The Human Carnivore Myth

[Carmen]

Dear God, protect me from fanatism, in myself or others, in whatever guise it comes in.

[The One]

Posted by ROMANWKT (here)

Posted by The One (here)
We are all going to the same place

Dont matter what ya eat enjoy what suits you best.Also if you get someone trying to brainwash you just follow your own path and leave a trail.You will not get to a higher existence for being one or the other and if someone tells you otherwise they are talking complete BS.

Cheers

Well my friend, you obviously had not listened to anything people have said here, please explain to everybody how you came to this most enlighten conclusion????

Regards

roman

You would be quite surprised Roman what i have listened to.The do's the donts,go this way go that way,eat this eat that.This belief that belief.Just look within yourself and everything becomes a bit more clearer.

Cheers

[Abhaya]

Posted by Carmen (here)
Dear God, protect me from fanatism, in myself or others, in whatever guise it comes in.

Well if pointing out which today's society chooses to ignor through mass apathy makes me a fanatic then that's alright I suppose .

Any way seems like the only alternative views at this point are dismissive apathy like above. Or we are all one and all going to the same place so it doesn't matter have a party logic.

I know most people will probably just read this stuff and take offense. But if even one person reads it with an open mind. And better realizes what and who our animal friends really are. Consciousness same as us, then that will be great

[Limor Wolf]

I know that just a video with no words of my own are not much addition for this thread, but This video really speaks for itself

Sometimes our simple emotions speaks volume

Please allow yourself six minutes to check how you feel


Source: Watch on Vimeo

[Abhaya]

Posted by DeDukshyn (here)

Posted by Abhaya (here)

Posted by DeDukshyn (here)
Anyone caught up in the "carni" vs "vegi" way needs to look at their own life, because obviously the neglect of looking after their own minds has freed up too much time that is being used by judging and condemning others.

That said, the thread title gave me a good smile when I saw it (after seeing the other one), thanks Roman -- for balance..

I think that no one is judging anyone in particular. It is more a debate about a current pattern of society, that some choose to take personally.

The begginning of the earthlings movie makes very clear the ultimate message it's trying to convey. As humanity has made steps towards a higher spiritual awareness, in this dense current reality we live in, we have made strides with our ability to see the consscienceness in one another. That thing that unites us all ultimately as family and as equals. First women, then racism, more recently homosexuality, all these previously held ignorances have been seen through. One of the next steps we need to take is to see through speciesism. animals are put in concentration camps worse then any thing man has been subjected to. (And I dare anyone to watch that movie and tell me different.) yet we turn a blind eye and eat from its spoils. And frankly killing it in your back yard is only a lesser of two evils.

People would have thought it equally crazy and self righteous, if you were to say that black people didn't deserve to be slaves and women weren't only supposed to stay in the kitchen to make dinner before civil war times. Well guess what animals don't deserve to be our food either!

Taking the time to think about, what all the other beings that share this reality with us are, is not a waste of time. It is however the greatest laziness to decide it isn't worth thinking about. We eat every day, so this is a major thing both for us individualy and in regards to our individual effect on everything we eat.


We are a thinking being. It is natural to say that in making any progression we need to become less violent. We don't need to kill these creatures to live. How how how can you justify your eating them?? There is just no excuse..... I'm sorry. You owe it to these other beings in fact to take time to really think about this. Watch that movie and see if you can rationalize then.

This is less an attack on you and more a defence for the animals we choose to see as less then living beings. They are our brothers here in this reality and you owe it to them to be as little violent towards them as you can.

Is this all just trivial fact, meant to meaninglessly devide us? Or is this a chance to try and hear our animal brothers calling for help.

Where focus is, on this topic, division will come. Though, you do have some good insights

Thanks. I don't think this thread will cause too much division. People have been ignoring these facts for decades. Those who are not ready to admit will no doubt go the same route. Might be some people at odds with myself. But that's alright I don't think any one less a person for eating meat. Just feel obliged to point out that hey " did u know u don't need to take part in murdering those animal buddies of ours" .

