Lucifer Is NOT Satan! Biblical Proof

[johnf]

Wow, I am out of breath trying to catch up with the rest of you on this thread, been spending a lot of time with the Jesus/Gnostics thread, and have been reading a fair bit of the Laurency material.

The three videos in the below quote have a lot of truth and clarifacation in them.
I am grateful for these points of veiw.
The first one talking about the polarities of energy come very close to my understand of things.

Posted by TargeT (here)

Posted by Strat (here)
Are Luciferians the same as Satanists? I ask because I believe the term Satanist gets thrown around a lot as well, but I don't think actual Satanists worship anything.

I know nothing of luciferianism, just haven't studied it yet.

However, this seems to make a lot of sense:

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=8ZodKg0Mb_c

William Cooper explaining Lucifarianism (remember, he's very biased):
http://vimeo.com/13404455

Satanists have a few sects, but over all, satanists worship "them selves", personal power, the strength of "I/Me".

These are somewhat helpful:

AutoDeistic sect (science/philosophy based Satanism):

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=uVy57kvkfNM

Laveyan Satanism:

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=h9oVtrc-mBs

The tatoo on my arm is very Satanic; it is a cross of Knowledge Is Power (in Latin: Scientia Potentia Est) with Iconoclast (a very satanic/complex term)

I've found through my research that I practice a form of Satanism, though I don't label it as such; I find all the threads blaming "Satanists" for this or that funny, but I have never tried to corrected them.

The lack of critical thought in this world is astounding.

I do think that the forces of spirit are the light, and that the forces of matter, the manipulation matter, the binding of spirit into matter can be seen as the forces of darkness, but there is a danger of misunderstanding there that is very hard to avoid.
It is good that we have a medium through which to evolve our spiritual awareness, I say that because I do believe
that is why it was created, to expand spirit/love, that is the nature of spirit to expand and develop.
In a sense I see this as being a compression of spirit in order to form matter, and to do this you need spirits to identify, and believe in things, that are not originally true in order to do this.
Belief in lies creates new truth in a sense.
Perhaps what matter is, is light concentrated so densely, that it appears solid, so solid that if you bang two pieces of it together you will break one or more pieces, (try visualizing this using your head and a brick wallfor example).

That is only one part of what I think about all this, I mean the use of "lies"/imagination to create things.

So the forces that hold us to our bodies till our work is done can be seen as good or evil depending on how we deal with them.
These forces seem to be responsible for spirits coming back over and over just to make the same mistakes over and over.
These forces can be seen as one force that is being used by multiple beings to keep mankind enslaved to materialism.
I think the only good use of the term satan is to have a handle for this group.
The dark lodge idea is a better one.
But the main idea here is that they are misusing the dark,matter creating and binding forces to serve thier own ends.

The other aspect of our selves in my experience is the ability to see through the lies, and learn from the experience while still in physical form.
Also there is the aspect that can put pleasure, usefulness healing into life, and that is a more raried version of the light/spirit.

That seems to be given the name Lucifer in antiquity, and there has been a smear campaign over the ages directed at that side of life by the matter side.

There are various mentions of Lucifer being the body of spirit that has been helping mankind over the ages, and comes from Venus.
The morning star, there are references to Jesus being the morning star, also Lucifer, also Quetzalcoatl.
The greco roman godesses of love are associated with venus(one of them is called venus).
Those two cultures inherited this association from the egyptian.
The egyptian version of the morning star was Hathor.

I find it interesting indeed that both Jesus, and Quetzalcoatl are beleived to be coming back to usher in an age of peace and harmony in the Aquarian age.

So in summary when I look at all of this, I can only find nefarious motivations for judging any supposed individual beings associated with these names(the use of satan as a label for what the Laurency material calls the black lodge seems to be pretty workable, even then there is danger in judgement, and the material goes into detail about that)
To do so seems to keep people from reclaiming the truth within themselves because I think at a certain stage many of us might run into parts of our selve that have been labeled in such a manner and disgarded.

I myself have experiences to this effect, and my catholic upbringing has been a barrier to seeing things as they are.

In the end we probably have to see all things as parts of ourselves and acknowledge the divine in all these parts in order
to move on.

