The real Jesus, the real Mary, Gnosis, the Archons, and the world's first major smear campaign

[Foxie Loxie]

It's wonderful to be freed from centuries of brainwashing!!

Quoting Dresden James...."When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous & its speaker a raving lunatic!"

I am now a member of the Lunatic Club!!

[MistressJan]

I just came upon this and it’s beautiful! And correct as well...

[Spellbound]

Posted by Foxie Loxie (here)
I am now a member of the Lunatic Club!!

Welcome aboard.

Let your freak flag fly.

Dave - Toronto

[A Voice from the Mountains]

I'm just now revisiting this thread after about a three and a half years or so, and better appreciate now where Bill is coming from in the OP, though I took another route to get there (mostly studying problems in European chronology and ancient religions). The subject is incredibly complex and there's more historical data out there than any one person could go through in an entire lifetime.

A couple more observations: the heretical versions of Christianity mentioned by Iranaeus are likely the rural "pagan" religions that evolved separately from the Catholic Church. In other words, when the church was persecuting heretical versions of Christianity, they were in reality suppressing older religions that shared similarities with Christianity because Christianity itself is not simply an extension of the Jewish religion, but is inherently European in many of its more critical facets. Jews and Muslims both consider Christianity to be polytheistic because of the doctrine of the Trinity -- ultimately a Celtic concept (Celts had a tripartite God, complete with a human incarnation named Hesus in Gaul, etymologically related to "Zeus" and "Jupiter" as well, ie "Dyaus-Pitar" or "Zeus-Pater", God the Father).

We have been sold a bill of goods, that Christianity is completely distinct and unrelated to the earlier native "pagan" religions of Europe. Not so fast! The crown of thorns, communion, and the symbolism of 12 apostles are all from earlier, non-Jewish religions, and there is argumentation based on Greek philosophy in the New Testament, and even references to Greek and Roman deities as also representing the God of the Christians.

What happened in Europe was not so much a conquering by Christianity, by a synthesis of native beliefs with an artificial ideology forced upon the people against their will by Catholic authorities. Our modern holidays of Easter, Halloween, and Christmas are great examples of ancient "pagan" traditions that received the Catholic whitewash in order to rebrand them as something different than what they were originally, even though all of these holidays still abound in blatantly non-Christian symbolism (rabbits and eggs, trees and reindeer, etc.).

[Iceberg]

It looks like a religion post but I will speak only the ancient scriptures not anything more, because I have studied them a lot and I have tried to get its meaning

What says Quran about Jesus, that is the last ancient scripture from Abrahamic religion and to the last prophet. Translated in English

4:171 O People of the Scripture, do not commit excess in your religion or say about God except the truth. The Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, was but a messenger of God and His word which He directed to Mary and a soul from Him. So believe in God and His messengers. And do not say, "Three"; desist - it is better for you. Indeed, God is but one God. Exalted is He above having a son. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth. And sufficient is God as Disposer of affairs.

So every human being that was "The choosen one" since the Adam and Eve, was only a messenger (included Jesus). Romans have used his name for political meaning and to continue their pagan worship that was Sun and other dieties. They made the decision to call him son of god and to be worshiped later as a god also. Because if people can see who are worshipping they would be made more vulnerable to follow and to be manipulated by those who use his image.

another text:
41:37 And of His signs are the night and day and the sun and moon. Do not prostrate to the sun or to the moon, but prostate to God , who created them, if it should be Him that you worship.

It looks like our humanity has a long history of story manipulation and it was needed to guide messengers from time to time to follow the right path.
Thats why those who truly believe in God and Him alone they don't worship any beings or object that can be seen, no one knows His true form and it should stay that way because in this dimension we are really vulnerable to manipulation.

This is only speaking from ancient scriptures because even islam as a religion has been manipulated with other forein texts and has been deformed to what is today.

[amandapoet]

It's been quite awhile since I visited this thread as well, and it was very eye opening for me. I've been going further down the proverbial rabbit hole ever since. MisstresJan , I hope you will find the information here and throughout the forum to be as thought provoking as it has for me. It is fascinating to see how many others eyes are being opened. It is quite brilliant to be a part of it all and engaging in what will no doubt be, a never ending discussion.

[Mari]

I've just started to read Avalon's e-book 'The Jesus Papers' by Michael Baigent, as recommended to us by Bill. Fascinating & thought-provoking it is too. Can't get enough of this stuff...!

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Posted by Foxie Loxie (here)
It's wonderful to be freed from centuries of brainwashing!!

Quoting Dresden James...."When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous & its speaker a raving lunatic!"

I am now a member of the Lunatic Club!!

Count me in, Foxie!

