Did Jesus Really exist?

[Darla Ken Pearce]

The Christ Conspiracy, The Greatest Story Ever Sold, Acharya S. (Mentioned by Conk)

---------------------

Here is a link to this book in .pdf format, so you can check it out for yourself.

http://files.meetup.com/1364309/Acha...20Sold%20(.pdf

[Popol Vuh]

great article thanks

[1 flew over]

Posted by good point (here)
When I hear

"God have mercy on me"

it's sort of like: 'God pass me the basket full of money', which in fact, mercy is like money.

Posted by marlowe (here)
any logical ,realistic person will see that ,in FACT,Jesus never existed...

When I think of logical, realistic facts. I think of the mercy that wasn't given by Jesus when he told his disciples to bear arms. Money was rebelled against, openly and aggressively, by Jesus. The aristocracy, those of status wouldn't hear the confession of Jesus. Jesus is Christ. Jesus, the Son of Man. Jesus, the God. Jesus' being crucified wasn't an apologist. It was the disciples that acted as apostles. Caesar was an emperor family. They have resembling names. Rome and Vatican City were both corrupted. Jesus was smeared by the money changers in the temple.

Sorry dude but I am not sure what you are saying. What I was talking about was him saying that we all can have a conversation or mental exchange with the combined consciousness that has been called Great Spirit, Brahman, Krishna, Yahweh, Samba, Wakan Tanka, God, Quantum Consciousness and many other names throughout history. Some call this communication Christ Consciousness which has nothing to do with thoughts about Christ but the awareness’s of Christ and other ascended masters.
Do I think that the person that we are calling Jesus was screwed over by the money changers and those in power? On a physical level has that changed for any of us throughout history? The powers that be are scared to death of anyone who starts pointing to a way to be disconnected from the current game of life on planet earth.

Be Well
1 Flew Over

[good point]

Posted by 1 flew over (here)
Do I think that the person that we are calling Jesus was screwed over by the money changers and those in power? On a physical level has that changed for any of us throughout history? The powers that be are scared to death of anyone who starts pointing to a way to be disconnected from the current game of life on planet earth.

None of your text before these questions matter. To realize that your basis of this knowledge is because of a double think standard, you have lost your own answer while accepting theirs. Among those that disclaim responsibility, there are those that don't care at all. They aren't scared until you brake the law in front of them. That's the truth.

[Vitalux]

Posted by Darla Ken Jensen Pearce (here)
The Christ Conspiracy, The Greatest Story Ever Sold, Acharya S. (Mentioned by Conk)

---------------------

Here is a link to this book in .pdf format, so you can check it out for yourself.

http://files.meetup.com/1364309/Acha...20Sold%20(.pdf

Thank you, I was starting to wonder if I was alone in this place.
I'll definitely add this to my list of books to read.

It is amusing I find to see circular reasoning to establish ones foundations in Christianity.

Was Jesus Born in a manger by a virgin? .... No that was a lie

Was Jesus the Son of God who impregnated ( by hocus pocus ) a virgin named Mary?
No, that was a lie too ( *please ignore the English names like John, Mary, Peter and Paul even though the story was suppose to happen in Hebrew Land)

Did Jesus Walk on Water? ....Umm....no that was a lie also.

Did Jesus bring a dead man back to life? No, that was a lie too

Did Jesus even die on a cross? No that was a lie too

Is it true that there are about 20 different stories of sons of God born in a manger, having 12 disciples, and being crucified, were they for real? No, those were lies too



So than Jesus was a lie, a fake, never was born, never died? Well

Some guy, said to be Julius Caesar's & Cleopatra's son walked around and spoke about Buddhist philosophy is the real Jesus Christ.

So just apply circular logic to being a Christian and it will all make sense.

Well it don't make sense to me

[marlowe]

Posted by Vitalux (here)

Some guy, said to be Julius Caesar's & Cleopatra's son walked around and spoke about Buddhist philosophy is the real Jesus Christ.

I've been a reader of books all my 60+ years.......I've always been trying to find more information about Jesus...I read The Christ Conspiracy & other books about Jesus...I don't believe in all the miracles & virgin birth nonsense...

However when I read King Jesus by Ralph Ellis I was thunderstruck..It made perfect sense to me...The real

Jesus was a rebel leader who led the revolt against Rome ...His wife was named Martha.he ruled over 2 cities in eastern Syria & he had 2 brothers who's names are the same as the fictional Jesus ...He had a small army of about 60 mounted archers...etc...He was a Gnostic....I no longer wonder who the historical Jesus is....I'm convinced I know......It's a good feeling.............

