showed him some articles and exposed him to several theories and told him we really don't know for sure what is going on, but something is indeed going on.

My father, who has spent his life around aircraft and aerial phenomenon, absolutely agrees that what we are seeing are not normal contrails. It is true that in certain rare conditions, long-lived contrails are created. However, they are not created every day, in patterns, and then spread out to cover the sky in haze. And that's what we see all summer long in Shasta and other parts of northern California.

We may not know exactly what chemtrails are, though I think I have a pretty good idea myself at this point, but anyone who does not believe that chemtrails exist simply isn't paying attention or is choosing a belief over empirical observation. The question of whether or not they exist should be long over by now.

P.S. I was in India for a month and I didn't see a single chemtrail while I was there. The sky was blue except for an occasional jet contrail, which lasted a few minutes and was gone.

[Fred259]

Posted by Whiskey_Mystic (here)
Fred, do you have any idea where these are located? I know that California seeds mercury iodide, but I've never heard of them doing it from windmills and they usually do it on mountaintops.

Also wondering if this could be a natural phenomenon.

Yes, its a natural phenomenon, its nature. The wind turbine blades are rotating and mixing the air which is supersaturated with moisture. The mixing has caused the supersaturated air to condense out and form mist and then fog.

Conversely, in front of the blades in the foreground of the picture the air is still supersaturated but the moisture is held in the atmosphere in a gaseous state which is why its clear.

This is the problem, you only get half the story.

When we then transpose this science into jet trails what we are saying is that if the atmosphere is unstable and supersaturated you are going to get heavy jet trails.

If the atmosphere is stable and the air is able to hold moisture in a gaseous state (i.e. an invisible gas) you won't get any trails. Appreciate however that the aircraft are still passing overhead.

[ThePythonicCow]

The presence of benign means to produce "chemtrail" like (appearing) effects in the sky does not prove the absence of malign means, nor the absence of their malicious use.

[Fred259]

Posted by Whiskey_Mystic (here)
I live in northern California. Chemtrails have become normal here every day and people have gotten used to it. I've been here long enough to remember that the sky was once different.

My father was career Air Force and moved to Shasta a few years ago. Soon after he moved he began telling me about odd patterns and activity in the sky. My father is a very conservative guy and laughs at any and all conspiracy theories. I showed him some articles and exposed him to several theories and told him we really don't know for sure what is going on, but something is indeed going on.

My father, who has spent his life around aircraft and aerial phenomenon, absolutely agrees that what we are seeing are not normal contrails. It is true that in certain rare conditions, long-lived contrails are created. However, they are not created every day, in patterns, and then spread out to cover the sky in haze. And that's what we see all summer long in Shasta and other parts of northern California.

We may not know exactly what chemtrails are, though I think I have a pretty good idea myself at this point, but anyone who does not believe that chemtrails exist simply isn't paying attention or is choosing a belief over empirical observation. The question of whether or not they exist should be long over by now.

P.S. I was in India for a month and I didn't see a single chemtrail while I was there. The sky was blue except for an occasional jet contrail, which lasted a few minutes and was gone.

I agree Mount Shasta is quite unique it does produce its own weather. At 10,000 feet it rises above the Californian plain. Vast amounts of air is blowing in from the west pacific ocean which is both warm and moist. As this air passes over the much warmer windward side and the land mass towards Mount Shasta it becomes unstable and its this instability that causes clouds to build and rise. As the air is forced to rise against the mountains including the Rockies the temperature decrease at the saturated adiabatic lapse rate forming clouds and condensation which falls as snow (on shasta). On the lee side of the mountain range the air warms at the dry adiabatic lapse rate and so the lee side of the Rockies for example is much warmer and less humid compared with the west.

Mount Shasta is also a key node, some would say Stargate on the World Wide Grid.

[kaon]

I have really been enjoying this thread and had already viewed a few of the videos. There is absolutely no question in my mind that they are real and happening daily somewhere in the US.

