Did Jesus Really exist?

[Vitalux]

Posted by Estrella Este (here)
It's simple to make Jesus real, go out and be Jesus!

I'm with you there brother....I feel the same about Kris Kringle a.k.a Santa Clause

[CD7]

So Say everything tht has been written about jesus is completely false fabricated....

It seems tht way as EVERY SCENARIO but the kitchen sink is contemplated----

SO IF EVERYTHING WAS FALSE-------WHAT DO WE DO NOW?

[eaglespirit]

Posted by CD7 (here)
So Say everything tht has been written about jesus is completely false fabricated....

It seems tht way as EVERY SCENARIO but the kitchen sink is contemplated----

SO IF EVERYTHING WAS FALSE-------WHAT DO WE DO NOW?

Love One Another, Wisely!

[marlowe]

Posted by Vitalux (here)

Posted by Estrella Este (here)

Has anyone noticed that Jesus is Santa for adults...

Children are told if they are good Santa will bring them toys at Christmas....

Adults are told that if they are good they will go to heaven.

Christianity is a bit simplistic IMO...Good boys go off to war & kill for their country...Don't question..just obey...

[panopticon]

Posted by CD7 (here)
So Say everything tht has been written about jesus is completely false fabricated....

It seems tht way as EVERY SCENARIO but the kitchen sink is contemplated----

SO IF EVERYTHING WAS FALSE-------WHAT DO WE DO NOW?

G'day CD7,

OK: 'everything that has been written about jesus is completely false fabricated'.

Feel better now?

I don't understand your question 'WHAT DO WE DO NOW?'
Can you explain what you're asking please?
Kind Regards,
Panopticon

[Vitalux]

Posted by marlowe (here)

Posted by Vitalux (here)

Posted by Estrella Este (here)

Has anyone noticed that Jesus is Santa for adults...

Children are told if they are good Santa will bring them toys at Christmas....

Adults are told that if they are good they will go to heaven.

Christianity is a bit simplistic IMO...Good boys go off to war & kill for their country...Don't question..just obey...

Good stuff......nice to see that we are able to get a free flow of intellect here that is allowing us to become more aware of just how naive we have been.

Some people believe, that even though the Easter Bunny is not really real , if they just really really believe that the Easter bunny is real , than the Easter Bunny must be real.

[araucaria]

Posted by eaglespirit (here)

Posted by CD7 (here)
So Say everything tht has been written about jesus is completely false fabricated....

It seems tht way as EVERY SCENARIO but the kitchen sink is contemplated----

SO IF EVERYTHING WAS FALSE-------WHAT DO WE DO NOW?

Love One Another, Wisely!

Yes eaglespirit, that was the bit that wasn't falsified. And, 'Love your enemy', still sounds crazy after all these years.

[skippy]

Posted by araucaria (here)

Posted by eaglespirit (here)

Posted by CD7 (here)
So Say everything tht has been written about jesus is completely false fabricated....

It seems tht way as EVERY SCENARIO but the kitchen sink is contemplated----

SO IF EVERYTHING WAS FALSE-------WHAT DO WE DO NOW?

Love One Another, Wisely!

Yes eaglespirit, that was the bit that wasn't falsified. And, 'Love your enemy', still sounds crazy after all these years.

wasn't or can't be?

'Love your neighbour as yourself?' As real, as real can get...

Regarding the question 'What do we do now?' Well, "Go and do likewise," as Jesus used to say :-)

[araucaria]

Posted by skippy (here)

wasn't or can't be?

same difference: wasn't, and it's too late now

[marlowe]

Love your enemy sets up a double bind in the mind.......
So a psychopath rapes & murders your daughter .....Are you supposed to love the murderer....?


This is the victim mentality......"Turn the other cheek" is also the victim mind set...

Christ said " I come not to bring peace but a sword"

One way to identify a psychopath is act like a doormat.....If he starts wiping
his shoes on you he is a psychopath...

[Another1]

Posted by marlowe (here)
Love your enemy sets up a double bind in the mind.......
So a psychopath rapes & murders your daughter .....Are you supposed to love the murderer....?


This is the victim mentality......"Turn the other cheek" is also the victim mind set...

Christ said " I come not to bring peace but a sword"

One way to identify a psychopath is act like a doormat.....If he starts wiping
his shoes on you he is a psychopath...