May we all meet soon on a higher plane, and have a long loud laugh about all our experiences with matter, jf

[TargeT]

Well John... what if the bar is set high on purpose, what if the test is very difficult because it has to be?

Have you looked at humanity lately? how many people get tricked into believing an idea SO STRONGLY that they will defend it with every ounce of their will... do you think those people are ready for anything other than we have right now?

I think this thread is an excellent example of what I am speaking of:

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...ve-water-daily

We see two very different points of view in this thread, one is backed by data and self experiment, one is backed by propaganda and fear based programming. Logic means nothing when an idea is strongly held, the body (the Reptilian system) OVER POWERS reason and even short term memory to cement the defended idea into that of its holder.

If you have not seen this video, at least watch and comprehend the first 15 min:

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=dbh5l0b2-0o

it describes how this is a pre-programmed response, a way that our brains are predisposed to work.... if we cannot even over come this simple thing with the AMAZING power we have (will power / choice, simply CHOOSE to do something and see this for yourself, never forget how powerful you are by this alone!) do you REALLY think we deserve anything else?

I think you get where I'm going here

oh, and one thing on the "dark lodge" or the "dark powers"... WHO ELSE can teach this lesson, how harsh does it have to get before we learn it?

it makes sense to me. It's a dark view, but I understand it as a possibility.

[johnf]

Wow I wrote a lot there, but I wanted to be sure I got the point across that if one really looks through the various sources, and pays attention to nudges from their innermost selves, one can discern the intent in the writings around Satan, and Lucifer to feel guilty around wanting to fully reunite with all that is.
Probably did put that in there, just wanted to be sure.

jf

[TargeT]

Posted by johnf (here)
Wow I wrote a lot there, but I wanted to be sure I got the point across that if one really looks through the various sources, and pays attention to nudges from their innermost selves, one can discern the intent in the writings around Satan, and Lucifer to feel guilty around wanting to fully reunite with all that is.
Probably did put that in there, just wanted to be sure.

jf

another aspect of the test, guilt, a fear based emotion.... very good

great posts jf, made me think of a few things.

[Youniverse]

Posted by Freed Fox (here)

Posted by littlebee (here)
[...] then who was the serpent that tempted Eve?

The good guy.

He told the truth, whereas "God" clearly lied. That is the Gnostic view, anyway... I'll allow those with more knowledge on the topic to elaborate if they wish.

And welcome to Avalon!

If that were possible for God to lie. Only imperfect beings such as humans are capable of lying. Perhaps your definition of God is much more anthropomorphic than mine. When I refer to God I am talking about the Supreme Spirit, the highest of the high, the Source of All That Is. Gnosticism contains a great wealth of wisdom from my understanding of it and I'd be surprised if it really espoused such an idea as God lying. However, as is often the case on here, I probably misunderstood your post.

[Finefeather]

Posted by Youniverse (here)
If that were possible for God to lie. Only imperfect beings such as humans are capable of lying. Perhaps your definition of God is much more anthropomorphic than mine. When I refer to God I am talking about the Supreme Spirit, the highest of the high, the Source of All That Is. Gnosticism contains a great wealth of wisdom from my understanding of it and I'd be surprised if it really espoused such an idea as God lying. However, as is often the case on here, I probably misunderstood your post.

Clearly, we need to determine what 'God' is.
Generally, it seems that god is a relative term which refers to that which we strive to please, or from which we seek favour, or recognition, or whom we obey.
According to the CIA's World Factbook for 2012, Christians...32%, and the Muslims...23%, make up the bulk of the human race on the planet...to them they have very different gods. It also states that about 11.7% are non-religious, or atheists. This should give us a very good idea why the world is in such a mess...and easily manipulated by dark forces. Of course they make no mention of worshippers of Satan. So, if we are so divided, then clearly someone's god is lying? or is it just the human failings, the ego saying "My choice is right...yours is wrong".

Someone who makes a statement like you have "When I refer to God I am talking about the Supreme Spirit, the highest of the high, the Source of All That Is." clearly has no idea of whom they speak of...because each of the 2 largest religions says exactly the same thing as you have. So what is the difference between your god and the Christian god and the Muslim god, if you all are saying the same thing?