My own observations have showed me that the chem trails in my State are happening at least 3 days per week. I live near an airport in NY. On Memorial day I hosted a BBQ in my back yard. This year is was sunny and pleasant. I watched the sky waiting for the chem trails and oddly enough by noon time, none were present. In fact, they didn't even start the spraying that day until about 3 pm. I then watched planes taking off at an exact trajectory about every hour. The planes would then disappear from sight from my view and reenter at a specific pattern while forming the chem trails. I watched this pattern go on until about 9:30 pm. The sky was still slightly illuminated (by light pollution), and that was the latest that I had seen the spraying done. Since then, I have noticed the spraying does go on well after sunset which really made me question the theory that the chem trails were being used to reflect the Sun's rays back into the atmosphere. It would seem to be fruitless to do so after sunset.

Another observation I had made last month was the enormous length of some of the chem trails. I was driving from NY to South central PA and keeping my eye in the sky while the spraying was being done. I am telling you, one of these chem trails must have been at least 50 to 60 miles long. I kept watching it as I drove through a good part on NJ. The spraying was being done by at least a dozen planes as I watched new chem trails being formed during my entire trip of 5 hours across 3 states.

The question is not whether they fact or fiction, but why. My eyes have not been lying to me.
Theories abound, I haven't quite made up my mind yet as to the real purpose/s, but I am getting no positive vibes out of this at all.

[Whiskey_Mystic]

Posted by Fred259 (here)

Posted by Whiskey_Mystic (here)
Fred, do you have any idea where these are located? I know that California seeds mercury iodide, but I've never heard of them doing it from windmills and they usually do it on mountaintops.

Also wondering if this could be a natural phenomenon.

Yes, its a natural phenomenon, its nature. The wind turbine blades are rotating and mixing the air which is supersaturated with moisture. The mixing has caused the supersaturated air to condense out and form mist and then fog.

Conversely, in front of the blades in the foreground of the picture the air is still supersaturated but the moisture is held in the atmosphere in a gaseous state which is why its clear.

This is the problem, you only get half the story.

When we then transpose this science into jet trails what we are saying is that if the atmosphere is unstable and supersaturated you are going to get heavy jet trails.

If the atmosphere is stable and the air is able to hold moisture in a gaseous state (i.e. an invisible gas) you won't get any trails. Appreciate however that the aircraft are still passing overhead.

I appreciate your input, but you are still not addressing why we see these aircraft flying grid patterns day in and day out. Why do these "contrails" then spread out and cover the sky with a haze?

[Fred259]

[QUOTE=Whiskey_Mystic;723771]

I appreciate your input, but you are still not addressing why we see these aircraft flying grid patterns day in and day out.

What you call Grid patterns are highways in the skies normally established around navigational beacons with entry and exit lanes into terminal areas that protect major airport hubs.

Why do these "contrails" then spread out and cover the sky with a haze?

Sometimes the contrails spread out and cover the sky with a haze and sometimes they don’t

Sometimes the clouds spread out and cover the sky with a haze and sometimes they don’t.

This is what people report including post #129. They write sometimes we see the chemtrails and on other days they are not spraying. The reason for this is that they have been conditioned to think about spraying, chemtrails and such like rather than understanding what is really going on.

The answer to your question is that the clouds spread out and the contrails spread out because the atmosphere is supersaturated and is no longer able to hold moisture in a gaseous state. Condensation occurs and the clouds and contrails spread out as you correctly point out.

Conversely if the atmosphere is unsaturated the moisture that is found in the clouds and the moisture that is found in contrails still exists, EXCEPT its exists as a gas or in a gaseous state, so you cant see the moisture. When the atmosphere is unsaturated clouds and contrails don’t form.

[Whiskey_Mystic]

Posted by Fred259 (here)

Posted by Whiskey_Mystic (here)

I appreciate your input, but you are still not addressing why we see these aircraft flying grid patterns day in and day out.

What you call Grid patterns are highways in the skies normally established around navigational beacons with entry and exit lanes into terminal areas that protect major airport hubs.

Allow me to clarify. I watch individual aircraft make these grid patterns. I watch them cross the sky, turn, and proceed to make the grid pattern. This is not my misunderstanding of air traffic lanes. Have you noticed that you make a lot of assumptions to support your position?

[Fred259]

Posted by Whiskey_Mystic (here)

Posted by Fred259 (here)

Posted by Whiskey_Mystic (here)

I appreciate your input, but you are still not addressing why we see these aircraft flying grid patterns day in and day out.

What you call Grid patterns are highways in the skies normally established around navigational beacons with entry and exit lanes into terminal areas that protect major airport hubs.