One unexpected benefit to being programed to forgive 7 X 7 is that by the time #50 comes around,
you're strong enough to offer a proper return. That's why they have to wipe the board clean every so often.

Nice to see someone who isn't programmed to say the murderer isn't real or the daughter wished for the experience.
Cheers

[Another1]

An alleged wise man once said, "It doesn't matter if we think it's real. What matters is that they do."

If you ever get robbed, hog-tied, beaten and thrown into a ditch,
it can be a comforting thought that there are people around who do believe in the teachings attributed to Jesus.

A properly trained newager may just walk by and wish ya luck with your experience.
Someone living via their reptilian brain may check to see if you have anything left to steal.

Something has been created by the hearts 'n minds 'n intentions of billions of people ore the years.
It's not all love and kisses, I will admit.
Had a chaplain once scream at me that Jesus didn't mind me learning to kill and go to war.
Another fine gentleman thought I'ld make a great abortion activist and asserted Jesus would help.

But, at 5 pm on Fridays you can join me at a local establishment set up by volunteers serving up a free community dinner.
They just got off work and instead of going home to relax, they put in another 3-4 hours of their life to make sure
a bunch of strangers have a nice, warm meal. If you look in their eyes, both men and women, you can see/feel the
kind of person this man Jesus allegedly was.

I use the word 'allegedly' for the sake of all the people who giggle at this as if we are believing in an Easter Bunny or insist the whole story is a lie. In it's original form, it seems a damn weird lie for controlling people. The tale of a man who turns his back on the controllers, money makers and overly self-rightous, is an odd story to tell people you want to control.

Something is real now.
Even if you could prove the whole story was a lie in the beginning, something has been created.

[araucaria]

Posted by marlowe (here)
Are you supposed to love the murderer....?


This is the victim mentality......

Let's say that i have read reports of people who have been through this kind of experience with extra-ordinary restraint, understanding and, yes, forgivingness. This has nothing whatsoever to do with your victim mentality and is an example of the sort of reaction I personally would hope to have.

But what do you recommend? How many psychopaths have walked over you, or tried?

Violence breeds violence. 'Love your enemy' means stepping outside of that truly vicious circle.

[marlowe]

Posted by araucaria (here)

Posted by marlowe (here)
Are you supposed to love the murderer....?


This is the victim mentality......

Let's say that i have read reports of people who have been through this kind of experience with extra-ordinary restraint, understanding and, yes, forgivingness.

Violence breeds violence. 'Love your enemy' means stepping outside of that truly vicious circle.

The New Testament was written by the Romans to subjugate the Jews . The Romans wanted the Jews to "turn the other cheek" & Love the Roman enemy.....Joseph Atwill proves this beyond a shadow of a doubt in this 33 minute video.......Look where the continuation of the Roman plan for total world control has brought us .

The ROMAN Catholic church controlled most of Europe for a long, long time & here we are on the edge of WWIII

with Fukushima poisoning the Pacific Ocean. Believe what you want to believe but at least have a look at the evidence that the New Testament was a fiction & the pacifist Jesus was also a fiction.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=4UqG8w7ezUQ

[Another1]

Posted by araucaria (here)

Posted by marlowe (here)
Are you supposed to love the murderer....?


This is the victim mentality......

Let's say that i have read reports of people who have been through this kind of experience with extra-ordinary restraint, understanding and, yes, forgivingness. This has nothing whatsoever to do with your victim mentality and is an example of the sort of reaction I personally would hope to have.

But what do you recommend? How many psychopaths have walked over you, or tried?

Violence breeds violence. 'Love your enemy' means stepping outside of that truly vicious circle.

Your comments remind me of a real-world story to hit the news Found Here
Amish Grace & Forgiveness





Following the tragic Amish school shooting of 10 young schoolgirls in a one-room Amish school in October 2006, reporters from throughout the world invaded Lancaster County, PA to cover the story. However, in the hours and days following the shooting a different, an unexpected story developed.
In the midst of their grief over this shocking loss, the Amish community didn’t cast blame, they didn’t point fingers, they didn’t hold a press conference with attorneys at their sides. Instead, they reached out with grace and compassion toward the killer’s family.
The afternoon of the shooting an Amish grandfather of one of the girls who was killed expressed forgiveness toward the killer, Charles Roberts. That same day Amish neighbors visited the Roberts family to comfort them in their sorrow and pain.