[ROMANWKT]

I really don't know what's the matter with everybody, we have been here long enough to know that we reside in mind illusion which we all call matrix, we in point of fact speak this reality into existence, it's a mind job. The God that we talk about, the creator, the intelligence, behaves like a computer program which has rules that are unchangeable and impersonal, this intelligence acts as a gigantic mirror and puts out what we put in collectively, and collectively is the key understanding.

The whole existence is based on consciousness, and consciousness is all there is, all that you see around you and beneath you is consciousness. All this consciousness is going through a process of evolution, all consciousness is one and the same, it's all one consciousness.

When we hurt another human being we hurt ourselves, when we murder rape and pillage, we hurt ourselves, when we have a sick society that has lost its way that don't understand the universal rules, the universal law, it would be then proclaimed as pure and utter chaos.

All these events would be mirrored by the universal intelligence right back where it came from, to us as a collective. When we interfere or destroy any life force with intent on its path of its evolutionary process, that deed would be mirrored back to us all collectively.

We all need to really look around us and all around the world and understand the darkness that has evolved to fear ridden selfish cruel world, that is escalating to irreversible proportions, all being mirrored back at us collectively and escalating, the morphic field that surrounds us all, is dark.

Unless we all wake up, heed and understand this truth, there really is no return, other than total destruction of its inhabitants on this plane, and as before the intelligence will deal in its own catastrophic way.

The two most important understanding by an initiate, and these two understandings were absolutely crucial before any teachings were disclosed to them, firstly thou shall not kill, and secondly an absolute understanding of solipsism, meaning any ignorance off, that the law exits.

I therefore ask you all who are interested please listen to these recordings as these understandings are crucial to our continuation on this planet. We cannot keep doing what we are doing, and get away with it, its an agenda that we must, yes must, all understand.

Warmest regards to all

Roman.

[Abhaya]

Limor;716266]I know that just a video with no words of my own are not much addition for this thread, but This video really speaks for itself

Sometimes our simple emotions speaks volume

Please allow yourself six minutes to check how you [I]feel[/I

=]

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=z4ADdpLxOYo

For those of you with iPads like me this video might not have shown up so here ya go. Only 6 minutes. Amazing short film. Just see how society treats them as soulless items. holocost is still happening every day

[DeDukshyn]

Posted by Abhaya (here)

Posted by DeDukshyn (here)

Posted by Abhaya (here)

Posted by DeDukshyn (here)
Anyone caught up in the "carni" vs "vegi" way needs to look at their own life, because obviously the neglect of looking after their own minds has freed up too much time that is being used by judging and condemning others.

That said, the thread title gave me a good smile when I saw it (after seeing the other one), thanks Roman -- for balance..

I think that no one is judging anyone in particular. It is more a debate about a current pattern of society, that some choose to take personally.

The begginning of the earthlings movie makes very clear the ultimate message it's trying to convey. As humanity has made steps towards a higher spiritual awareness, in this dense current reality we live in, we have made strides with our ability to see the consscienceness in one another. That thing that unites us all ultimately as family and as equals. First women, then racism, more recently homosexuality, all these previously held ignorances have been seen through. One of the next steps we need to take is to see through speciesism. animals are put in concentration camps worse then any thing man has been subjected to. (And I dare anyone to watch that movie and tell me different.) yet we turn a blind eye and eat from its spoils. And frankly killing it in your back yard is only a lesser of two evils.

People would have thought it equally crazy and self righteous, if you were to say that black people didn't deserve to be slaves and women weren't only supposed to stay in the kitchen to make dinner before civil war times. Well guess what animals don't deserve to be our food either!

Taking the time to think about, what all the other beings that share this reality with us are, is not a waste of time. It is however the greatest laziness to decide it isn't worth thinking about. We eat every day, so this is a major thing both for us individualy and in regards to our individual effect on everything we eat.


We are a thinking being. It is natural to say that in making any progression we need to become less violent. We don't need to kill these creatures to live. How how how can you justify your eating them?? There is just no excuse..... I'm sorry. You owe it to these other beings in fact to take time to really think about this. Watch that movie and see if you can rationalize then.

This is less an attack on you and more a defence for the animals we choose to see as less then living beings. They are our brothers here in this reality and you owe it to them to be as little violent towards them as you can.