EDit to add:.
"I do not come to bring peace,but with a sword." Jesus
I simply cannot believe Jesus was a pacifist. What possible good would nonviolent
resistance do againt the might of Rome 2 thousand years ago. The Romans watched
gladiatorial fights to the death for entertainment.

[panopticon]

Posted by marlowe (here)
The second part is understanding that the Jesus of the New Testament is fiction...
Joseph Atwill has proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that the New Testament is fiction..
The problem is it will take you 33 minutes to understand that fact..here is the 33 minute video...

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=4UqG8w7ezUQ

G'day Marlowe,

I watched the Atwill vid you provided.

As I said before it's an interesting hypothesis Atwill has presented however I think there are a number of possible flaws in his argument.

I'm a tad short of time at the moment however 2 quick examples hopefully will illustrate what I'm on about.

Atwill makes extensive reference to Josephus' 'The Wars Of The Jews'.

For example he references Book 5, Chapter 6 Verse 3 and the use of alternate translation from the Greek. He states that it should read 'THE SON COMETH' as opposed to the usual translation 'THE STONE COMETH'. He then extends the bow and says this is evidence that Josephus is talking about Jesus...

My immediate reaction was that he didn't know that Titus was Vespesian's son and that he also wasn't aware that Josephus had been spared by Vespasian/Titus. In return Josephus wrote that Vespasian was divine. From this, if we accept Atwill's use of Whiston's alternate translation from Dents 1915 text, then it is more than possible the reference is to Titus the Son of Vespasian...

Josephus makes reference to Vespasian and Titus in this manner earlier in War:

'Thou, O Vespasian, art Caesar and emperor, thou, and this thy son. Bind me now still faster, and keep me for thyself, for thou, O Caesar, are not only lord over me, but over the land and the sea, and all mankind; and certainly I deserve to be kept in closer custody than I now am in, in order to be punished, if I rashly affirm any thing of God.'
(Source)

But, I'm not convinced that this is the case as the translation to STONE makes more sense in the context of the passage:

'Now the stones that were cast were of the weight of a talent, and were carried two furlongs and further. The blow they gave was no way to be sustained, not only by those that stood first in the way, but by those that were beyond them for a great space. As for the Jews, they at first watched the coming of the stone, for it was of a white color, and could therefore not only be perceived by the great noise it made, but could be seen also before it came by its brightness; accordingly the watchmen that sat upon the towers gave them notice when the engine was let go, and the stone came from it, and cried out aloud, in their own country language, THE STONE COMETH so those that were in its way stood off, and threw themselves down upon the ground; by which means, and by their thus guarding themselves, the stone fell down and did them no harm. But the Romans contrived how to prevent that by blacking the stone, who then could aim at them with success, when the stone was not discerned beforehand, as it had been till then; and so they destroyed many of them at one blow.'
(Source)

So that was my first example. Next is Atwill's acceptance in his text of the Testimonium Flavianum (which he refers to as the 'Testimonium Josephus'). The text in question is (Antiquities Book 18, Chapter 3, Section 3:

'Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man; for he was a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews and many of the Gentiles. He was [the] Christ. And when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him; for he appeared to them alive again the third day; as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him. And the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day.
(Source)

It is commonly understood that this was a later addition to the Antiquities that was probably added post-3rd Century CE as Eusebius (4th Century) makes reference to it but Origen (3rd-Century) states that Josephus didn't believe Jesus was the Messiah and makes no mention of the Testimonium Flavianum despite mentioning other passages within Josephus' writings.

So Atwill runs through 24 pages of intricate argument that ignores the obvious position that the passage is a later addition. Here are the surrounding passages and see how they flow better as a story if the TF section (above) is removed:

'2. But Pilate undertook to bring a current of water to Jerusalem, and did it with the sacred money, and derived the origin of the stream from the distance of two hundred furlongs. However, the Jews were not pleased with what had been done about this water; and many ten thousands of the people got together, and made a clamor against him, and insisted that he should leave off that design. Some of them also used reproaches, and abused the man, as crowds of such people usually do. So he habited a great number of his soldiers in their habit, who carried daggers under their garments, and sent them to a place where they might surround them. So he bid the Jews himself go away; but they boldly casting reproaches upon him, he gave the soldiers that signal which had been beforehand agreed on; who laid upon them much greater blows than Pilate had commanded them, and equally punished those that were tumultuous, and those that were not; nor did they spare them in the least: and since the people were unarmed, and were caught by men prepared for what they were about, there were a great number of them slain by this means, and others of them ran away wounded. And thus an end was put to this sedition.