Esoterically, god is the same as I generally stated above..."that which we strive to please, or from which we seek favour, or recognition or whom we obey". This is so because it fulfils a function in our lives which teaches us to attempt to improve within the bounds of some form of governance...unfortunately this principle has been cleverly used by the dark forces. Even if we look at a dog, it appears to have a god which is its owner, because it does exactly all the things we each do in our early individual level of consciousness, it pleases, seeks favour, and obeys it's master. We have the chela or disciple in monasteries who do the same...the difference though is clearly the respect the chela has for a known wisdom.

The esoteric difference to the outcome is that it recognises stages of human consciousness growth, which causes new meanings and understandings to become evident as we grow. Only when consciousness evolves to greater heights do we begin to know the true meaning of god and how it manifests in the cosmos.

God is the laws of the cosmos...and the major difference between obeying the laws of the cosmos and the laws of man is that when we obey the laws of man we become trapped in relativity and illusion...whereas when we obey the laws of the cosmos, which are fixed and stable, we become free. Freedom is recognition and obedience of the many laws of the cosmos.

This may be of some help for those who are interested.
http://www.hylozoik.se/english/basics/fund_hylo.htm

With love
Ray

[Youniverse]

Posted by Finefeather (here)

Posted by Youniverse (here)
If that were possible for God to lie. Only imperfect beings such as humans are capable of lying. Perhaps your definition of God is much more anthropomorphic than mine. When I refer to God I am talking about the Supreme Spirit, the highest of the high, the Source of All That Is. Gnosticism contains a great wealth of wisdom from my understanding of it and I'd be surprised if it really espoused such an idea as God lying. However, as is often the case on here, I probably misunderstood your post.

Clearly, we need to determine what 'God' is.
Generally, it seems that god is a relative term which refers to that which we strive to please, or from which we seek favour, or recognition, or whom we obey.
According to the CIA's World Factbook for 2012, Christians...32%, and the Muslims...23%, make up the bulk of the human race on the planet...to them they have very different gods. It also states that about 11.7% are non-religious, or atheists. This should give us a very good idea why the world is in such a mess...and easily manipulated by dark forces. Of course they make no mention of worshippers of Satan. So, if we are so divided, then clearly someone's god is lying? or is it just the human failings, the ego saying "My choice is right...yours is wrong".

Someone who makes a statement like you have "When I refer to God I am talking about the Supreme Spirit, the highest of the high, the Source of All That Is." clearly has no idea of whom they speak of...because each of the 2 largest religions says exactly the same thing as you have. So what is the difference between your god and the Christian god and the Muslim god, if you all are saying the same thing?

Esoterically, god is the same as I generally stated above..."that which we strive to please, or from which we seek favour, or recognition or whom we obey". This is so because it fulfils a function in our lives which teaches us to attempt to improve within the bounds of some form of governance...unfortunately this principle has been cleverly used by the dark forces. Even if we look at a dog, it appears to have a god which is its owner, because it does exactly all the things we each do in our early individual level of consciousness, it pleases, seeks favour, and obeys it's master. We have the chela or disciple in monasteries who do the same...the difference though is clearly the respect the chela has for a known wisdom.

The esoteric difference to the outcome is that it recognises stages of human consciousness growth, which causes new meanings and understandings to become evident as we grow. Only when consciousness evolves to greater heights do we begin to know the true meaning of god and how it manifests in the cosmos.

God is the laws of the cosmos...and the major difference between obeying the laws of the cosmos and the laws of man is that when we obey the laws of man we become trapped in relativity and illusion...whereas when we obey the laws of the cosmos, which are fixed and stable, we become free. Freedom is recognition and obedience of the many laws of the cosmos.