Is this all just trivial fact, meant to meaninglessly devide us? Or is this a chance to try and hear our animal brothers calling for help.

Where focus is, on this topic, division will come. Though, you do have some good insights

Thanks. I don't think this thread will cause too much division. People have been ignoring these facts for decades. Those who are not ready to admit will no doubt go the same route. Might be some people at odds with myself. But that's alright I don't think any one less a person for eating meat. Just feel obliged to point out that hey " did u know u don't need to take part in murdering those animal buddies of ours" .

Valid point of view for sure ... we have been into it before if you don't recall. As long as we all know the options and implications, there's not much else to preach. I believe if we all tasked each meat eater to do their own killing and butchering process, that the overall consensus diet might change dramatically -- the fact we get "served" meat is different from having to eat meat.. My belief is similar to the indigenous people that could not survive without meat eating --- old school Canadian natives (8 months of winter doesn't allow a lot of veggies). Yet their practice of meat eating included asking for an individual sacrifice, of a mother earth being, the thanks for that sacrifice, the process needed to eat the animal, etc. -- far different than western style meat addictions ...

Western meat eating is an abhorrence ... My opinion ... but judging others is and always will be a greater sin ... almost a catch22 in itself

[Abhaya]

Posted by DeDukshyn (here)

Posted by Abhaya (here)

Posted by DeDukshyn (here)

Posted by Abhaya (here)

Posted by DeDukshyn (here)
Anyone caught up in the "carni" vs "vegi" way needs to look at their own life, because obviously the neglect of looking after their own minds has freed up too much time that is being used by judging and condemning others.

That said, the thread title gave me a good smile when I saw it (after seeing the other one), thanks Roman -- for balance..

I think that no one is judging anyone in particular. It is more a debate about a current pattern of society, that some choose to take personally.

The begginning of the earthlings movie makes very clear the ultimate message it's trying to convey. As humanity has made steps towards a higher spiritual awareness, in this dense current reality we live in, we have made strides with our ability to see the consscienceness in one another. That thing that unites us all ultimately as family and as equals. First women, then racism, more recently homosexuality, all these previously held ignorances have been seen through. One of the next steps we need to take is to see through speciesism. animals are put in concentration camps worse then any thing man has been subjected to. (And I dare anyone to watch that movie and tell me different.) yet we turn a blind eye and eat from its spoils. And frankly killing it in your back yard is only a lesser of two evils.

People would have thought it equally crazy and self righteous, if you were to say that black people didn't deserve to be slaves and women weren't only supposed to stay in the kitchen to make dinner before civil war times. Well guess what animals don't deserve to be our food either!

Taking the time to think about, what all the other beings that share this reality with us are, is not a waste of time. It is however the greatest laziness to decide it isn't worth thinking about. We eat every day, so this is a major thing both for us individualy and in regards to our individual effect on everything we eat.


We are a thinking being. It is natural to say that in making any progression we need to become less violent. We don't need to kill these creatures to live. How how how can you justify your eating them?? There is just no excuse..... I'm sorry. You owe it to these other beings in fact to take time to really think about this. Watch that movie and see if you can rationalize then.

This is less an attack on you and more a defence for the animals we choose to see as less then living beings. They are our brothers here in this reality and you owe it to them to be as little violent towards them as you can.

Is this all just trivial fact, meant to meaninglessly devide us? Or is this a chance to try and hear our animal brothers calling for help.

Where focus is, on this topic, division will come. Though, you do have some good insights

Thanks. I don't think this thread will cause too much division. People have been ignoring these facts for decades. Those who are not ready to admit will no doubt go the same route. Might be some people at odds with myself. But that's alright I don't think any one less a person for eating meat. Just feel obliged to point out that hey " did u know u don't need to take part in murdering those animal buddies of ours" .