Allow me to clarify. I watch individual aircraft make these grid patterns. I watch them cross the sky, turn, and proceed to make the grid pattern. This is not my misunderstanding of air traffic lanes. Have you noticed that you make a lot of assumptions to support your position?

It doesn’t matter what way they are flying up and down around in circles or inside out

What matters is one of two things. If the atmosphere able to hold moisture in a vaporised or gaseous state in which case no contrail will form, or is the atmosphere unable to hold moisture in a gaseous state, in which case a contrail will form.

I’m not making any assumptions at all. I’m just telling you facts based on 35 years experience. The airline industry doesn’t work on assumptions.

[Bill Ryan]

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=fCohucT7FmQ

Fred259, please watch this video. Thanks.

[ketikoti]

A lot of so-called chemtrails are probably contrails - Guest essay by Dr. Tim Ball:
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/09/0...tific-context/

[Wind]

No chemtrails in third world countries = massive deadly weather changes there. Chemtrails in western countries = mostly mild weather changes compared to the third world countries.

[FraZZleD]

I read about 2 pages of replies and decided to post what I know and researched. Much of what was said on this subject I've read or watched a video on the internet. Here's something to think about..... or research on your own. One person said that chemtrails can cause Autism. Well I did read somewhere that a study was done on the Amish Communities and there was no Autism within their group of people. They have chemtrails over their farms and towns just like the rest of us. If chemtrails were connected in any way then they would surely have one person that would have Autism. They have non.

Next I was told by someone that Chemtrails will never be sprayed when the President comes to town. I watched during the campaigning season. Every time the President was to show up, guess what? No chemtrails were in the sky! I didn't believe the person that told me that but it really did happen..... just like they said. So my question is does anyone live near the white house? Do they spray chemtrails over the white house ever? I'd be curious to know.

I've been a sky watcher my entire life from childhood. When I saw the first chemtrail it started back in the early 80's in Calif. I pointed it out to people but no one ever said a thing. It bothered me from day one when I first saw it. Little by little it became more and more. When I left Calif. all they had were smeary skies and that was 1989. When I got to where I moved to I saw real clouds again. Then it started happening where I moved to. Now we have days of just smeary skies again!

I had a house out in the country. I woke up early one morning to the sound of planes. I did not live in a path of flying planes so I got up really fast to see what was causing all the noise. When I looked out my front door there where 6 planes flying side by side flying from east to west they were military planes spraying chemtrails. They turned all at the same time just behind my house and created a checkerboard in the sky. When they turned they were flying from south to north criss crossing the lines they had already made. I had lived for about 5 years there and never saw any planes except super high in the sky. These planes were lower and very loud. I took pictures of the sky as they were streaking across. The clouds lingered and spread and became a massive smear in the sky.

The newspaper here reported that Congressman Dennis Kucinich called it Chemtrails while talking about HR 2977. That's a Congressman calling it Chemtrails.... An official of a government office.

One more thing to think about... Why is the secret so secret and kept a secret so well? Because they lie to the people doing the spraying and they think they are helping the world by what they are told. People who thinks their government won't lie to them. People who sign a contract stating they will not talk about what they do!!!! Don't all government agencies sign that same contract?

Considering the fact that Dwight Eisenhower's speech warned about guarding against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military–industrial complex.
And Kennedy said there is very grave danger that an announced need for increased security will be seized upon those anxious to expand its meaning to the very limits of official censorship and concealment.
There have been many warnings from past government officials...... of what was coming...... If we didn't ask the right questions and make the government accountable.

Well these are my questions....What is being done to the skies that were not being done before the 80's and why? Because so far I haven't seen a answer that satisfies me.

[Whiskey_Mystic]

I had forgotten that Kucinich had said that chemtrails were real when he was in Santa Cruz around 8 years ago. He clammed up, but he did want us to know that.

[Fred259]

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=fCohucT7FmQ

Fred259, please watch this video. Thanks.

Hi Bill,

I had a quick look at your video, and I have to say I am shocked that you of all people with a respected degree from Bristol would be posting up this nonsense. Its complete disinformation and total utter nonsense.