This may be of some help for those who are interested.
http://www.hylozoik.se/english/basics/fund_hylo.htm

With love
Ray

And you, my friend, are making a lot of assumptions on what another may or may not know. Do you really think you know all about what God is? Have you achieved self-realization, lifted the veil, gone down the path of various spiritual masters to enlightenment? Not saying I have, just pointing out some of the inadequacies of your proposed argument. Do you really think, just because the various religious traditions refer to "God" by different names and have different stories, that they're talking about something else? Aren't they all trying to explain the unexplainable? You want me to get in some kind of argument here about what God is. That very question alone could fill hundreds or more pages on this forum and not get anywhere. All I was trying to point out is that when you refer to the Creator or whatever you want to call it, have a little more respect and don't say ignorant things like God lies. The moment you say something like that you're referring to something less than God. Or we can get into the concept of God being everything, which of course He is, then you can say God lies but through some sort of filter like the human ego.

And really you can try and belittle my statement and insult me all day and it won't make me angry or be concerned in the least. You can tell me I don't know God all day and you still don't know whom you're talking about and what I am or am not aware of. This is just another reason why I'm tending to spend less and less time on forums such as these. Too many ego games going on and on. I'll still tell you and everyone else, when I refer to God, I am talking about the Highest of the High, the Creator and Source of All That Is, the Supreme Spirit. I could go into all the sources and meanings of the various labels I just listed here, but why bother? They're only labels or names and don't come anywhere close to describing the reality they attempt at representing. Or maybe we could refer to Om or Aom? Is that more to your liking? Do you understand why I use those terms? We could follow this up with more ego battles by you listing your background knowledge from books and I do the same and off we go on some intellectual tirade.

I would suggest before you ever tell anyone on here they know nothing of God or about God to at least know a little about whom you speak first. Even then, no one can ever legitimately tell anyone else they know nothing of God. And really, these discussions and arguments about what word to use for God is pettiness. So go ahead now, boost up that ego some more and put me in my place! Oh wait a second, do you know me? Intellectual discussions about God ultimately become exercises in futility anyways. How about we all just focus on personal experience from now on?

[Finefeather]

Posted by Youniverse (here)
How about we all just focus on personal experience from now on?

I agree.
with Love
Ray

[Nanoo Nanoo]

Posted by Finefeather (here)
I agree with you...The planet Venus is the home of an advanced race who live in etheric bodies...they have been in contact with us during the early stages of human existence. As a collective they are called Lucifer...the bringers of light.
From an astronomical view we see Venus rising and falling at sunrise and sunset at different times of the year. Lucifer are the good guys and we have been tricked into believing that Lucifer is Satan...to keep our minds in the dark...as usual.

Satan is the collective state of the Dark Lodge who are responsible for involution. Some other names for them are Archons, Illuminati etc.
They have 3 main levels in their hierarchy:
1. The Lords of Darkness or sometimes called Cosmic Black Magicians...these are the top dogs.
2. The band of Black Magicians in the astral planes who influence anyone negatively, when and wherever the opportunity arises, both in the astral plane and on the physical plane...nasty bunch. Their main aim is to slow down evolutionary growth of consciousness. Most of them have broken the link between their 2nd Self ('Higher Self')(Causal Envelope) and the first Self...which is what we are all currently termed whilst in the reincarnation cycle. This is the story of the 'soulless' ones we hear about.
3. The Illuminati on the physical plane who fight for power and control of the earth. Most of those who we think are top bad guys on earth are merely puppets for the higher order. There are no Lords of Darkness on the earth plane, because they are not able to incarnate into bodies because they do not have a causal envelope.

They are well organised and more powerful than many believe.

However they do...believe it or not...play a role on this planet. They do not exist anywhere else in the cosmos.

Take care now and don't forget to check under your bed tonight

Love you all
Ray

kapow ! max respect to the fine feather !

nice post and exceptionally accurate.

Naniu

[Prodigal Son]

Posted by Finefeather (here)

Posted by Youniverse (here)
How about we all just focus on personal experience from now on?

I agree.
with Love
Ray

Perhaps a new thread, called "Who or What is God" would be productive here. With the minds we have on this forum, it oughta be very interesting.

The idea would be to determine what the "Source" is and if it is compatible with, oh, lets say, the God of Abraham.

"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things." ~ Isaiah 45:7 (KJV)

I can tell you all right now, the "Absolute Source" is pure Love and Light, and without some help, it CANNOT create darkness.

But Biblegod certainly can!

It might even shed some more light on who this Lucifer character is.

Who wants to start it?