Valid point of view for sure ... we have been into it before if you don't recall. As long as we all know the options and implications, there's not much else to preach. I believe if we all tasked each meat eater to do their own killing and butchering process, that the overall consensus diet might change dramatically -- the fact we get "served" meat is different from having to eat meat.. My belief is similar to the indigenous people that could not survive without meat eating --- old school Canadian natives (8 months of winter doesn't allow a lot of veggies). Yet their practice of meat eating included asking for an individual sacrifice, of a mother earth being, the thanks for that sacrifice, the process needed to eat the animal, etc. -- far different than western style meat addictions ...

Western meat eating is an abhorrence ... My opinion ... but judging others is and always will be a greater sin ... almost a catch22 in itself

I have stated several times, that the idea everyone would hopefully agree on, is that we should be as little violent as possible, if someone is living in an extreme situation where they are in the Canadian tundra, then their options for being less violent will differ from the average joe with a whole food shop around the corner. The problem with this is that some people use the fact that there are some situations where it seems reasonable to eat meat as an excuse for them to eat what ever they want. There will never be a valid excuse to eat a Big Mac... Sorry .

Also I'm sorry if you feel judged but frankly this thread is not about you nor any other individual. This is about a pattern in society that hurts people and animals alike. It negatively effects our reality. How ever ultimately no one is more or less evil or wrong then any one else. We are all potentially perfect beings, (including the animals, so stop chewing on them ). We are all under verying degrees of illusion in this dense reality. And we owe it to one another to point out tunnels of light through the fog when we see them. That's the way I see it any way.

If you were so illusioned that for example you didn't know how to open a door and thus kept running into the glass over and over again. And we're causing issues in other people's lives by not letting them into the building (not as extreme as killing and eating them) Would you get mad if I told you how to open it and explained that it wasn't good for your face to repeatedly bash it into the glass?

[ROMANWKT]

We would not believe that an agenda of the dark forces on this planet who would lie and pervert truth, as to humanity building its own prison planet by the slaughter of humanity and animals on this planet, think again. everything is going perfectly according to their plans for us all.

regards

roman

[ROMANWKT]

when one day you will all realize that this planet has been run by Dark Occultist, and they control everything, and I mean everything, for thousands of years, you have to dig deep, and you will find that that is so. by the time we all come to this conclusion, the new generation will take over fulfilling the darkness for them, and so it goes on and on, the signs are that we are to late, the problem getting people to understand this in here on this website shows the impossibility of understanding outside of here.

Regards

roman

[ROMANWKT]

Well it looks that nobody as yet has listened to the recording, but many view even so.

Thank for participating

Regards

roman

[Fred Steeves]

You know, I've always thought that Jesus guy was really onto something when he observed the following:


"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye, and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?"

[CD7]

Posted by ROMANWKT (here)
when one day you will all realize that this planet has been run by Dark Occultist, and they control everything, and I mean everything, for thousands of years, you have to dig deep, and you will find that that is so. by the time we all come to this conclusion, the new generation will take over fulfilling the darkness for them, and so it goes on and on, the signs are that we are to late, the problem getting people to understand this in here on this website shows the impossibility of understanding outside of here.

Regards

roman

Roman roman why so gloomy? There are MANY who realize what you are saying and have for a long time...just because they are NOT highlighted on the 6 oclock news does not mean it is not occurring....it is happening bit by bit....all gathering until at some point the avalanche will have no other option but to break free and come tumbling down and then the poor 6 oclock news will have no mouthpiece

[CD7]

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v...type=2&theater



OK here is a video that probably most around the globe have no idea about as KIDNAPPING was on the main stage for the 6 oclock news and not people gathering in a human chain for CHANGE.....SO this may not be about eating the creatures BUT it is about trying to protect their livelihood! I participated in this and the feeling was really great as each little human made a chain from stuart to Jensen beach to become ONE big human.....so peeps out there remember these stories are happening out there

[HORIZONS]

Posted by Abhaya (here)

Limor;716266]I know that just a video with no words of my own are not much addition for this thread, but This video really speaks for itself

Sometimes our simple emotions speaks volume

Please allow yourself six minutes to check how you [I]feel[/I

=]

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=z4ADdpLxOYo

For those of you with iPads like me this video might not have shown up so here ya go. Only 6 minutes. Amazing short film. Just see how society treats them as soulless items. holocost is still happening every day

After seeing this all I could think of is how consumerism is driving ALL industry in these mad directions that we see displayed in this video. Most people do not eat for nutritional sake, but rather to consume.