3. <removed>

4. About the same time another sad calamity put the Jews into disorder, and certain shameful practices happened about the temple of Isis that was at Rome. I will now first take notice of the wicked attempt about the temple of Isis, and will then give an account of the Jewish affairs. There was at Rome a woman whose name was Paulina; one who, on account of the dignity of her ancestors, and by the regular conduct of a virtuous life, had a great reputation: she was also very rich; and although she was of a beautiful countenance, and in that flower of her age wherein women are the most gay, yet did she lead a life of great modesty...'
(Source)

It's thought that an early church scribe was reading the above and noticed that while Pilate was being talked about Jesus wasn't. The scribe viewed it as an oversight and either added it directly to the page, or put it in the side of the column and a transcription error occurred, bringing the segment into the mainstream and being adopted as the official text.

So that's my position on this hypothesis.

I find the idea overly contrived and it would appear that Atwill went looking for a connection between the Flavians and the gospels, as opposed to taking the evidence and then reviewing it within its historical/cultural contexts and other writings from both that period and later early Church authors before reaching a decision.

All seems very similar to the 70's hypothesis around the Piso Conspiracy and 'The True Authorship of the Bible' which we've talked about here before.

Book here.

Vespasian can also be linked to the Piso's and the above tried to say that Josephus was Arrius Piso.

Plus there's the hypothesis that it was all linked to a re-write of Homer's Odyessy (I gave a list of sources in another thread regards the Mythic Jesus hypothesis)

I don't agree and, as I've said before, think that the constructed mythology was created organically. This doesn't discount of course the use of typology or other literary devices as mention in the Homer thread, just that it wasn't as contrived as Atwill etc posit.

Must tootle. Bit busy for the next week so any detailed response would have to be after then.
Kind Regards,
Panopticon

[1 flew over]

Posted by good point (here)
None of your text before these questions matter. To realize that your basis of this knowledge is because of a double think standard, you have lost your own answer while accepting theirs. Among those that disclaim responsibility, there are those that don't care at all. They aren't scared until you brake the law in front of them. That's the truth.

Response

I believe the thread had to do with “Did Jesus Really exist”.
Do I think there was a person named Yeshua that existed right around 2000+ years ago? That traveled with women as equals to men, who did not follow many of the rules of the Hebrews or the occupying Romans, that reached enlightenment and lost the duality that so pervades western thought. Who used his love for a woman to help build and feel higher levels of emotion and thought. That stated that he was a son of God as ye are also sons of God, also stated that you are capable of reaching greater heights than he was able to. That when speaking through his one mindedness his followers who were probably illiterate had no clue as to what he was saying. (The apostles Thomas, Mary M and Judas probably better than most) Who was a practicing shaman and using his connection to a higher energy source could help others to become healed. Who primarily spoke about loving others and living peacefully together? Yes I am beginning to.

Do I think that there was a human symbol that has been named Jesus by a conquering force and was used as a tool to distort and control humanity, to further drive a wedge between mankind, that had his words so misunderstood, added to and intentionally distorted to add to the degradation of women and people other than white males and all people of other religions and beliefs. That raised people from the dead after three days (yuck, kinda smelly) That tried to imply that he was the one and only true God. That he has been used as one of the reasons or justifications to kill millions of people, create chaos and anarchy over the last 2000 years. Yes, I have thought that for a long time.

Do I believe that by praising him as my Lord will I be saved for all eternity? No He never said that I would. I am an energy form and cannot be destroyed. My body can die, it reminds me of that all the time.
Am I a Christian? No way. There is way too much baggage connected to the concept. I’m probably a lot closer to being a Buddhist. Just a spiritual entity having a human experience.

OOOOHH NOOO! It looks like I am way past a double think standard. Since in our current western culture more is always better and since I have many viewpoints, even though none of them are me, I must be SUPER HUMAN. Damn dude thanks for helping me work that one out.

Be Well

1 Flew Over

[Bill Ryan]

Posted by Vitalux (here)

Thank you, I was starting to wonder if I was alone in this place.
I'll definitely add this to my list of books to read.

It is amusing I find to see circular reasoning to establish ones foundations in Christianity.