If no one does by the end of the day, I will.

Cheers!

[Youniverse]

Posted by Nanoo Nanoo (here)

Posted by Finefeather (here)
I agree with you...The planet Venus is the home of an advanced race who live in etheric bodies...they have been in contact with us during the early stages of human existence. As a collective they are called Lucifer...the bringers of light.
From an astronomical view we see Venus rising and falling at sunrise and sunset at different times of the year. Lucifer are the good guys and we have been tricked into believing that Lucifer is Satan...to keep our minds in the dark...as usual.

Satan is the collective state of the Dark Lodge who are responsible for involution. Some other names for them are Archons, Illuminati etc.
They have 3 main levels in their hierarchy:
1. The Lords of Darkness or sometimes called Cosmic Black Magicians...these are the top dogs.
2. The band of Black Magicians in the astral planes who influence anyone negatively, when and wherever the opportunity arises, both in the astral plane and on the physical plane...nasty bunch. Their main aim is to slow down evolutionary growth of consciousness. Most of them have broken the link between their 2nd Self ('Higher Self')(Causal Envelope) and the first Self...which is what we are all currently termed whilst in the reincarnation cycle. This is the story of the 'soulless' ones we hear about.
3. The Illuminati on the physical plane who fight for power and control of the earth. Most of those who we think are top bad guys on earth are merely puppets for the higher order. There are no Lords of Darkness on the earth plane, because they are not able to incarnate into bodies because they do not have a causal envelope.

They are well organised and more powerful than many believe.

However they do...believe it or not...play a role on this planet. They do not exist anywhere else in the cosmos.

Take care now and don't forget to check under your bed tonight

Love you all
Ray

kapow ! max respect to the fine feather !

nice post and exceptionally accurate.

Naniu

What Finefeather says here is entirely possible IMO. There is the whole story of Dr. Frank Stranges and Valiant Thor(from Venus apparently) that we might combine with this account of Lucifer and the "dark forces" that Valiant Thor often spoke of. To say that the dark lords or dark forces have as their main interest, the goal of preventing humanity from evolving into higher consciousness is entirely plausible. This premise is submitted by Lord Krishna in the Bhagavad Gita as he explains maya or mara as that aspect of the outward flow of creation(Aom or Om) that desires further and further descent into materiality rather than ascent to spirit. This is one of the very forces of creation, a mechanism in a sense, that can and usually does keep man locked into identification with ego and materiality. This is what satan is according to that spiritual tradition.

[Youniverse]

Posted by Prodigal Son (here)

Posted by Finefeather (here)

Posted by Youniverse (here)
How about we all just focus on personal experience from now on?

I agree.
with Love
Ray

Perhaps a new thread, called "Who or What is God" would be productive here. With the minds we have on this forum, it oughta be very interesting.

The idea would be to determine what the "Source" is and if it is compatible with, oh, lets say, the God of Abraham.

"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things." ~ Isaiah 45:7 (KJV)

I can tell you all right now, the "Absolute Source" is pure Love and Light, and without some help, it CANNOT create darkness.

But Biblegod certainly can!

It might even shed some more light on who this Lucifer character is.

Who wants to start it?

If no one does by the end of the day, I will.

Cheers!

As I said earlier, such discussions on who/what God is are usually futile because each individual involved usually focusses on a particular aspect of God(which is what they do in most religious traditions) and then tries to minimalize or outright deny the aspect the other chooses to focus on. When we speak about Universal Laws of Creation, we are emphasizing those laws as that aspect of God that governs the universe. As far as most of us know so far, those so-called Laws of the Universe only apply to the physical realm. What of the astral or causal planes of existence? At any rate, (forgive me Finefeather if I'm picking on you) those are just laws and not the same as the One that set those laws(or their potentiality) in motion. As soon as we have an intellectual discussion about God or the nature of God, we are placing an aspect of the infinite in a little box called a concept and holding it up as if it represents God. We in fact do that with our ego and body or the false self and say this is who I am. In Sanaten Dharma, the ancient religion of India, the word "sat" is applied to the term of anything that is the greatest or most magnificent in reference to basically anything. So according to that tradition, God is more accurately displayed by whatever is the highest in anything one talks about. Yet that is still only referring to an aspect of God.