[Abhaya]

Posted by Fred Steeves (here)
You know, I've always thought that Jesus guy was really onto something when he observed the following:


"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye, and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?"

Then there is the guy who thinks its a personal dig when it's pointed out that the world is on fire and we are all shoving each other in the flames.

[Finefeather]

Roman I did listen to the first audio and I actually even watched the video presentation by Dr Melanie Joy on 'Carnism' on YouTube...which was suggested.

I came away from this experience and needed to compose myself first...it was for me quite an emotional journey...before I might come to a decision which I would regret later. So I left it for a day and here are my thoughts on this:

Moralism is to me an abomination because it always stems from hypocrisy and ignorance. Like the religious fanatic can turn the weak willed into a source of income, so too can moralism...by the use of repulsive emotional tactic's.

Just 3 quotes I will post because it is pointless preaching to the converted and to those who's very integrity depends on the continuation of a well presented hypothesis.

---------------------------

Science has proved on a number of occasions that plants react to human emotions. So if this is the case what are we doing when we cut the fields of corn...rip the carrots out roots and all from the ground...tear into a beautiful peach with our teeth?

In research which spans more than 100 years, scientists have been documenting botanical adaptability and the amazing similarities that plants have with animals and people. Studies indicate that what meta physicians, psychics, shaman, tribal people and sensitives worldwide have been saying about the plant kingdom for millennia is true: plants are intelligent beings who can communicate with us, and, we can communicate with them.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Do_plants_...on_with_people

-----------------------------

Here is a short, extensive edit by me for posting, article on People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals, and claims that Jesus was a vegetarian:

It seems the People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA) have launched a campaign to claim that Jesus was a vegetarian.
BUT....

The Gospels specifically mention Jesus keeping three Passover feasts in Jerusalem. However, in order to keep the feast, the participants were given roasted lamb, bitter herbs, and unleavened bread to eat (Exodus 12:3-4). The entire lamb had to be eaten during the feast. If there were any leftovers, they had to be burned (Exodus 12:10). If Jesus did not eat the lamb, he would have been violating the Law and could have been accused of sin.

The New Testament records that Jesus did eat the Passover feast, which would include the eating of the roasted lamb (Luke 22:14-15). In fact, before the last Passover meal, Jesus specifically instructs his disciples to prepare the meal, including the lamb, for their observance.

"Then came the first day of Unleavened Bread on which the Passover lamb had to be sacrificed. And Jesus sent Peter and John, saying, "Go and prepare the Passover for us, so that we may eat it."" (Luke 22:7-8)

Not only did Jesus eat lamb, but he also ate fish. "But while they still did not believe for joy, and marveled, He said to them, 'Have you any food here?' So they gave Him a piece of a broiled fish and some honeycomb. And He took it and ate in their presence" (Luke 24:41-43).

I noticed the folks at PETA were careful to avoid saying that Jesus did not eat fish. What is the difference between the consumption of a land animal and a sea animal?

It is true that in the beginning, mankind only ate vegetables (Genesis 1:29-30). However, this was changed when Noah departed the ark.

"Every moving thing that is alive shall be food for you; I give all to you, as I gave the green plant." (Genesis 9:3)

Under the Law of Moses, the eating of various kinds of meat was allowed (Leviticus 11; Deuteronomy 14:3-20). The eating of beef, lamb, various poultry and fish were permissible for any Jew. Jesus' eating of these animals would not violate the Law.