Was Jesus Born in a manger by a virgin? .... No that was a lie

Was Jesus the Son of God who impregnated ( by hocus pocus ) a virgin named Mary?
No, that was a lie too ( *please ignore the English names like John, Mary, Peter and Paul even though the story was suppose to happen in Hebrew Land)

Did Jesus Walk on Water? ....Umm....no that was a lie also.

Did Jesus bring a dead man back to life? No, that was a lie too

Did Jesus even die on a cross? No that was a lie too

Is it true that there are about 20 different stories of sons of God born in a manger, having 12 disciples, and being crucified, were they for real? No, those were lies too

So than Jesus was a lie, a fake, never was born, never died? Well

Nope, that's illogical (to conclude that because the surrounding disinfo mythology was invented, then Jesus the Teacher was invented as well). You're forgetting that disinformation is specifically engineered to obscure the truth.

The important question is: What was the real truth? The point I'm making in this thread is that to the Roman Church, it must have been worth obscuring.

Looks you you never properly read my opening post on the The real Jesus, the real Mary, Gnosis, the Archons, and the world's first major smear campaign thread .... please find a moment to read it again.

[good point]

Posted by Vitalux (here)

Posted by Darla Ken Jensen Pearce (here)
The Christ Conspiracy, The Greatest Story Ever Sold, Acharya S. (Mentioned by Conk)

---------------------

Here is a link to this book in .pdf format, so you can check it out for yourself.

http://files.meetup.com/1364309/Acha...20Sold%20(.pdf

Thank you, I was starting to wonder if I was alone in this place.
I'll definitely add this to my list of books to read.

It is amusing I find to see circular reasoning to establish ones foundations in Christianity.

Was Jesus Born in a manger by a virgin? .... No that was a lie

Was Jesus the Son of God who impregnated ( by hocus pocus ) a virgin named Mary?
No, that was a lie too ( *please ignore the English names like John, Mary, Peter and Paul even though the story was suppose to happen in Hebrew Land)

Did Jesus Walk on Water? ....Umm....no that was a lie also.

Did Jesus bring a dead man back to life? No, that was a lie too

Did Jesus even die on a cross? No that was a lie too

Is it true that there are about 20 different stories of sons of God born in a manger, having 12 disciples, and being crucified, were they for real? No, those were lies too



So than Jesus was a lie, a fake, never was born, never died? Well

Some guy, said to be Julius Caesar's & Cleopatra's son walked around and spoke about Buddhist philosophy is the real Jesus Christ.

So just apply circular logic to being a Christian and it will all make sense.

Well it don't make sense to me

The personal is political

[Fred Steeves]

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
The important question is: What was the real truth? The point I'm making in this thread is that to the Roman Church, it must have been worth obscuring.

Looks you you never properly read my opening post.... please find a moment to read it again.

Oops, wrong thread Bill. Marlowe wrote the opening post here.

[BrandoComando]

Wow. This is a great thread. I've recently been researching this very topic. I never believed Jesus existed and then after doing some research I started to suspect that he probably did exist after all although probably not as depicted in the Bible as the Messiah. Now I'm starting to reconsider his existence again since it does seem the evidence for Jesus being partially derived from Caesar is strong. Very interesting.

[marlowe]

Posted by BrandoComando (here)
Wow. This is a great thread. I've recently been researching this very topic. I never believed Jesus existed and then after doing some research I started to suspect that he probably did exist after all although probably not as depicted in the Bible as the Messiah. Now I'm starting to reconsider his existence again since it does seem the evidence for Jesus being partially derived from Caesar is strong. Very interesting.

@B randoComando>>>Here is the third book in Ralph Ellis
s trilogy about the REAL historical Jesus...video is down the page of this link.....
http://mikephilbin.blogspot.com/2013...of-edessa.html

This is the book the the Catholic has been dreading for the last 17 hundred years...

[Delight]

I suspect there have been many Christed beings, maybe especially over 2000 tears ago at the "time" of the degeneration of the Matriarchal cycle? Jesus could be taking the personification of a wave of evolutionary beings who came to remind people of our responsibility for balance and the rewards of honoring one another???

There is always a polar switch back in energy signature when the dominant vibration degrades. This is all lawful. I think that the more chaos there is, the greater the potential for magic. Some have even claimed this is the earth benefit and why sould like embodiment. There is much potential and someone uses that. It might as well be us?

I think we are seeing the Divine magic makers return again, Christed and Magdalened both. The Divine Feminine is dishonored. The Divine masculine is dishonered. There is chaos.