[Chester]

Posted by Eram (here)

Posted by Freed Fox (here)
Thanks for your effort, Eram, but the senseless bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were not the actions of any true 'force of good'. Though we did stop the axis... I suppose we were the lesser of two evils, no?

How I interpreted the text was that the author was not claiming that Germany, Italy and Japan were the Dark and the USA and Allies were Light in absolute terms at all.
The Dark lodge basically runs the planet since they kicked the Forces of the planetary hierarchy of this planet back in Atlantis.
Humans are under the influences of the forces of dark and light all the time and sometimes Dark wins and sometimes light.
(It takes an extremely trained pupil of the esoteric knowledge to become a all time dark or all time light person.)

That the Allied forces won from the Nazis doesn't day that the Allied forces are "good" or "light".
That's not how I read it.
All it said that an attempt of the Dark forces (working through all of us, also the USA) to get full control of the world an maybe get humans to extinct itself was made harmless.

Perhaps if we step back from "sides" such as "dark and light" and instead consider the dynamic that scenario presents - the us/them constant conflict - a situation where no two people ever fully agree as to who exactly is us and who exactly is them (as these things constantly change within the minds of those who make such labels) and instead see the us/them dynamic to be the actual "dark" (if we consider dark as ignorance) and that understanding is the light then we might be able to take the leap that some Gnostics have taken - that they are tapped into the "ring of light" which Luciferians I know believe they are a part of.

It has nothing to do with choosing the philosophies towards life which are emulated within the various branches of Satanism.

How I have had success regarding the Archons is that I see them as an aspect of myself and then I take my positions and hold them up through my intentional thoughts, words (written and spoken) and actions and allow what comes forth from the dynamic to be viewed (with hindsight) as "the judgement" (if there actually be any from any 4th party observer). This eliminates the "war within."

Note, a very important aspect to my above statement and that is that I stated "intentional thoughts." Why I am pointing that out is because I have realized I have two types of thoughts - implanted thoughts and then my own thoughts. This discovery has made a massive difference in my life because I no longer judge myself based on any of the negative thoughts that pop into my head as I know there is the possibility those thoughts are not from me.

Yet now, what I then do based on those thoughts which simply pop into my head... - the thoughts I come forth with I see as 100% my own responsibility and those thoughts are what I call my intentional thoughts.

Please, understand, I am not perfect in doing what I stated above, but for the most part I actually follow this protocol rather consistently. It should also be noted that I developed this protocol to a great extent after I began participating in discussions on this forum 1.5 years ago.

[Finefeather]

Posted by justoneman (here)
Note, a very important aspect to my above statement and that is that I stated "intentional thoughts." Why I am pointing that out is because I have realized I have two types of thoughts - implanted thoughts and then my own thoughts. This discovery has made a massive difference in my life because I no longer judge myself based on any of the negative thoughts that pop into my head as I know there is the possibility those thoughts are not from me. What I then do with those thoughts - even the thoughts I come forth with are 100% my own responsibility and those thoughts are what I call my intentional thoughts.

Hi dear Chester
This is a very important statement you make here...thanks
Whether the thoughts are 'implanted' or our own is quite difficult to determine because we all have some old past bad attitudes drifting around in our minds.
So we should be wary of thinking that all 'bad' thought is 'implanted' when it is actually our own dark side rearing it's head...which needs attention...if we brush these aside they will be back for sure.

With Love
Ray

[Chester]

Posted by Finefeather (here)

Posted by justoneman (here)
Note, a very important aspect to my above statement and that is that I stated "intentional thoughts." Why I am pointing that out is because I have realized I have two types of thoughts - implanted thoughts and then my own thoughts. This discovery has made a massive difference in my life because I no longer judge myself based on any of the negative thoughts that pop into my head as I know there is the possibility those thoughts are not from me. What I then do with those thoughts - even the thoughts I come forth with are 100% my own responsibility and those thoughts are what I call my intentional thoughts.