[britman]

I had the privilege of attending The Twelve Blessings in London 1958.These were give on consecutive Sundays.George King would go into a Samadhic trance leaving his body for the use of Jesus to give the teaching during which He announced that this book of The Twelve Blessings was intended to be the biblical text for The New Age. In another session He is recorded saying"I came from Venus".
In the address after the 12th. Blessing in which a gift of a small wooden cross was blessed and given to each member present , he commented on the significance of the Cross as the "Symbol of Resurrection through Karmic Experience", in contrast to way it has been used as a symbol of terrible death by foolish priests.
He then said "But just as I Resurrected after the crucifixion, so do I state now, that when you do this ( in reference to the life of service) you will live through the Mighty Triumph of your Resurrection.
I have taken the trouble to write this because of the conflicting stories. Jesus was a common name, but He was quite capable of resuming life in another body if chose.
Reading The Twelve Blessings can be a life changing experience, and provides a way of sending the power of Love to the world, with some reflection received.
As a final note, it was made apparent that the mother of George King was the reincarnation of Mary Magdelene in the events included in the introduction to the book.

[TrumanCash]

I did a word search on the Book of Enoch and could not find the word "Archons" in any of the chapters. Where does the Book of Enoch refer to the "Archons" (as stated in the OP)?

[pounamuknight]

Two very good documentaries about Mary Magdalene and the smear campaign and outright censorship against her

Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBTzUWgUYb0

Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFaKS1tD8zs

I also liked how both documentaries give tantalizing glimpses into the early Judeo Christian movement/s

[Bill Ryan]

Posted by pounamuknight (here)
Two very good documentaries about Mary Magdalene and the smear campaign and outright censorship against her

Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBTzUWgUYb0

Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFaKS1tD8zs

I also liked how both documentaries give tantalizing glimpses into the early Judeo Christian movement/s

~~~

Thank you! (And a very welcome to the forum )

Posted by TrumanCash (here)
I did a word search on the Book of Enoch and could not find the word "Archons" in any of the chapters. Where does the Book of Enoch refer to the "Archons" (as stated in the OP)?

From here:

• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archon_(Gnosticism)

The Book of Enoch (vi. 3, 7; viii. 1) names 20 "archons of the" 200 "watcher" angels who sinned with the "daughters of men," as appears from one of the Greek fragments. The title is not indeed used absolutely (τ. ἀρχόντων αὺτῶν, Σεμιαζᾶς, ὁ ἄρχων αὐτῶν, bis: cf. ἱ πρώταρχος αὐτῶν Σ.), except perhaps once (πρῶτος Ἀζαὴλ ὁ δέκατος τῶν ἀρχόντων), where the Ethiopic has no corresponding words: but it has evidently almost become a true name, and may account for St. Jude's peculiar use of ἀρχή (Jude 1:6).

[Valerie Villars]

I've watched the first video. The first thing that popped into my mind, was a quote of Jesus, from the "Gospel of Thomas".

(39) Jesus said, The Pharisees and the scribes have taken the keys of Knowledge and hidden them. They themselves have not entered, nor have they allowed to enter those who wish to. You, however, be as wise as serpents and as innocent as doves.

It was quite a good documentary and verifies what Jesus said in the above paragraph.

[TrumanCash]

]
Quote from Bill Ryan's post #611 above:

"The Book of Enoch (vi. 3, 7; viii. 1) names 20 "archons of the" 200 "watcher" angels who sinned with the "daughters of men," as appears from one of the Greek fragments."

I am assuming that "vi." means Chapter 6 and "3, 7" means verses 3 and 7; "viii. 1" means chapter 8 verse 1. I do not find any reference to "archons" in those chapters or verses, Bill.

I cannot find any reference to "archons" in any of the online translations of the Book of Enoch. Does anyone have a link to any online translation of the Book of Enoch that mentions the word "archons"?

[Bill Ryan]

Posted by TrumanCash (here)
Quote from Bill Ryan's post #611 above:

"The Book of Enoch (vi. 3, 7; viii. 1) names 20 "archons of the" 200 "watcher" angels who sinned with the "daughters of men," as appears from one of the Greek fragments."

I am assuming that "vi." means Chapter 6 and "3, 7" means verses 3 and 7; "viii. 1" means chapter 8 verse 1. I do not find any reference to "archons" in those chapters or verses, Bill.

I cannot find any reference to "archons" in any of the online translations of the Book of Enoch. Does anyone have a link to any online translation of the Book of Enoch that mentions the word "archons"?

If not in translation (I've not personally checked), definitely in the original Greek. (ἄρχων = 'archon'.)

Also see this detailed forum thread in the Biblical Criticism and History Archives, which runs to 49 posts, some of them quite long:

• Does the book of Enoch mention "archons"?
  http://bcharchive.org/2/thearchives/...ead274b-2.html

[TrumanCash]

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)

Posted by TrumanCash (here)
Quote from Bill Ryan's post #611 above:

"The Book of Enoch (vi. 3, 7; viii. 1) names 20 "archons of the" 200 "watcher" angels who sinned with the "daughters of men," as appears from one of the Greek fragments."

I am assuming that "vi." means Chapter 6 and "3, 7" means verses 3 and 7; "viii. 1" means chapter 8 verse 1. I do not find any reference to "archons" in those chapters or verses, Bill.

I cannot find any reference to "archons" in any of the online translations of the Book of Enoch. Does anyone have a link to any online translation of the Book of Enoch that mentions the word "archons"?

If not in translation (I've not personally checked), definitely in the original Greek. (ἄρχων = 'archon'.)

Also see this detailed forum thread in the Biblical Criticism and History Archives, which runs to 49 posts, some of them quite long:

• Does the book of Enoch mention "archons"?
  http://bcharchive.org/2/thearchives/...ead274b-2.html

That forum thread is mostly a heated debate that yields nothing definitive about whether the word "archons" appears in the Book of Enoch as far as I can tell. In fact, the second post states: "Once again, there is no such word in Greek as "archons"...."

If as you say, (ἄρχων = 'archon'.), then why does it not appear in the translations of the Book of Enoch? This makes no sense to me.

And what is the definitive definition of the word "archon"? I've heard several ideas about it but I still have no idea what that word means or where it appears in the Book of Enoch.

[Bill Ryan]

Posted by TrumanCash (here)

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)

Posted by TrumanCash (here)
Quote from Bill Ryan's post #611 above:

"The Book of Enoch (vi. 3, 7; viii. 1) names 20 "archons of the" 200 "watcher" angels who sinned with the "daughters of men," as appears from one of the Greek fragments."

I am assuming that "vi." means Chapter 6 and "3, 7" means verses 3 and 7; "viii. 1" means chapter 8 verse 1. I do not find any reference to "archons" in those chapters or verses, Bill.

I cannot find any reference to "archons" in any of the online translations of the Book of Enoch. Does anyone have a link to any online translation of the Book of Enoch that mentions the word "archons"?

If not in translation (I've not personally checked), definitely in the original Greek. (ἄρχων = 'archon'.)

Also see this detailed forum thread in the Biblical Criticism and History Archives, which runs to 49 posts, some of them quite long:

• Does the book of Enoch mention "archons"?
  http://bcharchive.org/2/thearchives/...ead274b-2.html

That forum thread is mostly a heated debate that yields nothing definitive about whether the word "archons" appears in the Book of Enoch as far as I can tell. In fact, the second post states: "Once again, there is no such word in Greek as "archons"...."

If as you say, (ἄρχων = 'archon'.), then why does it not appear in the translations of the Book of Enoch? This makes no sense to me.

And what is the definitive definition of the word "archon"? I've heard several ideas about it but I still have no idea what that word means or where it appears in the Book of Enoch.

Maybe try this page? The Book of Enoch Greek text is there, linked below. To find the references, copy ἄρχων and then paste that into your browser search box... that works.

• http://khazarzar.skeptik.net/books/hanokhg.htm

There are various dictionaries of Ancient Greek online. I've not checked them all. From this page, the Greek—English dictionaries yield nothing, but the Greek—German one does.

From here, though, we have more: (best to offer a screenshot)

• https://glosbe.com/grc/en/%E1%BC%84%...87%CF%89%CE%BD

[aKnightThatSaysNi]

Posted by pounamuknight (here)
Two very good documentaries about Mary Magdalene and the smear campaign and outright censorship against her

Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBTzUWgUYb0

The Catholic Church removed the link between Mary Magdalene and Mary the prostitute in 1969. Maybe it is still taught in other Christian religions, but it is not longer part of Catholic teaching.

[Valerie Villars]

They did mention the Catholic Church removing that link in the first video. Thanks to them for the crumbs from their cake. I'll bake my own, thank you.

Having been bought up Catholic, it used to be a sin to eat meat on Friday. Then they changed that. I always found their rules arbitrary, capricious and lacking common sense.

I just read the "Gospel of Mary" on www.gnosis.org. It's apparent from that and other Gnostic teachings, that almost all markers and signs to personal empowerment through the original creator have been suppressed.

It's too bad that most of her, Mary Magdalene's gospel, was destroyed or lost.

It wasn't logical or left brained enough for the guys who ran the show. And yet, she knew the miracle of life.

[East Sun]

It's incredible that a major religion who dictated to countless hundreds of thousands, should be finally seen as fake (my opinion).
I was raised Catholic and have no problem condemning them wholeheartedly. There were, of course, totally dedicated priests, bishops etc.
Also a dedicated flock who, in me opinion were conditioned (brainwashed some would say) into being sheep to the slaughter.

It's easy to say that now but it was not so easy then, believe me.

[aKnightThatSaysNi]

Posted by Valerie Villars (here)
They did mention the Catholic Church removing that link in the first video.

Sorry, I guess I missed that in the video. I'll stay out of the Church bashing. I know it is the one place where it is totally acceptable to bash.