The idea that Jesus and God, the Father, would oppose the killing of animals is hilarious! Did you know that God was the first to kill animals to make clothing for Adam and Eve? (See Genesis 3:21.)

http://lavistachurchofchrist.org/LVa...susEatMeat.htm

----------------------------

Here is an interesting passage from the bible also:

Clean and Unclean Animals
(Leviticus 11:1-47; Acts 10:9-16)
Ye are the children of the LORD your God: ye shall not cut yourselves, nor make any baldness between your eyes for the dead. For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God, and the LORD hath chosen thee to be a peculiar people unto himself, above all the nations that are upon the earth.
Thou shalt not eat any abominable thing. These are the beasts which ye shall eat: the ox, the sheep, and the goat, The hart, and the roebuck, and the fallow deer, and the wild goat, and the pygarg, and the wild ox, and the chamois. And every beast that parteth the hoof, and cleaveth the cleft into two claws, and cheweth the cud among the beasts, that ye shall eat. Nevertheless these ye shall not eat of them that chew the cud, or of them that divide the cloven hoof; as the camel, and the hare, and the coney: for they chew the cud, but divide not the hoof; therefore they are unclean unto you. 8And the swine, because it divideth the hoof, yet cheweth not the cud, it is unclean unto you: ye shall not eat of their flesh, nor touch their dead carcase.
These ye shall eat of all that are in the waters: all that have fins and scales shall ye eat: 10And whatsoever hath not fins and scales ye may not eat; it is unclean unto you.
Of all clean birds ye shall eat. But these are they of which ye shall not eat: the eagle, and the ossifrage, and the ospray, And the glede, and the kite, and the vulture after his kind, And every raven after his kind, And the owl, and the night hawk, and the cuckow, and the hawk after his kind, The little owl, and the great owl, and the swan, And the pelican, and the gier eagle, and the cormorant, And the stork, and the heron after her kind, and the lapwing, and the bat. And every creeping thing that flieth is unclean unto you: they shall not be eaten. But of all clean fowls ye may eat.
Ye shall not eat of any thing that dieth of itself: thou shalt give it unto the stranger that is in thy gates, that he may eat it; or thou mayest sell it unto an alien: for thouart an holy people unto the LORD thy God. Thou shalt not seethe a kid in his mother's milk.

---------------------------------

So I guess it can be quite easy to build up an argument for or against eating meat and this IMO tells me that there is a far more deeper side to this. We can blame all sorts of conspiracies. The bible...true or false...came thousands of years before the mechanical atrocities we see in the meat business...today we still have the same choice...blinded or not by ignorance. The majority of people in the world are IMO not dominating, only the few on the top are. In my small world people certainly do not display any signs of having any moral justification and necessity to kill animals and eat meat...to them it is a source of nourishment...which comes from life as they see it...at this stage in our evolution.

Lastly, I will just repost some of my previous post here to wrap up my opinion of this great dilemma we always seem to find ourselves in.

Posted by Finefeather (here)
When we eat meat we are loading our physical body with animal dense matter...these dense molecules have a lower rate of vibration...but the molecules from the animal kingdom also contain a mental component, which plants do not possess...and this mental consciousness of animals has qualities of a lower order than man...whereas plants, without a mental faculty (they have only an emotional consciousness), do not possess lower order mental consciousness. Plants are thus, for man, a better option because we are not subjected to lower order mental consciousness.

So the paradox is that by eating meat we need to be more consciously developed to overcome the effects of the meat molecule, and those who are more consciously developed know this...and that is why they usually do not eat meat.

Compassion for animals is an emotionally attractive quality, and is certainly a beautiful quality of those who have it, but when considering the deeper aspects of life and our total unity we should never forget that we are all...including plants and animals...here for a purpose[added:a purpose which not everyone is aware of]...and that is to share our resources for the benefit of all to achieve omniscience and omnipotence. Every human was once a plant and an animal also.

Hope this gives some more light on the subject.
Love to all and have a great day.
Ray

[BrianEn]

AS long as you eat healthily it doesn't matter what you eat. I don't dog though coz it's culturaly repulsive to dine upon Fido, but in other places they do. So I eat, meat veg, bread, frozen yogurt and chocolate. I looked at vegetarian dishes in the grocery store....loaded with sodium same as meat processed foods.

[ROMANWKT]

Posted by Fred Steeves (here)
You know, I've always thought that Jesus guy was really onto something when he observed the following:


"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye, and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?"

Well thank you young man, I see your impression of me had not changed since your last abusive private message to me, so your conclusion with these fine words is that I am now a hypocrite, I gladly allow you your opinion of me, and hope you have a nice day now.

Regards as ever Fred

roman