Hi dear Chester
This is a very important statement you make here...thanks
Whether the thoughts are 'implanted' or our own is quite difficult to determine because we all have some old past bad attitudes drifting around in our minds.
So we should be wary of thinking that all 'bad' thought is 'implanted' when it is actually our own dark side rearing it's head...which needs attention...if we brush these aside they will be back for sure.

With Love
Ray

It is not simply our own dark thoughts. There are third parties at various levels of existence which have mind hacking technology. Some are fellow humans. This is well documented and little dispute of this fact can still be found in our "open minded" community.

A gentleman named Robert Dunkan has written a few detailed books documenting the "human" development of these technologies -

Project: Soul Catcher is highly recommended to those who may desire to get up to speed.

I, personally, have experienced this for years. The difference between myself and most others who have had this experience is based on the adoption of an attitude of gratitude as well as rigorous implementation of the simple process I outlined a few posts above.

Here is a gentleman who has had a difficult time with being targeted for mind hacking -

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=xYrHc9o65RA

If I could speak with Sam Jenkins, I would do my best to share with him how I was able to emerge from the state of mind he appears to still be in which can only be characterized by being "wholly consumed."

One's soul is still one's soul (just my opinion).

[Anchor]

Chester,

I think I know what you mean about intentional thoughts and the other kind.

I very much like what finefeather just said:

Posted by Finefeather (here)
Whether the thoughts are 'implanted' or our own is quite difficult to determine because we all have some old past bad attitudes drifting around in our minds.
So we should be wary of thinking that all 'bad' thought is 'implanted' when it is actually our own dark side rearing it's head...which needs attention...if we brush these aside they will be back for sure.

I would like to try another way of saying what I think is essentially the same kind of idea with a little extra comment:

Thoughts that come to us and which we hold on to are like kites on a string, we can if we wish let them go and silently observe their passing - in this way they leave our "reality" without changing it.

It doesn't matter if the thoughts are created by us, or something trickier. Each serves a purpose and provides an opportunity/learning catalyst of some sort. If you don't want to be "impressed" by the tricky ones causing thoughts to appear in your spectrum, simply don't give them any of the needed mental material to work with, or more practically, reduce it by cleaning house insofar as one can.

All is thought, so control of thought is control of our manifest "reality" (illusion).

The (discarnate) dark brothers need us incarnate ones for this, they are not good enough to be able to manifest the kinds of change they want directly, so they try to trick us into doing it for them. Their bag of tools is huge, but each has a common element - us and our shadow sides!

Lots of countermeasures available. All variations on a basic theme; all related to high things such as beauty, purity, love, light and faith.

[Chester]

Posted by Anchor (here)
Chester,

I think I know what you mean about intentional thoughts and the other kind.

I very much like what finefeather just said:

Posted by Finefeather (here)
Whether the thoughts are 'implanted' or our own is quite difficult to determine because we all have some old past bad attitudes drifting around in our minds.
So we should be wary of thinking that all 'bad' thought is 'implanted' when it is actually our own dark side rearing it's head...which needs attention...if we brush these aside they will be back for sure.

I would like to try another way of saying what I think is essentially the same kind of idea with a little extra comment:

Thoughts that come to us and which we hold on to are like kites on a string, we can if we wish let them go and silently observe their passing - in this way they leave our "reality" without changing it.

It doesn't matter if the thoughts are created by us, or something trickier. Each serves a purpose and provides an opportunity/learning catalyst of some sort. If you don't want to be "impressed" by the tricky ones causing thoughts to appear in your spectrum, simply don't give them any of the needed mental material to work with, or more practically, reduce it by cleaning house insofar as one can.

All is thought, so control of thought is control of our manifest "reality" (illusion).

The (discarnate) dark brothers need us incarnate ones for this, they are not good enough to be able to manifest the kinds of change they want directly, so they try to trick us into doing it for them. Their bag of tools is huge, but each has a common element - us and our shadow sides!

Lots of countermeasures available. All variations on a theme. All related to high things such as beauty, purity, love, light and faith.

Great Post - I would keep an open mind as to the multi-level nature of this phenomena. In particular that the technology may be employed by fellow humans, by unknown, terrestrial beings, by extra-terrestrial beings and by other dimensional beings (both terrestrial such as the Djinn and non terrestrial).