It’s ironic that the killer was tormented for nine years by the pre-mature death of his young daughter. He never forgave God for her death. Yet, after he cold-bloodedly shot 10 innocent Amish school girls, the Amish almost immediately forgave him and showed compassion toward his family.

http://lancasterpa.com/amish-forgiveness/

[good point]

Posted by Vitalux (here)

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
Looks you you never properly read my opening post on the url thread... please find a moment to read it again.

Bill I am going to either blame my spirit guide or the devil for making me type that.

I never met that guy Jesus in person, but I am sure he was a swell fellow

The real truth needs a working definition.

Posted by 1 flew over (here)
Since in our current western culture more

More speaks less. I won't accept Greek honors. I take American honors.

[araucaria]

Posted by marlowe (here)
Joseph Atwill proves this beyond a shadow of a doubt

Marlowe, my friend, he does no such thing. You are taking his word as… gospel, just as he is taking Josephus as gospel. Let me be the unbeliever here and pick a few holes in this story of yours.

First, let’s suppose for a moment that Josephus wrote Matthew’s gospel. Did he write Mark, which textual analysis shows came first and served as source material for the other three? He did not. Did he write Luke and John, and the Acts of the Apostles? No he didn’t. No one is claiming otherwise. Did he write the gospels of Philip, Thomas, Peter, Mary, and many others later discarded? Of course he didn’t. So many witnesses all with roughly the same story would sound impressive in a court of law.

Then perhaps Josephus didn’t write Matthew after all. Perhaps it was the other way round and he based his history of the Judaea campaign on the gospel account. We are talking after all of the Romans and their self-promotion of their ‘evil’ policies: perhaps they were even more devious about it than you are supposing. In other words, I am suggesting that the historian was writing fiction. He wouldn’t be the first.

Take Winston Churchill, who wrote his own history of World War II. Beautifully written, but historians have been picking holes in it ever since. It is a top down version by just one participant, albeit a very important one. But historians like to take into account as many eye-witness accounts as possible. These are only just drying up 70 years on.

Where did Churchill get the time? He was voted out of office as early as 1945, mostly by returning war vets who from experience weren’t buying into the war hero nonsense. In other words, Churchill’s history was denounced by millions as fiction before he ever put pen to paper. Of course he had to give a factual account of the war that everyone knew about, but he put a slant on it that did not correspond to the grassroots reality of the individuals involved in the war.

Now imagine this history being written by a German traitor, someone like the duke of Windsor… And imagine him having a monopoly on the story, no one to contradict him. Josephus was a Jewish defector who gained acceptance among the Flavians, and is the only source we have for Titus’s campaign. The manner of his defection as one of two survivors of a suicide pact arranged by himself is highly suspicious: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus_problem

With no one to check on him, the details of the campaign could have been entirely made up by Josephus: they did not need to have happened at all. He could have taken them from the life of Jesus, which is corroborated by many more than Josephus’s story. He might have done this out of pure laziness, or out of familiarity with the ‘typology’ principle whereby stories are based on other stories. Or he might have done it with the ulterior motive ascribed to him by Joseph Atwill, although doing the opposite to what Atwill claims. According to Josephus, the sack of Jerusalem led to 1,100,000 killed and 97,000 taken prisoner. That's quite a few people who would not be needing to turn the other cheek.

By the way, this ‘typology’ method is by no means restricted to biblical story-telling. E.H. Gombrich’s Art & Illusion describes how art has always copied art – for example, if you had never seen a whale or rhinoceros, you would just copy someone else’s woodcut or drawing. And plagiarism was rife among writers long before cutting-and-pasting made life easier for cheats and Internet searches made it harder for them.

Moreover, the ‘typology’ principle also applies to historical events. Wikipedia disambiguation lists 17 sieges of Jerusalem, and the fire that destroyed the Temple in 70 somewhat reiterates the fire of Rome probably started by Nero a couple of years earlier. Also military tactics are decided by adapting what has worked in previous battles to the present situation.

Finally, here is a character assessment of Josephus that suggests that this character should be deeply mistrusted – but why should we have any faith anyway in someone whose whole purpose as claimed by Atwill is disinformation?