We make meaning. We are powerful creators right now. We are magnificent decoders of frequency in the body. That is why the body/mind connection is an inward journey. We are meant to be glorious and in wholeness like the Son of man.

We can regain 360 degree capacity as we get whole. We expand and we have a new perception > There are various ways to awaken the senses but the FIRST thing is the faith that these capacities are ours!

We have to have faith and we have to give that to self with a compassionate love. But ai believe the fruit is just waiting...feeling in touch with the Divne personally. We can approach trusting by agreeing to be aware that there COULD BE a personal relationship to the Presence within us. We can access the higher mind the GAIA mind and the higher inner depths of the heart. We can be guided in a very genius way!

That is why we need to have the ability to reach inside. The self compassion that is the compassion from the feeling of the Presence is the personal experience of "Goddness"

If the information always must be presented but may be twisted, the archetype of each of us having these abilities would be a threat.

Natural earth based teachings of empowerment were deliberately wiped away. The truth is, the earth frequency is high and we get high by going deep into the inner (underworld). GAIA is alive and there are many layers to life. Knowing this From a Christed perspective, is to me the way to experience heavenly earth.

I sincerely believe we are meant to have magical abilities. So I accept all the reports are true: Jesus did have a light body, teleport, bilocate and teach all the tribes and he was able to visit everywhere. Maybe several could and the Roman Cult used the capacity of many and made it a "special"and inaccessible ideal so we would not even try to emulate the teachings. Also demonized self empowerment.

The Pagans were wiped out by the Roman cult. Patriarchy is now degraded. The Mayans and others say the Feminine is returning. The Masculine cycle is now giving way to the female cycle. We can have a whole new balance within, bringing all the Feminine that we ever rejected back into our awareness. .

We are able to have our own individual experience in this natural relationship with high frequency GAIA. I believe life is richer and we feel even MORE real as we sink deep into spirit in matter. It is not a fall but the integration of being in experience as Hu Man, awakening of full body LIFE. Didn't we get warned away from this path? Hummmm.....

Our beloved Presence, available and waiting in the heart says" I AM true Hu man. Christ is not outside and is always with us.The Magdalene is there with HIM." That to me is the big secret.

[skippy]

Just back from a reversed time travel in a parallel universe to check and see by myself. Here goes some undeniable proof put onto film. Took my camera with me, hehe..

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=0uMJYQ9LKGQ

[Veiled Rain]

Either way--it is all a pragmatic discussion

Supposition

Our internal guide/ compass tells each individual what is correct for him/her to believe
There can be as many demonstrative facts as you want to give---are we all not capable of reaching our own conclusions?
The ones that sit right with our spirit

Fact/fiction/Myth/allegory/illusion/fable/delusion/legend/lore/parable
Choose any of the above terms and link them with your being and decipher what causes a reactive thought

[Vitalux]

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
Looks you you never properly read my opening post on the url thread... please find a moment to read it again.

Bill I am going to either blame my spirit guide or the devil for making me type that.

I never met that guy Jesus in person, but I am sure he was a swell fellow

[Finefeather]

Hi Bill
I have to bump this part of your post, because it is the best summary of the situation I have ever read in my entire life...thank you for it.
I would like to suggest that you put this up on the front page of Avalon...and leave it there! The dark ones who are responsible for the chaos in the world MUST know that we are onto them and this could be our biggest statement to date...right in their face.

I would tend to be more optimistic than you have cautiously stated..."we're still in with a chance".
Despite the seeming death grip we are in, we only hear of one side of the story...'their' side...it is time to gather and consolidate our resources and become the unity we know, inside us, we should pursue.

Love to you
Ray

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
-------
[*]The really important question here is WHY was all this erased from history? Why was Jesus such a threat that what he was REALLY trying to tell us has all but disappeared?[/LIST]
Here are my provocative (to some) suggestions as a series of answers to the last question. Some of what I list below is quite well-known, and some of it comes from my own personal research, still ongoing.

• The Essenes, with whom Jesus studied, knew all about the Book of Enoch, which was a centrally important reference document for them. It was widely known about and read at that time. This too had completely disappeared from history until it was rediscovered in Ethiopia in 1773 (and an original Aramaic version was found in the Dead Sea Scrolls more recently).

• The Book of Enoch, a huge topic in itself, warns of the takeover of the planet by the Archons -- non-human, off-planet entities that crave power and control. It was the Archons, of course (then in human form, because they take over people in positions of power) who banned and burned all the books and identified Jesus and his teachings as a particular threat. In that sense, Jesus may have been the world's first major whistleblower, and paid the price for his stance.