Each of these groups have developed different aspects of this technology and I have found the ability to unravel my confusions by understanding the probability (my opinion) of this possibility - all again based on my own experience as well as the various testimonies, some found on threads here in Avalon, from quite level headed folk such as Daughter of Time and Limor just to name a few.

If we consider this possibility (as opposed to concluding for everyone) that the thoughts are only from some dark part within ourselves when viewing the situation from an inner level, it allows one the ability to rest within their soul such that these technologies have little overall negative influence.

From the grandest of perspectives, I see this as all within me but also, from that perspective "I am God" which is not exactly the best viewpoint to come forth with when involved in relationship with others unless you are able to simultaneously see others as the same, I take responsibility.

[Anchor]

Posted by justoneman (here)
Great Post - I would keep an open mind as to the multi-level nature of this phenomena. In particular that the technology may be employed by fellow humans, by unknown, terrestrial beings, by extra-terrestrial beings and by other dimensional beings (both terrestrial such as the Djinn and non terrestrial).

I do. I do also concur with finefeather's depiction of that multi-level heirarchy earlier in this thread. Fellow humans can employ tools - of course they can, even naughty ones like mind control devices (not corroborating this as I have no experience of it, but I read a lot of testimony and stories) but hypothetically it fits my world view that such things can exist.

The human chess pieces in the game, are necessary for the game to be played. The trump card is that some of the chess pieces are starting to figure out that they are capable of being the rules of the game and changing the game.

If I may re-quote one of my favorite bits of the law of one. "Let us for a moment consider thought. What is it, my friends, to take thought? Took you then thought today? What thoughts did you think today? What thoughts were part of the original thought today? In how many of your thoughts did the creation abide? Was love contained? And was service freely given? You are not part of a material universe. You are part of a thought. You are dancing in a ballroom in which there is no material. You are dancing thoughts. You move your body, your mind, and your spirit in somewhat eccentric patterns for you have not completely grasped the concept that you are part of the original thought."

We have not completely grasped it, but we are in the process of awakening to the possibility are we not?

[Chester]

Posted by Finefeather (here)

Posted by justoneman (here)
Note, a very important aspect to my above statement and that is that I stated "intentional thoughts." Why I am pointing that out is because I have realized I have two types of thoughts - implanted thoughts and then my own thoughts. This discovery has made a massive difference in my life because I no longer judge myself based on any of the negative thoughts that pop into my head as I know there is the possibility those thoughts are not from me. What I then do with those thoughts - even the thoughts I come forth with are 100% my own responsibility and those thoughts are what I call my intentional thoughts.

Hi dear Chester
This is a very important statement you make here...thanks
Whether the thoughts are 'implanted' or our own is quite difficult to determine because we all have some old past bad attitudes drifting around in our minds.
So we should be wary of thinking that all 'bad' thought is 'implanted' when it is actually our own dark side rearing it's head...which needs attention...if we brush these aside they will be back for sure.

With Love
Ray

And so as to see the agreement we may have as to our view here - It appears you saw the key point I hoped to make - and that is... that we cannot for certain know if the thoughts are our own or from one or more third parties.

And the point I am taking from you, which to me rings very, very true (at least I want it to be true) is that if one can reach a reasonably constant state of mind where one's past "negative" thoughts/lives/experiences are still present in the present, then perhaps those who attempt to implant thoughts may achieve little or perhaps even no success.

I will add though that its my view that folks such as Sam Jenkins appear to fight as opposed to what you are suggesting, which I see as "transcending those old ideas" and its my opinion that is why "they" focus upon him so heavily. Still, I am simply speculating and surely cannot know the truth of or for another. I do know I feel very bad for Sam Jenkins.

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As difficult as this seems to be for me - I feel finefeather and Anchor and justoneman share a great deal of the same view at this moment.

[Anchor]

Posted by justoneman (here)
]As difficult as this seems to be for me.

Well my friend, as always when there is mental tension, one may elect to relax into the silence for a moment - even as short as a leisurely breath.

As we, by INTENT, decide to seek the silence, we may let go of the kite strings binding all the thoughts to us which are jostling for attention - confident that they will return if necessary.

Much light to you.

John..