The video is the usual 100% rubbish, I say again I can't believe you are posting this let alone believing it what is being reported. It's the usual format, a 20 minutes video that starts with Bechtel Corporation and scare scare scare. Next up images of wind turbines and global warming, more scare scare scare this is then followed by a 3 minute voice-over on the UN with accompanying pictures than mean nothing. The UN is followed by 4 minutes on EMF radiation scare, cell phones and the old favourite HAARP, followed by more scare. Then geo-engineering which means chemtrails barium and a whole lot of dogs nonsense. The geo-engineering is supported by images of ballast tanks in the cabins of test aircraft which are used to pump water fore and aft over the centre of gravity and centre of pressure by test engineers prior to certification of new aircraft in places like Seattle, Toulouse or Bristol Filton. The public have no understanding of aeronautical testing and evaluation and so deception lies and confusion wins.

So what is this video about? Nothing. They have nothing sensible to say which is why the content changes every three minutes. Misinformation confusing and disinformation. It's a 20 minutes scare video on nothing. Notice how they introduce subjects that are well outwith the knowledge and understanding of the vast majority of mankind.

90% of the content on the alternative media is produced facilitated and funded by those who 90% of the good folks who read the alternative media, totally and utterly despise. It's called controlling public opinion.

My favourite book is by Christopher Andrew who is the Professor of History at Cambridge ISBN 0 340 48561 – “KGB the Inside Story of its Foreign Operations from Lenin to Gorbachev” 661 pages in hardback, a masterpiece containing the complete history of Europe over the last 100 years.

The book also goes into great detail of how the Russian people were deceived by a tyrannical regime who used every trick available including deception, character assassination, smears and a multitude of other methods. In sixty short years between 1910 and 1970 the communists slaughtered 80 million people, the so called enemies of the state. Think about that for one moment in 60 years or 21,900 days the communists murdered 80,000,000 human beings, that’s 3,652 per day or 152 of every hour of every day.

What is happpening within the alternative media is part of that deception, part of that trickery which in the fullness of time will have devastating consequences for the majority of mankind.

People need be able to differentiate between fact and fiction. It is complete fiction for example that 19 muslins flew aircraft into the World Trade Centre, however a considerable number of Americans and Europeans believe they did exactly that. Those who don’t believe the official line on 9/11 pose a risk to those who were really responsible for 9/11, and so they control the alternative media to keep you away from the truth about 9/11 as well as other equally serious matters that effect our lives.

Chemtrails is just another nonsense story to keep the alternative media looking into the sky while the really serious issues which in my opinion include the control of money, the loss of democracy through subversion, and very serious issues such as Syria are able to continue unabated.

[sdv]

Posted by Wind (here)
No chemtrails in third world countries = massive deadly weather changes there. Chemtrails in western countries = mostly mild weather changes compared to the third world countries.

I am not convinced that it is that simple as Gaia is very interconnected. Scientists specialise and so I doubt that there is any scientist that understands the whole and all the parts.

I live in a 'third world' country. This winter has been the coldest I can remember, and very wet, and it only started getting cold mid-June, which is supposed to be mid-winter here. I also do not live under a flight path so, no planes in the sky at all.

I have read both sides of the chemtrails debate. Those who believe that what they are seeing in the sky are chemtrails are very resistant to facts. Those who believe that what they are seeing are contrails provide a lot of logical and common-sense facts, but do not consider that even if they are contrails, there probably is a reason to be worried that the sky is being obscured by trails. Plus, scientists in the 'first world' have been experimenting and advocating for chemtrails (fact because papers presented at conferences, patents, and so on do exist) and there is not enough public debate about this. It's our sky - let's debate vigorously before you start messing with it. The debate seems to be confined to the alternative community, where it is debunked or ignored. Not good!

Human beings are adaptable. We have the right to choose to adapt to climate change rather than spray all sorts of stuff into our atmosphere.

Going back to the question of 'third world' countries not being protected from climate change. There is scare-mongering in that children at school are taught that 'third world' countries will suffer the most from climate change. What children are not taught is that we are also better equipped to adapt; for example, in Africa, we do not need central heating to survive the winter. We use blankets. (My dearly departed Mom knitted blankets for us from scraps of wool and then sewed a backing on it, so in the winter we sit around with Mom's blankets wrapped around us!

Besides, I don't think that 'first world' countries will be protected from climate change by spraying stuff in the atmosphere. Really? Global winds and ocean currents?