• Jay Weidner writes very clearly about this. See this important summary article (a Jeff Rense interview transcript).

• Besides warning about the planetary takeover, Jesus specifically taught that we should not use violent means (or fight evil with evil), but instead fortify ourselves inwardly. Reaching or attaining the all-powerful and important 'kingdom of heaven' was an inner goal, not an external one.

• Hence all the Gnostic teachings (which were also at that time very old, and not something new at all). But the Gnostic teachings were also a major threat to those in power, and had to be eradicated. The reason was because these teachings supported individuals in becoming more powerful, sovereign and inviolate. Even now, we are fighting exactly the same battles.

• Mary Magdalene ('Mariamne Mara' -- in Greek, 'Mary the Master') was Jesus' main supporter and advocate, and was also his wife. She was charged with the responsibility of making sure the real story was known.

• Jesus survived the crucifixion, and he and Mary both fled to Egypt until 37 AD when Jesus later returned to Kashmir and Mary sailed to Narbonne with her child or children, where she was taken care of in a Jewish community based in Rennes-les-Bains (just a few miles from Rennes-le-Chateau, where in 1890 the local priest Bérenger Saunière discovered incontrovertible proof that (among much else) Jesus was still alive in 45 AD, and was paid a large sum by the Vatican to keep this information secret).

• Mary lived in that community until something like 54-55 AD, but made a critically important error of judgment in trusting someone she should not have, was betrayed, and vitally important documents that she was safeguarding were stolen. This incident was one of several major turning points of history.

• Mary was subsequently vilified, minimized and marginalized by the early Church, branded as a repentant prostitute rather than the teacher, leader, healer and chosen messenger that she was. This malicious lie was deliberately widespread.

• What happened to Jesus was the world's first major disinfo campaign, and what happened to Mary was the world's first major smear campaign.

• The 'Second Coming' may refer to nothing more than the emergence, approximately 2000 years later, of the truth of what happened and what all this was really about. So now, we have:
  
  -- the authority and agenda of the controlling Roman Church being seriously challenged at long last
  -- the very detailed and extraordinary Gnostic Gospels unearthed at Nag Hammadi in 1945
  -- the entire original Book of Enoch unearthed in the Dead Sea Scrolls in the same year
  -- the exposé (through important books like Holy Blood, Holy Grail, The Jesus Papers, the works of Sir Laurence Gardner, and much else) of the reality of Jesus and Mary's surviving bloodline
  -- David Icke, Jay Weidner and John Lash talking openly to millions about the reality of the takeover by the Archons
  -- millions of people worldwide realizing, and acting on the fact, that true enlightenment and sovereign power lies within, independent of any external controlling agency.

• It took a while, and much longer than planned, but we've managed to get to a place now which the real Jesus, and the real Mary, might both have approved of. They might both breathe an enormous shared sigh of relief that after 2000 years of real darkness there may be hope for the human race at last.

• Summary: we're still in with a chance.

[Flash]

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)

Posted by Vitalux (here)
Think about it, what are the odds of finding a girl named Mary in Iraq about 2000 years ago?

Not Iraq!

In the Israel of that time, about 25% of women were called Mary (as we would translate it). The actual names were Maryam or Mariam (in Aramaic), or Mariamne in Greek.

One of the many problems facing New Testament historians is that there are altogether too many 'Mary's mentioned in different contexts. There's ample evidence that the writers (or translators) got them mixed up with each other on quite a few occasions.

This is one of the issues around unpicking who Mary Magdalene really was -- an important historical (and spiritual) question.

This is still the case in the catholic world, many girls are still named Mary, Marie, Maria, Marianne, Myriam, Meriam, Marianna (mary anna), etc. Very common name indeed, still today.

[Estrella Este]

I believe in Jesus the messenger of Allah, not Jesus the son of God... Extra-dimensional being or just someone with morals and spiritual enlightenment... will the fact that he was real make his philosophy undeniable? Or what if he really wasn't, will that fact destroy his reputation and the small amount of mass that actually care to do what he instructed will seize to do so...? Probably not. Those individuals rely on faith and aren't concerned with driving the point home on the issue of was there really such a man because they are preoccupied with following in his foot steps.... be they real or not... Any of us have the potential to realize and come to the same conclusions as Jesus, Buddha or Muhammad. In fact they never wanted our praise, their only hope was that we are good at following instructions, but no... we turned it into one big parade!

It's simple to make Jesus real, go out and be Jesus!