Josephus's life story remains ambiguous. He was described by Harris in 1985 as a law-observant Jew who believed in the compatibility of Judaism and Graeco-Roman thought, commonly referred to as Hellenistic Judaism.[3] Before the nineteenth century, the scholar Nitsa Ben-Ari notes that his work was shunned like that of converts, then banned as those of a traitor, whose work was not to be studied or translated into Hebrew.[16] His critics were never satisfied as to why he failed to commit suicide in Galilee and, after his capture, accepted the patronage of Romans.



The historian E. Mary Smallwood wrote:
"[Josephus] was conceited, not only about his own learning but also about the opinions held of him as commander both by the Galileans and by the Romans; he was guilty of shocking duplicity at Jotapata, saving himself by sacrifice of his companions; he was too naive to see how he stood condemned out of his own mouth for his conduct, and yet no words were too harsh when he was blackening his opponents; and after landing, however involuntarily, in the Roman camp, he turned his captivity to his own advantage, and benefitted for the rest of his days from his change of side" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flavius_Josephus

[panopticon]

G'day Araucaria,

Posted by araucaria (here)
First, let’s suppose for a moment that Josephus wrote Matthew’s gospel. Did he write Mark, which textual analysis shows came first and served as source material for the other three? He did not. Did he write Luke and John, and the Acts of the Apostles? No he didn’t. No one is claiming otherwise.

Very good points.

Posted by araucaria (here)
Did he write the gospels of Philip, Thomas, Peter, Mary, and many others later discarded? Of course he didn’t. So many witnesses all with roughly the same story would sound impressive in a court of law.

Tend to disagree here (though I agree Josephus did not writing these texts ).

I tend to agree with the later authorship date for the texts you mentioned (as shown here).
While there is a possibility for their being based on earlier texts (much as Matthew and Luke were based on Mark and the proposed "Q" text) I don't see there being a need for those texts to be taken as witness testimony.
Rather I see them as a means of explaining how different groups/sects reacted to the destruction of the temple and the later Jewish defeat known as the Bar Kokhba revolt (132–136 CE).
Kind Regards,
Panopticon

[araucaria]

Posted by panopticon (here)
G'day Araucaria,

Posted by araucaria (here)
First, let’s suppose for a moment that Josephus wrote Matthew’s gospel. Did he write Mark, which textual analysis shows came first and served as source material for the other three? He did not. Did he write Luke and John, and the Acts of the Apostles? No he didn’t. No one is claiming otherwise.

Very good points.

Posted by araucaria (here)
Did he write the gospels of Philip, Thomas, Peter, Mary, and many others later discarded? Of course he didn’t. So many witnesses all with roughly the same story would sound impressive in a court of law.

Tend to disagree here (though I agree Josephus did not writing these texts ).

I tend to agree with the later authorship date for the texts you mentioned (as shown here).
While there is a possibility for their being based on earlier texts (much as Matthew and Luke were based on Mark and the proposed "Q" text) I don't see there being a need for those texts to be taken as witness testimony.
Rather I see them as a means of explaining how different groups/sects reacted to the destruction of the temple and the later Jewish defeat known as the Bar Kokhba revolt (132–136 CE).
Kind Regards,
Panopticon

Thank you, point taken. What I was trying to say was similar to the Jesus family tomb video, where every additional name corresponding to the bible story multiplies the likelihood of the tomb being as claimed. There are many such names that corroborate the gospel story, whereas Josephus is out on a limb, all alone.

It is also worth pointing out that history as a discipline was still only in its infancy at the time, falling well short of modern standards. Hence the need to factor in not only disinfo but plain misinfo as well.

[eaglespirit]

Posted by araucaria (here)
Hence the need to factor in not only disinfo but plain misinfo as well.

Good Morning Araucaria!

...and We are now turning the corner, imho. There will be many of Us at the forefront that will bring to life the 'knowing' of what really has gone on and is going on and 'will' go on.

It is about to become a 'natural' occurrence that brings ALL of the truth to light...a very positive tidal wave is about to dismantle ALL of the convoluted and complex deception.

There are too many of Us riding the Energy now...it is beyond Our grasp and comprehension at the moment but the ALL knowing of ALL of it is truly about to unfold...at light speed and faster!

And We WILL Brighten the Dawn and Transform Mother Earth, Together!